Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622 : v

CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings June 22, 2024

Options off the table except the economy of iran will be fortified, theyll be able to withstand sanctions in an enhanced way, and that the ability to reassemble this International Coalition will be very difficult as the countries will be doing business and reengageing with iran. Do you agree with that assessment . Or do you conclude that thats a that some have suggested . Third, you concluded mr. Secretary this agreement makes our world, our allies, including israel, and the region safer. I have no doubt you have concluded that is correct based on your best assessment. If you would just provide for us kind of some thinking of why it is that the current israeli leadership does not see it that way. You know, as they obviously have sort of come to a different conclusion. Why do you think that is . Four, after 15 years, iran most have suggested, is a Nuclear Threshold state. But that they must negotiate comprehensive safeguards again with the iaea. And whether or not i know theres been some discussion, have you seen those, but do we have some ability to influence what that agreement is . Do we have any ability to influence its content or monitor their compliance Going Forward . Thats between iran and the iaea. Fifth, is the likelihood of an International Consensus remaining if a deal is rejected . What happens if the deal is rejected . Some have suggested actually some top level israeli officials suggested iran will comply with the terms of the agreement. Well get relief from other partners, and the u. S. Will be isolated. Others have suggested iran will rush toward the development of a Nuclear Weapon with no constraints. Is there any reason to believe iran would comply with the terms of the deal if its rejected and not proceed quickly to a Nuclear Weapon . If the weapons six, if weapons are transfers to hezbollah during the fiveyear period, which is a violation of the u. N. Resolution but also a violation of the interim agreement, would that constitute a violation and cause snapback . In these intervening five years, if arms are sold to hezbollah . And finally, what will happen to the u. N. Security resolution specifically the listing of the arms embargo and the provisions if congress does not approve the agreement . Do those remain enact . And the last question, secretary lew, they described the process in which noncompliance in the agreement might result in sanctions snapping back to the u. N. , but this would only work in major violations. How would the administration treat minor violations . I invite, maybe to start with you, secretary lew. The ones you cant get to, i appreciate your answers and thank you for the work you have done. Ill start with the snapback question. We have reserved the right for snapback in whole or part. Obviously, if theres a small technical violation, that will not bring back the whole sanctions regime. The goal would be to get them back in compliance. If theres a need to make it clear that violations that are small will get a response we have the option of putting some of the smaller sanctions back into place. If theres a major violation, we have the option of putting, of course, all of our unilateral sanctions and ultimately going back to the u. N. For the International Sanctions as well. We have all the authorities we need to do that. Arizona. Thank you. Mr. Secretary you said you said no country would accept anytime anywhere inspections, but i submit iran is not a normal country. Iran is a terrorist state under a heavy International Sanctions. Its neither got the moral nor the geopolitical equal of the United States. Or our negotiating partners and i think we have to stop treating it like one. It aspires to be a regional power, the u. S. Right now is the only world superpower. And my question is this really the best deal we could get given the fact that we seem to have most of the cards . And we have had most of the cards since these sanctions were imposed. Secretary moniz, you said the deal includes anytime anywhere in the sense of a welldefined process and a welldefined end date. But all that depends on iran acting in good faith. We shouldnt make the assumption because iran has been stonewalling the iaea on the military dimensions while claiming to cooperate for years. Theyre doing that as we speak. First, the process is not just 24 days. If iran balks, its a minimum of 24 days. Before the clock starts the iaea has to tell iran about the concerns about a particular site and they have to provide an explanation. But theres no time limit. Does anyone believe that iran will respond immediately for the back and forth discussion for negotiations wont take place . Only after these delays in the high barriers are taken care of at best, maybe can the iaea make a formal request and start the 24day clock. But at the end of the 24 days, theres no punishment if iran says no. Instead, the matter goes to the dispute resolution mechanism which has lots of opportunities for delay and more barriers. Does anybody believe that the p5 plus 1, not this administration and certainly not the europeans will derail the entire agreement by imposing sanctions and restarting Irans Nuclear program just because iran is denying access to one sensitive site . More likely, there will be overwhelming pressure for a compromise. One thats no more substantive than whats in the final agreement. Kicking the can down the road is always one option. Its worked in iran for years. I think all of this led cia former director Michael Hayden to warn in front of this commitsy that the deal is taking inspections from the technical level and put it at the political level. And i just think thats a formula for chaos, obfuskcationobfuscation, ambiguity, and doubt. I think on the 24 days were kidding ourselves if we they think that the 24 days is the total length of the deal. I think it could be much much longer. And i would like to know how ultimately were going to