Transcripts For CSPAN Housing Secretary Carson Testifies At

The committee will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized at any time and all members will skr five legislative days to submit to the chair for inclusion in the record. Entitled the future of housing in america oversight of the department of housing in urban development. I recognize myself for three and a half minutes to give an Opening Statement. Today we welcome the 17th sick 17the secretary secretary of the department of housing and urban development. Welcome, sir. At least in one respect he may be among the most qualified individuals to ever serve as hud secretary. Secretary carson was raised by a single mother who had a third grade education. He grew up in communities who grew up in boston. Not only does he understand poverty personally but he understands what it takes to escape it. He is passionate about helping others escape as well. He also understands that huds approach to eliminating poverty too often fails and thankfully he is committed to changing it. He is committed to changing it. When it was created 52 years ago hud was intended to be the main weapon in the war on poverty. 1. 6 trillion later the poverty rate remains unchanged. Hud has failed to live up to the aspirations of its birth. I do not it is invaluable part of our social safety net. But i remind all that for the ablebodied there is no bet are Affordable Housing program than a growing committee that creates better jobs and brighter tomorrows. After suffering from eight years of bod Public Policy leading to a sluggish committee that has been growing at barely half of the historic norm working americans deserve fundamental tax returns. There hasnt been any significant tax reform in a century that hasnt groan tax revenues. This growth erased a 5. 6 billion deficit and turned it into a surplus. Even going back to the coolidge era, a series of tax relief resulted in annual average exhibition growth of 4. 7 . We have seen it time and time again when we remove the bush dsrdens and allow them to take more of what they earned we unleashed to create opportunity for everyone. Its not economic theory. Its economic history. Its the very embodiment of Affordable Housing. I also wonder, how can one be for Affordable Housing yet oppose allowing working americans to keep more of their paycheck . So i look forward to hearing more of the new vision for hud and the programs he and his team are beginning to reform. I now yield to the Ranking Member for an Opening Statement. Thank you mr. Chairman. America is currently in the midst of the worst housing crisis we ever experienced. It is hitting our lowest income families the hardest. According to the low Income Coalition the United States has a shortage of 7. 2 million or extremely low income households. It is hitting our lowest income our country is also at a virtual standstill when it comes to reducing homelessness. In some parts of the country homelessness has reached crisis proportions. We also face homeowner ship challenges with minority homeownership rates continuing to lag even as the Housing Market recovers. In the face of Housing Needs President Trump chose dr. Ben carson to serve as head as urban development. The secretary of hud is supposed to be at the forefront to expand access to safe, decent and Affordable Housing and enforce housing rights. Housing is the foundation on which our entire society is built. It is a flat form for economic mobility and well being. It is a crucial part of our national economy. It is a necessary human right. We need strong leadership and a bold vision for hud in order to expand access to Affordable Housing in this country. Unfortunately i have seen nothing to indicate that secretary carson is up to the challenge. Secretary carson has expressed views that are deeply alarming to his role as hud such as describing poverty as more of a choice than anything else and saying he doesnt think Public Housing should be too comfortable. His few actions so far as hud secretary are deeply troubling as well. Secretary carson has supported a budget that slashes funding for critical Housing Programs and proposes harmful rent increases on some of the most vulnerable American Families. He has also moved to roll back obama initiatives with little or no explanation. So i am very much looking forward to hearing from secretary carson today about his actions so far and his plans for serving our nations most vulnerable families. I thank you mr. Chairman and yield back the balance of my time. We recognize mr. Duffy for one and a half minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Over here. Right here. Its hard to find people. I dont know if its secretary or doctor. I think you can tell youll be in for an interesting hearing based on the Opening Statement of the Ranking Member. I would note that poor people have been worse off over the last eight years and minorities have fared worse than the rest of the population. I would argue that with a bigger government you got middle class. Poor people get poorer. Rich people get richer. It happens whenever you implement these policies. To go back to a system that gives people a hand up that helps move them, one of the greatest Brain Surgeons is the american story. Im looking forward to your testimony today. I know you have a lot of reforms you want to discuss with us. Im looking forward to hearing that. I would also like to hear your vision on the prior secretary, when they would look at success of hud, success was viewed in the realm of how many people do we get into the system . Not how many people can i get in. What is the measure of success for hud. Back is up so i look so i yield back. The time has expired. The future of housing in america strikes me. Thank you for being here. I have opening comments but i may be of greater value if i just tell you that i sat down with shaq to tell him how his father in law and i grew up. We grew up two blocks apart. I ended up getting the opportunity to move out faster than they did. My father said the money, but a lot, but a house, moved the house and i mentioned to you and i always think what would have happened if nobody had helped my mother and father as they were struggling to make a living for four children . I have Three Sisters all with degrees, one with a phd. What wouldve happened if they had ignored us . Housing is important to me. I yield back. The chair recognizes the chair for one minute. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im glad we are having this hearing. Im glad youre here. The condition of americas cities and towns is a subject thats the jurisdiction of your department. I think in neither case or some time to be fair to you preceding your entry into this position that subject has not gotten nearly the attention that it should. Unfortunately for decades important investment in cities and towns, the home program have faced really deep cuts. I grew up in flint, just around the same time you were growing up in detroit. We had a similar childhood experience. A lot of people know flint now because of the terrible crisis i grew up in that it is facing, coming out of the poisoning. The truth behind clinton story if it was on the brink of insolvency because the state of michigan and the federal government had eliminated essential support for development of those places. Im anxious to hear how you can square your suggestions to cut further those programs with the sworn oath you took. Time of the gentleman has expired. Today we welcome honorable ben carson. It is the first time he has appeared before the committee. Dr. Ben carson was sworn in on march 2, 2017. He earned a bachelors degree from yale and received his md from university of michigan medical school. Previously secretary carson served as director at Johns Hopkins childrens center. Without objection the witnesss written statement will be made part of the record. Youre recognized to give an oral presentation. I dont think the microphone is on. If you can turn the microphone on. The red light is on. It is on now. Sec. Carson Ranking Member waters, thank you for inviting me to discuss what we do at housing and urban development. Texas, florida, georgia and u. S. Virgin islands. Hud team is coordinating with our territory yall and local Agency Partners providing Housing Solutions for survivors and helping hud assisted clients and fha ensured borrowers. Hud will play a key role in Recovery Efforts in these disaster impacted regions as they rebuild. Helping these communities is and will remain a priority for me and this administration. America has changed greatly since hud was established as part of johnsons society half a century ago. We must learn to evolve with the country. Many Americans Still struggle to find Affordable Housing. Chronic homelessness continues to plague tens of thousands of our country men and many millions remain mired in poverty rather than being guide on a path out of it. History has made clear that spending more taxpayer dollars does not necessarily create better outcomes. We must constantly evaluate to ensure we are delivering services effectively and efficiently with the best practices and technologies. Since i arrived at hud in march it has been my mission to employ the wealth of knowledge held by career staff and remain careful stewards of taxpayer dollars. Our team has outlined a bold the wealth of knowledge held by plan for constitutional reform and improvement that will better serve all americans. Its called the Forward Initiative. The policy elements of a Forward Initiative each fall under what initiative each fall under what we have named the three rs, reimagine how hud works, restore the American Dream and rethink American Communities. First reimagining how hud works refers to internal processes, working conditions and training. The goal of every improvement made at hud is to provide Better Service to those. Getting americans back on their feet and permanently improving their lives. Of course hud is committed to continuing to serve those families that might always need someone to lean ochblt additionally we have an opportunity to eliminate veterans, homelessness in america. They sacrificed for our country and deserve all of the support we can give. And finally we need to rethink American Communities and how we can make them thrive. Expanding through partnerships live and Healthy Homes free from hazardous and other business substances. As a doctor i have seen firsthand the tragic consequences of childhood exposure to dangerous building materials. Ridding our homes of these hazards is a worthy cause with great benefits to future generations. While pursuing its mission to provide safe, decent and Affordable Housing, the hud team is also cognizant of its vital duty to be a good steward of taxpayer dollars. The president has directed federal agencies to take special care against burdening American Families and their businesses with unnecessary and expensive regulations. Hud is reviewing its existing regulations to assess their compliance costs, reduce Regulatory Burden and build a more efficient and effective agency. Let me close by reiterating the interest of our administration and my personal interest in working with this committee on Housing Finance reform. Hud will be an active participant in this critical dialogue because of our fundamental Housing Mission and because our fha Mortgage Insurance Program and our ginny may Mortgage Backed security guarantee. Reform should be built on shared goals of ensuring a well functioning Housing Finance system that provides access for credit worthy borrowers who are ready to own a home. Expands the role of the private sector and reduces overall taxpayer exposure. Thank you for inviting me to testify today and i welcome any questions. Chair recognizes himself for five minutes for questions. Secretary carson, my colleague, mr. Duffy, alluded in his Opening Statement to kind of metrics of success. And there are some who view the success of hud to be tied to the size of its budget or the number of people who have section 8 vouchers. But i am curious, does hud have or is hud developing any different metric . I mean, how many people actually get to escape poverty . How many ablebodied individuals are able to escape poverty to move beyond section 8 housing and maybe at one point enjoy the dream of Home Ownership . Does hud have any way to measure this . Are we looking at this wrong . Should there be a different metric of success for what youre doing . There have been a number of studies over the course of decades. And as was mentioned in your Opening Statement, there hasnt been a tremendous amount of progress there. This is not because the people who have been there have had bad intentions. I think they have very good intentions. But we do have to look at the fact that were not making a great deal with progress with poverty. And thats why we are looking to reform this whole thing. And really looking more at the person than at the housing complex. Housing is a component of developing people. We have to recognize that we only have 330 Million People in this country. We have to compete in thefuture with china and india, who have four times that many people. That means, if we dont develop all of our people, we are not going to be able to keep up in the future. Its as simple as that. We have to start thinking in terms of Wholistic Development of people and communities. How do we enable people to climb that ladder of opportunity. How do we incentivize them to climb that ladder of opportunity so that they become part of the strength of this country. Part of Affordable Housing is obviously tied to our Housing Finance system. Recently Federal Reserve governor Jerome Powell said, if congress does not enact reforms over the next few years we are at risk of settling for the status quo, a government dominated Mortgage Market with insufficient private capital to protect taxpayers and insufficient competition to drive innovation. Do you agree or disagree with governor powells assessment . There is no question that we need to engage in a serious discussion about finance reform. A lot of progress has been made, by the way. Ten years ago we were talking about how important it is to get everybody into Home Ownership. And again, i am not criticizing the people who did that. But i dont think they realized that to put somebody in a home that they cant afford is not really doing them a favor. They lose the home. They lose their credit. About how important it is to get they lose their future opportunities. We have to learn from those kinds of situations. And innovation is the hallmark of america. Mr. Secretary, can we reform our Housing Finance system without reforming fha, which is obviously under hud . Fha, as you probably know, the largest guarantor of mortgages in the world. So its an essential part of it and needs to be reformed as well. Well, historically the mission of fha was to support firsttime and lowincome lowtomoderate income families. And it had a small footprint in the market. Now it has a very large footprint in the market and, in many areas of the u. S. , the fha loan limits are the same as the conventional market, 636,150 in socalled highcost areas. At least where i come from, only the top wageearners can afford a mortgage of 636,000. Do you agree that establishing a home price or loan limit more in line, say, with the median home price in the area will better serve the target customer for fha and get it refocused on low to moderate income and firsttime home buyers . Thank you for that question. If one looks at the actual statistics and looks at the bell curve, you know, 95 of the mortgages fall in the 200,000 range. On the very tips there are going to be very low ones and very high ones. So i tend to want to focus on the large group and not on the outliers. Its very, very rare that we deal with a 636,000 mortgage. Thank you, mr. Secretary. I now recognize the Ranking Member for five minutes. Thank you very much. I had intended to start to talk about the housing crisis that we have, but since the president was busy tweeting this morning and you referred to huds role in dealing with the hurricane disasters and what you and the administration are doing, this morning trump threatened to abandon puerto rico Recovery Efforts. President trump served notice thursday that he may pull back federal relief workers from puerto rico effectively threatening to abandon the u. S. Territory amid a staggering humanitarian crisis in the aftermath of hurricane maria. In a trio of tweets, he wrote, we cannot keep fema, the military, and the Opening Statement<\/a>. Today we welcome the 17th sick 17the secretary secretary of the department of housing and urban development. Welcome, sir. At least in one respect he may be among the most qualified individuals to ever serve as hud secretary. Secretary carson was raised by a single mother who had a third grade education. He grew up in communities who grew up in boston. Not only does he understand poverty personally but he understands what it takes to escape it. He is passionate about helping others escape as well. He also understands that huds approach to eliminating poverty too often fails and thankfully he is committed to changing it. He is committed to changing it. When it was created 52 years ago hud was intended to be the main weapon in the war on poverty. 1. 6 trillion later the poverty rate remains unchanged. Hud has failed to live up to the aspirations of its birth. I do not it is invaluable part of our social safety net. But i remind all that for the ablebodied there is no bet are Affordable Housing<\/a> program than a growing committee that creates better jobs and brighter tomorrows. After suffering from eight years of bod Public Policy<\/a> leading to a sluggish committee that has been growing at barely half of the historic norm working americans deserve fundamental tax returns. There hasnt been any significant tax reform in a century that hasnt groan tax revenues. This growth erased a 5. 6 billion deficit and turned it into a surplus. Even going back to the coolidge era, a series of tax relief resulted in annual average exhibition growth of 4. 7 . We have seen it time and time again when we remove the bush dsrdens and allow them to take more of what they earned we unleashed to create opportunity for everyone. Its not economic theory. Its economic history. Its the very embodiment of Affordable Housing<\/a>. I also wonder, how can one be for Affordable Housing<\/a> yet oppose allowing working americans to keep more of their paycheck . So i look forward to hearing more of the new vision for hud and the programs he and his team are beginning to reform. I now yield to the Ranking Member<\/a> for an Opening Statement<\/a>. Thank you mr. Chairman. America is currently in the midst of the worst housing crisis we ever experienced. It is hitting our lowest income families the hardest. According to the low Income Coalition<\/a> the United States<\/a> has a shortage of 7. 