I learned thoughts on capitol hill and this close captioning brought to you by feel away, optimum, enhanced calming for cats have your cats springs outside the litter box, fights with other cats were scratches the furniture, they could be telling you theres stressed to help them feel more calm, try feel away. Optimum good evening. Welcome to our continuing special coverage. The trump, new york hush money trial de tens. Prosecutors, but for more alleged gag order violations before the judge. And the Defense Paint paint expected witnesses, Michael Cohen, and currently witness Keith Davidson is the true culprits in this case, not trump davidson, as you know represented Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougal and secure deals for their silence about alleged affairs with trump and the crucial months before the 2016 an election. But any effort to make them the villains and donald trump, the victims countered by prosecutors who played the phone conversation, Michael Cohen secretly recorded and cnn exclusively obtained featuring donald trump taking an active role in the Karen Mcdougal deal hi need to open up a company for the transfer of Water Back Info regarding our friend david yeah. So im going to do that right away. Id actually come up. I stopped me and ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with the funding yes and its all the stuff. All the stuff because here is you never know when that Company Never know where hes going to be getting correct. So im im all over that. And i spoke to alan about it when it comes time for the financing, which will be well, i have to pay so get on i got no a forensic analysts from the das office also took the stand today, testifying to the chain of custody of that recording that you just heard. Now, this was necessary because unlike in most trials, the defense is refusing to stipulate that certain evidence entered into the record is true. As to this mornings Contempt Hearing Prosecutors asked judge juan merchan to sanction the former president for a second time this week, for an additional four violations they say of his gag order after court today, he mentioned those restrictions and cited them inaccurately to make this false claim. Well, im not allowed to test if i am under again, go under i cant even testified now were going to be appealing the game but not allowed to testify this judge, whos coming conflict, it has to be under an unconstitutional gag order nobodys ever had that before. Theres never been any abuse like this before. This conflicted jets you to get added this case, you shouldnt be he should not be happening this case. It gives us nothing. Its such a rigged court so im not allowed to testify because of that unconstitutional gag order were appealing. The gag order. And lets see what happens that plain and simple in legal terms is nonsense. He has every right to testify in his defense. He has said that he would then last week, he waffled saying he would testify, quote, if its necessary now it seems to be laying the groundwork for backing out entirely. As always, plenty to talk about back with us as new york Defense AttorneyArthur Aidala former federal prosecutor, bestselling author Geoffrey Tube and newsnight anchor Abby Phillips sources, kaitlan collins, cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and the new york times, maggie haberman, who was in court today. Maggie, what was in court today its surreal everyday, but i would say that the strangest moment came toward the end of the de and it was a rough de of testimony. Keith pleaded get some dings into him on crossexamination. It got very tense. He got very flustered. He ended up sounding pretty weaselly as he was giving answers, but prosecutors played these exchanges between cohen secretly taped. One was with Keith Davidson and then the other was Michael Cohen and trump, which you just played. And that tape is basically what jurors were left with as the most dramatic testimony for the day. There was some other not particularly interesting testimony at the very end, as you say, from a custodian of records basically saying that he had checked out cohens phone and it was all forensically true that this material came from it, but we still dont really know what the jury thinks. And i think thats really important to bear in mind. Can you describe the Cohen Trump Recording is a doozy well, i mean, look, weve heard this tape for which again is a legal term, so right. Thank you. Very clarifying for me. Its been six years, almost to the day that we know about this tape. And so its obviously not new to us, but i think when you are hearing it a as a juror and be in the context of that courtroom. It just sounded very different, particularly at a time when trumps lawyers were arguing that this was essentially well just Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen. They didnt make this argument explicitly, but they were leaning into the idea that these two were just freelancing and the davidson was essentially extorting trump. And so that didnt get dispelled from that tape. But the idea that trump didnt know what have its also the first time that the jury has heard from trump. Thats because i mean, we see him talking going into the gorp coming out of the court saying things that are true is you just show there even though todd blanche his attorneys shook his head. Yes. When the idea that hes not allowed to testify is just not true it and trump looked to him for affirmation and he