Transcripts For CNN The Source With Kaitlan Collins 20240906

Tonight, now facing multiple charges including second degree murder. And cnn has learned that father telling investigators he bought that gun for his son as a holiday president which, would make the purchase, just months after authorities contacted the family, all investigating school shooting threats. I'm kaitlan collins and this is the source authorities in georgia tonight, wasting no time. Because just a day after that mass shooting at apalachee high school in winder, georgia, the father of the 14yearold suspect is now facing charges of his own he is charged with the following four counts of involuntary manslaughter two counts of second degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children mr. Gray, these charges stem from mr. Gray knowingly allowing his son colt, to possess a weapon our law enforcement team tonight confirms this is just the second time a parent of an accused school shooter has been charged in relation to the crime. The first of course, the parents of the michigan school shooter in 2021, ethan crumbley's parents were convicted of involuntary manslaughter in both sentenced to a decade in prison remember the judge in that case lamented about the warning signs and missed opportunities. They had to prevent what their son did and a reminder of just how young the gunman, the accused gunman in this shooting is. Look at him here at the barrow county sheriff's office today released his booking photo, cold gray is now facing four counts a felony murder tonight are expecting his initial court appearance to happen tomorrow morning. And authorities say that while being questioned, he told investigators, quote, i did it cnn's ryan young is on the ground in winder, georgia. We just got an update from officials ryan, what more are you learning on the ground about the remarkable news tonight that the father has now been arrested as well. Yeah, absolutely. Kaitlan. Look, we've worked covered these stories before i can tell you investigators from the inside of in very angry about some of the details they've been able to discover over the last few hours. They've been working this nonstop. Look, we reported earlier that in a nearby county jackson county, that there was that report that happened and investigators stopped by at that a point, collin gray, the father, indicated to investigators yes, there were guns inside the house, but there was no unsupervised access to those guns. It's after that that investigators tell us that apparently for a holiday gifts, this gun was purchased and then say ar platform style weapon that was apparently broken down went to a backpack and then brought into the school. So that is the big question now because investigators are trying to figure out how did the gun and make it into school. They're going through the video there searching exactly what happened. But i can tell you they are so angry at the fact that this gun was only purchased just a few months ago jackson county schools was put on alert, but he transfer to the barrel county school system. Then there's that whole mix up where in terms of how many days that he actually attend school? we do know on tuesday, he reported that he had anxiety, went to the counselor's office and then of course, a couple of days later, that fatal shooting that happened that has left this community torn apart with all all this happening, even right now, there are more than a dozen people standing right behind me at this memorial that has been gathering steam throughout the day because people have been arriving here nonstop and reflecting about how much they love this school and this community. People were shocked that the arrest happened so quickly. Now, what what i tell you is not only to the gbi, not tell us what the sheriff where was the father arrested? we spent time outside the home today, talked to neighbors. Neighbors said they had just moved in recently because we know he transferred schools were still trying to find out those details. And when he will have his first court appearance is something that we're still tracking at this very hour, caitlin. Yeah, and it was good to hear from officials. They do believe all the victims who were in the hospital who are wounded are expected to make a uncover some of them already released. Ryan young, keep us updated with what you're hearing on the ground for more on this arrest tonight. Joining me is the former deputy director of the fbi, andrew mccabe and cnn's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, john miller and john and when you when you look at how quickly this happened tonight, this came out and we came out right before we heard from officials, they come out, they said the father knowingly allowed his son to possess this weapon. He said they had probable cause. What could that look like? that could look like a couple of things which is one an interview with the father where he was where he we are are told by our sources disclose to them that he bought this gun that immediate a gift. And it is likely in that conversation that they pressed him on what were the conditions of access to that gun, but then there is the wild card, which we have less visibility into, which is the sheriff told cnn today, told isabella rosalas that when the 14yearold suspect sat down, he started talking, was read his miranda rights and has continued talking. So we also have to assume that some of the information they had about what level of access he had to it, how he got access to it, how he got access to ammunition and loaded it likely came from him i mean, that speaks to the power of also having the sun in the dad both to speak to them and injure when you when you look at this and you heard what investigators were saying at that press conference just a few moments ago. I mean, this is the only second time that we know of where a parent has been arrested in direct relation to a school shooting carried out by their child. What stood out to you from what you heard from officials well it's an incredible story that we've learned throughout the course of the day today, it certainly seems justified, right? i think anyone who's been following the story learning that the father basically armed the sanaa few wants to go after receiving these concerns about alleged threats to the school. It's just absolutely horrifying. But we have to remember that. So far with what little we know about the information that police actually have right now, it's hard to say whether or not this is a case that will stand up to the sort of legal scrutiny that we saw in the mission case, the michigan case against the crumbleys you will remember kaitlan in that case. You had a situation, very rare situation where the parents knew two things, right before the shooting took place. One, that their son had a weapon, they provide it to him and to that he was experiencing this mental distress and school and having these very violent writings and comments his notebook, they were called into school to address that. He actually had the gun in his backpack during that meeting. So they knew that very close in time to when the shooting took place. So far, we don't have that same sort of temporal connection that we know of yet between what the father knew in the days and hours leading up to the shooting. But i suspect that georgia would not have indicted him unless they have as john suggested, some pretty solid information yeah. It's a huge step by the georgia bureau of investigations and john, we have this audio of when investigators went and spoke with the dad. This is 2023 when the student was still the shooter was 13yearsold at the time, and there have been threats made online. They went to investigate it. And this is what the dad said to them about weapons and the presence of them inside the house? yeah. I've wolf for him they are having there's nothing loaded, but they are down we were actually we do a lot of shooting. We do out there on