2 million or extremely low income households. It is hitting our lowest income our country is also at a virtual standstill when it comes to reducing homelessness. In some parts of the country homelessness has reached crisis proportions. We also face homeowner ship challenges with minority homeownership rates continuing to lag even as the Housing Market<\/a> recovers. In the face of Housing Needs<\/a> President Trump<\/a> chose dr. Ben carson to serve as head as urban development. The secretary of hud is supposed to be at the forefront to expand access to safe, decent and Affordable Housing<\/a> and enforce housing rights. Housing is the foundation on which our entire society is built. It is a flat form for economic mobility and well being. It is a crucial part of our national economy. It is a necessary human right. We need strong leadership and a bold vision for hud in order to expand access to Affordable Housing<\/a> in this country. Unfortunately i have seen nothing to indicate that secretary carson is up to the challenge. Secretary carson has expressed views that are deeply alarming to his role as hud such as describing poverty as more of a choice than anything else and saying he doesnt think Public Housing<\/a> should be too comfortable. His few actions so far as hud secretary are deeply troubling as well. Secretary carson has supported a budget that slashes funding for critical Housing Program<\/a>s and proposes harmful rent increases on some of the most vulnerable American Families<\/a>. He has also moved to roll back obama initiatives with little or no explanation. So i am very much looking forward to hearing from secretary carson today about his actions so far and his plans for serving our nations most vulnerable families. I thank you mr. Chairman and yield back the balance of my time. We recognize mr. Duffy for one and a half minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Over here. Right here. Its hard to find people. I dont know if its secretary or doctor. I think you can tell youll be in for an interesting hearing based on the Opening Statement<\/a> of the Ranking Member<\/a>. I would note that poor people have been worse off over the last eight years and minorities have fared worse than the rest of the population. I would argue that with a bigger government you got middle class. Poor people get poorer. Rich people get richer. It happens whenever you implement these policies. To go back to a system that gives people a hand up that helps move them, one of the greatest Brain Surgeons<\/a> is the american story. Im looking forward to your testimony today. I know you have a lot of reforms you want to discuss with us. Im looking forward to hearing that. I would also like to hear your vision on the prior secretary, when they would look at success of hud, success was viewed in the realm of how many people do we get into the system . Not how many people can i get in. What is the measure of success for hud. Back is up so i look so i yield back. The time has expired. The future of housing in america strikes me. Thank you for being here. I have opening comments but i may be of greater value if i just tell you that i sat down with shaq to tell him how his father in law and i grew up. We grew up two blocks apart. I ended up getting the opportunity to move out faster than they did. My father said the money, but a lot, but a house, moved the house and i mentioned to you and i always think what would have happened if nobody had helped my mother and father as they were struggling to make a living for four children . I have Three Sisters<\/a> all with degrees, one with a phd. What wouldve happened if they had ignored us . Housing is important to me. I yield back. The chair recognizes the chair for one minute. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im glad we are having this hearing. Im glad youre here. The condition of americas cities and towns is a subject thats the jurisdiction of your department. I think in neither case or some time to be fair to you preceding your entry into this position that subject has not gotten nearly the attention that it should. Unfortunately for decades important investment in cities and towns, the home program have faced really deep cuts. I grew up in flint, just around the same time you were growing up in detroit. We had a similar childhood experience. A lot of people know flint now because of the terrible crisis i grew up in that it is facing, coming out of the poisoning. The truth behind clinton story if it was on the brink of insolvency because the state of michigan and the federal government had eliminated essential support for development of those places. Im anxious to hear how you can square your suggestions to cut further those programs with the sworn oath you took. Time of the gentleman has expired. Today we welcome honorable ben carson. It is the first time he has appeared before the committee. Dr. Ben carson was sworn in on march 2, 2017. He earned a bachelors degree from yale and received his md from university of michigan medical school. Previously secretary carson served as director at Johns Hopkins<\/a> childrens center. Without objection the witnesss written statement will be made part of the record. Youre recognized to give an oral presentation. I dont think the microphone is on. If you can turn the microphone on. The red light is on. It is on now. Sec. Carson Ranking Member<\/a> waters, thank you for inviting me to discuss what we do at housing and urban development. Texas, florida, georgia and u. S. Virgin islands. Hud team is coordinating with our territory yall and local Agency Partners<\/a> providing Housing Solutions<\/a> for survivors and helping hud assisted clients and fha ensured borrowers. Hud will play a key role in Recovery Efforts<\/a> in these disaster impacted regions as they rebuild. Helping these communities is and will remain a priority for me and this administration. America has changed greatly since hud was established as part of johnsons society half a century ago. We must learn to evolve with the country. Many Americans Still<\/a> struggle to find Affordable Housing<\/a>. Chronic homelessness continues to plague tens of thousands of our country men and many millions remain mired in poverty rather than being guide on a path out of it. History has made clear that spending more taxpayer dollars does not necessarily create better outcomes. We must constantly evaluate to ensure we are delivering services effectively and efficiently with the best practices and technologies. Since i arrived at hud in march it has been my mission to employ the wealth of knowledge held by career staff and remain careful stewards of taxpayer dollars. Our team has outlined a bold the wealth of knowledge held by plan for constitutional reform and improvement that will better serve all americans. Its called the Forward Initiative<\/a>. The policy elements of a Forward Initiative<\/a> each fall under what initiative each fall under what we have named the three rs, reimagine how hud works, restore the American Dream<\/a> and rethink American Communities<\/a>. First reimagining how hud works refers to internal processes, working conditions and training. The goal of every improvement made at hud is to provide Better Service<\/a> to those. Getting americans back on their feet and permanently improving their lives. Of course hud is committed to continuing to serve those families that might always need someone to lean ochblt additionally we have an opportunity to eliminate veterans, homelessness in america. They sacrificed for our country and deserve all of the support we can give. And finally we need to rethink American Communities<\/a> and how we can make them thrive. Expanding through partnerships live and Healthy Homes<\/a> free from hazardous and other business substances. As a doctor i have seen firsthand the tragic consequences of childhood exposure to dangerous building materials. Ridding our homes of these hazards is a worthy cause with great benefits to future generations. While pursuing its mission to provide safe, decent and Affordable Housing<\/a>, the hud team is also cognizant of its vital duty to be a good steward of taxpayer dollars. The president has directed federal agencies to take special care against burdening American Families<\/a> and their businesses with unnecessary and expensive regulations. Hud is reviewing its existing regulations to assess their compliance costs, reduce Regulatory Burden<\/a> and build a more efficient and effective agency. Let me close by reiterating the interest of our administration and my personal interest in working with this committee on Housing Finance<\/a> reform. Hud will be an active participant in this critical dialogue because of our fundamental Housing Mission<\/a> and because our fha Mortgage Insurance Program<\/a> and our ginny may Mortgage Backed<\/a> security guarantee. Reform should be built on shared goals of ensuring a well functioning Housing Finance<\/a> system that provides access for credit worthy borrowers who are ready to own a home. Expands the role of the private sector and reduces overall taxpayer exposure. Thank you for inviting me to testify today and i welcome any questions. Chair recognizes himself for five minutes for questions. Secretary carson, my colleague, mr. Duffy, alluded in his Opening Statement<\/a> to kind of metrics of success. And there are some who view the success of hud to be tied to the size of its budget or the number of people who have section 8 vouchers. But i am curious, does hud have or is hud developing any different metric . I mean, how many people actually get to escape poverty . How many ablebodied individuals are able to escape poverty to move beyond section 8 housing and maybe at one point enjoy the dream of Home Ownership<\/a> . Does hud have any way to measure this . Are we looking at this wrong . Should there be a different metric of success for what youre doing . There have been a number of studies over the course of decades. And as was mentioned in your Opening Statement<\/a>, there hasnt been a tremendous amount of progress there. This is not because the people who have been there have had bad intentions. I think they have very good intentions. But we do have to look at the fact that were not making a great deal with progress with poverty. And thats why we are looking to reform this whole thing. And really looking more at the person than at the housing complex. Housing is a component of developing people. We have to recognize that we only have 330 Million People<\/a> in this country. We have to compete in thefuture with china and india, who have four times that many people. That means, if we dont develop all of our people, we are not going to be able to keep up in the future. Its as simple as that. We have to start thinking in terms of Wholistic Development<\/a> of people and communities. How do we enable people to climb that ladder of opportunity. How do we incentivize them to climb that ladder of opportunity so that they become part of the strength of this country. Part of Affordable Housing<\/a> is obviously tied to our Housing Finance<\/a> system. Recently Federal Reserve<\/a> governor Jerome Powell<\/a> said, if congress does not enact reforms over the next few years we are at risk of settling for the status quo, a government dominated Mortgage Market<\/a> with insufficient private capital to protect taxpayers and insufficient competition to drive innovation. Do you agree or disagree with governor powells assessment . There is no question that we need to engage in a serious discussion about finance reform. A lot of progress has been made, by the way. Ten years ago we were talking about how important it is to get everybody into Home Ownership<\/a>. And again, i am not criticizing the people who did that. But i dont think they realized that to put somebody in a home that they cant afford is not really doing them a favor. They lose the home. They lose their credit. About how important it is to get they lose their future opportunities. We have to learn from those kinds of situations. And innovation is the hallmark of america. Mr. Secretary, can we reform our Housing Finance<\/a> system without reforming fha, which is obviously under hud . Fha, as you probably know, the largest guarantor of mortgages in the world. So its an essential part of it and needs to be reformed as well. Well, historically the mission of fha was to support firsttime and lowincome lowtomoderate income families. And it had a small footprint in the market. Now it has a very large footprint in the market and, in many areas of the u. S. , the fha loan limits are the same as the conventional market, 636,150 in socalled highcost areas. At least where i come from, only the top wageearners can afford a mortgage of 636,000. Do you agree that establishing a home price or loan limit more in line, say, with the median home price in the area will better serve the target customer for fha and get it refocused on low to moderate income and firsttime home buyers . Thank you for that question. If one looks at the actual statistics and looks at the bell curve, you know, 95 of the mortgages fall in the 200,000 range. On the very tips there are going to be very low ones and very high ones. So i tend to want to focus on the large group and not on the outliers. Its very, very rare that we deal with a 636,000 mortgage. Thank you, mr. Secretary. I now recognize the Ranking Member<\/a> for five minutes. Thank you very much. I had intended to start to talk about the housing crisis that we have, but since the president was busy tweeting this morning and you referred to huds role in dealing with the hurricane disasters and what you and the administration are doing, this morning trump threatened to abandon puerto rico Recovery Efforts<\/a>. President trump served notice thursday that he may pull back federal relief workers from puerto rico effectively threatening to abandon the u. S. Territory amid a staggering humanitarian crisis in the aftermath of hurricane maria. In a trio of tweets, he wrote, we cannot keep fema, the military, and the First Responders<\/a> who have been amazing in puerto rico forever. On thursday he sought to shame the territory for its own plight. He tweeted, electric and all infrastructure was disaster before hurricane. So you talked about what you, hud, is doing in cooperation with, i guess, the administration. Do you agree with the president . I certainly agree that puerto rico is a very important territory. The people from puerto rico have contributed greatly to the culture of america. I am not talking about that. What i am talking about is these tweets where the president threatened to abandon puerto rico Recovery Efforts<\/a>. Do you agree that they should be abandoned, that puerto rico should be abandoned . Well, first of all, as i was saying, puerto rico is a very important part i want to know whether or not you agree with the president , who is threatening to abandon puerto rico Recovery Efforts<\/a>. I think i just said i have no intention of abandoning puerto rico. They are a very important part of what we are. He tweeted, electric and all other infrastructure was a disaster before the hurricanes and sought to shame the territory for its own plight. Do you share that opinion . I think that our job is to make sure that we take care of the disaster that has occurred. So you dont agree that it should be abandoned. Isnt that right . Of course it should not be abandoned. And you dont think they should be shamed for their own plight. Is that right . There is no question that there have been a lot of difficulties in puerto rico. Should they be shamed for its own plight . I dont think it i dont think it is beneficial to go around shaming people in general. I am glad to hear you dont agree with the president. Let me go on with my housing question. I want to talk about someone who i recently met by the name of larry, who resides in a section 202 housing for the elderly property in south los angeles. Larry shared with me the meticulous Monthly Budget<\/a> he manages for himself. I have the budget right here. He lives on a fixed income of 1,015 per month. After paying for rent, utilities, groceries, medical expenses, personal hygiene,he has exactly 110 left at the end of the month. He told me he looks forward to using some of that 110 to take his granddaughter out for ice cream. The rent increases proposed in your recent hud budget would mean an 80 monthly increase for larry. Larry said to me in my office, congresswoman, i dont know which other corner i could cut if i had to pay an additional 80 per month in rent. In fact, i have data that shows that seniors would have to pay an additional 83 a month on average in rent under your rent reform proposal, which is a whopping 28 increase over what theyre currently paying. There are lowincome seniors in hud assisted housing all over this country like larry with average incomes just over 13,000 a year. Do you mean to tell me it is the vision of this administration to raise rents on low income seniors like larry . Tell me, what do you expect larry to do if your proposal to raise rent is enacted . If larry does not see a way out, he can apply for an exemption, which will be available to him. Having said that, we are changing programs in such a way as to create sustainability. We dont want to reach a point, you know, five years down the road where we have no ability to take care of anyone. Let me just say that i have heard you mention before that hardship exemptions will be available, but i do not accept that as an adequate solution because hardship exemptions have historically failed to actually help people who are eligible for an exemption and you have never even acknowledged this. So i ask you again, what do you expect larry and the tens of thousands of other seniors like larry to do in the face of such a dramatic rent increase . First of all, i think the situation that you just described is not a critical situation. Situation. Typical i dont believe that elderly and disabled people will see that large of an increase. Thats not the numbers that i have received. Based on your cuts they will. Time. We would be very happy to have our people go over the numbers with you. Time. Time of the gentle lady expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Duffy, chairman of the housing and insurance subcommittee. I wanted to deviate from my original questions and note that the president was