Interference case, special harris is actively behind it and he goes on to accuse her of weaponizing the system against our political opponent, which she is not so pam, a lot of what's in the new indictment is actually the same as what's in the first indictment. However, the new indictment we call it a superseding indictment make some crucial changes. So first of all, here's what's been removed from the first indictment. First of all, any allegation relating to donald trump's efforts to pressure the justice department is central theme of the first indictment was that trump leaned on doj try to get them to substantiate his false claims of voter fraud. That is out now, second of all, some other trump communications with white house advisors, the supreme court had said, those are probably immune. Jack smith has now removed many of them from the case. And third, i found this really interesting. The first indictment refers to donald trump is the 45th president of the united states the new indictment returned today actually does not call him that. All it says is he was a candidate for office. They're not trying to insult him. They're trying to shift the focus from things he did as president to things he did as a candidate in his unofficial capacity. Now, a couple of important things have been added to the case. So first of all, there is now explicit mentioned in the indictment that donald trump had no role certifying state elections, and he had no role in overseeing presidential electors because a key part of the case that remains is this false electors scheme. And finally, the new indictment adds an allegation that congressional staffers took the physics paper electoral certificates out of the chamber on january 6, and that's a response to a separate supreme court ruling that said there has to be some element of document fraud or document tampering in order to be obstruction. So i think jack smith is trying to now work within that ruling as well. All right. So john, to bring you in, the supreme court's me merrily rolling, how much do you think this indictment has been weakened? and jack smith's case, again? go through, obviously, it's going to be litigated at the district court level, which is the lowest court before a judge. Chuck can and she's going to decide initially if this works under the very vague, unclear sure standards set by the supreme court and hopefully the more explicit and detailed she is the more likely it will survive and make it back through the supreme court because i'm sure donald trump will appeal whatever happens in the next phase of the process. Right so the bottom line is this is not going to trial anytime soon. Certainly not before the election, but ellie, walk us through what the next steps are here, what we see donald trump go back to play again. Yeah, so now they fight it out in court. I'm sure donald trump, when he goes into court next week, we'll say we still think a lot of the stuff that's in the indictment is immune and should come now, jack smith obviously will defend his indictment and judge chutkan has to sort that out. She can either hear from the lawyers in written briefs or she can hold a hearing which might look like a mini trial to decide what's in and what's out. And as john said, from there, donald trump will have the right to appeal to the court of appeals, the intermediate court of appeals, and then protest the supreme court. So 0. 0% chance this thing gets tried before the 2024 election and john, just yesterday, jack smith filed an appeal to bring back the classified documents case. Now he's filing the superseding indictment to save the election interference case do think he's sending a signal here that he's going to keep up the fight i think it's very clear he's going to keep up the fight the maralago documents case. He filed a very aggressive brief. He did not ask for the judge to be removed. All of this would if she is overturned, would be he's a third strike and i suspect it's a very strong brief showing that the judge judge cannon had very little basis for tossing the case and dismissing the special prosecutor. There's a long history in the department of justice, the attorney general's appointing special prosecutors. She wants to demolish that. Indeed did she would have her ruling upheld. All assistant u. S. Attorneys would be out of work. So it's a very striking situation down there. And i think jack smith is aggressively defending, the department of justice, his office, and the cases he's filed all right. Elie honig, john dean. Thank you. Both the political fallout already coming fast and furious. Let's get some reaction from two campaign veterans, ashley allison was the coalitions director on the bidenharris 2020 campaign and david urban was a trump campaign advisor. Great to see you both. Let's take it off with you. Ashley trump is already fundraising off of this. No surprise there. He's emailing please. Please give $10 to stand with trump asap during past indictments. Of course we saw trump also fundraising and really a fundraising surge should the harris campaign be concerned about that? i don't think so you know, people who are supporting donald trump unfortunately, even though he already has 34 felony convictions, are going to continue to give to this campaign what i think the harris campaign should do though, is use this as a reminder that we are literally having a debate about whether or not a president should