Although i do acknowledge that the garden state punches way above its weight when it comes to political scandals. [indistinct conversations] in 2004, the democratic governor of new jersey, Jim Mcgreevey, stepped into a press room just like this and became an Overnight Sensation when he admitted to a gay affair and resigned in the same speech. A governor coming out of the closet was genuinely shocking, a careerkiller at that time. Looking back, though, i cant help but feel that we were also quick to embrace the headline that we may have forgotten to dig a little deeper, because the reason why Jim Mcgreevey resigned is a lot more complicated than we remember. Ah, new jersey americas communal jacuzzi, or cesspool, depending on who you ask. [glass shatters] a land with its own unique culture and customs and a Political Landscape than can be rather. Shall we say, in your face. Youre done. Its 4 30. Youve maximized your tan. Get off the beach. New jersey is a roughandtumble place, man, you know . Its not for the faint of heart. The politics, the money, the press, the media, the scrutiny, are all larger. I teach new jersey politics, and when i say that to people, they laugh at you, and they say, oh thats gonna be a fun course about corruption. Yes, new jersey has a reputation for corruption being baked into the political process, with some political operatives of the belief that if you dont get your hands dirty, you probably dont want it enough. So when a freshfaced, squeakyclean kid from jersey city named Jim Mcgreevey won the governors office, it seemed too good to be true. So help me god. [cheers and applause] but this was jersey, so. It was. No sooner was he sworn in, and rumors started to circulate about the shady things he had done to get there. [reporters shouting at once] man come on over, governor we always had a perception that Jim Mcgreevey was unable to say no to certain powerful political allies. You have to make some deals with the devils to get the party line, get the party nomination, and mcgreevey, from my vantage point, was more than willing to do it. When it came to mcgreeveys rise in jersey, there were whispers that the devil in question was the Real Estate TycoonCharlie Kushner. Yes, of those kushners. There is speculation that kushner and mcgreevey had a quid pro quo relationship, that kushner was going to become his biggest developer, and he wanted certain things in return. Charlie kushner and the Kushner Family started to pour huge amounts of money into his campaign. These are the kinds of ways that oligarchs like Charlie Kushner develop their power. And then there were rumors that mcgreevey had hired unqualified friends for Key Administration roles. Reporter there were allegations of corruption, extortion, and nepotism in his administration. Tapper rumors of favor trading, backroom deals, and a Campaign FinanceFraud Investigation from u. S. Attorney Chris Christie were all swirling around mcgreevey, when one hot august day in 2004, he called a press conference, but instead of talking about any of that, he dropped this bombshell. So my truth is that. He was gay and having an affair with a man, and he was resigning. With headlines like these, who cares about Government Corruption . Tonight a stunning admission from new jersey governor james mcgreevey. The twicemarried father of two admitted today he had an extramarital affair with another man. It was shocking. Everybody about it was shocking. I remember one of the senior reporters at the paper, she lets out just this instinctive response of a gasp, like. [gasps loudly] mcgreeveys coming out might not seem gaspworthy today, but keep in mind, 2004 was a very different time, and the most prominent gay people that Many Americans knew were fictional characters on a tv show portrayed by actors who themselves were not openly gay. So pop culture and the media latched on to the gay jokes with the maturity of a 13yearold hopped up on pixy sticks. I mean, so the guys a fanook. [laughter] big deal, he had an affair. Every married guys got some action on the side. In this case, in the behind. [laughter] it was inexcusable, inexcusably hot. Oh. Chapter titles in Jim Mcgreeveys book. Politicians who left a bad taste in my mouth. All right, now thats just. [laughter] but heres the thing. There was such a fervor around mcgreeveys coming out that the story of all the political corruption surrounding him got lost. Mcgreevey said he felt forced to resign because he was gay. That, i think, is wrong, and i think that the people who pushed that storyline either dont know the story or dont wanna know the story. People were digging into it, and all that digging stopped when he resigned, not for that, but for being gay. While jim denies it to this day, is it possible that he didnt resign to escape the public circus around his sexuality but to escape an avalanche of other Corruption Allegations headed his way . With the benefit of a little hindsight, Jim Mcgreevey has emerged as someone both aware of and open about how he justified a series of disastrous political choices and how his overpowering ambition led him down a path of public and personal deception that seemed almost destined to implode. Governor, thanks so much for doing this. Oh, its a pleasure. So. Your story is so interesting because you were living a lie, this secret life, how did you justify this to yourself . Was this just, well, this is what gay men have to do, and i just have to pretend to be something else, and lots of other gay men are in politics pretending . Like, whathow uh, you know, i didnt wake up and say, you know, im gonna be deceptive for the sake of deceiving. Im gonna create this whole double ledger. No. I didnt make that decision prior to the gubernatorial campaign. I made it, like, at 7 or 8 years old. I can remember this as if it were yesterday. I go to my local public library, and im pulling out the card catalog looking for the word homosexuality, and it said underneath, see psychiatric illness. Really . And it was just like. [makes whooshing sound]. This thing, at least then in america, called gay, wasnt a good thing. I realized at that point in time that life is gonna be a very painful trajectory if i own this, and you just try to make an accommodation, albeit an unhealthy accommodation. But the irony is, in politics, it was actually a useful tool. Really . Because so much of the american political persona is to craft a narrative. Jim married his first wife, kari schutz, in 1991, and began to craft the false narrative that he knew would help him look the part for the role he really wanted to play. Youre perceived as straight, male, on top of the food chain. Right. And so that actually reconfirms in an unhealthy way thethethe rightness ofof the decision. [cheers and applause] Jim Mcgreevey was a very young, aggressive politician and wanted to be governor for a long time. He had gone to georgetown law school. He was a bright guy, and he also was a very ambitious guy. He was kind of a backslapping kind of guy. He wanted to be liked. He wanted you to like him. Thank you. You made my day. Thank you. I think jim clearly wanted to be governor and would do anything to get that job. Part of it was because i believe in the promise of america. I believe theres this great experiment known as american democracy, and i think i can work well with people. So much of it is also fueled by, you know, ego andand self. But i knew that these were, at that time, two mutually exclusive narratives. Ambition and being gay . Yep. Thatthat could not coexist. Chekhov has this theory about a gunchekhovs gun. Mm. If you introduce a gun in the first act of the play, its gonna go off by the third. Yeah. Yep. Was that gun. Your homosexuality, youryour being gay, or was it your ambition . It was both. It was the intersection of these two inextricable forces. At some point in time, the tragedy comes to a head. Can i get some more coffee . Is that possible . Crew yeah, absolutely. The governor will have some coffee, too. Mcgreevey yeah, yeah. Sitting across from Jim Mcgreevey now, he seems like an affable, easygoing guy, and thats exactly the political persona he cultivated to succeed in the cutthroat arena of jersey politics. By the time he ran for governor, he had been closeted for most of his life. Everyone has some level of accommodation, and for me, you want to run for governor . So you make this decision to be like what it is that america says is the right thing to do so you can flourish. Are you ready to rumble . crowd yeah the power in new jersey is who becomes governor. Reporter . The race for governor between incumbent republican Christine Whitman and the littleknown Democratic State senator, Jim Mcgreevey. Tapper because he was so little known and not independently wealthy, mcgreevey had to rely on his work ethic to get his name out. He didnt stop. Called him the energizer bunny. He just kept going and going. Reporter the governors race is tighter than ever. Tapper but work ethic could only take him so far. He lost his first race for governor by narrow margin. I would like to congratulate our governor, Christine Todd whitman for her reelection victory. [crowd booing] you lost to governor Christine Todd whitman very narrowly27,000 votes. Yes. Notnot that i remember, no. 27,000 votes. Iii actually remember where i was. Tell us about that. I was walking along the fraser river, and, um, i thought to myself, well, you know, what do i do . And there was a moment like, i can break out of this, but i have been too deeply shaped by my own history to, at that point, change the narrative. So jim dug deeper into his lie. After his first marriage ended, rather than arouse suspicion as a bachelor, he pursued his Family Man Image by marrying dina matos, an unsuspecting, pictureperfect political wife. Before long, she was pregnant, and he was running for governor again. I declare my candidacy for governor of the great state of new jersey. Jim was clearly the democratic frontrunner, and frontrunner gets you the county line. It gets you, uh, scares off your opponents. Money. [laughs] frontrunner gets money. Enter Real Estate Tycoon and democratic megadonor Charles Kushner. Bernstein Charlie Kushner is the father of former white house advisor Jared Kushner and a major new jersey real estate developer. It became clear to charlie that people with the power to make things happen were democrats and that he himself could be a kingmaker. Mcgreevey charlie was like a getitdone guy. Tapper so thatthat was an authentic connection that you had with him, you think . Yeah, oh, definitely, without a doubt. And he helped support you . He raised money . Yes. Its expensive to run statewide in new jersey. Its like a 40 million race. Oh, itsyeah. Back then. Yes. Mcgreevey needed someone like kushner to bankroll him, so kushner donated huge sums of money to jims campaign. Thank you. [cheers and applause] at the same time, there are benefits to having a governor in your back pocket. For someone like kushner, having a close relationship, who can grease all sorts of wheels such as