somewhat accurate in that the electrical grid in puerto rico was not up to what it should have been. Theyre highly in debt. There is a lot of problems in puerto rico that they were dealing with before maria hit them. I love the island. I am part of the puerto rican caucus. But to now try to say that President Trump<\/a> is shaming people on the island. If i am not mistaken it was President Trump<\/a> who sent over a request for a supplemental package to the tune of 36 billion. It came from the white house. Yes. I can tell you from being in many conversations with the president and other members of the cabinet, he is in no way thinking about abandoning them. He has put a lot of effort into that. Speaking to that point, i think it was president obama who did a flyby stop in in puerto rico but then went and spent days in cuba hanging out with a ruthless dictator, going to see baseball games, hands in the air, open up tourism in cuba to the exclusion of tourism in puerto rico. We should first go, lets promote american citizens in puerto rico and dollars flowing there instead of to the dictatorship. I am off my questions, but i had to respond to the Ranking Member<\/a>s i think inaccurate characterization of what President Trump<\/a> has done on behalf of the good people of puerto rico. I want to pivot, and i dont have a lot of time. Can you talk about when you look at hud, when you look at the tax dollars that flow through your agency, what are you doing to be more efficient to stretch those dollars further and help more people but also be responsive to the taxpayers who send you money . What are you doing on those ends . I take responsibility of the taxpayers very seriously. And we have put in place a team that understands that seriousness. We have hired a coo, a cio, and a cfo. Hopefully we will get through very soon. Its been named. So that we can begin to look at things from the 30,000 point of view. 30,000 foot point of view rather than just patching Little Things<\/a> that dont seem towork, which has been the way things have been done in the past, running it really more like a business, assigning responsibilities to people in all of the different areas so that you dont pass the buck to someone else. Refreshing. I think i heard the Ranking Member<\/a> mention this, that people shouldnt be too comfortable in Public Housing<\/a>. I think she was quoting you. What do you mean by that . I thank you for giving me an opportunity to clarify that. We were in a transitional we were in a transitional housing setting, and they were getting people out three times to four times faster than other transitional housing. And i wanted to know how they were doing that. It was because they were concentrating their efforts and their resources on getting people into permanent housing. And i said thats a very good idea. There was a New York Times<\/a> reporter there who sort of misinterpreted that, or actually she did a better job, but her editors reinterpreted that to say that carson thinks they shouldnt be comfortable. What a bunch of crap that is. Thank you for that. Listen, i dont i know that poverty is not comfortable. And i know that you know that as well as someone who lived that firsthand, especially growing up. But when we talk about being trying to make people comfortable in poverty, as opposed to trying to incent people to get out of poverty and get into the middle class, if you look at your own Life Experience<\/a>, would you be better off if you and your mother and your family had been made comfortable to stay where you were in Public Housing<\/a> and in poverty or to incentivize you to become the great doctor and now secretary that you are . Well, i can tell you that, at the time when my mother was pushing us, i would have preferred somebody make me comfortable there. I didnt want her to make me read these reports and give her all these reports. In retrospect, you know, by reading, particularly about successful people in all endeavors, i began to realize what is necessary. And to realize that the person who has the most to do with what happens to you is you. What we have to do is help more people to not only recognize that but to give them the means whereby they can take advantage of the opportunities that exist in our society. I dont have much time. We talked about this in the past, but i want to make this note. I am concerned in Rural America<\/a> how programs impact lowincome Homeless People<\/a> in Rural America<\/a> as opposed to urban america where there are better structures and more money flows. But poverty in Rural America<\/a> is just as dangerous and treacherous and sad as in urban america, and making sure there is some equity between the two. I look forward to working with you about addressing these issues in Rural America<\/a>. Time of the gentleman has expired. The chair now recognizes gentleman from new york, mr. Meeks. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary, good to see you. You too. Let me first just say that Puerto Rico Needs<\/a> all the help that it can get. We need to make sure that were doing what we need to do. I would also say that the u. S. Virgin islands, because i didnt hear you mention about the u. S. Virgin islands, i did not hear you mention about. They are american citizens and we need to do all we can to ensure the conditions theyre in, due to no fault of their own with the natural disaster, that hud does what it can to make sure that these individuals get back on their feet. Agreed. Now, our life story is somewhat similar. I grew up in Public Housing<\/a>. Which is very important to me. And the opportunity to move on, it was great in the sense that there was, you know, looking for Home Ownership<\/a>. And i know i think that you said during your testimony that there has not been a tremendous amount of progress at relieving poverty with Housing Program<\/a>s i can tell you that, if it wasnt for Housing Program<\/a>s, i probably would still be in poverty. And i could name friend after friend after friend who grew up in the same Public Housing<\/a> development that i did who no longer lives there, who would be in poverty if it wasnt for a when you look at the fact that individuals who were preyed upon , because i know you also believe that the goal is homeownership, those individuals who lived in Public Housing<\/a>, many of them, who aspired to own a home, they were victimized by exotic mortgages and targets, etc. Renting are forced into their apartments and homes and need Housing Program<\/a>s so they roof overue to have a their head so they can get out of poverty. One of the things i am concerned about is the distressed assets program. Toseems we are selling Homes Private<\/a> equity firms who have no making sure that we stress homeownership and make sure that individuals stay in their homes. I was wondering, what is your vision for that Program Going<\/a> forward . Do you expect the program to continue . First of all, Public Housing<\/a> is important and assistant housing is important. The point was that even though it is important, we need to look at ways to reform it so we can make more progress in terms of getting people out of poverty. Definitely i dont want to get rid of it. As far as the program is be aware, we have to of our responsibility to taxpayers, and that means not keeping a lot of and taking on a lot of taxpayer money if we can find ways to dispose of those properties, we want to do it. We have written into the regulations a requirement that people who are in those houses cannot be expelled from them for several months . We tried to give people appropriate time to get out. Local municipalities, nonprofits, inviting these bold bulk homes, because they have if that program was designed so local municipalities had a vested interest in this and not would bets, then it something that would encourage the same which you are talking about, homeownership. Sec. Carson i agree with you we have beenat working on that issue and we would be happy to work with you. I think our goal is to get that property into the hands of private citizens if we can do that. Get this innt to because i think it is tremendous clean difficult if you look at the Public Housing<\/a> stock in my district, for example. 1. 1 million families living in Public Housing<\/a>, but if you cut all the money that goes into repairing those homes, any ribs, to get rid of walls and mildew, there is no way you can repair them if you have the money to reinvest in them. Of the gentleman has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from mexico, chairman of our terrorism and illicit finance subcommittee. Appreciate your being here. Appreciate the work you are doing. Recently, the new mexico on theion sent a letter albuquerque hud office. Are you making progress on finding someone to sec. Carson yes, we are making progress. Nativentative pierce americans are sometimes located in some of the deepest poverty areas in the country. Family, maybe not the same circumstances as yours, work our way out of poverty the same one small house at a time. Visiteds last week, i examples of what tribes can do to provide housing. I have advised you, i would like you to revisit to see what tribes are doing to build housing for their own citizens and extending their mortgage rules to wear banks, in some cases, are financing housing on indian reservations, which has not happened much in the past. It is very innovative. In the broader case about your Forward Initiative<\/a>s and the restore, these are things i can identify as having worked in our life. I hear stories of how they have worked in your life. I appreciate your bringing your world experience and implementing it into a format that hopefully others can reach. About thelittle bit publicprivate partnerships that you visualize and some of the community initiatives. Sec. Carson first of all, thank you for the work you have done with the native american community. I had an opportunity recently to go out to montana and visit with some of the tribes there as well as a multitribal council. Visit with some of the young people there and look at some ideas for really moving that help ofd with the congress, we will get revamped very soon. As far as the publicprivate harder ships around the country, they have been amazing. It is really the new way that we rather than hud, writing in with a big bucket of money and saying build this place for these people, getting the local private sector involved in a way that they actually have significant so that the success and maintenance of the uponborhood is incumbent them to maintain their financial benefit. Shouldt is the way it be. Winwin situations all along. Some ofr thing about these partnerships, instead of just building a house or putting a roof on, they are trying to build communities because you need a variety of Different Things<\/a> in order to create a Healthy Community<\/a> in any part of the country. Later on hopefully i will have the opportunity to talk about the in Vision Centers<\/a> we are working on hopefully being open in a couple of months. Lot toll really add a complete community. Being a veteran myself, i noted that you said you were concentrating on eliminating veteran homelessness. Can you give me a little more specifics on what is going on in that program . Sec. Carson yeah, over the last relatively short period, helplessness homelessness for veterans has been decreased by 47 and is going down. We are working with the v. A. , as well as across multiple agencies because i believe that is something that we can completely eliminate. Hud program has been very we had extra vouchers left over last year. One thing that would be helpful for us working with your Community Committee<\/a> would be having less restrictions on how vouchersstribute those , because there are some places where there is absolutely no one who needs them and other places where they do need them. We need the flexibility to be able to transfer them to the appropriate places. Rep. Pearce thank you, sir. I yield back. Recognizes thew gentleman from massachusetts. Like to you, i would yield my time to the Ranking Member<\/a> miss waters. Thank you very much. I have serious concerns about the potential conflicts with entries with regard to hud funds that are contributing to the profits of multifamily developments, owned in part by the president and his soninlaw. You think it is important appropriate that the president and his family are benefiting from funding meant to support low income families . Sec. Carson if you can give me a specific example, i can address that question. Knowwater well, i want to if you think it is appropriate that the president and his family are profiting from any federal government funding intended to support low income families . Sec. Carson i dont think it is appropriate for Public Officials<\/a> in general to do that. Ok, do you stand by the president s decision not to divest himself of his interest in properties that receive hud funding . Sec. Carson i think the best thing to do is tell me specifically what you are talking about and i can address it. Rep. Waters what have you done to ensure hud is properly handling these unprecedented conflicts of interest . Can carson again, if you tell me what the specific thing is, i can address it. Rep. Waters these properties that are owned in part by the president or mr. Kushner are reportedly in very bad condition. Owned inle, which is part by the president. Sec. Carson i do know he has part ownership. Rep. Waters it is recently declining hud inspection scores, you know that soto dont you . It has increasingly declined hud inspection scores. Sec. Carson i know there are problems there, yes. Rep. Waters specifically, do you know that it is a problem . They have received increasingly declined head inspection scores. Do you know that . Sec. Carson i know what is necessary to know as the secretary of hud regarding that. Do i know all of the numbers . Rep. Waters i dont want you to know all the numbers, all i want you to know is about sterritt. Everybody knows a lot about sterritt, and it is partially owned by the president. You are the hud secretary and you are in a conflict of interest situation. I just want to make sure you understand what you are overseeing. Do you know they have declining hud inspection scores . Sec. Carson i know they have been having difficulty. Rep. Waters so you know they have not passed inspections. What are you doing to ensure these hud residents are not suffering as a result of poor management and lack of investment by its profit motivated owners . Sec. Carson of course, we oversee the phas that are involved with that. And work with them, as we do with the ones all around the country. Learneders we have that the owners of sterritt city, the biggest section eight contract in the country, of which trump is part owner, are planning to sell the property. This sale is already right with controversy as infighting between the ownership is playing out in public. Of whenknowledge property is not hud held as sterritt city is, because hud is has not published its process. Hud has the ability to insist on things like robust protections and longer affordability requirements, but the process is frankly unknown. Have you gotten involved with this . It is a big issue. Sec. Carson we have a very well formulated group that deals with these kinds of issues. Iny will deal with this one the same way they deal with all such issues. There wont be anything done differently that they have not kept you abreast of what is what they are doing . Are you satisfied with the progress they are making . Sec. Carson they will handle this as they have handled all s. Ing rep. Waters they have not kept you appraised, you dont know. I would like a full accounting of the process your department is planning to employ, including all decision points and who will make them should this process move forward and so, i want you to commit to that because again, this is a big project that is owned partially by the president of the United States<\/a> and i want to know how this sale is going to work, what kind of protections these tenants are going to have and you should keep yourself appraised of it because i am going to want to know as others will want to know how it is progressing. Sec. Carson we will be happy to work with you and your staff to disseminate that information. Committee recognizes ms. Wagner. thank youive wagner for your testimony this morning, for being here. We know you have been on the job for just a brief five or six months, we are glad to have you in front of the committee for the first time. As you know, the block grant Immunity Development<\/a> Block Grant Program<\/a> is heads thirdlargest. What is also forgotten is that the disaster release relief while the committee has long been concerned by the Previous Administration<\/a>s misused of the block grant to isaster relief funds, it good to know that congress recently provided a program with seven point 4 billion in funding. Billion dollars in funding. Understanding this is the first Disaster Relief<\/a> effort you have been involved in, are you aware of some of the problems, concerns of the program, especially regarding prior misuse of funds and what importance do you place on making sure these programs go to the americans who need the most . Of all, it isirst very important to point out that dr are different programs. And cdbgr has been very important to disaster programs like the ones we have seen. There are very good things that have been done through the program and there are things that are quite questionable that have been done. Does it mean that we are not recognizing the things that are good that have been done and ofd to be done in terms infrastructure and redevelopment, and development of communities and those things will continue to be done without question. Questioning the things that have been effective and have for. We are worked. We are questioning the things that have wasted taxpayer money and we have a way of reforming those things. Rep. Wagner i am glad to hear that. As the chairman of the oversight and Investment Committee<\/a> on financial services, we are going to be looking into the program and even the potential upcoming hearing. I just ask for your commitment and cooperation to work with this committee on finding those various solutions that will effectiveness, efficiency and most importantly, taxpayer accountability regarding the community Development Block<\/a> grant Disaster Relief<\/a> program. Putting rules for for the program in statute, putting limits on money, deadlines, recapturing of funds, even better tracking of funds. I hope you will be willing to work with us. Sec. Carson all of those things will be done and that is why we put together a more businesslike approach and will very much be looking forward to working with you on that. Rep. Wagner staying with that theme, i want to go to something you said in your testimony. Affordableing housing for the American People<\/a>, the hud team is cognizant of its duty to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars and like medical dictum, first do no harm. Having spent 1. 