he shot his first year this year so i'm pretty much in shock. It'd oscillator. Well, come old off to be even really honest with you. That event is what was said i mean, that conversation happens and seven months later, eight months later, he buys him an ar 15 for christmas yes. So that is that is quite bizarre, but if you look at the history here go back to the newtown, connecticut massacre of those little children in their first clade classrooms this was a boy who was going through dealing with mental problems his mother bought him that rifle and they went shooting together. It was what they do to bond. And he took that he killed her and then killed those children remember newport news, virginia, the firstgrader, a sevenyearold, went in and shot his teacher with a pistol that mom was charged for nazis if guarding that gun in a way that he couldn't get to it so this is going to become a recurring theme. And i believe that the charging of parents with these extraordinarily serious charges, that convictions we saw with the crummy, the 21 months that the first graders, mom served for child endangerment, what will in this case will start to send a warning to parents that this is not a joke about locking up these guns. What are the gun storage laws in georgia? there lacks if i recall, if georgia has very liberal gun laws for instance, kaitlan possession of a rifle by a person under 18 is not particularly unlawful purchase of a rifle require somebody to be 18, 21 for a handgun but there's no permit process. And if they're at home and their parents give them permission, if they're on a firing range, even handguns become legal it's a state where as andy pointed out, one of the challenges is going to going to get these charges to stick by showing there was compelling reasons to know that having access to that gun by this kid in his state of mind was a clear and present danger. Well, and andrew mccabe dad has been charged tonight with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of seconddegree murder, and eight counts of cruelty to children. Why is it only two counts of seconddegree murder when obviously, as we know, there are four victims here yeah, that's a really good question. Kaitlan. I don't have the answer to that one off the top my head. I'm not an expert on georgia state law, but those charges all represent different approaches to holding him responsible for these deaths they are charges that would allow for the conviction of someone holding somebody accountable for death for less than what you see in a traditional homicide prosecution. Prosecution like murder with malice aforethought. These are charges that open up the possibility of convicting someone for engaging in reckless conduct or criminally negligent conduct. So i'm not sure about what by just those two. But certainly you're seeing an array of charges here to open the opportunity to potentially get a conviction based on something less than the traditional homicide standard for conviction conditions, something along the reckless or negligent levels. Yeah. I knew, you we're just mentioning ethan crumbley and the warning signs that were so clearly present that case in michigan before before he shot up his school, john, i mean, that exist here to the look at what his family is telling the washington post, an ant saying he was begging for help from everybody around him, the adults around him fail to. His grandfather was thanks. Something similar to the new york times. We know that investigators who were searching the home found writings in his room referencing school shootings, referencing what happened at marjory stoneman douglas i mean, the signs are there. It's not just that no one had any idea and i think that this is this combines with so what the grandfather said when he talked about the conditions at home, the fact that his father was abusive, not physically abusive, but screamed and yelled and things were a very high pitch a very difficult divorce, he said, but i'm telling you the environment he lived in. You put somebody in a situation like that for ten or 11 years. And remember, we're talking about a kid who's 13 and then 14 guess what's going to happen nothing good. A lot of family members saw the situation developing there. Yeah. I mean, just so many questions about what everyone knew. John miller, andrew mccabe. Thank you both tonight i do want to note we've been talking a lot about the shooter and about his father. Understandably. So given the news tonight, but i also want to remember the four victims of yesterday's shooting again tonight, 14yearold student, mason schumer horn and 14yearold christian angulo. And the teachers at that school, richard aspen wall and christina era of course, thinking of their families, their friends, their loved ones on this night, there's much more to come on. This new arrest. All the new details and there are a lot of them. They're coming out tonight. We're going to be joined by a criminal defense attorney on whether those charges could hold up in court plus there are some big news in the trump election interference case. There has been basically none since last december, but now we're learning more about the critical evidence that voters could see before the election. Cnn special event, the abc news presidential debate tuesday at nine on cnn negra. So why don't you act like a good sister and gave me swirls baby back ribs, me directing at china. Sea go get you can cut drama. Maybe i'll just go get wings for everybody he sharing gonna be okay for me fine. All right hi. How are you guys getting by great way to give me call you back. You never want to lose your edge this suv that really understands that alexis rx your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel nothing beats it. I recommend pro enamel active shields because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a game changer for my patients, try pronational mouthwash i'm howie mandel, the newest ambassadors dentures plenty story how i became an ambassador. I went to the store and i lied and said i wasn't ambassador. Do i get it this count, the owner called me and said, would you like to be an ambassador for sketchers? and i said, yes, trying to get your slip ends she you were made to chase your passions. We were made to put them in a package ey it's a couple think again, i needed for my homework. You're still brimming with these doe get cartridge to the cartridge free absolute go take no more spending big bucks on tiny expensive cartridges. Thank comes with up to two years of iq. That's enough to print up the 5,000 pages and switched to eco tank and save up to $100 visit epps and eco tank. Com today to switch and say, just filler joe. Have i got news for you? it's coming to cnn this fall pros and cons less pro hosted by roy wood holiday president <\/a>which, would make the purchase, just months after authorities contacted the family, all investigating school shooting <\/a>threats. I'm kaitlan collins <\/a>and this is the source authorities in georgia tonight,<\/a> wasting no time. Because just a day after that mass shooting <\/a>at apalachee high school in winder, georgia, the father of the 14yearold suspect <\/a>is now facing charges of his own he is charged with the following four counts of involuntary manslaughter two counts of second degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children mr. Gray, these charges stem from mr. Gray knowingly allowing his son colt,<\/a> to possess a weapon our law enforcement team tonight <\/a><\/a>confirms this is just the second time a parent of an accused school shooter has been charged in relation to the crime. The first of course, the parents of the michigan school shooter in 2021, ethan crumbley's parents were convicted of involuntary manslaughter in both sentenced to a decade in prison remember the judge in that case lamented about the warning signs <\/a>and missed opportunities. They had to prevent what their son did and a reminder of just how young the gunman, the accused gunman in this shooting is. Look at him here at the barrow county sheriff's office today released his booking photo,<\/a> cold gray <\/a>is now facing four counts a felony murder tonight <\/a>are expecting his initial court appearance <\/a>to happen tomorrow morning.