Evenings event. A few housekeeping notes, you saw signs on the door when you came in. We are being recorded by cspan. They will be occasionally panning the audience. For those that dont want to be seen on cspan for whatever reason, please go over to the pecan room. You can see and hear the entire program over there. Our contractual agreement with our guests requires that no one record either audio or visual of these debates. Please respect that. And please make sure your cell phones are silent. The debate structure this evening will be as follows. I will have we will have an opening from each of our individual guests. We will then have rebuttal for four minutes. Each of them will then have an opportunity to engage one another in dialogue. We have cards for you in your program. If you have any questions, please prepare them because we always do want the audience to have the opportunity to participate. I would like for you all to start now and tear off the top of your slip and make your determination with regard to your position on the resolution which is the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement will help bring about the resolution of the palestinian conflict. Vote no. You will have another opportunity to vote after youve heard our participants. The winner obviously we are all the winners tonight being enlightened by these two intellectual giants of our time the winner of the debate will be determined by who sways the most votes. The proponent for the proposition is dr. Colnel west. Hes a professor of the practice of public philosophy at harvard university, and he holds the title as Professor Emeritus at princeton university. He has taught everywhere you would want to learn. Hes taught at Union Theological seminary, the yale university, harvard, of course, and the university of paris. He received his p. M. A. And ph. D. In philosophy from princeton. He graduated from Harvard College magna cum laude in three years. Hes extensive author. Sizz seminole books, one of the greatest books i have ever written ever read forgive me and i am privileged to have a copy, race matters. He lectures regularly in a vast variety of subjects. Were delighted to have dr. West here with us. We also have Professor Emeritus alan dershowitz, born in brooklyn, new york, the preeminent civil rights lawyer of our time. Hes a felix frankfurt professor of law at harvard law school. In addition to numerous books, hes written one recently. He would like all of you to read and digest called trumped up. How criminalization of political differences endangers our democracy. Ladies and gentlemen, please, a warm welcome for our guests today. [applause] it will be my job to keep time. I will do so carefully when you hear the chirp, it will be time for you to finish, not your thought, but your sentence. And then to yield the microphone. The topic to be discussed, be it resolved, the boycott and divestment and sanctions movement will help bring about the resolution of the israelipalestinian conflict. The proponent for eight minutes will be dr. West. Dr. West thank you so very uch. Thank you so very much. Let me say i am blessed to be here. I want to thank my brother who has created a salute to the moral dimension of the u. S. Republic. Why is that important . Its important precisely because of the ever graph of david, the first Prime Minister state of israel, march, 1949. June, 1963. He said, the state of israel proves itself not by its material wealth, not by its military might or its technical achievement but by its moral character and human values. One of the great contributions we have seen when our precious jewish brothers and sisters dealing with indescribable evil generated by hitler and others jumped out of the burning buildings of europe and landed in the middle east where there were both jews and arabs. Some of those arabs later called themselves palestinians. And the question would be, would they go with Albert Einstein and say let us coexist or would they go with others saying let us dominate . Very much like the founding of the United States and canada and new zealand and australia, all of them with democratic visions but also settler societies concerned with expanding and ending up dominating and subordinating people who were already there. So it is with this very, very fragile and precious experiment called the state of israel, on the one hand, how do we avoid any ugly antijewish prejudice, contempt, hate red and hatred, and at the same time how do we stay in contact with the humanity of our arab brothers and sisters . My question to you is do we really believe that our response to the occupation and colonization that the movement is concerned about, if it were a palestinian occupation of our precious jewish brothers and sisters, would we have the same response as opposed to the Israeli Occupation of palestinian brothers and sisters . What i love about this place is , thomas he words jefferson, but i saw a picture of Martin Luther king on the wall that brother harlan put there and his concern is what . That a palestinian baby has precisely the same significance and value as an israeli baby. Just like a white baby, a brown baby, a yellow baby, whatever. No Matter National identity, no matter sexual orientation, no matter what skin pigmentation, the moral and the spiritual challenge, my argument is b. D. S. In way perfect, having its own internal tensions, variety of different voices, the reason why i joined that movement is not because i dont have criticism of the movement. Of course i do. And my dear brother, omar, knows that. Hes the founder of the movement. He lives in ramallah. Its the last nonviolent effort to try to ensure that the moral character and the human values of a settler colonial enterprise that has involved leading expansion and toward in the language of our dear brother jimmy carter, a full fledge apart tied. Not because apartheid. Not because israel is in any way to be compared