6 trillion in taxpayer funds since its creation in 1965, is head this is a broad question is head making life better for american cities, and other communities . Sec. Carson a lot of good things have been done. I dont want to disparage the efforts people have put into this. Things that have been done before as stepping stones to help us get to where i have ao be and tendency to not spend a lot of time disparaging people. Rep. Wagner i appreciate that. I am interested to know how hud, what your perspective is on measuring success beyond the number of programs it creates or the amount of money spent . Success for i think us will be not the number of people we get into these programs but how many people we get out of it. How many people actually climb that ladder of success and become selfsufficient. That is what our programs will be in debt. Rep. Wagner i find your approach refreshing and uplifting. I thank you for your testimony today. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from georgia, mr. Spot mr. Scott. Representative scott secretary carson, tell me, why do you think President Trump<\/a> asked you to be secretary of hud . Probably because before i endorsed him, we spent a lot of time talking about what particularly in some of our disadvantaged communities and how we really that if weecognize are going to succeed as a nation, all of those people have to succeed as well. Rep. Scott let me ask you this. , i believe me that that the president put you there cutting andr to program. Ng the cdbg let me tell you why. First of all, this is the crucible of the whole argument. You should be at the forefront of telling the great story of of the cb dg program cbdg that has retained it has retained 386,000 jobs for low to moderate income people. Program has contributed 42 million low and modern moderate income persons improvement, including senior citizens, childhood centers, centers for people with disabilities, veterans veterans with disabilities. Benefited 133 million low to moderate income persons likegh Public Service<\/a> employment training. The funds have been used to assist credit worthy working andlies with down payments closing cost assistance on their homes. You should be out here shouting the success of this program, but rather, i believe that the president has you there to give cover to cutting this program and eliminating it. Here is what you told the new son, whens, mr. Car this issue was brought up. In july of this year, you said i know that cdbg have been called out for elimination. You said that. Program hasthe cdbg been called out for elimination. Was it President Trump<\/a> that called that out . Who else could . My impression is that what the issident is really saying that there are problems oh, and you said this. I think it was someone on his staff who kind of said well, maybe we should just get rid of the whole cdbg program. I am here to tell you, mr. Secretary, i am not going to let you do that and i believe we have enough democrats and republicans because this is a Bipartisan Program<\/a> that is doing well and you would do well, mr. And fight to stand up back in this administration. Downeds help when it comes to dealing with hurting and you are in this secretary, not just because of what you said well, even if we cut these funds, i believe that the American People<\/a> are a compassionate people. Will mr. , you should know better than anyone that compassion alone wont do it. It wasnt compassion alone that got you sitting where you are right now. Somebody had to give you and your family and others a financial helping hand. We need you to speak up and fight back in this administration. The time of the gentleman has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from missouri, chairman of our Financial Institutions<\/a> subcommittee. Mr. Carson. , welcome. Last year, president obama signed the act of 2016. The legislation required the fha to streamline rules that applied to condominiums. Last september, the Department Published<\/a> a proposed rule. Can you give us a sense of timing on the final rule . Were like, 28here different sections that had to be satisfied, three quarters of which have been satisfied. It is really very important, isause condominium purchase frequently the first step into Home Ownership<\/a> and homeownership is vitally important to the economy of our nation and wealth accumulation is a part a primary source of wealth accumulation. The average homeowner has cumulative wealth of 200,000 average renter. It is a big issue and one of the tosons i am looking for ways get a lot of the people who are relatively complacent with renting to be homeowners, but we have to do it in the responsible way. Rep. Luetkemeyer last month, the Congressional Budget Office<\/a> released title options to manage to risk,osure guaranteeing singlefamily mortgages. The purpose was to provide policy options designed to theher also improving financial position. I assume your staff has read that report . Sec. Carson yes, they have. Rep. Luetkemeyer are you aware of it . Sec. Carson we have had some discussions. Rep. Luetkemeyer other positions that are in there, are you looking at implementing some of those . Are you able to talk about some of it yet that you have plans on or are you still reviewing . Sec. Carson those are things that obviously, we would be happy to work with you on. I am looking forward to having involved inssioner those discussions, as well. Rep. Luetkemeyer have any idea when that individual will be appointed . Sec. Carson i am hoping very shortly. It has been quite an ordeal. Getting people in place. Rep. Luetkemeyer understand. As housing costs continue to grow and rental costs continue to escalate but incomes remain stagnant, the demand for Affordable Housing<\/a> has decreased row has decreased. Sec. Carson as you probably know right now, we are only able one in threeout people with Affordable Housing<\/a> who are looking for it. We have extensive waiting lists and one of the things that is really helping to cut down on are someog of people of these publicprivate partnerships, particularly through the red programs that have taken these places that have big backlogs of Capital Improvements<\/a> that need to be made and by partnering with the private sector and through light tech and things of that nature, creating vast numbers of affordable units. In florida, in miami wherely, Liberty Square<\/a> they are demolishing 700 units and replacing them with 1600 units which are very nice and complete neighborhoods. Those are the kinds of things that will help us make progress will makeake we progress a lot faster than we would did with the old model. Rep. Luetkemeyer you talked about the Hurricane Relief<\/a> that providingrking on and Housing Solutions<\/a>. Could you explain . Major storms here, another storm hits last week. How is your agency providing relief and help for those folks . This is an unprecedented situation that has occurred with this level of hurricane at levity so close one after the other. We have been involved with each thing even before it hit. We had people on the ground, volunteers on the ground assessing what the needs are. How many people do we have who have been displaced . How many units are there . Puerto rico, for instance, there with03 multi family units over 2100 units. The vast majority of those are assisted housing. Finding out what happened to those people, where are they located and how can we get the most quickly back into things . The initial responses through fema and we work very closely with them. Numbers ton their help with the longterm recovery aspects of what we do. Rep. Luetkemeyer thank you very much. The time of the gentleman has expired. Chair recognizes mr. Sherman. Representative sherman i want to focus on the fha program. The Prior Administration<\/a> was in the process of implementing a 20 25basis point reduction of premium that would save 500 in the first year and more in highcost areas like nine. One million homeowners would have benefited and they would have saved over 27 billion. In your confirmation of course, before you were nominated the administration theed that plan to reduce premium by 25 basis points. During your confirmation, you agreed to look at that policy with the possibility of reinstituting that 25 basis points of decline. We also see that back until 2013, you stopped making premiums when you reached a reissue of ratio of 27 . At that point, it was thought you didnt need insurance, to make Insurance Premium<\/a> payments. That was reversed in 2013. Towards perhaps reducing the Insurance Premium<\/a> by 25 basis points and are you examining going back to the policy of saying once you have 22 equity, you dont have to make Premium Payments<\/a> . Sec. Carson certainly both of those things are under study, looked at very carefully. I personally dont want to make a commitment in terms of either becausehem right now, we are so close to having an fha commissioner, but do bear in mind that we want the prices of homeownership to be as low as possible while still protecting taxpayers. Rep. Sherman and how will the recent reversed more gene ditch mortgage changes impact the mutual mortgage insurance bond and do you expect the additional changes to the reversed Mortgage Program<\/a> . Sec. Carson when it was initiated, i think it was done with good intentions, but without really looking down the pike. People were taking large amounts of their equity in the beginning them was sustainable and this was leading to a lot more problems than it was helping. It has also read all resolved in a much higher default rate and that has been a drain on the f. I the changes we have made will stop the bleeding in terms of new mortgages or reversed mortgages, and the Mortgage Program<\/a> is doing extremely well. We are doing some training from the reversed mortgage, but a lot of putting in of funds from the other. We are very close to the 2 right now. We obviously need to watch further. Intosherman i want to get one other issue. Beyond your responsibilities for housing and urban development, you have other responsibilities under the constitution, along with other cabinet secretaries. Four of the section 25th amendment. We all live by this constitution. With theon for deals possibility that a president is unable to discharge the powers. Nd duties of his office have you taken the time to get Legal Counsel<\/a> to brief you on what your responsibility is as a cabinet secretary under the 25th amendment . Sec. Carson i have not had an in depth discussion of that. Rep. Sherman i would urge you to do so. This amendment was written in the early 1960s as a result of what we life that happens. Aether the dangers that president faces, whether it is the Health Problems<\/a> a president can face. I would urge you first to get know what youro responsibilities are and second, to discuss with other cabinet officers how you would implement a section for of the 25th amendment. I yield back. The chernow recognizes the gentleman from kentucky, mr. Barr. Committee chair of our Monetary Policy<\/a> and trade subcommittee. Barr welcome to the committee and thank you for your service, not just as a public servant, as secretary of the department but also as a physician in private life and for helping so many children. Most of all for the example you have set. That hard work, integrity, persistence, those are values to escapingential poverty. Thank you for expressing that government dependency often undermines those values. As we have talked in kentucky many times, my district has one of the highest opioid addiction rates in the country. Unfortunately, the commonwealth of kentucky suffers under the third highest Drug Overdose<\/a> mortality rate in america. The good news is i have seen evidencebased transitional Housing Program<\/a>s, including saint james place, shepherds house, these help individuals coming out of recovery and transition into the workforce through financial literacy, and accounting services. Unfortunately, huds Housing First<\/a> program has not been helpful. People who come out of addiction are placed in housing where their neighbors are abusing the very substances that they once abused themselves. This contributes to a cycle of addiction that tears apart our communities. Does hud have any plans to address this issue in light of the Opioid Epidemic<\/a> . Have you considered the need for support of transitional Housing Program<\/a>s as an alternative to this very counterproductive Housing First<\/a> program . Sec. Carson homelessness is a big issue, and i think one we as a nation have the opportunity to resolve. First, i think it is a bad name because people think we are just getting people off the street and we are forgetting about them. Maybe some people have done it that way. We are not doing it that way now. Housing first, housing second and housing thirdperiod Housing First<\/a>, you get them off the streets because you leave them under that bridge for a year, they will end up in an emergency room. Getting admitted, he weeks at mission ends up being a year or more of housing. That really doesnt help us very much. There are a lot of statistics i can give you in terms of how much they cost when you dont house them men versus when you do. You get them housed first. Secondly, you diagnose why they were in that condition. That is critical. Housing third, you fix it. Dont think it is appropriate to just get them off the street and forget about them and move on to the next project. Rep. Barr thank you for that answer and i also appreciate your desire to see greater iexibility in hud vash, invite you to see what we are doing with it, the flexibility you are requesting, i we want to help you with that, because organizations like st. James are to great hud vash success, requiring work, sobriety, not just measuring success by how many veterans they are housing, but how many veterans are right waiting that program. Again, i want to invite you to come see the good folks at st. James place in lexington, kentucky. A stopson, i introduced of overreach on your department. The amendment would refuse enforcement of three hud actions inconsistent with statute and negatively impacting manufactured housing. Rural kentucky, manufactured housing is a terrific Affordable Housing<\/a> option for many of my constituents. As the leader of hud that regulates manufactured housing, can you undertake an effort to comprehensively review all of these regulations impacting manufactured housing and direct your team to utilize this information so that any new regulations do not have unintended cost consequences . Ac. Carson yes, we have Regulatory Reform<\/a> committee that has been formed at hud for just purposes like that. Rep. Barr thanks for that and finally, while we all of war discrimination despise discrimination, the Previous Administration<\/a> made government engineered an attempt to create consequences that could make matters worse. This is the disparate act regulation. Is hud working to revise that . Sec. Carson we are making things logical, making things make sense. Of 1968 wassing act one of the greatest pieces of legislation ever. It andbig fan of certainly dont want any discrimination of any type going on under my watch. But we also dont want Regulatory Burden<\/a>s to impede our ability to get things done and we dont want to penalize small municipalities that cant afford to hire consultants. Of the gentleman has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from missouri, mr. Cleaver. Representative cleaver thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here. I dont want to be melodramatic, but when i was elected, i didnt the press said what do you want to do, i dont want to be speaker, assistant speaker, the person in charge of trash, whatever. On was thed to be subcommittee on housing. That was my biggest aspiration coming to congress, and it was because of my background and what i had seen. What has hurt me personally and many other people over the years, which is when people make disparaging comments about People Living<\/a> in Public Housing<\/a>. You and i grew up similarly, so you know that is not something that can give you great joy. My father, living in his home today, my goal is to never let him know ahead of time that he can watch on cspan, because i dont want him, having done all the work he did to get four kids out, to hear some of the things that people unintentionally say. Because this is the house i lived in for seven years. Six people, my mother, my father, my Three Sisters<\/a>. Seven years. Jobs,her worked three like a lot of the other people in our community. Three jobs. Cleveland,r, boston, classmates of mine, their parents were doing the same thing. I have never heard a person as i can hardly wait to get my own Public Housing<\/a> unit. Me, is a serious thing to my family, and a lot of other people. Goal is to do something before i leave here more than i have done and hopefully can inspire others to want to do to do some major overhauls of some of our i want to ask you a question about that. I wanted to be known that helping one family will not change the world. But it will change the world for that one family. And theynt help, needed from time to time. If you look at genesis 17, when ur, to go to the land of promise, he stopped at a place called haran. Many theologians call that the halfway house. He stayed there until he could find a better route to get to the promised land. A lot ofusing is people stay there until they can get somewhere else. Father, my father sent my mother to college when i was almost in the seventh grade. I yield back the balance of my time. The gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan. The chairman of our Capital Markets<\/a> subcommittee. Dr. Carson, in this corner to the right, a little further to your right. Yeah, that right. [laughter] i know the configuration is sometimes difficult. Just leftolleague has and i know it was emotional for him. I think this is an emotional issue for a lot of us. Family, i have a father who was born in 1921, he passed away a year and a half ago. Mother was born in 1931. They lived through the depression. My mother was born and raised in flint. Recently with the flint water crisis that was going on, i visited. I asked my mom for a couple of the addresses where her family