<\/a> And authorities say that while being questioned, he told investigators, quote, i did it cnn's ryan young is on the ground in winder, georgia. We just got an update from officials ryan,<\/a> what more are you learning on the ground about the remarkable news tonight <\/a>that the father has now been arrested as well. Yeah, absolutely. Kaitlan. Look, we've worked covered these stories before i can tell you investigators from the inside of in very angry about some of the details they've been able to discover over the last few hours. They've been working this nonstop. Look, we reported earlier that in a nearby county jackson county,<\/a> that there was that report that happened and investigators stopped by at that a point, collin gray,<\/a> the father, indicated to investigators yes, there were guns inside the house, but there was no unsupervised access to those guns. It's after that that investigators tell us that apparently for a holiday gifts,<\/a> this gun was purchased and then say ar platform <\/a>style weapon that was apparently broken down went to a backpack and then brought into the school. So that is the big question <\/a>now because investigators are trying to figure out how did the gun and make it into school. They're going through the video there searching exactly what happened. But i can tell you they are so angry at the fact that this gun was only purchased just a few months ago jackson county schools was put on alert, but he transfer to the barrel county school system.<\/a> Then there's that whole mix up where in terms of how many days that he actually attend school? we do know on tuesday, he reported that he had anxiety, went to the counselor's office and then of course, a couple of days later, that fatal shooting that happened that has left this community torn apart with all all this happening, even right now, there are more than a dozen people standing right behind me at this memorial that has been gathering steam throughout the day because people have been arriving here nonstop and reflecting about how much they love this school and this community. People were shocked that the arrest happened so quickly. Now, what what i tell you is not only to the gbi, not tell us what the sheriff where was the father arrested? we spent time outside the home today,<\/a> talked to neighbors. Neighbors said they had just moved in recently because we know he transferred schools were still trying to find out those details. And when he will have his first court appearance <\/a>is something that we're still tracking at this very hour, caitlin. Yeah, and it was good to hear from officials. They do believe all the victims who were in the hospital who are wounded are expected to make a uncover some of them already released. Ryan young, keep us updated with what you're hearing on the ground for more on this arrest tonight.<\/a> Joining me is the former deputy director <\/a>of the fbi, andrew mccabe and cnn's chief law enforcement <\/a><\/a>and intelligence analyst,<\/a> john miller and john and when you when you look at how quickly this happened tonight, this came out and we came out right before we heard from officials, they come out, they said the father knowingly allowed his son to possess this weapon. He said they had probable cause. What could that look like? that could look like a couple of things which is one an interview with the father where he was where he we are are told by our sources disclose to them that he bought this gun that immediate a gift. And it is likely in that conversation that they pressed him on what were the conditions of access to that gun, but then there is the wild card,<\/a> which we have less visibility into,<\/a> which is the sheriff told cnn today,<\/a> told isabella rosalas <\/a>that when the 14yearold suspect <\/a>sat down, he started talking, was read his miranda rights <\/a>and has continued talking. So we also have to assume that some of the information they had about what level of access he had to it, how he got access to it, how he got access to ammunition and loaded it likely came from him i mean, that speaks to the power of also having the sun in the dad both to speak to them and injure when you when you look at this and you heard what investigators were saying at that press conference <\/a>just a few moments ago. I mean, this is the only second time that we know of where a parent has been arrested in direct relation to a school shooting <\/a>carried out by their child. What stood out to you from what you heard from officials well it's an incredible story <\/a>that we've learned throughout the course of the day today,<\/a> it certainly seems justified, right? i think anyone who's been following the story learning <\/a>that the father basically armed the sanaa few wants to go after receiving these concerns about alleged threats to the school. It's just absolutely horrifying. But we have to remember that. So far with what little we know about the information that police actually have right now, it's hard to say whether or not this is a case that will stand up to the sort of legal scrutiny that we saw in the mission case,<\/a> the michigan case <\/a>against the crumbleys you will remember kaitlan in that case. You had a situation, very rare situation where the parents knew two things, right before the shooting took place. One, that their son had a weapon, they provide it to him and to that he was experiencing this mental distress and school <\/a>and having these very violent writings and comments his notebook, they were called into school to address that. He actually had the gun in his backpack during that meeting. So they knew that very close in time to when the shooting took place. So far, we don't have that same sort of temporal connection that we know of yet between what the father knew in the days and hours leading up to the shooting. But i suspect that georgia would not have indicted him unless they have as john suggested, some pretty solid information yeah. It's a huge step by the georgia bureau <\/a>of investigations and john, we have this audio of when investigators went and spoke with the dad. This is 2023 when the student was still the shooter was 13yearsold at the time, and there have been threats made online. They went to investigate it. And this is what the dad said to them about weapons and the presence of them inside the house? yeah. I've wolf for him they are having there's nothing loaded, but they are down we were actually we do a lot of shooting. We do out there on he shot his first year this year so i'm pretty much in shock. It'd oscillator. Well, come old off to be even really honest with you. That event is what was said i mean, that conversation happens and seven months later, eight months later, he buys him an ar 15 for christmas yes. So that is that is quite bizarre, but if you look at the history here go back to the newtown, connecticut massacre <\/a>of those little children in their first clade classrooms this was a boy who was going through dealing with mental problems his mother bought him that rifle and they went shooting together. It was what they do to bond. And he took that he killed her and then killed those children remember newport news,<\/a> virginia, the firstgrader, a sevenyearold, went in and shot his teacher with a pistol that mom was charged for nazis if guarding that gun in a way that he couldn't get to it so this is going to become a recurring theme. And i believe that the charging of parents with these extraordinarily serious charges, that convictions we saw with the crummy, the 21 months that the first graders, mom served for child endangerment,<\/a> what will in this case will start to send a warning to parents that this is not a joke about locking up these guns. What are the gun storage laws <\/a>in georgia? there lacks if i recall, if georgia has very liberal gun laws <\/a>for instance, kaitlan possession <\/a>of a rifle by a person under 18 is not particularly unlawful purchase of a rifle require somebody to be 18, 21 for a handgun but there's no permit process.