This year. This portion of washington journal, is 55 minutes. For key perspectives on Immigration Reform we are joined by daniel stein, president for the American Federation of immigration response reform and ben johnson. The four we get to your predictions, your hopes for 2018, ben jonson, what do you think was the most Important Development in 2017 when it came inthe issue of immigration this country . Probably the emergence of dreamers and what we do with the in thelion of young kids United States, the felt the fact that they have put a face on this issue, bart out some of the truth about immigration, who we are talking about when we debate immigration, those who make their stories note, i think that is transformative. We understand that these are doctors, lawyers, auto mechanics, cashiers, priests, marines. Does the whole panoply of things that they do to contribute to the United States has been transformative. Host what you think is the most important . It is framed by donald trump very aggressive campaigning on this issue. He laid out Campaign Promises and he was Walking Around with a 10 gallon hat and thing were going to deal with immigration, chain migration, a major priority and talking about bidding sanctuary cities, defunding sanctuary cities making sure officials cooperate. Hes talking about closing loopholes subject to all kinds of abuse, h1b programs, otc visa, lonal trading visa, jb said, these have become a bridge. In the country indefinitely until a green card comes up, but in the end hes 1979, this is some of chain migration doesnt make sense, moved to an American Adults ande you have children, and thats the end of the chain. Engage in a never ending process. Some here in the midst of this decided to categorize these people dreamers and crafted a bill and said we cant get an amnesty bill so are going to create something called dreamers, sympathetic group, people who came as minors, try to get a bill through that way. Havent been able to do it. Administratived amnesty for socalled daca, low betting standards and now suddenly we are being told this is we have to fix daca. Democrats are saying, ok. We want him to sign a bill that gives everybody amnesty, but we are not willing to give trump a single thing he wants, nothing he campaigned on, and thats why were not going to seep legislation of a bipartisan nature in 2018. Host do you agree with that westmark i think we can he major legislation. Major legislation has been within our reach for a long time here at it really requires people to stop playing politics. The goal of Immigration Reform is to peta system good for america. That means its good for American Workers, good for american families, good for american business. That is the objective of Immigration Reform. Theres a lot of important issues to deal with. Is fact that we have ignored this issue for some time, we have a number of undocumented immigrants in the United States now that have to be addressed. I think dans dark view of all of the enforcement things that need to be included in this bill i think are belied by what happened. And the truth is that donald trump has dramatically increased immigration enforcement. Who is it that he is not able to enforce this against . Where is the argument for more enforcement laws or language . He seemed to have no trouble rounding up and removing people in the United States. So lets set aside those kinds of political issues and focus on the fact that 122 of these kids that hes talking about are losing status every day. And they do deserve an opportunity to be in the only legal country they have ever known. Host explain what your group as . We are 15,000 immigration lawyers from around the country representing businesses and families and individuals, trying to help them navigate this competition system. Been around for a long time. Host and mr. Stein and the , federation for Immigration Reform . Guest we have almost 2 million Members Around the country at this point. We work to prevent the overcrowding of america by enforcing borders and setting a numerical cap on immigration and making sure immigration helps america and doesnt just serve the needs of foreign governments or immigrants themselves. Or employers who want to use immigration for lower labor costs. Host joining us until 9 30 this morning, taking your comments, your questions we talk about , Immigration Reform in this country. Democrats can call at 202 7488000. Republicans can call at 202 7488001. Independent callers, 202 7488002. A special line for border state residents in this section, 2027488003. You talked about a cap on immigration. . Hat would that be westmark we talked about a settlement and that was easy to accomplish, but the notion of chain migration is really a problem. Everybody involved in the drafting of the bill is still around and tell you there was a lot of naivete about the nature of migration from poorer countries and less wealthy countries and what did it mean to give priority based on a nepotistic system of chain migration. Instead of the priority being what you can do for this country it is basically, do you have a , family relationship . Or the proper degree you get in , line and you establish limits and that establishes waiting s. St there are two major reasons why we have ilLegal Immigration. One is the enforcement of the law. The second is family preference. Some people waiting in line for 7, 8, 9, 10, many of them are incentivized come in on a tourist visa and they never leave. Proper reform means going at all of the root causes of immigration chaos. What you have right now is anarchy. Democrats want immigration anarchy. Promote everybody coming illegally, let them stay. They dont come to the table to talk to donald trump about anything donald trump wants to get done. Host