had moved around to. I am getting choked up myself. Me whoy fourth son with is 13. And i stopped. I stopped the car in front of the houses, and the main house my mother grew up in. I had cousins and uncles and aunts that all lived there. One of my cousins reprimanded me and asked what i was doing in the neighborhood. Hard people have worked to get out of those situations. I saw it, i witnessed it. I have seen it with my own mom, as well. It pains me that my colleague, hasriend has felt that he hurt disparaging remarks about those who live in Public Housing<\/a>. That was his quote, i wrote it down. This is the inspirational part. A lot of people stay until they can get somewhere else. I know that is my goal. I believe that is his goal. I trust that is your goal as well. I think the question and debate we have is, how do we get that to happen . How do we allow that, because as i have seen some of your discussions and we have had a chance to talk in the past, not everybody takes advantage of those opportunities to move ahead or get out of a particular situation. I believe with what you are doing to moving to work, to allow flexibility for these tolic housing authorities attract private sector folks and attract these outside opportunities is commendable. My understanding that about 55 of ablebodied adults receiving Housing Assistance<\/a> are working. To me is the key. How do we make sure that we are giving those folks who are working hard nonsenior citizens, nondisabled, but ablebodied individuals. Do you support these work requirements and things that are being tried . Trying to nudge people out of the comfort zone . Sec. Carson thank you for asking that question. We all come at this from different angles, and a different Life Experiences<\/a> but when you sit down and talk to people from these different places, we all really have similar wants and desires. We allow ourselves sometimes to be manipulated into thinking we are enemies. We are not enemies. People to of getting excel and realize the talent that god has given them is a serious issue because there are those who would have everybody to believe that you are a him and everyone is against you. And everyone is against you. We need to concentrate on how we get people to climb the ladder of opportunity. We need to recognize things like education. It doesnt matter where you come from or your background. If you get a good education in this country, you write your on ticket. That needs to be integrated into our living situations as well. Health care needs to be taken out of the political arena. We need to be putting clinics into our neighborhoods so people dont use the emergency room as their primary care. That costs five times more and also, you wind up with these stage for diseases because people dont have consisting care. All of these kinds of things we can solve if we as americans are willing to Work Together<\/a> and not allow ourselves to be polarized. Closing seconds, i believe we need to look at how current Housing Assistance<\/a> programs either incentivize that or hinder that opportunity and hopefully you will be able to talk more about that. Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from new york, miss alaska is. Representative last vela sques. Only member who is a puerto rican citizen that sits in this committee. Since i dont have President Trump<\/a> in front of me, i would just like for you to let him know how shameful all the tweets that he put out this morning, how offended and insulted i am as an american citizen, and i would like to suggest that the president gets him history some history lessons regarding the puerto rican relationship with the United States<\/a>. In 1890 eight, american troops invaded puerto rico. American troops took over puerto rico. 1917, Puerto Ricans<\/a> didnt invite the United States<\/a> armed forces. It was invaded. So with that invasion, comes responsibility. 1917, american citizenship was imposed on Puerto Ricans<\/a>. Could join the armed forces and fight in world war i. Tweets are unpresident ial. The most basic fundamental responsibility of the president of the United States<\/a>, the president of the most powerful country in the world, is to show provide theand assistance and the relief that american citizens need. They dont need these types of insults. By the way, why is it that he doesnt put the same tweets when it comes to texas or florida . You invaded puerto rico, we invaded the United States<\/a> of america the United States<\/a> of america invaded puerto rico. My uncle participated in the korean war. Defend theod to freedoms that every american in this country enjoys. To kick those citizens when they are down is shameful. Said that you are providing assistance for those who lost their homes in puerto rico. The National Low Income<\/a> Housing Coalition<\/a> and Affordable Housing<\/a> groups on the island that the federal governments housing response has not been sufficient. What are you doing . In my hometown, 10,000 homes were destroyed. What kind of assistance are you providing . Sec. Carson thank you for asking that question, and i do sympathize greatly with the people who have lost so much. There are 114,000 singlefamily ands that are fha backed many of them have sustained significant damage. Our people are on the ground, including one of our associate secretaries who is a puerto rican and has been extraordinarily helpful to me. Rep. Velazquez what kind of assistance are you providing for those who lost their homes . Sec. Carson dozens of others who have gone over there. What we are providing our insurance for those who have sectionir homes through 203 h, 203 k for rehabilitation of homes. Rep. Velazquez are you working with some housing groups on the ground . Sec. Carson and i will be going to puerto rico myself. Rep. Velazquez that is great, but that doesnt provide the assistance today. People are dying. It is the rainy season in puerto rico. I understand fema promised to bring roofs that were lost. It is the rainy season. People are dying today. Sec. Carson fema is the First Responder<\/a> their. They are gathering information there, we are working in the process for the longterm recovery. Carson, whenz dr. You were nominated by the president , i said what does he know about housing . But then, you are a doctor and said you would take care of those who are suffering from Health Issues<\/a> in Public Housing<\/a>. I see a disconnect between your confirmation hearings and your commitment to address the issue of asthma respiratory illnesses in Public Housing<\/a>, and pulling 2 billion out of the capital and operating funds for housing. The time for the gentlelady has expired. The chair recognizes mr. Royce from california. ,epresentative royce thank you mr. Secretary. At the outset, i just wanted to come to myto district, especially out to san bernardino, california for the Housing Authority<\/a> is working on program, an work agency that has been up and running for some time. It is running very effectively. Ofy have had a number successful selfsufficiency programs, including homeownership programs and term limits on those and work requirements. We would love to have you see this firsthand if you could. Wanted to extend that. I was wondering if you could talk more about what the department is doing to advance mpw, as it is called, the moving to work program. And other sustainable best practices which lift people out of their situation and onto economic independence . Sec. Carson thank you for that question. The moving to Work Initiative<\/a> really was to provide various municipalities with the ability to be flexible. Recognizing that they were probably the people who best new what their needs were. This really allows for a significant amount of innovation. The first 39 districts that benefited from this have reduced some pretty good results, and that resulted in extending the program to another 100 communities over the next seven years. Will beeful that we able to go far beyond that. I look forward to working with you on ways we can expand that program. We are looking for everything that is highly effective. Haveof the programs that been talked about here this morning have had some components that are highly effective. Sure thatng to make we learn from those things and continue to push those things. There may be different mechanisms to do it, but we are not going to abandon those things. That would be foolish. Rep. Royce two other questions. One is the department is reviewing its policy to allow liens on finance loans. The defaults on these loans are would like aand i comment on when you would make the decision to whether withdraw the current letter or clarify how the fha will treat these paste loans . Sec. Carson obviously, it is a serious issue when you footing put in first lien position, that is an issue. Rep. Royce very concerning to us. Sec. Carson me too, we will have a position on that soon. Rep. Royce one last question, as you know, the gses have engaged in credit risk sharing transitions. This shields american taxpayers to some extent and we have a bill to do them for them to do even more in terms of that approach. I have been told the fha may have the ability to do risksharing transactions, or at least purchase coinsurance to reduce the risk to the public. I think this could be very constructive means of reducing taxpayer exposure. Would you support legislation here or regulatory clarification in fhas existing authority to support credit risksharing. Rep. Royce we have already sec. Carson we are continuing discussions on that. I am looking forward to having in fha commissioner, but i thank you. Ill yield back. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from ohio. Thank you. And to the witness, thank you for being here. I have a series of questions and for the sake of time to get through them many of them mr. Ask you to will simply affirm or deny with a a yearn vote. On july 12 i sent you a letter signed ask by moores and 15 or of my other colleagues as members of congress. It was requesting that you follow through on the decision o lower the annual premiums, citing the fiscal strength of the fund in historically low hormoneship rates especially among firsttime home buyers. Certainly ive had some correspondance in that so it was probably the latter. Did you vee pond to it and i didnt get it . You read it . Did you respond to it . I personally did not. Did my staff respond to you . I dont know. I think we did from some inner Governmental Relations<\/a> person sent us a paragraph. It did not in my opinion it did question. My i can answer now. The reason im asking you this, is it your practice when members question. Of the United States<\/a> kgs sends a letter plirnl addressed to you that you pass it on to an i dont know what that person does relations person to say that they have received it . Of the us i did not address it to them. Many letters do not i did not address it to them. Many letters do not many members of congress . Do not get personally to you. I did not address it to them. Many letters do not many members of congress . Do not get personally to you. This with you to you. Somebody else is actually looking at it. So people write me personally all the time but if a msh let me ask you a different question. If a member of congress is writing to you about issues that youre coming to testify before this committee, you say so what and you dont answer . No. Someone goes through it first. And then they bring it to me. My time. Im going to resend a wletter and im going to ask you would you answer the letter coming from me and 20 other members of congress . When the letter is brought to me we will give you a response. We or you . I would like to ask will you respond . I can respond to you right now. Weve spent a lot of time talking about the virgin islands. Do you think it was proper to throw paper towels . Thats a not a yes or no question . Wasnt . T was or no it i dont believe. The second question do you think it was president ial when President Trump<\/a> talked about to members in puerto rico that they were messing up wasnt . I dont believe. The second question do you the it budget . Is that president ial yes or no . I think it would be wonderful if we talked about what we can do to help our people. Do you think its president ial how many people had died and then compared it to a greater number in katrina . I think we should be talking about positive things and what we can do. For me positive like the all my life i wanted to be on this committee. My my dicated 25 years of life. My first professional job was working in Public Housing<\/a>. In this committee, chairman of the securities and Exchange Commission<\/a> testified before this committee. He said although he had not asked for more funding in fiscal year 18, that in fiscal year 19 he would be requesting more money. In fiscal year 18, the budget request from h. U. D. , you requested a 15 cut to your budget. Will you be asking for an increase in yoush in fiscal year 189 . 19 . We may well. We continue to ask for what we need based on information that we derive. So evidence is what drives our udget request. Thank you for appearing today and thank you for the character, integrity, heart and class and aspirations that you bring to your position. Many people would say that you had maybe one of the best opportunities in the world to become a failure. To be dependent on government. You proved all the critics wrong and you became the model of success of achieving the American Dream<\/a>. And proof that anyone can do it. And i applaud you. I think a lot of people applaud you for that. And i applaud you for trying to help other doss that, too. Unfortunately theres a lot of people that somehow benefit from people being dependent on government because they think it keeps them being elected. I think selfsufficiency is the way to go and you obviously do, too. Nd thank you for your efforts, too, to transfer people. T i want to apologize for some of the mean and nasty comments made towards you today. Theyre undeserving theyre attempts to shame you while ey criticize the government, that may be logical to some people but im sure its probably foreign to you. Im used to it. Most innocent people would. Most intelligent people would. But we do the right thing for the right reasons, which you have a history of doing. Your initiative to reimagine how h. U. D. Works, to restore the American Dream<\/a>, and to rethink American Communities<\/a> is an awesome plan and my question to you this morning is how can we become more engaged in help youg achieved those goals . Thank you very much for your omments and for that question. I will be coming back to you particularly as we continue to analyze what works. Cause in order to be efficient, we need the ability to be flexible. And to be able to address things quickly so that we dont have to go through so many channels. Were not just going to come to you vaguely with Something Like<\/a> that. Were going to say specifically we need to do x and whnch so we can get to z quickly. So just be open to that. We want to work with you. To benefit from your collective knowledge, experience, and the fact that to benefit people. And we are public servants. That means we work for the people. They dont work for us. Therefore, we need to know through you how people. We can serve them. But we want to work through you to do things in an effective way. Thank you, mr. Secretary. You can always coupt on me and probably most of the people here for our support. God bless you. Thank you. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from washington. Thank you, mr. President. Secretary carson, ive been interested since i first arrived here in the reverse Mortgage Market<\/a>. We were able to pass legislation giving you more flexibility at the department to run the program with an eye ward improving its financial performance. But its always been hard to get a good sense of how the program is doing because the actuarial numbers swing so wildly from year to year. In addition, although the program is small compared to the fha forward Mortgage Program<\/a>, the swings in reverse mortgages are so large theyre pushing around the capital mmi reporting cycle yet for th ct war on terror reporting but i actuarial reports but i want to know mmi fund and affecting mortgage premiums for the more stable forward program. I know you havent been through a if you will be open. Im asking g. A. O. To consider options to include moving the program out of the fund or creating a new forecasting assumptions for the reverse program that would create more stability over time and from year to year. What are your impressions . I think thats a very worthy thing to pursue. Were looking at just over the 7. 7 billion out of the mmi because of hcm. The changes that weve 7. 