<\/a> And if they're at home and their parents give them permission, if they're on a firing range,<\/a> even handguns become legal it's a state where as andy pointed out, one of the challenges is going to going to get these charges to stick by showing there was compelling reasons to know that having access to that gun by this kid in his state of mind <\/a>was a clear and present danger.<\/a> Well, and andrew mccabe dad <\/a>has been charged tonight with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of seconddegree murder, and eight counts of cruelty to children. Why is it only two counts of seconddegree murder <\/a>when obviously, as we know, there are four victims here yeah, that's a really good question. Kaitlan. I don't have the answer to that one off the top my head. I'm not an expert on georgia state law,<\/a> but those charges all represent different approaches to holding him responsible for these deaths they are charges that would allow for the conviction of someone holding somebody accountable <\/a>for death for less than what you see in a traditional homicide prosecution.<\/a> Prosecution like murder with malice aforethought.<\/a> These are charges that open up the possibility of convicting someone for engaging in reckless conduct or criminally negligent conduct. So i'm not sure about what by just those two. But certainly you're seeing an array of charges here to open the opportunity to potentially get a conviction based on something less than the traditional homicide standard <\/a>for conviction conditions,<\/a> something along the reckless or negligent levels. Yeah. I knew, you we're just mentioning ethan crumbley <\/a>and the warning signs <\/a>that were so clearly present that case in michigan before before he shot up his school, john, i mean, that exist here to the look at what his family is telling the washington post,<\/a> an ant saying he was begging for help from everybody around him, the adults around him fail to. His grandfather was thanks. Something similar to the new york times.<\/a> We know that investigators who were searching the home found writings in his room referencing school shootings, referencing what happened at marjory stoneman douglas <\/a>i mean, the signs are there. It's not just that no one had any idea and i think that this is this combines with so what the grandfather said when he talked about the conditions at home, the fact that his father was abusive, not physically abusive, but screamed and yelled and things were a very high pitch a very difficult divorce, he said, but i'm telling you the environment he lived in. You put somebody in a situation like that for ten or 11 years. And remember, we're talking about a kid who's 13 and then 14 guess what's going to happen nothing good. A lot of family members <\/a>saw the situation developing there. Yeah. I mean, just so many questions about what everyone knew. John miller,<\/a> andrew mccabe. Thank you both tonight i do want to note we've been talking a lot about the shooter and about his father. Understandably. So given the news tonight, but i also want to remember the four victims of yesterday's shooting again tonight,<\/a> 14yearold student,<\/a> mason schumer horn <\/a><\/a>and 14yearold christian angulo.<\/a> And the teachers at that school, richard aspen <\/a>wall and christina era <\/a>of course, thinking of their families, their friends, their loved ones <\/a>on this night, there's much more to come on. This new arrest. All the new details and there are a lot of them. They're coming out tonight. We're going to be joined by a criminal defense attorney <\/a>on whether those charges could hold up in court plus there are some big news in the trump election interference case.<\/a> There has been basically none since last december, but now we're learning more about the critical evidence that voters could see before the election. Cnn special event, the abc news <\/a>presidential debate tuesday at nine on cnn negra.<\/a> So why don't you act like a good sister and gave me swirls baby back ribs,<\/a> me directing at china. Sea go <\/a>get you can cut drama. Maybe i'll just go get wings for everybody he sharing gonna be okay for me fine. All right hi. How are you guys getting by great way to give me call you back. You never want to lose your edge this suv that really understands that alexis rx <\/a>your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel nothing <\/a>beats it. I recommend pro enamel active shields because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a game changer <\/a>for my patients, try pronational mouthwash i'm howie mandel, the newest ambassadors dentures plenty story how i became an ambassador. I went to the store and i lied and said i wasn't ambassador. Do i get it this count, the owner called me and said, would you like to be an ambassador for sketchers? and i said, yes, trying to get your slip ends she you were made to chase your passions. We were made to put them in a package ey <\/a>it's a couple think again, i needed for my homework. You're still brimming with these doe get cartridge to the cartridge free absolute go take no more spending big bucks on tiny expensive cartridges. Thank comes with up to two years of iq. That's enough to print up the 5,000 pages and switched to eco tank and save up to $100 visit epps <\/a>and eco tank. Com today <\/a>to switch and say, just filler joe. Have i got news for you? it's coming to cnn this fall pros and cons less pro hosted by roy wood junior row <\/a>with amber ruffin <\/a>what michaelian black people might confuse you, but abby phillip pro,<\/a> people might confuse me for abby philip,<\/a> are you not abby phillips pro, you know i'm not i was told this was going to be without the shoulders i love her. It's abby phillip. Yes. Okay. Have i got news for you <\/a>the vitamins brand walden <\/a>rushed a woman through ultra berberine <\/a>and superior cmos <\/a>from force that back. Now with our breaking news <\/a>tonight after the father of the suspected apalachee high school shooter <\/a>has now been arrested and charged. There is precedent for this. A case like this, but it doesn't go back very far. Jennifer and james crumbley <\/a>remember they were the parents right of the teenager who killed four students in that 2021 shooting in oxford, michigan at his school. They were both found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced earlier this year? not that long ago. The prosecutor behind that first of its kind case <\/a>spoke to cnn about the parallels moments ago the prosecution of the crumbleys was never, ever meant to be a floodgate of charges against parents because it was such an agr aegis set <\/a>of facts and so i i think i share the emotions of the entire country that even after that wellpublicized case we're still here joining me now cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney <\/a>joey jackson. Joey, when you look at these two this has only happened two times ever that we know of in united states history,<\/a> what parallels do you see so far between georgia and michigan, kayla miss a lot, right? the first parallel is the obvious and that are, you know, children are dead at the hands of other children and then you have to look to how did that happen? and could it have been prevented? and to what, if any, degree, that parents have responsibility? certainly kaitlan we saw responsibility in michigan as it related to those parents being held accountable, both being convicted, bolt serving <\/a>ten to 15 years is result of involuntary manslaughter. That being right. Not intending to kill, but as a result of their gross negligence. If you look at here, it looks like we're seeing something very similar. What a gun being allowed in the hands of a child was war proper measures put in place to secure that weapon apparently not well to the extent that you hold parents responsible, i think you create deterrence. Now, having said deterrence, kaitlan this just happened, michigan, we, when they went to trial literally in february and march of this year, they will found guilty, they being james and jennifer crumbley.