Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703 : vimarsana.com

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Hours after an attorney for the former president did what he likely wishes he could but cannot because of a gag order launch into a verbal assault on Michael Cohen in his motives and combustible pass, the language was course from the start prompting an immediate sidebar with the judge moments later, the defense returned to the colorful language cone is used on social media to describe his onetime boss painting, an image of him as a jolted former employee with dollar signs in his eyes also for the second day this week, the course of the former president s allies, some of whom are vp contender, showed up attacking the trial and cohen in ways once again, the former president cannot joining our team here tonight is karen ramy, a reporter for the Wall Street Journal has been following the trial from inside the courtroom. What stood out to you today . I think that moment you just described with todd blanche sort of coming straight out of the gates super aggressive at the beginning of cross very much stood out to me, especially because of i think it was well, if the judge the answer is no theyre shawn shut it down quickly. And as we saw in the transcript, that sidebar, my sean said dont make this about you for that perspective no. But for the jury, i mean, i guess it did show that he was aggressive and his intention was to go after cohen, even if ultimately the rest of the cross are much of the rest of the cross was a little more toned down. You have a sense of what the reaction in the courtroom was or whether youre how the jurors seemed to interpret it throughout the jurors were quite engaged. They werent sort of captivated the way but i think they were sometimes during the Stormy Daniels testimony, but they were engaged. They were taking notes. They seem to be taking it seriously. At times, i had a pretty good seat of like being able to see the jury today and blanche would be asking about some of cohens Social Media Habits and hed be talking about a Chito Crusted Cartoon Villain or some such thing. And the jurors are like Studiously Writing notes and wondering like they just write down Sciutto Crusted Cartoon Villain its very possible its robust you said that you pointed out that cohens testimony is essential to prosecutors because hes the only witness who was tied to cover up a Hush Money Payment directly to trump. Do you think he was effective in doing so . And do you think in his testimony well, i think thats the big question here, is whether there are these moments that cohen talks about, that he is the only one bin tell that story like prosecutors did the absolute best they could in having the phone records, having the pictures this morning when he was talking about the Oval Office Meeting prosecutors would flash things on the screen. There was a photo of cohen at a podium at a lectern and the white house, there was a calendar entry showing that he had recorded that he went to the white house on that certain de so i imagine theres no doubt in jurors minds that cohen was in the white house on that certain day but whether in that meeting trump had the conversation that cohen recalls having. I think thats something that jurors are going to be deciding over the next week of the trial. And for as much as as important as it is for Michael Cohen for the prosecution making there are argument hes also the biggest witness for the defense and making their counterargument and saying that donald trump wasnt responsible for this. And so there is so much writing on how todd blanche does handle that when Michael Cohen is back on the stand on thursday and what we heard from this afternoon is that trump was initially pleased with how this is the only thing todd blanche is really done in this case he hasnt really crossexamined anyone else at length or taken much of a presence. Hes been there every day, but this is his entire job is to crossexamine Michael Cohen and to do so successfully, trump was initially happy with how todd blanche actually did today. Of course, trump judges everything that he really sees in his evaluation based on the perception and the coverage of it so well see if that changes over the next. So that point elie, how did you think todd blanche did today . Well, i wasnt impressed with him with just based on the transcript and based on our feed, we had a cnn i thought he was a little bit all over the map and im interested in what you thought because weve been focused very much on what was Michael Cohens demeanor . How did he play in the courtroom . What was blanche like . Because i know him. I go back to the sudden district of new york with him. He was a pretty mild personality, like all of us. He can get more more jacked up for the courtroom. What was he like after that initial aggressive questioning . Yeah. It was much more mild. I mean, it wasnt timid. It wasnt he wasnt afraid of cohen, but it was called it was he was clearly prepared. Hed clearly been practicing for this moments but he wasnt attacking cohen its interesting for the most part youve seen a lot of the trial up close. Do you feel that there is an explanation for this 420,000 . Colors other than what the prosecution has said that money is four i mean, whats the Defense Argument for what this 420,000 is for it just because donald trump felt like giving it to Michael Cohen. I think prosecutors were trying to squash a few possible Defense Arguments today. In their questioning, they talked about the legal work that cohen had done or even consulting work sort of post trumps election and it was minimal like they were trying to make to say defense if youre going to argue that this is what cohens getting paid for. It will not cut it i think they made that case, but i think the question is not whether what cohen was getting paid for or was this a legal retainer. It really is about whether trump himself directed these false Business Records that he is charged with and that is something that cohen is the one who can speak to that. And michael, you dont think i mean, typically i think the prosecution has proved their case. You dont think that i dont think they have yet. I mean, i think theyre trying to with cohen. I think thats why weisselberg is such a big deal and it is absence from the trial is such a big deal. I think theyve gotten to the part of yeah, theres some false Business Records grids, but this next step of did they falsify the record with the intent of committing another crime . I think thats where you put trump in the room where you need somebody to what tobacco, what go in. And as karen said, i mean, i think the the main weakness in the governments case is the connection of donald trump not to the payments, but to the creation of the false Business Records. I mean, we heard about how those records were knowledge if he had knowledge that it was being knowledge is not enough. He has to have caused it. Now, he doesnt have to have done it himself. He doesnt have two views the dropdown menu. He doesnt have to have put the words retainer on the on the the check stub but he has to have engaged in behavior that led the people who did actually do the writing to have done that. But can you make the argument that his behavior if he so lets put