shook his head. Yes. But in the in the courtroom okay is very quiet. He lists first his attorneys something that they were annoyed about. It sounded like today when its reported, how often theyre speaking. But you cant hear what hes saying. And for the most part, he has his eyes closed a lot during the prosecution asking questions of the witnesses. He was watching as Keith Davidson was being crossexamined today. But this is really the first time the jury has actually heard trump so voice which i think is what makes that tape so remarkable. So many elements at that tape. To analyze. And if youre the juror and youre going home for the night and youre replaying it in your mind, maybe some of them have heard it before. Maggies point. Its been out there for awhile but first, just the fact that it exists, i think is incredibly notable. Michael cones tone in the call is also incredibly notable. Trump then, kind of correcting him about the means of funding this thing that strikes out to you immediately that he wants it to be in cash, not not financed, quote, unquote. Theres so many elements of it that if youre just from a human perspective, not a legal perspective. That replays in my mind. I imagined the jurors would be thinking about all of those aspects of it as theyre trying to analyze that takes you from the lawyers. But what i think today, we saw almost for the first time is there is a coherent theory of the defense in this case, you may not buy it and the jury may not buy it, but the theory here here is that Michael Cohen and Keith Davidson cooked up a profitmaking scheme to get money out of donald trump on the eve of the election. And by the way, Michael Cohen made over 400,000 out of this scheme which youve got later in 2017 and thats the defense here. Its not crazy and it may yet be refuted by the prosecution, but at least it is a theory of why donald trump is my job. What yeah. Im just trying to be roll here, whats up . Im trying to be fair so since you did my job for me ends and the part that im still struggling with is that an individual who was the president of the united states, who wants to be the president of the united states, said something as really so foolish that i can testify because of this gag order as a citizen, ill take my hat off as the Defense Attorney has a citizen that thats scary actually, i mean, you learn that its like sixth or seventh grade, right . You have a constitutional right to defend yourself. Youll learn about miranda rights, anything you say can be held again xu and look, i feel my heart goes out to todd blanche. I dont know. You do, but youre in that position and trump is such an overpowering presence and he says something ridiculous like that. And your instinct is to protect him but you want to correct them and thats a disaster i mean, its ridiculous statement, but it doesnt impact doesnt in fact about this tape for a minute because that to me is maybe the singlemost its important piece of evidence in this case. This is the tape Michael Cohen made secretly of donald trump when Michael Cohen was a lawyer, dominant was the client. In 2016. I shows you a lot about Michael Cohens confidence in his client. Hear that his voice. So thats the first place i was going to start. I have scrutinized this tape. I have listened to. I have a piece coming out on it tomorrow. Ive listened to every word of it. I hate this tape from a prosecutors point of view. First of all, the circumstances, how shady is that for Michael Cohen who secretly Arthur Aidala, you ever secretly recorded one of your clients or even think about it exact point the universe, right . But, but its on michael color, right . Joseph, so thats point number one. Point number two, the tape itself, its good for prosecutors in that it shows for sure donald trump knew about the payments to Karen Mcdougal, knew it was 150,000 and was okay with it. But thats not the crime. I keep saying it. The crime is in the accounting of it. The structuring of it. And when it gets to that, trump is fairly ignorant of that. And cohen says to him, and i quote, no, no, no, no, no. I got it. And later he says, leave the stuff, lead the nuances, the details to Allen Weisselberg and me, and thats the defense right there down. Trump knew their hush money hush money is not a crime the structuring of it that was Michael Cohen and alloway is berg, they kept trump out and thats what we know from the tape. I would make the argument that we didnt know what cohen is going to testify to. We do know that cohen versus trump would be or cohen versus the defense will be a he said he said and then the jury is going to have to decide which and then they believed we have seen the prosecutors already extracting testimony from various witnesses that is not favorable to Michael Cohen because what theyre clearly trying to do is take the air out of a big reveal when the defense cross examines cohen, but i dont know that all we know is on this tape there. All we can definitively definitively know is on that tape, but i dont know what else is going to be said. And i do think that the documentation in this case look, i think we have not heard a whole lot about with the actual chronos. We have heard a lot about a conspiracy. We have not heard a whole lot about what the actual crime that they have charged him with. And i think that you will hear the defense about that, but i do think that the documentation in the case and that evidence is pretty significant. Its not just relying