when it comes to that number you said it woulds the original number, do you have a number today . It would be nice to get it down to 500000 and phase it down. If you have immigration selection criteria that skews the demand declines and you can bring the numbers down. Host mr. Johnson, what would that change mean to get to 500 to 600,000 today there are about . Today there are about one million Illegal Immigrants that come into the country each year . More than that. That is correct. It would require a shift and it would be a significant hit to the economy. I certainly hope your Adult Children arent listening to you this morning and dividing families and making these judgments about who you include in your family and you dont . I think its not who we are as a country. We do have preferences. The first preference we have for employmentbased is workers of extraordinary ability. The second is professionals holding advanced degrees. Or persons of exceptional ability. So we already have a system that prioritizes people who are highly skilled and educated, bringing unique talents to the United States. And in the family category, the first thing we do is allow citizens and legal permanent residents to bring spouses and minor children. After that, you have a really long waiting list. Host ill give you gentlemen a chance to talk to the callers. And is up from tampa bay, the first line for independent callers. Caller good morning. Im glad to get on with the program this morning. Thank you for cspan. Will you answer, mr. Johnson, a couple of concerns i have with the Immigration Judges that belong to your organization . I heard a cspan informational saying judges actually belong to your organization and sit on immigration situations having to do with different states. And i am glad to get on with mr. Stein. I dont know if you know where i am, but i am in florida. And it is always considered not a border state but i have to tell you, it is a border state. And i am a little nervous that , but assimilation is a big issue in our state. And in other states. So when things are going to start moving forward for the daca program and the judge is deciding who will stay and who is not going to stay, based on their political leanings, can you both address that for me . Thank you. Host we will take that up. We have great relations with Immigration Judges but they are not a member of the foundation. They are attorneys who do not working for the government, working in private practice. But we do have a lot of respect and in common with the Immigration Judges. And we firmly believe they play an Important Role in the system. I think too much of the immigration decisions happen outside of the courtroom instead of inside the courtroom when a judge can look at the facts and make determinations about does this person to serve removal or what should the outcome of the case should be. Too often, decisions are made by Police Officers who made the arrests. And that is not the system of justice that we have in this country. So, probably leave her in the Important Role that immigration and judges and lawyers play in the system. Host the second question is assimilation. There is a profound sense that immigration has gotten way too high. Because of chain migration and previous amnesties. If you give amnesty to 2 million daca beneficiaries under the Current System, that could produce another 4 million or 5 million visas down the line for relatives. This makes it unaffordable, flow andt d skills the makes the American People subsidize unskilled labor. This is unmanageable. It also means we have a mismatch between our labor market needs and the skills based on the immigration flow. We are in a postindustrial informational system society. We have the economy competing worldwide. With massive immigration since 1975 and it has been growing. Since n immigrants automation American Workers have , in taking it on the chin and it is an hourglass economy when you have the wealthy at the top and a disappearing middle class because of this tremendous influx of low skill, lowwage immigrant labor. It iscan disagree, but important to tell the truth. The idea that one immigrant brings millions of other immigrants is simply not true. 3. 1 for relatives. Youre right. They often come with children and spouses lets be honest with each other and with the public about how long it takes for a brother and sister, as remote as you can get in the immigration system, it takes 20 citizenrs before a u. S. And it is only a u. S. Citizen that can bring a brother or a sister it takes 20 plus years. Does not depend on the country they are from . Right now all of you waiting list. 1997 is the backlog. Only people who applied before 1997 so, maybe we have a problem. Host one at a time. Prioritizing spouses and children over siblings makes sense. That is what the system does. And i think to your point about the American Worker getting it from all sides, i agree with that. There is no question that the economy has been a real challenge for a lot of americans. But is the only answer you are able to offer an american a scapegoat and an excuse then you really dont understand the nature of what theyre facing. Host one question i did want to ask. One piece of legislation being discussed right now is the dreamers act. How many individuals will be impacted if the dreamers act was made into law . It depends on the version youre talking about. The daca group is 800,000 with low vetting. They are not all valedictorians. Many of them are in their 30s now. Many of them high school dropouts, many have never learned english we get a rosy. I mean colored view. The daca people the , Lindsey Graham version of the dream act and the date durban version, you are talking about maybe 2 Million People and it could