with the south african apar thide regime in all of its reforms, those palestinians Apartheid Regime in all of its reforms, but those palestinians are but those precious brothers and sisters in the west bank, in gaza. Bishop tutu says its worse than apartheid. Thats a moral issue. Brother alan and i goes back many years, he allows me to lecture on the source of law. We had some good times together at harvard law. We shall continue to have good times even though we have deep disagreements on this issue. Thats precisely what this temple of learning is all about based on brother harlans vision. But most importantly it has to deal with the future of not just the middle east but also the future of the United States given our intimate relations with the state of israel. What kind of moral character, what kind of human values are are we ng to promote, going to forget the very ugly realities in gaza and west bank . Always forget the second class citizenship of palestinians inside of the state of israel. And are we to forget that almost half a million refugees still labor outside of israel and outside of the occupied territories . Its very difficult in the United States to have a candid, robust, honest conversation about our relation to israel and about the complexity of our precious jewish brothers and sisters in israel and our precious palestinian brothers and sisters under those occupied territories, but it is a new day. One of the great taking place is especially among the young jewish brothers and sisters in the United States who have been critical of their elders. You have not told us the truth about 1948 or the 750,000 who are pushed out. You did not tell us about the killing of the villages were Young Abraham joshua. In april 1940 when he heard about the attack on innocent arab peoples and children. We come from the jewish people of ames and isaiah. With thes a christian love of any Palestinian Jew named jesus for years and. And the claim was what . Are you willing to treat the wirfin, the widow the wirfin, widow orphan, widow, black, white under Israeli Occupation in the same way . Do we have moral caliber . Do we have as this symbol is knowledge is fortitude . What is fortitude in the Classical Tradition . Courage and magna minute he. Gangsters can be courageous. Some of those not the soldiers were courageous. When you fuse courage and magnanimity, that is what we are talking about. Debate isat this about. One minute. I appreciate that. It will be a long minute. [laughter] dr. West i am just kidding. I simply asked you to a knowledge that we are approaching a new day, a new framework and a new paradigm in understanding the Israeli Palestinian challenge. For me, the most important issue will be, do we have this a socratic fortitude . The courage to question ourselves . To call into question some of the mendacious interpretations . Israel village in the jungle. No, no not at all. In the jungle where human beings had their own rich civilizations, just like when we arrived in the states and acted as if there was just awfuls and indians but no people. A lie. Where is our commitment to the truth, and the condition of truth is always, as brother Martin Luther king jr. Reminded us, the condition of truth is always to allow suffering to speak across race, class, gender and sexual orientation. Again, i want to think my dear brother harlan for bringing me back. I want to thank brother alan for allowing us to take off and engage in this intellectual struggle together as we smile and shed tears. We are both concerned about the suffering on both sides of this very, very delicate and ugly divide. [applause] dr. Dershowitz that was a very stirring and effective presentation. I am so glad to be heard today. It is very hard to have a serious conversation about the israel palestine conflict. I have been prevented from doing so at several universities by students who have tried to stop any kind of proisrael speakers. I myself have long favored a two state solution, i am not a particular fan of israels settlement of policies, but the debate today is whether or not bds, boycotting only israel and singling out for sanction will help bring about peace. My position is it will hurt the peace process. But i have to correct a few first, facts that my friend laid out. He called israel a colonial settler state. Well, to be a colonial country, you have to be working on someones behalf. The jews who came to palestine to join their brothers and sisters who had been there for 3000 years, came from russia. Were they there on behalf of russia . Were they there on behalf of Great Britain . They were fighting against Great Britain. Were they there on behalf of poland . Of course not. The word colonial does not fit an Indigenous Movement that started with people who lived in countries around the world, but who had relatives and coreligionists living in spot. When they did a Population Survey in 1840, they found a majority of residents in jerusalem were jewish residents who live there for centuries and centuries. Then came the holocaust and, of course, the holocaust was a bedded, tragically, by some of the leaders of the palestinian movement. They saying jerusalem collaborated with hitlers and was named as a war criminal. He tried to prevent jews from escaping the ovens and coming to what was then palestine. He was named as a war criminal. After the war he went to egypt where he and other former nazis helped to create the moment to try to destroy israel. This has a history. I think many people around the rooftop thought that the best resolution would to be two states for two people. A jewish state, a nationstate for jewish people, and a nationstate for arab residents of palestine. In 1937, the Commission Proposed that and the jewish people in palestine agreed and accepted it. The palestinians rejected it. The head of the palestinian s said, there is no such thing as a Palestinian People, we are just part of the greater arab nation. We do not want a state, we just want their not to be a jewish state. That happened in 1937. In 1948 when the United Nations divided the mandate of palestine into two areas, the jewish area had a majority of jews sought it was not a colonialist are settler regime. Those were allocated were jews in the majority allocated to the arab state or arrows. Arabs. Israel is accepted it, the palestinians joined by every other arab nation engaged in a genocidal war. There were refugees on both sides. Approximately 750,000 jews were forced out of countries they lived in for 3000 years. In babylon called iraq, in persia called iran, in a aleppo where jews have lived for thousands of years. There was an exchange of population. 