on testimony. Yeah. I will set the trump team feels really good about how their crossexamination of Keith Davidson went today especially where he was talking about Michael Cohen and how Michael Cohen called Keith Davidson kind of using him as a therapist to lament the fact that trump was not going to bring him into the administration. And Keith Davidson testified that they cohen seemed suicidal and that point because of everything that was happening. But where they felt that it was really the most effective was going after davidson. Weve got incredibly contentious for the first time that weve really seen it be that high of a temper, i think inside the courtroom, as they were drilling down on him, questioning him about whether or not he was extorting trump, likening the other people that he has worked with when it comes to whole cogen, lindsay lohan, charlie sheen, and kinda trying to flip bluster Keith Davidson, which it seemed to be somewhat successful. I dont know how it run the court read in the core, it was it was it was tough sledding. I mean, it was really hard watching it in the just two days ago, two days ago, he was paused he wished and he got almost timid. One thing that was very striking to me in my colleagues watching this is that when david pecker was walking, who is the former and my head was walking through his details of his engagement with Michael Cohen. And really this business of sleaze that he was in charge of he didnt seem ashamed at all. He was almost carefree about the whole thing. Keith davidson seemed really embarrassed as he was getting pushed on the kinds of deals that he was seeking over and over and over again and in terms of pushing celebrities for, i have this client who claims they had an affair with you or this that and the other and in that way, pecker is actually much more i like trump, where there is just this sort of, im not going to be shamed out of The Ring Davidson came off angry, sheepish on certain hostile at certain points and he got his backup a few times and seem to find its footing, but it wasnt it was not a great outing for him. Theres a reason and emil bove eight has been very strong and these crossexaminations, so he and hes one of the differences. Maybe one of the reasons and the lawyers who you can talk to it that the difference between pecker khuzaa businessman, hes in this just to make money. He doesnt care as lawyers, we have these ethical obligations would take it old wheres this supposed to be a moral high ground . Youre not supposed to be extorting people. Youre not supposed to be accused of extorting people. As a lawyer, youre not supposed to be investigated for extorting people as a lawyer all of those things happened to him. So i could see it being much more defensive, been peckers yeah, did this and i made the Company Millions though. One thing i think we learned today was wide david pecker was put first by the prosecution because the argument in the prosecution is look pecker and trump inperson, not some deputy, but tracker and trump made this agreement to protect him before the election all the rest of this is the execution of that. And sure. These people are the defenses. Keith davidson is terrible. Michael cohen is terrible, but the pressure in the Process Secretion is going to ask at the end of the case, is who benefited from all this . Who is who is the person who is above it all of the fine details, but who set this process in motion . The argument that prosecution is going to make is that it was donald trump he was he set it in motion and he was the beneficiary and all these sleeves fact, all these sleazy people were just doing what trump will also is the argument that all these sleazy people are living in the petri dish that donald trump has built. Well, thats i think the real risk. And im curious what the lawyers on this panel thank but i think that is the real risk for the defense with what the jury here says, the jury here, that theres gradations of this or theres the jury hold. Donald trump accountable for everything theyre going to hear about Michael Cohen, about david pecker, about Keith Davidson, that this was what was taking place. Michael cohen referred donald trump for a really long time and its probably going to be a big stretch for the defense to ask the jury to believe that Michael Cohen was off doing his own thing all the time. Maybe especially given that relationship, i hundred percent agree. I mean the question comes up, how do you substantiate whether donald trump was fully aware of all the contours of it, not just that the payment was being made, but that it was being made for the purposes of the election, et cetera, et cetera. But one of the things that i think some of these witnesses have a stat has established is that trump uses emissaries intermediaries to execute the things that he does. And from a common sense perspective, if youre on the jury, i dont think thats hard to understand that a person like donald trump would use Michael Cohen to do as dirty work. I mean, its just its just not that hard to bridge that gap from just a common sense perspective, we go to take a quick break next, john berman, who has been going through todays Trial Transcript for the closer look at the picture of the jurors are getting of Michael Cohen oh, and also the very latest from University Campuses around the country, including ucla. Were police moved in overnight so its the playoffs. 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