Stormy Daniels and he wanted to cover it up and he paid the such money that that caused the behavior. Well i think its got to be a little more direct than that. I mean, it doesnt have to be him saying file this. No, it doesnt have to be an explicit instruction, but it does have to be behavior that led to this specific act of creating the false business record. And that is to me, still the weakest part of the governments case. Everything else i think is theyve gotten to it is Michael Cohen saying that donald trump did approve it verbally when Allen Weisselberg showed it to him. That is really and its not clear theyre going to get much closer to that. So thats the question of truly it is up to the jury and if they view that as legitimate enough and far enough, the word the language in an indictment is crucial. And remember, youve got to lawyers on this jury, which is unusual that might really look at the technical aspects of it and what it says is that the writing, the ms record is done with the intent to defraud and the intent to commit another crime. And aid and covering it up so theyve got all of these things. Ive got approved and im saying i dont think theyve gotten all the way across the finish line with them, but i think if im not mistaken, it may say antony dive in. But when the judge is going to instruct the jury on the law and its really going to be an or practically so its going to be enough for them to prove that it was done with the intention of concealing another crime. I think all of us one thing they bill told the jury is that theres direct evidence and the circumstantial evidence, but both are evidence. So we dont need necessarily that smoking gun moment where someone comes comes in and heres a video or something else. You could have substantial evidence may think what the strength of the prosecutions case. Heres what weve been talking about is going to be this competing narratives and we have a lot of evidence here. I think the idea that the process, but the jury is going to say, yes, he did this for the campaign in yes he he he on tape with Michael Cohen and yes david pecker also met with him and yet he signed all these checks, did all that stuff, but the one thing he didnt know about was about the ossification of these documents. I dont think it really makes rational sense. I think if youre a Defense Lawyer, your case, youre counternarrative has to make rational sense. I think here its not going to be enough to have these little next up credibility but its not going to be enough to say you really have a vendetta against the sky because for everything, theyve shown Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels say about donald trump. They have another tweet, like you said, kaitlan, they have another more vitriol thats coming the other way so really what were looking at, a lot of folks from the Defense Table to the cooperators who were all dirty, i think but those documents were i think the prosecution at tip over to having a pretty persuasive case current. I mean, i think oh, sorry. No good. I think the other thing the prosecution does is we have heard a lot the past couple of days about trump and micromanaging. Like they have really made a case that trump wasnt not only was trump on micromanager but, the cohen wanted that and really wanted trumps approval, wanted trumps attention and checkin with trump at every step of the way, every step of the way that cohen needed trumps approval, not just because trump wanted it, because cohen needed it let me ask you the former president has had a growing entourage and nonfamily members, but of various characters who are additional for Vice President and other things the group that was there today, what kind of an impact did that have in the i mean, were they noticeable in the courtroom . Do they . Does it change the dynamic . And anyway, the courtroom, they were noticeable. The sort of Courtroom Benches behind trump have at times been half empty, right . When i was there, like Boris Epshteyn was just there checking his phone and thrilled. Yeah. Sometimes its like that and so theres this packed courtroom of reporters and like five people from the public in the back and then the he is empty pews near where trump is sitting are behind where trump is sitting. But the past couple of days, its been packed that he has had all these supporters and its quite noticeable. And at one point today, some of these republican elected officials in the middle of one just walked in and it was so odd because theres a lot of rules in the courtroom that we cant just say go to the bathroom or have a snack or like do whatever you want or leave . Yeah. You cant even eat in that courtroom. And it was in a moment with Michael Cohen was answering a question from the prosecution and the Morning Break had ended. They had all trumps allies had gone outside to do a Press Conference because you can weaken still have our computers. You could see online they were outside speaking publicly and only a few people came back in after the break. We assume they could just left because the bench was empty behind donald trump and then while Michael Cohen is in the middle of a sentence in walks, byron donalds, vivek ramaswamy, governor burgum another campaign aide. I believe theres at least four people, maybe five, and they dont slip into the back and go to the back row. They walk all the way up to the front and they get in the second row. It wasnt clear from i was on the left side, so it wasnt clear how the jury, if they looked if it distracted them, if it distracted Michael Cohen, but there was a moment where i saw the judge, Justice Marshall ive been watching him throughout the case. He was essentially glaring at them. He looked noticeably annoyed at the fact that they just walked in and you just dont see that in that courtroom. It was the least i mean, its a very ordered proceeding. And that was the least order, but i think ive seen in the past couple of weeks, things are binoculars if theyre in a sidebar, i mean, its that strict and theres multiple Court Officers Walking Around telling you you cant be talking, you cant be on your phone if youre a Reporter Member of the public. And it was just it was a kind of love that you have been oculars im going to like those oculars binoculars, you know, i dont have monocular and i was starting to think that i needed some. Now theyve been cracking down here i couldnt randy, its great to have you. Thank you. Thanks for having me everyone is going to stay here. We may not have video of Michael Cohens backandforth with the defense, but there is definitely heat than emanates out the transcripts, john berman joins us that also ahead. What was said in court today, but with the former president would be testifying in this case from medium rare well so many ways to save life ready, wallet, happy. 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Always moving forward. We lead. Others follow. Healthy home now up to 50 off and ako this is cnn. The worlds news closed captioning is brought to you by skechers, handsfree slip ends. This tiny home tran now this is more like it. The same goes for my foot work. Well, i one handsfree with wide fits, get your slipping dry wipe fits, get your slip if one thing comes through loud and clear in the transcripts from todays trial,