750,000 jews left and a move to to israel, where they were immediately accepted and became part of the population. Approximately the same number of palestinians left for they were not. There were put in refugee camps and made to have festering hatred. Then the israelis, once again, offered a two state solution. They offered it in 1967 after they won a defensive war. They said land for peace and the palestinians and arab countries went there too. No negotiation, no peace, no recognition. In 2000 and 2001, president clinton offered the palestinians 100 of the gaza, capital in jerusalem and 4000 people were killed. In 2005, the Prime Minister of israel abandon the entire gaza and took out all the settlers and took all the occupation. Not a single is really was left. Not a single israeli was left. What happened . Gaza was used as a launching pad for rockets aimed at is really israeli schoolchildren on the way to school. In 2008, the Prime Minister offered the palestinians a better deal. Even more land in the western bank. The palestinians did not accept that deal. The idea of boycotting israel and casting all of the blame on israel really diss incentivizes disincentivizes the palestinians from making the kind of negotiated compromises that both israel and the palestinians while have to make. Why should the palestinians give up their right of return, or their claim to all of israel if they are going to win it by the bds movement. The leader of the bds movement twostateant a solution. He wants or to be only an arab muslim state. He wants only one state. He said there is no room for a nationstate for the jewish people. Bds is not directed at the occupation alone, except if you define the occupation to include tel aviv, and all the cities in israel. I think the bds movement makes it much, much harder to make peace. By the way, it is not really a moment. When you think of a moment, it is something that is universal. The feminist movement, the gay rights movement, the civil rights movement. Bds is a tactic. It is designed only against israel. It does not apply to all the other countries in the world, which have horrible human rights movements and histories. In fact, it finds its origin in the nazi boycott of jewish in the 1930s and the arab boycott 1948, which apply to all jews. Then it started interestingly enough, the current bds started as israel was starting as a state. It has nothing to do with occupation. It really took full force as israel was abandoning gaza. When israel does good thing and good things and offers the palestinians a state. When it leaves the gaza, the responses to up the ante and had even more boycotts and demonstrations against israel. I know for a wall man planet out of my brothers good faith. I think he really thinks that the bds moment is about the occupation. It is not. It is about them existing as the nationstate of the people. The zionism is a National Liberation movement of the jewish people. There are 40 something muslim states. The palestinian state, which i hope gets established, would be a muslim state under sharia law. Israel does not have a official state religion. The jewish nature of the state is naturalistic. Christianity, islam are completely a equal under israeli law. I would like to see the occupation end. I am hoping there will be some Movement Towards the ending. I believe very strongly that the bds movement is a strong barrier to peace. A strong barrier to palestinian negotiation. I hope you will vote to reject the bds movement and accept the resolution that will bring about a negotiated two state solution with an and to the occupation and an and to the settlements, two states for two people. Thank you, very much. [applause] eric dr. West you have four minutes to rebuttal. Dr. West i want to respond to my dear brother first on an analytical level. Liberia with a settler colonial state created by black people who look like me, went there and subordinated Indigenous People and name the capital after james monroe. They did not do that on behalf of anybody. They did that on behalf of themselves because they, like jews in europe, were being trashed, demeaned and devalued. They exited and tried to find a place. The land that they landed on had some other people there. I would reject my dear brothers s claim that every settlor colonial enterprise is something on the half of another empire. It is true and our beloved puritans arrived. They were persecuted, but it is also true that there were extensors of the British Empire and we needed Thomas Jefferson and others to engage in revolutionary resistance against that kind of imperial domination. In terms of the claim that the targeting of israel, there is no doubt that there are at least 160 countries that are more vicious than the state of israel. There is no doubt about that. But when we engaged in a boycott of south africa, and i was proud to be a part of that, to stand with brother Nelson Mandela, to stand with them we did not need to target every other repressive regime. We targeted south africa because it was wrong. We understood. Of course they have democratic practices in south africa, it was for vanilla brothers and sisters only. This notion that somehow those in the bds movement ought to