<\/a> And here we are. It's september and we're talking about it again, but i think it's certainly vital and necessary for prosecutors to hold parents response.<\/a> And then judge was so upset in that case saying the signs were there and you just ignored them. You didn't heed them and was essentially hoping that would be a warning sign. And now we're seeing this play out again. And i wonder obviously a lot of these shootings, the shooter is not often alive and the fact that he is and he's talking to investigators. And we learned earlier he told them i did it. I would difference. Does that make to an investigation? well, it's big because what you do is you question any suspect here. Obviously the suspects a juvenile. There'll be motions made by defense lawyers <\/a>if it comes a time that there's a trial to suppress those statements on various grounds. Sounds did he know what he was doing? he's younger, certainly law enforcement <\/a>can talk to juveniles. There have protection just like anybody else though. And those statements have to be voluntary, knowing, et cetera.<\/a> But at the end <\/a>of the day to your question, it's a core part <\/a>of the investigation. You want to ask the suspect what happens when addition to a statement, we also know kaitlan that they did some investigation and they found that investigation what his state of mind <\/a>was, what the planning was, what the intent was, a lot more will come out, but the fact that the police responded in a previous time to the home based upon a post that he made and there's still a gun available that's troubling problematic, and arguably criminal well, and what difference does it make for the investigation? didn't they have this audio of the dad? i mean, this was just last last may when there was it's discord. It's the site and a users posting thoughts of school shootings <\/a>that so they went to his house and we're speaking to his father, and they were asking what he said to his son about that. And he was saying you know, i don't think so. I don't remember for anything like that. And the officer was there saying, you know, this is serious stuff and the dad says he knows it's serious, trust me. So in direct answer to your question, this is going to be a prosecution about gross negligence <\/a>the degree to which you put a firearm in the hands of your son, and knowing potentially what the dangers are and what you're sun's behavior is. Now, georgia has a statute very briefly and people ask, why does seconddegree murder and seconddegree <\/a>murder? because if you engage in negligence and the child dies, that's what it is in georgia. So that goes to the negligence and that goes to potential guilt in the case. Very important piece of evidence. Yeah. I mean, just fascinating development and i joey jackson.<\/a> Thank you for that. Up next <\/a>here on the source, a judge has allowed the release of never before seen evidence in the trump election interference case.<\/a> That is going to happen just weeks before the election. More with our political, our legal experts right after this this is your team you have the right set of individuals they're going to take us to the next level hard knocks training camp <\/a>with the chicago bears,<\/a> streaming exclusively on max was had trouble losing weight and keeping same discover the power of weeks the match to be, with rigobi. I lost 35 pounds as some lost over 46 pounds hey. And i'm keeping the weight off we go via helps you lose weight and keep it off i'm reducing my risk. We gouvia is the only fda approved weight management medicine <\/a>that's proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease <\/a>and with either obesity or overweight we go v shouldn't be used with semaglutide or glp1 <\/a>medicines don't take wegovy <\/a>if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer,<\/a> multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome <\/a>type two or allergic to it stop wegovy and get medical help right away. 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It says here kills 99. 9% of border causing bacteria o 30% during are standing desk sale <\/a>at very. Com i hanako montgomery in tokyo.<\/a> And this is cnn trump. There was essentially no movement and donald <\/a>trump's federal election interference case since last december. But just tonight, we have heard from the judge who is overseeing it, making a potentially explosive decision judge tanya <\/a>chutkan, opening the door now for prosecutors to release significant evidence against trump before the election, that includes never before seen evidence, like top secret <\/a>grand jury testimony, fbi memos. The deadline that she said tonight for that brief is september 20, 63 weeks from tonight and less than six weeks before americans go to vote that means that we could see, for instance, exactly what the former vice president <\/a>mike pence had to say to a grand jury when he testified against trump in april of last year, could be explosive, indeed, on it straight to my legal sources tonight <\/a>on this elie honig <\/a>is a former federal prosecutor retired judge jill konviser,<\/a> a former new york state supreme court justice.<\/a> It's great to have you both here. Elie, just on this mike pence's grand jury testimony, if that comes out, that can be i mean, this isn't going to trial. We've been talking about that and focused on that. But if mike pence's testimony comes out, that could be quite significant for sure this is the one thing donald <\/a>trump's lawyers walking into that courtroom today <\/a>did not want to happen for precisely this reason, because what this means is we all in the public will see at least some of what mike pence said behind closed doors.<\/a> Grand jury <\/a>is secret unless it comes out in this type of proceeding, but i do want to raise one really important red flag <\/a>about what happened today. Because prosecutors and the judge are going down a very dangerous path is clear. The prosecutors think they can still introduce evidence of what donald trump said to pressure mike pence and the judge clearly is with them on that. But the supreme court <\/a>in their ruling, they didn't quite say that's out. That's immune. They said that's presumptively immune,<\/a> meaning the supreme court <\/a>has already said we are leaning strongly against letting you put in evidence of what mike pence said so if judge chutkan <\/a>ultimately sides with prosecutors and says, okay, go ahead. You can introduce the mike pence evidence <\/a>at trial. There's a very good chance the supreme court <\/a>reverses that. But in the meantime, before we get to that, though, we could actually see this put aside what's happening in the court in public opinion and politics yes. We will see that on september 26 <\/a>and trump's attorneys were clearly arguing with the election timing in mind. They kept calling it a sensitive time that we are in which judge chutkan <\/a>was not very happy with. She said, quote, this court is not concerned with the electoral schedule and john lauro <\/a>said, we're talking on the presidency of the united states. And she said but i am not talking about the presidency. I am talking about a four court fell four count indictment.