be a person should be elected president who tried to overthrow the election in this indictment is a reminder for those voters who are independent, who are undecided, that if you don't want the ongoing chaos and mischievious behavior like donald trump then let's not go back to him. Let's move forward with me, so i would use as an opportunity to continue to draw the contrast and the folks who are going to support donald trump, so that he can pay his legal bills will continue to do that. David donald trump is blaming harris saying she is pushing this. Of course she's no control over jack smith, but politically is this a lifeline for him something to grab onto an attack when he's been so flummoxed by harris listen pam i think that, is elie and john dean just said that this had to be done, it was it's kind of mechanical for jack smith and continue to move along in this case. What i think it does give the president shop at opportunity to do is perhaps, maybe talk about the letter that was published yesterday or sent to jim jordan yesterday from mark zuckerberg, where he says that he received pressure to censor search terms during covid that the bidenharris administration, you know, kind of set censored, maybe even in violation of the law, the first amendment then was pressured to cover up, not publish the hunter biden story. So i think maybe gives maybe gives him a leg to kind of go there with it and use it as a says i'm being persecuted here, but yet the bidenharris administration is doing awful things and they're getting away with it and point to the zuckerberg butter right? and the white house is pushing back on that. But david, i want you and your audience and listened to trump's running mate, senator j. D. Vance, reacting to this news gavin read the whole thing, but it looks like jack smith doing more what he does, which is filing these absurd lawsuits and an effort to influence the election. I think it's clearly an effort to try to do more election interference from jack smith he should be ashamed of himself as one of the reasons why we have to win because he should not be anywhere near bauer. I mean, first of all, this isn't a lawsuit. I mean, these are incredibly serious criminal charges that could hold jail time what does that even mean that jack smith shouldn't be anywhere near power in your view, david i think the j. D. Vance i'm not going to try to interpret as his his, you know, mince his words you clearly heard him say it what i think he's trying to say is, you know, ashley pointed out earlier that donald trump is convicted of 34 counts and in new york courtroom by all accounts even our own fried zakaria said that if his name wasn't donald trump, those those counts wouldn't have been brought. I do think there's a great deal of law fair being waged against this former president in this campaign, there were suits initially to keep him off the ballot and many, in many states 14th amendment suits which all failed the suit and georgia, the students in new york. This suit. So a lot of people just hear white noise. They see the legal system is an extension of the political system, and that's unfortunate because there are some in some instances, some real justice able issues that need to be tried and they get just matt it up in this big morass of politics. It's unfortunate. What do you think about that harris about that ashley, because there are there's a large swath of trump's supporters who believed exactly what david just laid out there, right and this could further galvanize them. Is there any concern about that, that each development like this, like what? we're seeing today with the superseding indictment will just further drive voters to the polls for donald trump i think it's important for all of us to remember and talk about the facts on what really happened. We all witnessed january 6. We all know how the people decided to come on january 6 is because of tweet that donald trump put out and that he encouraged folks to go to the capital. We know that he did try and find votes in georgia that did not exist. And was colluding with folks around fake fake electors. We do know those things and we also know that donald trump lost the 2020 election and i think that there was an opportunity unfortunately, probably the boat has probably sailed at this point, but there was an opportunity at some point for all of us to just acknowledge that donald trump laws and that he should tell his supporters that he lost. But instead, he continues to do and now his running mate continues to sow doubt systems that are not perfect. But in this instance are actually working because he did do things that were very troubling that we're very undermining to our democracy. And i think most people can look at that. But when you aren't operating in facts, it can lead people to feel doubtful and systems that they don't feel like i've always worked for them it is worth noting what you just laid out there the president biden has called out trump repeatedly, saying he's a threat to democracy, pointing that out, you're seeing the harris campaign not focus as much on that shifting away from that, talking about other issues in this campaign. It is interesting. Ashley allison, david urban. Thank you both so much. Thanks. And then just moments from now, i want to talk to trump's former national security pretty adviser about this new indictment. 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