be 26 billion. Why is that . Low skilled. Access to various Public Benefits they dont have now host do you agree with those numbers . Guest no. Host this is the dream act being you are probably at one million kids that we are talking about here. And they have been incredible contributors to the United States since the moment they got here. And it is being cooked up by dick durbin . Yes and by orrin hatch, when the first bipartisan proposals we have seen on immigration and it has been around its 2000 when you had bipartisan efforts. If that was cooked up than they out to cook up more of these ideas. Host more calls. Larry is here in washington dc, a republican. Go ahead. Color tell the truth. The true amount of illegals is about 30 million. I have three coworkers. Two from cuba, and one from ecuador. They became citizens and they learned english. Thats what i respect, not illegals. Host i want to take up that number. 30 million Illegal Immigrants in the United States, is that accurate . Guest there is no censusbased estimate. It could be 7, 8, 10 million, could be more. The bottom line is, nobody knows. Because it is illegal. Although the democrats seem to know where they all are and want to get them into the voting booth. Host do you agree with that number . I just want to know if we can agree on the basic numbers . We can agree that 30 million is not an accurate number. I would agree that it is between 9,000,00012,000,000 in the United States. But hes talking about doing it the right way. The point is that the respect for law and the cornerstone for citizenship. Millions of people are breaking the law and jumping the line and they want an advantage because they broke the law. Thats definition of amnesty. Host to richard on the line for republicans. Thank you for joining the conversation. Caller i am 70 years old. Were i live in lexington, have a Light Factory and thousands of people lost their jobs. I didnt hear nobody say oh, those poor people, what are we going to do for them . It is always the illegals. They brought drugs to the nation and bombs to the cities. You know, today we cannot have an outside activity without having snipers on the roof. Thats not america. Cameras on every corner guest immigrants in the United States are not bringing in drugs or terrorism. They are here to make up better life for themselves. But i understand the pain you are talking about. There have been many places in the United States that have suffered through changes in our economy. And there havent been enough politicians paying attention to the needs and concerns of the communities. But as i read the war, the answer isnt to make villains and scapegoats out of other people. The answer is to focus on, what does it take to rebuild communities. And for some of those places, immigration is a big way to rebuild communities. There are many places that are losing population. There are places where bringing immigrants in helps to create jobs. It doesnt mean that every community is the exact same. But you need to demand of your leaders that they respond to your problem not with excuses but with real solutions. Host the president has proposed a solution about ending chain migration. Are you supportive of the rays act . Guest no. We have a merit east system. We can talk about how we can improve the system because it does need improvement and its congress had ignored it for many years. I think in step with our economy. But the truth is that we want and need high skilled immigration coming into the United States because we have needs of the highend of the skill spectrum. But we also have American Workers who are getting out of there less skilled jobs trying to move into high skill jobs so you have gaps of the other end as well. What you need a system that is nimble enough to respond to the needs of our economy and respond to fill legitimate gaps in our workforce and create a system where you have people who are following the rules. When a system is broken, it it becomes difficult for anybody to follow the rules. Host mr. Stein, i know you want to jump in. I like ben johnson a lot, but he doesnt represent people who bring immigrants in or i have no problem with that the interest is what matters. We represent millions of americans who think the border should be patrolled and immigrants shouldnt come in and take american jobs. The numbers shouldnt get so high that it is unmanageable. And it challenges both environmental preservation, cultural assimilation, and the ability to accommodate people. Donald trump has articulated a sound basis for reform the sound basis requests limitations overall and this is a decision about how many people come in and how to enforce the rules. Host a Quick Response . Guest dan is a member of my organization so it cant be bad. A good organization, but we cant our goal is to have immigration laws that are predictable and that can match up our needs as families and businesses with the immigration system. Question abouta the meritbased system. An undereducated wife. He daughters wife had a baby very simple. Thank you for the question. You are a doctor. You qualify as a primary beneficiary. You can bring your uneducated spouse. You can bring uneducated, unmarried children. Youre not bringing your dad, cousins, brother. It has to stop with packet migration. This is the family that you create. You get married and have children. Family that created you the point is, you have to have a rule of reason. Every commission that has looked at this has said we need to move to a Nuclear Family education and stop with the extended family. Host michelle is a democrat. Good morning. Caller good morning, mr. Johnson. I applaud you. You are doing a fantastic job sitting next to a man who i come in my view, see as a racist. Lets not call na