<\/a> Well, first of all, it does fall and should perhaps fall on deaf ears with respect to this, judge, because this case is old and dragging along and on hiatus for months and months and months because of the defendant motions <\/a>and because of their appeals that they can take them. That's fine. But it is a little rich for defendant trump <\/a>to it's akin to him killing his parents and begging for mercy from the court because he's an orphan. He created this delay and now we are on the steps, the front lawn of the election, and he's complaining about it he sort of created the delay. So in that sense, i agree with you, but i think your point about the mike pence information,<\/a> the supreme court <\/a>did say that they did send it back to chutkan for her review. And said you make the decision, but yes, they can disagree with her. Right. Wouldn't worry. You. Were the trial judge,<\/a> what it does. But the point also it's why the defense lawyers <\/a>say we want you to rule on that first. We want to know that because once you rule against us, don that we wanted then run to the circuit court <\/a>and then to the supreme court <\/a>to make this even longer. And slower and further away from the election. What the supreme court <\/a>was brought up today, because the defense was essentially saying that they were pointing to the opinion from justice clarence thomas <\/a>in that immunity ruling <\/a>saying that he directed them to essentially make these arguments today <\/a>about pursuing this motion. But then he quickly corrected himself when the judge interrupted and said he directed you to do that. I mean, it does show people were wondering at the time why the why justice thomas those essentially going on about the special counsel <\/a>and his merits as his own office in that ruling. That was a major fail by the defense team.<\/a> I mean, that was an embarrassment. So now they're making a different argument, shifting away from immunity, that special counsel <\/a>itself is unconstitutional and that argument has been made several times, including in the dc federal courts,<\/a> including in that court of appeals <\/a>which have rejected that argument too, said no special counsel's perfectly constitutional. And today, judge chutkan <\/a>said well, isn't that the end <\/a>of the story and trump's team said, well, clarence thomas <\/a>in his immunity ruling <\/a>went sort of on a little bender <\/a>and said, i think you might want to do this completely fell flat. The judge rejected that out of hand. She said, i don't care what one justice said in passing okay. I'm obsessed with this supreme court <\/a>case, but i do have to ask you because tomorrow we are going to find out from judge marshawn <\/a>here in new york who you know, very well. I should i should note for anyone who's forgotten, as we've talked about it, ad nauseam,<\/a> about whether or not he's sentencing donald trump <\/a>13 days from now, or if he's going to wait until after the election, what's your sense? my sense is that he probably hasn't made that determination. I would say he is. If he does and he's if he doesn't, either, he sentences him just before the election and he's criticized because he because it's too close the election or he waits and he looks weak and he's punted it. If i were him and i don't know what he's going to do i would wait till after the election. I would issue my three 3030 post judgment decision <\/a>and i would sentence him if he hasn't granted the motion the same day, that would be the end. Well, it's good to have you booked tomorrow night's will see what happens next 24 hours judge konviser.<\/a> Great to have you both up next year or unimportant follow up on a story that we broke here last night,<\/a> vladimir putin's new plot that's been exposed for now, the kremlin is targeting several popular right wing influencers, real people, not russian trolls here on the u. S. A. Follow up on that right after this kamala harris,<\/a> donald trump, the debate. Everyone's been waiting for follows cnn for complete coverage and exclusive, free him postdebate analysis. A cnn special event, the abc news <\/a>presidential defeat tuesday at nine eastern on cnn. And streaming on max let's make. Some troubling as long as i agree. Let's give her a compliment. Good luck. To get out of my head with ryan understanding like it's time this tiny home trend <\/a>not for me. Now, this is more like it. 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Okay and take back what's yours? he could help you save i didn't have to spend my life trying to find my carlin mine <\/a>phoned me at an early age he was no question of what i wanted to be he was just a matter of how good i could get and how far would go rahm are calling is to build trucks so when you find your call nothing <\/a>can stop me do you from answering allergies with allegro? they won't stop me. That's because nothing beats allegro for the fastest non drowsy 24 hour allergy relief <\/a>shoes. A leg, grab me, started feeding buggy,<\/a> the farmer's dog, who lost so much weight. Precaution packs <\/a>makes it really easy to keep them lean and healthy in the morning, he flies up the stairs opposite ban my bad. In the past, he would not have been able to do any of those things. I'm oren liebermann at the pentagon this cnn tonight,<\/a> the justice department has announced new charges as the u. S. Government is working to expose what appears to be a sweeping effort by russia to interfere in the upcoming us it's election. The kremlin is accused of replacing troll farms and bhatt's of years past you remember that from 2016 with actual and pretty influential american voices in this election, the justice department is highlighting the money trail <\/a>leading from what the fed say <\/a>is the kremlin to a u. S. Based company, a u. S. Based company that is bank crawling some of those notable names in rightwing media that you'll see online these are american influencers who have millions of followers who often host wellknown republicans, including the former president of the united states <\/a>what they say sometimes can sound strikingly similar to russian state tv <\/a>this is psychotic. Ukraine is the enemy of this country. One of the greatest enemies of our nation right now is ukraine some of these. Voices make clear who they want to win in november trump <\/a>now represents something much bigger than, you know, your uncle's old republican they often brag about their ability to impact political discourse present trump calling qanon harris <\/a>communist kamala? yes. Who said to do that our chat prosecutors <\/a>don't claim that any of those people you just saw knew that the company tenant <\/a>media, was funded with money that was coming from russia. They've all described themselves as victims in this case, saying that they created their own content without editorial input <\/a>from anyone. But i should note today's indictment is another indictment today of a russian american political pundit <\/a>who was reportedly paid directly by russian state media <\/a>and also work directly with the russian government about his content by sources are experts in this stuff, donie o sullivan,<\/a> julia ioffe,<\/a> you both here tonight and obviously julia what do you make? give this shift of what we've seen from 2016 when it was a troll farm.<\/a> All of these bots to now trying to coopt real americans with what appears to be a pretty hefty russian budget well,<\/a> you have to keep evolving in asymmetrical war, right and i think the russians discovered quite a while ago that there's an actual ideological affinity among maga republicans <\/a>and the kremlin if you recall, tucker carlson <\/a>on the eve of russia's fullscale invasion of ukraine, said why are we fighting russia when it's a christian nationalist country led <\/a>by a white christian <\/a>nationalist leader who is fighting trans people, gay people, and the lgbt agenda. These should be our natural allies. And i think the the russian government realized that this was in fact true and we saw reporting memos that have come out of the kremlin and the various pr and political consulting firms they use that specifically say to target people like benny johnson, like tim pool <\/a>because of this ideological affinity that you don't actually have to feed them. Any of this. They are saying this on their own yeah. I mean, it feels like they almost maybe overpaid mr. People who would have echoed a lot of these talking points <\/a>anyway, and donie, people watching at home may say, okay, i don't know who that is. I don't know if benny johnson <\/a>is. I don't know who tim pool <\/a>they don't have always mainstream recognition when it comes to their names. But when it comes to reach an impact, you've been looking into this, how far does it go? yeah. Kaitlan, these guys have massive, huge audiences. I mean, they are essentially stars on social media,<\/a> on the far right in conservative twitter as such, i think we have a full screen. We can show where just between three of the guys who are tied up in this alleged russian operation,<\/a> benny johnson, tim pool, and dave rubin.