deal once we do find infractions. My second question is of all the sanctions to be lifted in the Iran Nuclear Agreement, few are more significant than those against a shadowy 100 billion organization belonging to the islamic supreme leader. The u. S. Delisting the headquarters for the execution of the imams order will pump 10s of billions of dollars into the supreme leteaders personal coffer bolstering irans ability to promote its agenda abroad. Its estimated hell gain access to as much as 95 billion. The u. S. Treasury designated ico and 37 subsidiaries in june 2013 noting its purpose is to generate and control off the books investments shielded from the view of the iranian people and their regulators. Explain why ico will be designated . Congressman, im going to turn to ernie for the first part of that because its important to understand the 24 days. You are, i say respectfully, misreading the 24 days. By the way, thats an outside period of time. It could be less than that. Its very possible it could be 18 days or something. But ernie, why dont you discuss that . First you started out with the question of iran being unique in terms of verification. Thats why we have the verification system in this agreement that is unparallels. This goes beyond what anyone else has accepted because of the distrust built up over iran. The iaea can cut that off any time by declaring their request for access, and then the 24day clock runs. It is not the beginning of dispute resolution. Its the end of dispute resolution. In fact, at that point, theyre in material breach. You asked about would there be a response if it was, quote, only one site . Well, im going to turn it over to my colleagues, but i want to emphasize in the snapback it says in whole or in part. So a graded response is possible. Going to go to mr. Alan grayson. Mr. Secretary i have five minutes. I have ten short questions. Im hoping for ten short answers. Will implementation of the agreement increase irans support of terrorism . You want these . Yes. We have no way to know. I presume in some places possibly. Only in the sense that they are committed to certain things that we interpret as terrorism, they dont, and were going to continue to conflict on those issues. All right. If the agreement is implemented, will iran in fact allow inspections at all its military sites . They have to. If they dont, theyre in material breach of the agreement and well snap back the sanctions. Or take other action if necessary. If the agreement is implemented, do you think theres a significant risk that iran will cheat on the agreement and develop a Nuclear Weapon secretly . I dont think theyre able to develop a Nuclear Weapon secretly because our Intelligence Community tells us with the regime we have established here, it is physically impossible for them to create an entirely covert secondary fuel cycle. And we have a sufficient intrusive inspection mechanism and capacity on their fuel cycle that they cant do it. You cant make a bomb at 3. 67 enrichment for 15 years. You cant make a bomb with 300 kilograms of a stockpile for 15 years. You cant make a bomb if you cant go enrich and move forward without our knowing it. And we have submitted and we believe with clarity that we will know what theyre doing before they can do that. If an agreement is implemented, is there a significant risk that iran will adhere to it for a year, lets say, then pocket the 50 billion and then violate the agreement and build a bomb . Again they cant do that. Because the red flags that would go off, the bells and whistles that would start chiming as a result of any movement away from what they have to do. They have to live for 15 years under this extraordinary constraint of a limitation on the number of centrifuges that can spin. On a limitation, and there are indeed, on 24 7 inspections. On daytoday accountability with Live Television with respect to their centrifuge production and so forth. So it is not possible for them during that period, in one year two years five years to sort of make this decision and stiff us. If they did, in some way if they just radically said, you know, were going to change this whole deal and were breaking out of here then we have snapback of all the sanctions with the full support of the International Community, which would then be absolutely in agreement that they have to do it, and we have the military option if that was necessary. But briefly on a followup, isnt it true in that scenario they would then have 50 billion in their pockets they wouldnt have . No, i doubt after one or two years they would. They have investments in their economy and they would be moving, but you have to look at this in the real world. Here they are trying to attract investment. Frantz, germany, china, all kinds of countries. Is the your presumption that a country that has destroyed its stockpile, reduced its centrifuges by two thirds put concrete in its culand ria, totally stripped the ability to do fissile material, that that country and is now seeking investment and trying to build its economy, with a population of 50 of the country under the age of 30 who want jobs and a future, is it your presumption that theyre just going to throw this all to the wind and go create a Nuclear Weapon after saying well strip our program down and wont . I dont think its going to happen. What about after 15 years . If the agreement is implemented, is iran in fact likely to build a Nuclear Weapon after 15 years at the end of the deal . All i can say to you is that they cant do it without our knowing what theyre doing. Because after 15 years, they have to live by the additional protocol. They have to live by the modified coat 3. 