contracts, zoning approvals, and tax abatements. Bernstein that is your ticket to power. So Charlie Kushner gave over half a Million Dollars to mcgreeveys campaign efforts. There is a word that can help you out with many ethical issues when it comes to money. That word is no. Kushner didnt just open his pocketbook for Jim Mcgreevey. Charlie would fund educational trips to israel, like the trip where mcgreevey met the man for whom he risked everything. You went to israel on a trip. Yep. And then Rishon Letzion you met golan cipel. Yes. Im traveling throughout israel, and this young person is sitting across from me, and he begins to dissect my campaign. He knows your race. He knows the race as well as i do with arguably better insights. And hes goodlooking and hes articulate. Was it an instant attraction . Yeah. Tapper and then he joined you when you mcgreevey well, he he corresponded during the course of the campaign. This is not an intellectual decision. This is not a head decision. This is a heart decision. But he meanwhile, you married dina. Yeah. In 2000. Youre running for governor in 2001. Yep. All this time, golan is making outreach to you. Well, yeah, and i think he also saw this as an opportunity, an opportunity to get involved in politics. So how cognizant were you that bringing golan cipel from israel to new jersey to be on your staff was. Setting yourself up for what happened . Thats a great question. Iii sincerely dont know the answer to that. You dont know. I dont know the answer. Golan cipel was eager to come to new jersey to join mcgreeveys campaign, but he needed papers to work legally, which would cost jim another favor from Charles Kushner, who had the businesses to sponsor the work visa. Now with all their fates tied together, mcgreevey, cipel, and Kushner Set Out To Win the new jersey governors race at any cost. Jim mcgreevey, the democratic candidate, has been able to spend 1. 7 million so far. Jim mcgreevey has spent about 20 million. I got a figure. Mcgreevey would say, how many fundraisers do we need to do . Ill be there. We have had eight years of failed leadership. Margolin ill speak. Youll pay. Ill collect. It was a welloiled machine, and everybody was working under the impression that this was the gravy train that was coming into station. Reporter Jim Mcgreevey will be the new governor of new jersey. [cheering] [amplified voice] im not anything special, but fundamentally, as i said in this campaign, im a jersey guy. [cheering] tapper in november 2001, Jim Mcgreevey was elected governor, and suddenly the whole world was watching his every move, because just two months earlier, the largest Terrorist Attack in u. S. History had occurred right nearby. Reporter New York City is in shock, and america is under siege. Tapper with terrified new jersey residents watching the horror of 9 11 from across the hudson, people were asking, how will Jim Mcgreevey keep us safe . Mcgreevey became governor just months after 9 11, the most significant Terrorist Attack on the United States in modern memory. Hundreds of new jerseyans and thousands of americans died in a single day, and now Jim Mcgreeveys constituents were demanding that Public Officials keep them safe. The city is now working on a detailed proposal to outline what they think could work. Mcgreevey lacked experience on the subject, so he needed to hire someone as a National Security advisor. He also had a seat to fill on the new York New JerseyPort Authority board, which would decide what to do with ground zero. So whom did he pick for these roles . His lover, golan cipel, and his friend and benefactor, Charles Kushner. Lets take those two bad decisions one at a time. When was it that you actually became intimate with golan . Um. Oof. I dont keep a diary. Im surprised that Jim Mcgreevey didnt remember the date, because according to his autobiography, it was one night when his wife was in the hospital recovering from the birth of their daughter. So the timing of this is interesting. You win election in november 2001. You and golan had your first actual moment as lovers in december 2001. And then a few weeks after youre sworn in, talking to reporters, you mentioned him. Yep. Publicly. Yep. In february 2002, at a meeting with the press defending new hires in Homeland Security, mcgreevey said, we will not skimp on security, and he added that golan cipel was, a Security Advisor from the Israeli Defense forces, probably the best in the world. Not probably. They do the best in the world. You still think he was qualified for that job . He washe wasnt home by the way. [stammers] he wasnt Homeland Security advisor. No, the Homeland Security advisor he was a counselor to you. Counselor, yeah. And it was one of the things in his. Yeah, that was in his portfolio. Homeland Security Advisor, had 20 years in the fbi. But i mean, sobut he you think theres something about being an israeli that does give somebody yeah, but should he been in should he at all been in that portfolio of answers . No. Clearly and unequivocally. But you brought him up. You brought him up in that meeting. You didnt bring up the fbi guy. Yep, yep. You brought up golan. Yep. I wasnti wasnt with the fbi guy. Did you want to be outed . Did you want to be discovered . Yeah. Youyouits probably a mix or components or factors as that decision making, not to practice psychiatry without a license, but at some level, i was doing something there. You know, these are great psych iiyou know, ive gotta get a therapist after having an interview with jake tapper.