<\/a> Just on youtube alone between them, they have about 7 million <\/a>subscribers. They are just reaching millions and millions of people every single day now, everybody including the three gentlemen you see there on screen, they say they deny that they knew anything about this. Indeed, the doj makes clear that they seemingly we're unwittingly coopted here as we have seen in the past, in terms of unwitting coopting americans doing russia's bidding, moscow's bidding for them and they're sometimes referred to as useful idiots. But reading through this indictment, it does begs the question, some of these guys are getting paid a lot of might. One person who is not identical the divide we haven't tied the the commentator to name, but one u. S. Commentator was getting paid about 5 million <\/a>a year just to make a few videos a month for this operation, to knock question are enough. Wonder where that money really is coming from these guys are lying i can curiosity i would say, most generous interpretation of us. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty remarkable to think they're getting paid that much and we'll talk about that more in a second. We've got lre if you're on standby, but i do want to ask you about what putin said today because we heard from him today, it was first time since this indictment was unsealed yesterday. It was essentially julie a comment <\/a>that was dripping with sarcasm, as he said that he is supporting vice president <\/a>harris in this election. He went on to say, biden told us to support her. So we're supporting her and then just to show you how much he is paying attention to u. S. Media coverage.<\/a> He invoked her laugh, which is obviously something that trump and vance <\/a>and a lot of republicans have made fun of when it, when it comes to the vice president, is there any reason you a russia expert,<\/a> would believe that putin does want harris to win this election over donald trump no, i don't think he wants harris to win it's the same he endorsed president biden endorsed president biden earlier. And it was just it was sarcasm. There have been times when he has talked about donald trump and how he's being unfairly prosecuted. And persecuted by the u. S. Justice department, that everybody in the whole world understands that he's a victim of the biden political machine <\/a>that listen, if you watch russian state tv, which is heavily controlled by the kremlin owned outright, buy it you will see stuff that looks a lot like fox and tropes that you see, you and i see all the time in rightwing media stuff <\/a>about camilla's laugh, stuff about her not being very bright, stuff about the lewd things that donald trump has retreated about her potentially using sexual favors to advance in her career. And so what we've seen actually in the last eight years since 2016 is you have this big feedback loop <\/a>between rightwingers here in washington and the kremlin friendly. And kremlin controlled press in russia and they all repeat and recycle the same he memes and it goes the other way to you see a lot of russian propagandists recycling what they hear american rightwingers say, not just the other way around. Julia, i afi donie o'sullivan. Thank you both. And we also have sandel arouri,<\/a> who was reported extensively on the rightwing ecosystem that joey was just talking about there. She has an excellent the book out on this called black pill,<\/a> how i witnessed the darkest corners of the internet come to life, poison society <\/a>and capture american politics a posttitle that, that really does say it all. And what donie was mentioning they're not asking questions when they're getting massive paychecks, like $5 million or $400,000 for a video i mean this was an ecosystem that created that environment where that happens and people don't ask questions, right? well, for a long time, there was a section of the far right, the right that was seeking a relationship with russia and they were having trouble getting money out of them in 2017 in charlottesville. He's altright marchers were shouting, russia is our friend, which seems like this bizarre thing for a bunch of racist to be talking about. But that was part of a yearslong effort. So in emails, i obtained from my book. All right. Leader richard spencer <\/a>and his patron bill regnery <\/a>wrote about a mission to moscow <\/a>in 2014. They had the idea that moscow might find them useful in making antiamerican and pro russian propaganda. They said that perhaps they could develop a relationship with the state then they said about trying to make those contacts, they organized a conference in budapest and hungary.<\/a> The featured speaker is going to be a russian nationalist, alexander dugin.<\/a> But at the last minute, the government declared that it was illegal. Spencer was detained and he is interrogated about his relationship to do you can then in 2018, regnery flies to st. Petersburg in meets with a commentator for czar grad.<\/a> That's a russian tv channel <\/a>that's on by an oligarch has under u. S. Sanction for years, they're pushing out ideas like that dui should leave nato that ukraine's fate country,<\/a> that american cultural hegemony <\/a>is a bad thing, and that russia has stopping it. And when you look at that and talk about you know, your time covering this and how it's infiltrated. Note republican conversations, what we've seen tenant media <\/a>specifically, it talks about you when you look at this company that's the company that's based in tennessee that was paying these people. They say unwittingly with the russian money that they were receiving. You look at the indictment. It was it was like 90% of tenant media <\/a>is funding funding came from this $10 from the russians according to this indictment there was a lot of money sloshing <\/a>around and i saw in june a guest on tim pool <\/a>show for ten and it was called the culture where it was richard spencer. So i called them today. I was like, what was it like? you called richard spencer today <\/a>and he said one of his main takeaways was all the money they were throwing around they flew him to the dc airport <\/a>that they picked him up in a fancy suv <\/a>who is driven to west virginia <\/a>where pools studio <\/a>is put up in a hotel. There are even construction workers <\/a>working on the skate park <\/a>that pool bought recently in the area tenant <\/a>didn't get all of its money from russia according to the indictment, but at least in spencer's is they had a big budget that's really remarkable. Lra i know you'll do more reporting on this will continue to follow this story. Thank you. Up next, israel's prime minister tonight <\/a>is dismissing the prospect of a hostage and ceasefire deal <\/a>as we are hearing more tonight from the family of hersh goldbergpolin,<\/a> who was murdered i need a vehicle excellent no streaming exclusively on max new central menopause supplements <\/a>help unpause life when symptoms posit with the multivitamin plus hot flash support daley z <\/a>for quality sleep <\/a>and an extra for focus and clarity.