7 bill of this month and all the ones Going Forward<\/a> from this point i dont think will have that problem but we still have the esidual problem. So yes i believe that would be a worthy pursuit. Secondly, i want to ask about housing. So yes i believe that would not just an observation on the if you remember of programs, im talking about policy making itself. So even if you look at congress, for example. It may be that a bunch of narrowly tailored programs is the best way to address housing although i although i frankly it. But as a result of the silos i think we address the problem, each of the problems inlation. All the parts are connected and especially through housing crisis. Youre new to this. So my hope is that youre kind of looking at it with fresh eyes. Im wondering if you see the same thing i do, that we deal with this in a fractrd and fragments way. If you do, douf any ideas about how we might be able to address it so that we can all get about the business of ensuring not just keeping the dream of Home Ownership<\/a> alive for americans, but also ensuring that everybody has a good place, a good shelter, a good home in which to reside. I say, the number one priority ought to be here blanket, pillow, roof. If you dont have a pillow, a blanket and a roof over your head, all the other problems in life get amplified considerably. We do have to make sure that we are willing to work across different silos. We have a good program. It needs to be able to follow the jobs. Brings dignity. The ip centive of private capital coming into the market to partner with h. U. D. Is very crucial. I guess my concern is weve seen some successes in that regard and not only the capital but also the discipline and counseling thats necessary. The Family Selfsufficiency Program<\/a> one that has shown some success. Do you think thats been a program that we should continue o not only fund but to expand . i \u00bf finally the moving to work program. What more can we do for those who are nonelderly and work capable to provide them with a moving to work insentivecentiveincentive. People have tried different it rationerations of that over the years. As they start climbing the ladder, we pull the rug out from underneath them. Weve got to let them get far enough up he ladder that theyre not even looking down to see if their rug is there anymore. We need to understand how that works and the timing of it. Id like to see it expanded. It is a Pilot Program<\/a> right now. Weve seen it in orlando. Its working there. With that, my even looking down to see if time is up. Chair now ecognize gentle lady there new york ms. Maloney. Id like york ms. Maloney. Id like to build on congressman rosss questions about Public Private<\/a> artnership. Youve discussed your support for it in ddressing our Housing Needs<\/a>. But in your 2018 budget request you target programs that encourage these partnerships. Personally to leverage, as you said, is so important. There are not enough dollars out there in Affordable Housing<\/a>. One in particular, 202, senior housing, theres always a waiting list by seniors needing the housing but also developers who are willing to put it up. But the funding hand been there. Im glad to see theres more in this budget, but still its been cut i. Show less text back dramatically, quite frankly, from when i first came to congress. How can you think the administration can encourage Public Private<\/a> partnerships if its budget largely cuts out the governments role and cuts the funding for the governments role in the relationship . Thank you for that question. I understand the basis of it. You now, heres the situation. Would we like to have almost Unlimited Money<\/a> to deal with these problems . Absolutely. That would be ideal. But we dont. And we have a 20 trillion national debt. Now, im not going to have to pay it. You probably wont either although youre younger than i am. You may have to pay some of it. Thats true. I want to et onto another question. If you put your money into things that leverage more money and more housing, its certainly a dollar well spent. And the budget does cut the private Public Partnership<\/a> section. And my request is to see if we can Work Together<\/a> to see if we can restore some of it. Absolutely. Id be happy to work with you. I want to invite you to my district. I represent a lot of hud projects. May if youre ever in new york, wed love to set something up for you to look at some of the things we have going on the ground. My district is very different. As you know, in new york people dont live horizontally. We live vertically. And we live in coops and condos. And people re asking for you to revisit opening up assistance to first time homeowners. Thats been one of your themes. Right now especially seniors are asking if the coop owners could be part of huds reverse Mortgage Program<\/a>. This is the type of housing i represent. And right now coop owners are unfairly excluded from fhas reverse Mortgage Program<\/a>. I would say for no real reason. So my question is will you consider allowing owners of housing coops to participate in fhas reverse Mortgage Program<\/a>s . I certainly dont see any reason why we shouldnt engage in that conversation with you. Well, thats great. And lets look at the numbers and let see what works. Im doing things that make sense. Thank you very much. Because people are requesting that, particularly seniors and we have not been able to achieve that. This would be a great break through. Thank you. Absolutely. As you know, fha plays a Counter Cyclical<\/a> role in the Housing Market<\/a>. It expands in times of market stress, which we went through in 2008 when everyone else is pulling back. And it shrinks in times of market stability. Fhas market share has substantially diminished ince its peak in the housing crisis and has stabilized in these past few years. Despite this, some people continue to claim that the fhas plain and crisis and has stabilized in out sized role in the Housing Market<\/a> and demand that fha shrink. Do you agree that fha is currently playing too large a role in the Housing Market<\/a> . Yeah. Well, right now were t about a 13. 2 , which is sort of back down to the prehousing crisis level. It expanded during the crisis like it should. Its sort of like an accordion. Its a buffer. Thats the way its supposed to work. Thats the ideal situation. Doesnt mean there arent some reforms that were looking at to make it even more efficient. Generally it has a very positive balance. It allows people to be able to get into homes, particularly first time home buyers, a lot of minorities. And we want to make sure that we maintain that strength. Thank you very much. Time of the gentle lady has expired. The chair wishes to inform all members that we will be excusing the witness at 12 30 today. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina<\/a>, mr. Pittinger. Thank you again for being with us today. Your demeanor and patience has been exemplary. I have so much appreciation for the focus and clarity of mission that you bring, your Life Experience<\/a> offers so much for each of us to pay keen attention to. I particularly appreciate all of our continued efforts on behalf of those individuals who are suffering of course from the natural disasters that have occurred in our country. We behalf of those individuals who have seen unprecedented damage that has been caused by Hurricane Harvey<\/a> and irma and mariah mariah. Our hearts go out obviously to the victims of all of these awful storms. As youre very much aware a year ago Hurricane Matthew<\/a> struck North Carolina<\/a> with subsequent housand year floods severely damaged 98,000 homes and 19,000 businesses. We still have 150 or so families that are still living in fema trailers. Its affected our poorest counties in our state and frankly some of the poorest counties in the country, bladen and cumberland and robinson. Some of these counties we hope to show you hopefully in early november when you can return to our state. What i would like to ask you, mr. Secretary, is what can you say in terms of what the department is doing on longterm Disaster Relief<\/a> for these areas that are not in the media and are not on everyones attention but the pain and suffering is still there. What can you say is being done currently . Thank you for that. And thank you for your extremely good advocacy for the people of North Carolina<\/a>. I did have a scheduled visit there, as you know, recently and then this little problem called harvey came up. But we are rescheduling that visit to look at that very issue in terms of, you know, the longterm recovery function. We didnt get the final plan from the state in terms of recovery until the 21st of april of this year. Yes, sir. We are working with your state and local officials already and well continue to do so. But we have not by any stretch of the imagination forgetotten about that just because these other ones have come up. Are you comfortable that hud has mechanisms in place to assure that money is spent in a fiscally accountable and timely ay. For some reason im not hearing well. Are you comfortable that the states have accountable structures in place that the taxpayer money earing well. Are you s being used in an appropriate way . Let me put it this way. Way . Let me put it this way. At the state level, there seems to be more accountability than there is frequently at a lower level. So one of the things that im finding just in looking at past data in terms is being used in an appropriate of efficiency, you know, working with the state tends to be a little bit better than working with 100 different municipalities. Yes, sir. My district is, you may be aware, includes charlotte. Its a major metropolitan area of ur state. Ive got seven other additional Rural Counties<\/a> and i would like to ask you, what is huds involvement in these rural areas particularly and the value that it can bring to these communities . One thing that sometimes people assume is that hud is not interested in rural areas because its called housing and urban development. Additional Rural Counties<\/a> and i but obviously if you look at programs that we have and those in association with usda, we do pay quite a bit of attention, maybe want to rename the department at some point to reflect that. Theres particularly large issues with poverty and with drug use in the rural areas and we are working across the silos with the department of justice and department of agriculture on those issues. Hank you, mr. Secretary. Thank you again for your great spirit you again for your great spirit and your clarity of mission and dedication. We truly appreciate you. Thank you. Gentleman yields back. Chair now ecognizes the gentleman from michigan mr. Kildy. Thank you secretary carson for being here. As i mentioned in my Opening Statement<\/a> and as we hatted briefly, im from flint, michigan, a community not far from where you grew up. And a community that has been struggling in many ways for decades, but in a particular way for the past few years as a result of the water crisis. And i referenced in your testimony that the department under your leadership intends to take on some of these issues of exposure to toxic chemicals and housing and lead is a very significant issue. You know as a physician the impact high levels of lead exposure can have on the brain of a developing child. This tragedy, while in the eyes of many is sort of over, its not in the news every day, its an ongoing struggle, not only in terms of the infrastructure needs which are slowly being met, the health and Development Needs<\/a> which are not entirely met and the redevelopment challenge this Community Faces<\/a> as a result of a real gut punch to the community. So the challenges it was already dealing with have been exacerbated by being known as the city of 100,000 people that had poisoned water, the impact on housing values and Neighborhood Development<\/a> is palpable and dangerous. In the Previous Administration<\/a>, we had kind of an all hands on deck approach to flints recovery and i was pleased to see during the campaign when then candidate now President Trump<\/a> visited flint, he said and im quoting him, this is regarding flint, we will get it fixed. It will be fixed quickly and effective effectively. As i stated, flint is not fixed yet. I reached out to the white ouse very early on and asked for a point person on flints recovery because there is a legitimate and important federal role in this. Have not received a response. Its important that we have some sense of who we can work with. To your knowledge, is there a point person . I havent been able to get an answer out of the white house . I wonder if youd have a sense of that, if theres a point person that we could work with. I agree that there needs to be one and im certainly willing to look im certainly willing to look into that for you. I appreciate that. Perhaps as we mentioned you and i could find time to meet. I have a real interest in the work of your department broadly. Id like to share some thoughts with you, but specifically to talk about how my community can continue to receive is thethe support that it certainly deserves. Hank you for that. I know this has been raised. I raised it a bit. The preconditions that led to the crisis in flint are not unique to flint. We have seen a lot of older communities and i heard the reference to not just traditional large cities but small towns as well that have not seen the kind of private investment and that still do require some public support for their Development Challenges<\/a> in order for them to be fully competitive and make the contributions that they should make. So i am really concerned about continuing deep cuts to the Community Development<\/a> and Block Grant Program<\/a> for example, a highly flexible program, a form of federal investment that really defaults to the states and in many cases directly to local jurisdictions, making decisions for themselves as to what their needs might be. As in the case of any program, there could be problems, but what i fear is that this administration and im really interested in your take on this is taking a throw the baby out with the bath water approach. This is a really Important Program<\/a> that is essential to lots of communities. Can you help me understand that your position is on this Important Program<\/a> . My position is we should save the baby. Dont throw it out with the bath water. The fact of the matter is, as ive mentioned before, there are multiple good things in these programs that have been very effective, some of which youve just mentioned. We will make sure that those things continue. I appreciate that. As long as we dont take the approach that the only way to help the programs is to just make them so small that theyre not consequential any longer. I agree theres a need for change. As long as the solution is not simply to eliminate the program over time, im happy to work with you on that. Thank you very much. Thanks for your testimony. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. Ruffus. My district is home to an Organization Called<\/a> hearth which provides Transitional Housing Services<\/a> to victims of domestic violence. They provide temporary shelter and protection from danger. Hearth has provided thousands of my constituents with a safe space. Hearth has a Compelling Mission<\/a> and it fulfills a priceless service for the community. This program has a strong track record because it provides residents with the services they need to transition to selfsufficiency. Despite this, hearth and similar provider are in danger of losing their hud funding unless they a abandon the high standards that have contributed to their success. This ties into the Housing First<\/a> policy in the context of drug treatment programs. Under your predecessor, hud adopted the Housing First<\/a> policy and deprioritized programs that failed to confirm to that orthodoxy. Weve told that hud will be less generous in funding transitional programs. I ask about their future place in our Housing Assistance<\/a> toolbox. I would generally characterize his response as a full endorsement of the Housing First<\/a> policy, which again is going to entail a deprioritization of transitional housing. I would appreciate your taking a look at this issue and your feedback on whether you think that we have to really keep our eye on the ball on transitional housinge inging and the context of this Housing First<\/a> policy. Id be very happy to work with you on that. But everything that we do is driven by the numbers, driven by the evidence, whats actually effective. When i talk housing irst, i may be talking something a little different than what the previous secretary was talking. We want tofollow up with you on something a little different this because we want to make sure this orthodoxy he was going after isnt negatively reflecting of good programs that have been beneficial to our community. I agree. The moving to work program, its been discussed today. I believe this Program Offers<\/a> flexibilityies that can help Public Housing<\/a> authorities better serve their local populations. One of the housing authorities does have a moving to work program. There are others that would like it. I want to hear from you whether you support the expansion of the moving to work program . I was very happy with the expanse to another hundred areas. Im hopeful that we can with the help of Congress Move<\/a> far beyond that. Id like to see it really transition from being a Pilot Program<\/a>. Its been a Pilot Program<\/a> since 1996. I dont know how long you have to have a program be a Pilot Program<\/a>. One of the three National Program<\/a> objectives is that projects principally benefit low and moderate income persons. Funds often end up being used for parks, pools diverting communities with the greatest need particularly in housing. In your testimony this past june you stated that the cbgb program is not well targeted to the poorest populations and has not demonstrated a measurable impact on communities. Can you elaborate . Some of the same things that you just mentioned in the question and some abuses that are even more significant than that. This is a program that again has some very good components and the things that are good in that program and home program and various programs, were not just going to abandon those things. Were going to obviously utilize that information in order to improve what were able to do. Rchgs you mentioned in your testimony earlier this year that the first hud secretary Robert Weaver<\/a> said we must look for Human Solutions<\/a> not just policies and programs. What do you think he meant by Human Solutions<\/a> . I hope what he meant is that we need to be looking at the people themselves, as opposed to just the concept of sticking them in a house and thinking that our job is done. If we develop the Human Capital<\/a> that exists here, iftt benefits us all. It sounds like that would still be as relevant today as it was when secretary weaver first said that. Would you agree with that . That would be the way that i would look at it. Thank you. I yield back. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Gonzalez. I yield to the Ranking Member<\/a>. I yield my time. I appreciate having the time. Sitting here and im listening to how much you care about the most vulnerable in our society. And how you want to help people become independent and out of poverty. Nd yet, your budget and what you are advocating for and what youre advocating against does not really define your representation that you care about these vulnerable people. Youre cutting Public Housing<\/a> by 2 billion. Housing choice vouchers by 800 maryland, project base rental assistance by 65 million. You have members on the opposite side of the aisle talking about perhaps funded by the community Development Block<\/a> grant. They dont know that youve completely eliminated that. The Home Investment Partnership<\/a> program we talk about the National Housing<\/a> crisis that we have, and the National Housing<\/a> trust fund is completely eliminated. And the Choice Neighborhoods Initiative<\/a> eliminated. And you know, section 811 housing for persons with disabilities cut by 121 million. And so theres one thing that stands out in my mind based on the campaign and looking at what happened in the primaries. And things that the president said and how he talked to you and others and demeaned you so much. One of the things that stands out in my mind so vividly is how he mocked and mimicked a disable disabled journalist. And so you have he has openly mocked disabled people and huds most recent Budget Proposal<\/a> which you supported and defended proposes a steep 18 cut for section 811 program which is focused on serving low income persons with disabilities as well as harmful rent increases on section 811 residents. This is very concerning in light of the Critical Role<\/a> that hud plays in providing Housing Assistance<\/a> for low income persons with disabilities as well as enforcing the Fair Housing Act<\/a> which protects persons with disabilities against discrimination in the Housing Market<\/a>. Do you remember seeing that displayed by the well as enforcing the Fair Housing Act<\/a> which protects president where he mocked and mimicked a disabled journalist in do you remember seeing the sight of that . I remember seeing the episode that youre referring to. Do you think it was wrong for the president to send that kind of message about what he cares about disabled people . Well, you know, im not really here to talk about the president. I really want to talk about the people that were trying to help. Yes, i want to talk about the people, too. Right now i want to talk about the disabled people. I want to toe ifknow if his attitude is such that it is reflected in the budget and youre defending the budget and are you defending in any shape form or fashion the fact that the person who wanted to be the president of the United States<\/a> of america for all people would treat disabled people that way . What do you think about that . As a pediatric neurosurgeon, a large portion of my patients were disabled people. All right. So you do care about disabled people. Is that right . Of course. When youre in front of disabled people who are advocating for resources to help with hair lives and they ask you about the president and the fact that he mocked and mimicked disabled journalists during the campaign and they asked you, do you defend the president in doing that, what did you say to them . I would say that im going to use the resources and the talents that e have to look out for the interests of the disabled interests of the disabled people. Were going to commit to making sure that theyre not. Do you think the cut of 121 million is a demonstration of your support for the disabled, section 811 housing for persons with who are disabled . I would say its not the amount of money. Thats the result that you get thats important. I cant hear you. Its not the amount of money but rather the result that you achieve thats important. You keep talking about the amount of money but you know your real concerns and what you care about is reflected in the udget. And it is difficult for me to believe that you really me to believe that you really care about the disabled when you are cutting the resources to them because of the difficulty in their lives and the tremendous needs that they have. It is difficult for me to believe you care about them with these kind of cuts. I yield back. Time of the gentle man has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Williams into thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you, sect carson for being here today and thank you for your testimony. Id like to thank you for reaching out to those of us involved in the baseball shooting. Appreciate that very much. I also want to thank you for your leadership. Ive been around leaders all my life. Youre a leader. Thank you for that. I want you for what youve done in texas. Im from texas. Thank you for what youve done. Texas with Hurricane Harvey<\/a> for reaching out quickly. Your response demonstrated swift action and resolute and texans are grateful for what you have done. And im also happy that in such a pivotal time for our country, history of our nation that your leadership understands the challenges we face. We talked about them today and understand the actions necessary to be the best possible steward of the taxpayer which is important. Thank you. While assisting those in need to achieve their god given potential. Mr. Secretary, i want to start by talking about fhas Mortgage Insurance Program<\/a> which so many in my district addressed with my staff and myself. Were aware of many complaints of god given potential. Mr. Secretary, i want to start by lenders being subjecteded to xtend the costly investigations and lawsuits by the department of justice for their participation in the federal housing administrations Mortgage Insurance Program<\/a>. While i applaud efforts to have penalize lenders who submitted false or feud u lent mortgages many are being asked to pay penalties for loans reviewed the department of justice for their participation in the federal housing and audited by the fha and hud. These forcing many lenders to eep them from participating in the program making it difficult the program making it difficult for many first time home buyers to purchase homes. Can can you explain what circumstances would institute a penalty on a the program making it difficult for many first time home buyers to purchase homes. Can can you explain what circumstances would institute a penalty on a lender after fha and hud approved their mortgage . It has been a problem because of all red tape and regulations. And theres so many traps involved. When people do things that are nonmaterial mistakes and then they find themselves in the kind of difficulty that would basically drive them away from even wanting to be involved in the first place. Ive talked to attorney general sessions about that. And my staff and staff from doj are working on those regulatory barriers that are precluding people from wanting to get involved. The hud workforce which you supervise is just short of 8,000 full time employees. In comparison, some federal agencies this may appear to be fairly lean. 8,000 is hard to saline. Given the responsibilities and scope of the department, many could argue that the organization is unnecessarily large. Do you have the flexibility and authority to right the size of the department if needed and moving resources, employees as needed to meet the goals that you and president have set . I think we have close to what we need. Weve come down from 15,000 to 8,000. In recent years. And are looking with a ery careful look at the actual need to hiring and bringing eople on. And utilizing them effectively and utilizing people in multiple areas in order to increase the efficiency, recognizing that we do have to be stewardsed of taxpayers money. Well, and then what challenges sand in the way of you organizing your department to achieve the best return on taxpayer investment which would be cost and return . Well what, weve done is effectively and utilizing with captains who are responsible. Who bear some fiscal responsibility so that we dont simply say to the cfo which we dont have right now, that its your responsibility. Nd i think the more we can distribute that responsibility and make people responsible, the more fiscally responsible theyll be. Lastly, one of the problems President Trump<\/a> made to the American People<\/a> was o direct this administration decrease regulation or to spur growth. Regulations choke growth. Since you assumed your current position, what steps have you and President Trump<\/a> take it on roll back harmful regulations in the housing industry . Well, we have established a Regulatory Reform<\/a> committee and they work through the office of the General Council<\/a> looking at major regulations. We have about 10 of them right now which were looking to be able to get rid of on the way to quite a few moremore than that. I yield my time. Time of the gentlemen has expired. The chair new ecognizes the gentleman from nevada, mr. Kihuen. Thank you, mr. Chairman and mr. Secretary for being here. And for sharing your testimony and also your time, as well. We know youre a very busy person and we appreciate taking the time to be here. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, as you know, las vegas was the epicenter of the foreclosure crisis. My neighbors lost their home to foreclosure. I lost my home to foreclosure. The American Dream<\/a> of Home Ownership<\/a> from all these families was ripped away. In the intervening years, las vegas has thankfully recovered. Folks have slowed down. Our economy has continued to grow at a healthy pace. Were adding tens of thousands of jobs a year. However, Housing Stock<\/a> isnt being built at a proportional rate. Were starting to see both home sale and rental prices rising at an alarming rate. Year over year, housing prices were up 13. 67 from september, 2016, to september, 2017. The Apartment Vacancy<\/a> rate is up with of lowest in the country at 3. 1 . In Clarke County<\/a> as a whole, we need more than 157,000 Affordable Housing<\/a> units but we only have 31,870 available. Like other cities, low income people cant move further out into the suburbs when housing prices increase in the las vegas area. Since the city is surrounded by desert. These residents are increasingly being forced to live in unan tenable situations or leave las vegas. Mr. Secretary, you have spoken before about the need for people to pull themselves up by their boot straps. However, there are situations like in las vegas where people have jobs, work hard had, but still cant get ahead in the Housing Market<\/a> where rental prices are increasing faster than their paychecks. Do you think theres a Government Role<\/a> in helping these people with Affordable Housing<\/a> . There is in the sense of creating the proper environment for the economy to grow. Because a lot of the problems that were having in housing . There is in the that regard is because wages re stagnant. And theyre not keeping up with the increasing cost of the housing. So that will be the solution to many of the issues that are going on in our country including some of the social issues because you know, people get more irritable hen theyre not doing, as well economically. Another question in huds fiscal year 201 Budget Proposal<\/a>, the home program would be eliminated. Nstead on relying on local and state governments to fill the gap, however the city of las vegas relies on home to expand Affordable Housing<\/a> options. What if local governments cant pick up the slack . Is it your state governments to fill the opinion that theyre just out of luck . And the federal government shouldnt be assisting them . We certainly are looking for state and local governments to play a bigger role. Theres no question about that. But in terms as ive said before of the good things that programs do including the home program, were examining those things and looking at the best ways to be able to continue them. Thank you, mr. Secretary. Last question, according to the executive director of the Southern Nevada<\/a> Housing Authority<\/a> your proposed fiscal year 2018 budget would make it very difficult for us to keep up with the maintenance of existing Public Housing<\/a> units. Mr. Secretary, i just read a slew of statistics that clearly show me were not going to needless Public Housing<\/a> Going Forward<\/a> but more. If our local experts are saying your udget is going to make it hard are for them to maintain what we have, how can we fulfill huds mandate of helping American People<\/a> put a roof over their heads . I hope that will be one of the ropes that i can count on congress to help lift the cap on rent. Because thats how are for them to maintain what we get rid of those capo backlogs. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back the remainder of my time. The chair recognizes the gentleman from maine, mr. Pol quinn. Thank you very much. Mr. Carson, appreciate you very much. Good to see you again. Thank you. Dr. Carson, i represent rural maine, not urban but rural maine. You folks might not be familiar with this but maine has the oldest average age in the country. Its not florida or arizona. Its maine. I worry about folks that live in the rural area. I worry about our seniors. And i worry about making sure we have a very strong safety net for those that are less fortunate than us. You know, even those i worry about our seniors, theyre also great teachers. My mom is 89. My dads 87. I love help to death. Im very close to my parents in their life and in their stage in their life. But i remember when we were kids growing up in central maine, it was a vibrant area with lots of paper mills that were humming along and folks were happy and taking care of themselves. My parents were always working. Thats what i remember. Im sure similar to your situation in some regard, dr. Carson. My dad was a teacher and a coach. He was always traveling. When he wasnt teaching, he was coaching or rather refereeing High School Basketball<\/a> around the state. Its an eighthour drive from one part of my district to another. My mom was a nurse and worked a nightshift at Nursing Homes<\/a> so she was home when my brother and i got back home from school. We grew up with compassion. During the summertime, they were working. Dad had a lobster what my parents taught me more than anything is not what they said, what they showed me it, honesty, compassion and hard work. My first fulltime job when i was 12 or 13 years old. I pumped gas at a marina, a little lake in maine. I worked 40 hours a week for a 20 bill. I was on my way. I remember the excitement and purpose i had getting up every morning and going to work. The next year i parlayed it into my next job working at a restaurant running the Cash Register<\/a> for a buck an hour. Now i get 20 working 40 hours a week. This is what i learned. Now, what i have found is that theres so many people, mr. Carson, that can look for the perfect job in retirement. You live long enough, you know theres no perfect job. Right. The value of work is the journey. You learn string of every job. You find dignity and selfpurpose. Thats what your kids see anwar grandkids ee. Thats the value of hard work. Now, i have one son who is 26. We are very close. Hes a hard worker. I worry about sam all the time. I worry about his generation. I worry about him less because he knows the value of hard work. I cant even imagine, mr. Carson, raising my son to say, okay, now youve had a good education. You know how to work. We want to make sure you sign up for every Government Program<\/a> you can find. And i know you believe the same thing. My question to you, sir, is you believe in the dignity and the serve purpose of hard work. And what it shows the next generation. What are you good folks doing at hud to make sure that our families are upwardly mobile, our families can escape government dependence and have better lives and Better Futures<\/a> more promise and more freedom . Thank you for that question. One of the things were doing, we develop this had concept called enVision Centers<\/a>. It comes from the bible verse proverbs 29 18 that says without a vision people perish. A lot of times when you go into low economic areas and you say to the kids what do you want to do when you grow up, you get a blank stare. Sometimes you might get a few things, maybe five things. But theres a thousand things and enVision Centers<\/a> expose them to other 995. And tell them how to get there. And also, to serve as a nidus forrership programs. Its been demonstrated by multiple studies that low income students who are mentored have a much Higher High School Graduation<\/a> rate than those who do not. It also facilitates child care because so many of the young women get pregnant and their education ends at that point. We want them to get their High School Diploma<\/a> to be able to get their bachelors degree, masters degree, become independent. More importantly, teach that to their children so we break the cycles of dependency ha have occurred. Its also going to be a nid dus for health care, for clinics, a whole host of things to really expose young people because a lot of them, they have not really been exposed to those things that are necessary in order to be successful in our society. Thank you for what you do for our country. Mr. Carson. I yield back my time, sir. The time has expired. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Green. I thank he witness for appearing, as well. Mr. Carson, mr. Secretary, dr. Carson, sir, you have indicated that there will be substantial cuts to the budget that hud has. Can you give me that dollar amount . Im showing its about 6 billion. Is that correct. Thats about right. About 13 of the budget. Yes. Would these cuts come from Public Housing<\/a>, housing vouchers, community Development Block<\/a> grants and other aid to low income persons . They come from a variety of sources. How much from Public Housing<\/a>, mr. Carson . Probably in the neighborhood of, if you combine all the programs, 2 billion to 3 billion. 