1. They have to live with inspectors, 150 additional inspectors are going to be going into iran as a consequence of this agreement. And those inspectors are going to be given 24 7 access to declared facilities. So if iran suddenly starts to enrich more, which we will know all of the bells and whistles go off. The International Community would be all over that with questions and restraints. My time is almost up. I want to ask you this. May i just this is the agreement that codifies a permanent ban on Nuclear Weapons in iran and we have to take thank you mr. Secretary. I want to ask this one additional question, and i had one more, but thats the way it go. Tell me exactly what you expect will happen if the agreement is rejected . Specifically, theres been some suggestion that iran will adhere to it anyway. Sanctions will remain in place anyway if the agreement is rejected. I heard that for the first time last night when i met with an israeli friend who suggested that might be possible. Its physically impossible. Explain why. Ill tell you why, because in the legislation that you have passed, which you have given yourself the ability to vote you have also put in an inability for the president to waive the sanctions. So there will be no waivering of the sanctions. Theres no way for deal to work because our lifting of sanctions is critical to the ability of other countries to invest in work and critical obviously for iran to get any money. So nothing works for them unless this deal is accepted. We have a lot of members who still want to ask questions. We need to go to tom marino. Mr. Secretary of state, we all know what iran has done as far as giving weapons to terrorists. To do irans dirty work. What will stop iran from giving Nuclear Material or even more weapons to terrorist organizations . And how is nuclear how is a nuclear iran going to make the world and the United States a safer place. More particular how is a nuclear iran going to make american citizens feel safer . Well the opposite of your question is to suggest that somehow you or we can prevent them from having any Nuclear Program at all. Now, you all have a responsibility to show us how thats going to happen. Im going to show you how im going to show you right now how its going to happen, mr. Secretary. You answered my question. Im going to show you how thats going to happen. Im going to take secretary lews words. The sanctions have crippled iran. If we ratchet them up, and get our allies to ratchet those sanctions up, you can bring iran to its knees where it cannot financially function. Thats how to do it let me just tell you, i suggest i really suggest very respectfully that you spend some time with the intel community. Ask the people who have spent a closely whether or not they agree with your judgment that an increase in sanctions will in fact bring iran to its knees. They do not they do not believe there is a capitulation theory here. And you will not sanction iran out of its commitment to what it has a right to. Iran is an npt country. There are 189 of them. And we have a right to protect the american citizens from this disaster, this country having Nuclear Power. Sanctions have worked. Are you going to retract any statements made by secretary lew and anyone else who has said it would cripple them, it would take them years to get servicing again. If youre going to quote me, let me speak for myself. I quoted exactly what you said. Cripple iran and it will take them years to recover. So if we up the sanctions the other part of what i said is the reason it was crippling is because we had international cooperation. We have worked very hard to get that international cooperation. The parties that we worked with reached an agreement here. Look who we work with. We work with china and we work with russia. The people who want iran to be in that position because it jeopardizes the United States. The power of our sanctions is not going to have the affect i disagree with you. The economists disagree with you. Individuals i have read article after article on disagree with you. Congressman, as we have said again and again, and i want to repeat it now. We are absolutely committed that iran will never get the material for one bomb. Not for one bomb. But you didnt answer my original question, mr. Mr. Secretary. My original question is, how is that going to make the United States citizens safer . Let me tell you. Ill tell you exactly how it makes the United States citizens safer. Because if iran fully implements the agreement we have come to iran will not be able to make a Nuclear Weapon. And we have created an agreement which has sufficient level of intrusive inspection and verification. That we are confident in our ability to be able to deliver on preventing them from having enough fissile material for the one bomb. Now, mind you we have started in a place where they already had enough fissile material for ten to 12 bombs. We have already rolled that back. And that made america safer. By the way, it also made israel and our friends and allies in the region safer. Everything we have done thus far in the interim agreement, which has been enforced for two years has made the world safer. Im going to reclaim my time. Youre repeating i understand. I have 40 seconds left. If you repeal this deal, thats not making america safer. I hope youre right, because if not, you, the executive branch in congress, is going to have a disaster on our hands, and we need to be accountable for the United States. I want to ask an important question. Secretary kerry this is an extremely important topic for the future of this countrys security and the safety of the American People as well as our allies in the middle east. I would first like to ask you a simple yes or no question. In accordance with the office of mampg management and budget as well as the National Archives directive as well as state department policy, have you ever used a nongovernment and personal email account to conduct official business . No. Thats my business on a government account. We need to go to dr. Ber era. I want to thank the wenlsz witnesses. Im going to go through a series of questions as i try to make my decision with regards to this deal. Secretary kerry, in multiple times you have said this, the negotiations had one objective. To make sure they cannot get a Nuclear Weapon

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