<\/a> Centrum powered by clinically studied and gradients. Why would that help players choose to sleep every smart i'd like to sleep cool and i like it warm and cozy and i really like it when we both get what we want. Number does that have to be cools and warrants on each side during our biggest sale of the year, say 50% i'm asleep number limited edition smart that shut down and sleep number store <\/a>near you hi, i'm jay jackson <\/a>for almost 20 years, abacus life <\/a>has been purchasing life insurance policies <\/a>from seniors. 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Switch today! prospects after day, as her $5 there's $50 instantly with cold tv news night <\/a>with abby phillip. Next on cnn closed captioning <\/a>is brought to you by handsfree skechers. Bob's for dogs, footwear. It's never been easier to put on your shoes and help pets and need at the same time with new handsfree skechers, bob's for dogs, slip and slip <\/a>in and go and they have already helped save over 2 million <\/a>pets. Tonight, the parents of hersh goldberg polin,<\/a> responded to a video that was released by hamas showing their son who was murdered by hamas in captivity beforehand.<\/a> They said in a statement i'm quoting them now, this must serve as an immediate wakeup call <\/a>to the world to take action today,<\/a> to secure the release of the remaining 101 hostages before it is too late. No other family should go through what our family and the families of the other recently executed hostages have endured. This is coming as the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu <\/a>has offered his clearest statement yet on whether a season fire and hostage <\/a>deal in gaza is in the making hamas is not there with a deal. There's not a deal in the making. Unfortunately, still hasn't happened that comment there is in stark contrast, what we're hearing from the white house,<\/a> president biden's own hopeful messaging,<\/a> just this weekend this time to time our source tonight <\/a>on this is israel's ambassador to the united nations,<\/a> danny danon,<\/a> ambassador. We've had you on here in new york. Great to have you, netanyahu says there's no deal in the making. I mean, that's not what we are hearing from the president, from the secretary of state.<\/a> What is the reality? we want to lower expectations because we have experienced with hamas in may the u. S. Proposed the deal. Who said yes, hamas said no in august, another deal with proposed modified by the u. S we agreed to the deal. Hamas said no, they rejected all do that will propose that's why we don't want to re the expectations, but we are still continue to send the head of the mossad and other officials to negotiate. We will not stop with that. Hopefully we will reach an agreement, but with hamas you never know. Yeah, but we keep hearing. Hopefully we'll reach an agreement and i when you hear secretary blinken <\/a>said today 90% there on a deal they're 90%, they're blinken repeated that again today netanyahu <\/a>says there's nothing in the making. What is the discrepancy? there was supposed to believe when we are grateful for the support from the officials from the u. S. Trying really hard. But the reality on the ground and look what happened the last week you know, the exit you did six hostages who stayed alive for 11 months in the tunnels. They shot him in the back of the head in one american in. Now they're always asking for more prisoners to be released. So my feeling that every time we get closer to reach an agreement hamas will come up with another excuse. Why not to sign an agreement. But is it just hamas? i mean, obviously they've been changing the terms of this ever since the first ceasefire last november.<\/a> But but, you know, there's obviously also very extensive reporting in israeli media <\/a>about netanyahu also changing his demands, including for the film philadelphi corridor <\/a>to be maintained by the idf. So is israel also changing its request? so without going into details, we made the heavy compromises when i say heavy compromises, it means we are willing to release terrorists who murdered israelis we are willing to make steps on the ground in gaza. So i think we prove that we are willing to pay a heavy price because we understand that the every day the lives of the hostages is in danger or evade yesterday in the security council,<\/a> we are the first debate since october 7 <\/a>at the u. N. About the hostages. And i read the testimony of the there's one is who came back from gaza the raping, the torture. We know what's happening there. So we are willing to pay a price when it comes to that though. I mean, the most powerful comments on this have been from the families of the hostages themselves. You just heard from hersh's parents and omer neutra,<\/a> his parents. He's an israeli american <\/a>hostage whose parents said this today about that comment from netanyahu saying it's hamas's fault. There is no deal. This is what they had to say i would expect from the prime minister <\/a>to say instead of just dismissing whatever's on the table and blaming it on hamas to say that he is committed to making a deal that will work and not just dismiss it, you know, lightheartedly like it, like it is just crossed. We know the gotta be a deal with the devil.<\/a> Do the deal, bring the hostages and let her do what you need to make sure that israel is secure, not on the back of my child. What does israel say to families like a mayors who say the imperative to save our son, to save these other hostages supersedes any kind of other consideration for this war i think anyone would do the same, will fight for those sounds and the kids and we understand that we are doing everything we can. But unfortunately, we have no rational player to negotiate with many of my colleagues say, well, let's have a deal. But when you have seen well, wants to stay alive, wants to continue to control gaza,<\/a> wants to have the hostages around him. It's not up to us. So i think we should continue both with the military pressure <\/a>and we will not stop kaitlan. We will continue until we will bring them back home. It's an altar pressure <\/a>working. I mean, i was in israel the last hostage release <\/a>and ceasefire agreement <\/a>that was last november. It's been almost a year since october 7 <\/a>now so it's working, but it's not enough. We were able to release hostages. But it's not enough. We are under third in order to bring those who are still alive, we need to make a deal that why we'll continue to negotiate a deal. But i think hamas should realize that we are determined to bring them back home and for now they'll still hoping that maybe we'll be able to stay alive. You said you wanted to downplay expectations. Does that mean a deal is not happening in the near future? you know, i speak with the families before the debate at the u. N. I. Spoke with many families and i always do in a situation that i don't want to wait expectations because larry, the headlines and they believe at maybe tomorrow they will have the lavon coming for shabbat with them. It's not happening so soon. It's complicated. We are dealing with a terrorist organization. They don't come with demands that we can meet a maybe and i'm afraid that is the case. They really don't want to have a deal because they know that at the end <\/a>of the day, if they would release all the hostages, they will have no bargaining chips <\/a>in order to stay alive. Ambassador danny,<\/a> do now keep us updated. Thank you very thank you very much. And thank you all so much for joining us this busy hour cnn newsnight <\/a>with abby phillip starts now","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia801909.us.archive.org\/11\/items\/CNNW_20240906_010000_The_Source_With_Kaitlan_Collins\/CNNW_20240906_010000_The_Source_With_Kaitlan_Collins.thumbs\/CNNW_20240906_010000_The_Source_With_Kaitlan_Collins_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240906T12:35:10+00:00"}