2 billion to 3 billion. How much from Housing Program<\/a>s, 2 billion to 3 vouchers, mr. Carson . Rather than go through a quiz on all the numbers its not a quiz, mr. Carson. I have the time to ask you questions about things you should have some knowledge of. If you have no knowledge of them, you can simply say so. Ill accept it as an answer. This is something thats within your bailiwick, my dear sir. How much from housing vouchers . Again, you know, i can give you that number. But well, if you would give it to me, i would greatly appreciate it. Id like to go on to community Development Block<\/a> grants. Heres my point. I agree with you that its difficult to do these things. That has little to do with my question. Youre answering a question im not asking, to be candid with you. Will you kindly tell me how much hud is going to how much youre going to cut from the hud budget as it relates to housing vouch ers. If you dont know, its okay 0 say you dont know, mr. Carson. I dont hold you to things you dont know. Lets just move on and say that i dont want to offer a number because its subject to. Why would the secretary of hud not give the number, the amount that youre cutting from housing vouchers, mr. Carson, that i dont want to offer a youre the secretary of hud. Youre making the cut. Because weve already talked about the total amount of the cuts. Well, the total amount does not help me when it comes to the housing vouchers. I have people who use housing vouchers and i need to explain to them, mr. Carson, how much the cut portends for them. How much, mr. Carson . Lets hear your number. Well, mr. Carson, fib me for coughing while speaking, but mr. Carson, oure the witness testifying today. If you want a moment to ask someone behind you, i would gladly accord to you that moment. I dont want to open the book and look at the mub numbers. I see. So you choose not to say how much youre cutting from housing vouchers. How much are you cutting from Community Block<\/a> grants, mr. Carson. I want to talk about. You dont get to talk about what you want to today. You get to talk about what i want you to talk about. You get to answer questions that i pose. I also get to answer the question i want to. If you want to show a lack of knowledge, you can do this. Its quite all right. How much from community Development Block<\/a> grants, mr. Secretary . Again, im not willing to sit there and. So you dont know how much from community Development Block<\/a> grants . Im not going to go through the list this much, this much. Ill move on. I accept your lack of knowledge. Mr. Carson, there seems to be a belief among the ranks of those who have opportunities to help others who have been blessed themselves. They seem to think that the rich need more, that the poor can do more with less but the rich will have to have more to do more. Mr. Carson, if poor people could do more with less, there would be no poor people. Poor people are not poor because they choose to be. I november about your state of mind comment. But theyre not poor because they choose to be poor. Have you not noticed just for edification purposes and im sure that youre aware of it, but there may be people who are listening who are not black unemployment, mr. Carson, is always with some exceptions about twice that of white unemployment. There are many reasons for this. But that fact has a lot to do with what eople can do with money that they have and what they cant do with the money that they dont have. There are other factors involved in this country other than a state of they have and what they cant mind. There is still, mr. Carson, invidious discrimination in the United States<\/a> of america while you may not suffer it, there are others who do. And they need to know what you plan to do and i regret that youre unable to tell us today. I yield back the balance of my time, mr. Chairman. The positions that you ascribed to me are your opinion of what i think. Theyre not what i think. Mr. Chairman, if he chooses to respond and say this it, id then ask that i be allowed know that my positions. The time of the gentleman has expired. Articulated and did not. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from new york, mr. Zeldin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary carson, is there anything that youd like to say using my time . Oh. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. You know, sometimes i get a little it tired of people ascribing to me things that people have said that i believe. And i appreciate the opportunity to say this. When i say that poverty is largely a state of mind, what i am saying is that the way that people approach things has a lot to do with what happens to them. If your mindset is one that im a victim and that everybody else is in control of my life and i just need to sit here and wait for them to do something for me, youre going to approach life very differently from somebody who says, i am going to take this issue into my own hands. Thats one of the things that i learned from my mother. You know, she came from a very large rural family, got married when she was 13. Later on discovered her husband was a bigamist. Had only a third grade education, worked three jobs at a time. But the one thing about my mother, she was never a victim. And she never allowed us to be victims. And that was very important. And she did ha for other members of our family too who were in a very bad situation. And she convinced them that they didnt have to be therein an they came out of that situation. She was really quite an interesting person. Now, i realize ha not everybody has a mother like ine. But i also recognize that e as a society would do much better if we stopped sitting around trying to tear each other apart and start saying what can we do to change the attitudes and to create different outcomes from people. There are those who allow themselves to be manipulated into just creating dissension rather than trying to figure out a way that we can actually solve the problems. Isnt that what this whole government was supposed to be about . Representatives who can help us solve the problems, not people who simply sit there and try to tear things down and try to create dissension and try to create victimhood . We dont need that. We can do much better than that. This is the United States<\/a> of america. A place that rose from nowhere to the pinnacle of the world in record time. Why . Because we created an atmosphere of innovation. Were there mistakes made, were there problems . Absolutely. Are we a Perfect Society<\/a> . We are not because consist of human beings. Thats why we need a savior. But we really can do much better than what were doing if we stop fighting each other and start figuring out how were going to solve these problems. Thank you, mr. Secretary for being here, for your service. You are someone who wants to lift people up and provide a more opportunity not to keep them struggling but to have all of the abilities all the tools necessary to be able to rise up out of that situation for a better life. I feel like our country is blessed to have you serving as our secretary of hud. It is a calling that hopefully will provide great opportunity for you to empower Many Americans<\/a> desperate for your leadership to help them have that opportunity. Thank you. I wanted to speak briefly about veteran homelessness on any given night with hud numbers 40,000 veterans in the United States<\/a> are struggling with homelessness. Any veteran who raises their hand willing to be our country should have a roof over their head. They should have shoes on their feet. They over their head. They should have shoes on their feet. They should have food on their table so the ultimate goal for that number will always be pursuing the permanent solution of zero. We know that voucher programs which give fletch be the to americans struggling from Affordable Housing<\/a> has been shown to be more effective than the traditional Housing Project<\/a> programs. I applaud your efforts to move more to a voucher model at hud for all Housing Program<\/a>s. Earlier, you noted that the agency is making progress but that the hud Veterans Affairs<\/a> supportive Housing Program<\/a> is in need of more flexibility to get the vouchers in the right hands and in the right place. Additionally, you spoke about the expansion of Public Private<\/a> partnerships in increasing collaboration of your agency with local nonprofits to assist in veteran housing. I stand eager to work with you. Im sure many of my colleagues are, as well with the ultimate goal of getting to zero veteran housing hopelessness one day. I hank you again for your leadership. I yield back. Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady from utah, ms. Love. Thank you secretary carson for being here today. Id like to talk a little bit about the moving to work program which you know, is meant to give Public Housing<\/a> authorities the flexibility to pursue Innovative Strategies<\/a> to increase Housing Choices<\/a> for low income families. And ultimately, to encourage economic selfsufficiency. This program now operating at only 39 of the approximate 3,200 housing authorities in the u. S. Was authorized to expand to more to 100 more agencies more than two years ago through consolidated appropriations acts of 2016. Your department both under your predecessor and now under your leadership has moved slowly and cautiously on this directive from congress to expan that. Hud has missed some of its deadlines. From that viewpoint, some of our housing authorities looks like hud is trying to add more regulations to a program that was designed for deregulation. Two of my home state housing authorities of Salt Lake City<\/a> and Salt Lake County<\/a> are desperately awaiting the chance to apply. They see it as a chance to redesign and streamline antiquated hud programs to meet local needs more directly and successfully. How can we help you advance the moving to work program so that local agencies can apply for it and hopefully gain that flexibility that theyre seeking . Well, youve already helped me by that question because i wasnt aware that that was going on that we were trying to increase the regulations rather than decrease them. Thats the exactly opposite of what we should be doing. Well look into that. Can you tell us more generally about your assessment of the moving to work program . Has it been successful in moving more people to economic selfsufficiency . As we know, and i think that we can all agree on both sides of the aisle, that we should not be in the business of giving people exactly what they need to stay exactly where they are. We should be giving people opportunities to be able to have their needs met and then be able to move out of there and be contributing members of society and help their communities. So can you tell me how successful this program has been in helping people move and e selfsufficient . Yes. First of all, we discovered through this program that we have some incredibly innovative people. If we take the barriers out of their way and allow them because you know, they are able to see the community that they live in and see the opportunities that exist in their community. And therefore, they can design the program in order to take advantage of what exists where they are, not what exists in washington, d. C. And thats one of the reasons that the 39 programs had existed have done well enough that you know, the expansion was authorized. I think the expansion probably should be authorized far beyond another 100. Okay. Because it is working. And were continuing to accumulate data but it all is pointing in the same direction. And that is, giving local control as long as you have you know, responsibility. We have to have a way that we measure what theyre doing and make sure that you know, were not having any type of inappropriate activity going on. But as long as we have that in place, this has clearly the way to go. I just have two things i want to bring up quickly in the minute that i have left. According to cbo, ederal spending on programs to be low income families was be low income families was approximately 744 billion in 2016. To take into account 80 program is throughout the 13 different federal agencies, and that doesnt include the states that are helping out. Im trying to figure out how much goes to brick and mortars. One of the comments you had made and i think it was actually a good comment is that as a bureaucrat, youre going to be a fish out of water. I want you to be a fish out of water because it should be uncomfortable. You know, we shouldnt be sustaining bureaucrats. We should be sustaining people. And i want you to just keep conscious of the fact that these programs are meant to make sure that we make so that people can have an opportunity to get out of the system. We should be inentadvising Good Behavior<\/a> and people who are wanting to gets up and most people, people that are there they do. They want to be masters of their own life. I agree. They want that. Thank you for being here. Ime of the gentle lady has xpired. The chair expects to clear one more member in the queue. Chair new recognizes the gentleman from michigan, mr. Trott. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary carson, thank you for being here today. And i represent michigans 11th district which is Oakland County<\/a> and western wayne county. Im familiar. Were proud of your detroit roots and im happy to report to you that detroit is making clear one more member in the queue. Chair new recognizes the quite a comeback under mayor duggen. Absolutely. I know you visited. I was very impressed. As am i. So im the last person. Im going to end with a couple compliments. Ive been in congress about three years and more often than not, the witnesses that appear before us do what we call the old political pivot and they get a question they dont like or they feel insulted by or is selfserving from the person asking the questions and they talk about something else. Youve actually sat here all morning, ive been watching in my office and been here in the committee room. Youve listened o your questions and done your best to answer our questions. I suspect its because youre brighter than most of us and not intimidated by most of these questions. Youve been one of the more productive witnesses ive seen during my tenure in congress. I want to best to answer our questions. I compliment you on the president s choice and i think Brian Montgomery<\/a> is going to be nominated as fha commissioner. He served with distinction towards the end of the bush administration. I think hell be a great asset for you at hud. Lets talk about the fha program. Theres a great article from the housing wife from july of this year written by David Stephens<\/a> from the mba and it talks about the unprecedented use of the false claims act by hud and the department of justice starting around 2011 under president obama. False claims act is a very important federal statute promulgated under president lincolnton deal with profiteers who were supplying the union army and cheating the government, been used over the last several decades to deal unprecedented use of the false with Medicare Fraud<\/a> and defense contractors ripping taxpayers off. Im all for the false claims act being used. With you familiar at all with how its been used in the context of fha lending. Ing. Very much so. I believe you and attorney general sessions could easily solve that problem and the consequence of the improper use of the false claims act to impose outrageous penalties against lenders for immaterial detects and loan origination files on fha lopes, the onsequences are many lenders left the program and those that stayed in the programs most costly for the borrowers who can least afford it. Do you have any plans to quickly left the program and those that address that problem . We are already addressing that problem. Our staff along with the doj staff, and were committed to getting that resolved because its ridiculous, quite frankly. And im not exactly sure why there had been such an escalation previously. But the longterm effects that have escalation is obviously providing fewer appropriate choices for consumers. Thats the opposite of what we should be doing. Who can least afford it, too. Thats good news on the way there. I know the mba has done a great white paper on the who can least afford it, too. Issue. I commend it to you in terms of seeking out an easy solution that could be put in place without congressional action. You know, i dealt with hud for many years in my prior life. I always found, its been an interesting dichotomy today. Youve been attacked for the budget issues that you proposed for hud and some people think that we have unlimited amounts of money here in washington. Heres a debt clock behind you that tell you differently. But your answer has been a good one, which is im more interested in results than i am in funding. And weve got to get results for the people that need it and for our taxpayers. And in my experience with hud, youve talked about the reforms youre working on, the field offices need to be empowered. I groo he. Its kind of like tip oneals comment, all politics is local. The more the field offices can act and focus on results and department here in washington is focused on big picture, broad issues i think you get better results. I commend that to you, number one. And two, and i guess this is more of a lecture than a question. In my experience, it was very important that hud try nd partner whenever possible and not create like under should be partners to deliver results and again, the best results are delivered local and and not create like under secretary cuomo, it was an adversarial relationship between the local and state housing agencies and hud. They closer to home than here in washington. I commend that to you as you look at reforms and i believe my time has expired. I thank you for your time today and thank you for your testimony. One of the more productive mornings ive spent here in committee. Thank you. I think last time i was on the Judiciary Committee<\/a> last congress. Attorney general lynch said i dont know, i cant help you 74 times. The time has expired. The chair now recognizes the Ranking Member<\/a> for unanimous consent request. I would like to submit the National Housing<\/a> law opposition to the funding in hud. Particularly the 3 billion in cdbg. Without objection. Lost and substance abuse. Without objection. 9 million will be lost. Id like to thank secretary carson for his testimony today. All members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witness to the chair forwarded to the witness for his response. I would ask secretary carson, you please respond as promptly as you are able. This hearing stands adjourned. Thank you. President trump joins the summit. Live on cspan 2 at 8 45 astern time. President trump cspans washington journal life every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up this morning, author. Oyd abrams discusses the future of health care. Be sure to watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 eastern this morning. Join the discussion. Weekend on American History<\/a> tv on cspan 3, saturday at 6 00 p. M. Weekend o. Audser of for their own cause on southern moral after black assigned to guard confederate prisonners. One might assume thats why they chose these black troops because in the 19th century most believed black men werent talented or brave enough to fight. At 8 00, ashley riley suesa on native americans and trade. In 19th century cafle. The ind yen man assigned to confederate prisonners. Are cow and theyre dressed really nicely. The t kind of showed you value that the value that missionaries played on the work that these cowboys did. That they were allowed to ride rses, which was forbidden to indians. And they dressed pretty nice. Sunday at 7 00, we continue our series of photo journalist with david valdez former director of the White House Photo<\/a> office under president george hw bush. If i Say Something<\/a> about his care and i take his photo and his hair looks nice, no one will ever believe this wasnt set up. So i just took the photo and wound up running two full pages n the magazine and then over the next 20 years or so it was in the best of life classic moments in life. Selected in was the issue one of the best photos in life magazine for the past 75 years. American history tv. All weekend every weekend. Nly on cspan 3. The twice yearly debates held in toronto look at global and political issues. The most recent debate centered on whether american drocksy is in crisis. Democracy is in crisis. Operate better under stimulus. 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