Representative democracy. Representative democracy at the college of william and mary. Globalization and populist movements rated these and other new developments are affecting americas democracy and any others. Democracy itself faces new forms of attack through the manipulation of social media. While collaboration among free nations is more important than ever, with it also seems more difficult than ever. What does this all mean for the future of the democratic experiment . America 400ere in years ago. Around thees it mean world . To help us examine these thorny issues, please welcome the moderator for this panel, chief Foreign Affairs correspondent for nbc news andrea mitchell. [applause] ms. Mitchell thank also much. It is wonderful to be back in williamsburg. A dozen years at the Colonial Williamsburg foundation as a trustee. Let me tell you how proud and happy i am to be here today. Commemorating this important anniversary. Panelists. Th these i want you to welcome place former United States secretary defense in both the bush and obama administrations, the chancellor of william and mary, robert gates. Bob gates. [applause] and also distinguished journalist, my colleague, my , robin wright. Or [applause] all, i want to say how pleased i am to be here today with both of you. And how important this is, this conversation to be part of the challenges tothe democracy globally. I do have my iphone with me. It is turned off. The last time i went on stage at a Foreign Policy panel without my phone, it was a year ago at the national secured conference. My producermy phone had to crawl underneath and crawl up on stage and had me a note to let me know that the white house had invited Vladimir Putin to the white house. I was interviewing the head of National Intelligencethe director of national intelligence. Dan coats. Thethis note just said white house has just invited persian. This was three days after the helsinki summit. So i asked the question. I think he said, isnt that special. Im talking about the former cia director and twice defense secretary a National Security official. We are here at a fascinated and troubling time around the world for global democracy. All, with the rise of populism we have seen around the world, poco crafters pressures from refugee migration. And the glowing effects the globe growing effects of Climate Change and globalization. Populations feeling alienated from the international elites. From multinational organizations. Not only since the economic globally in 2008. But what is now being felt in the u. K. With brexit. And as you heard today, in Eastern Europe as well, in hungary. And the political disruptors, hungary, poland, pakistan, spain, venezuela, brazil. To say nothing of what we are expanding here in the United States. Resulthis the inevitable of the post world war institutions being challenged . The end of the postworld war ii order . Are the multilateral institutions created in the late 1940s and 1950s at bretton woods, with united nations, nato , the other economic and military alliances that followed world war ii, are they now outdated . Are they in fact can tribbett into the sense of ammunition alienation we are seeing and pop license around the world . Against the ruling order . Tooounger populations, young to remember the cataclysmic events of the first half of the 20th century. Are they in fact contributing to the sense of alienation we are seeing in populations around the world . I can think of no to better people to join me then robert gates and robin wright. Robin wright, one of the great Foreign Policy journalists of her generation. Welcome both. Mr. Secretary, if i may 1 two you, lets talk about your thoughts on democracy. What is leading to the challenges . We had a remarkable surge of democratization after the collapse of the soviet union. There, for a. Of time, you had almost 300 Million People who had lived in , under europe dictatorships, under communist dictatorships, all of a sudden experiencing the fresh air of freedom and democracy. Extent, thattain has been sustained and most of Eastern Europe. It clearly has not been sustained in russia. We can talk about that. But i would say that there is extendsnomenon that of theu mentioned all Different Countries where we are seeing thispakistan to eastern france. O italy to obviously to britain. And even here in the United States. Is i think one Common Thread of dis on the part gust on the part of a lot of people on the part of the play, establish and, people who have been in power for decades. To an elite that is failed take their interests into account. That has failed to, in the wake of new technologies and in the new of all these different problems in terms of globalization and so on, has been has not responded in terms of how you take care of the ordinary citizen under the circumstances. My favorite example, actually, and the first example of this was in his fellow was venezuela. Corrupt40 years of Political Leadership across the legal spectrum led to such inussed disgust venezuela that they elected hugo chavez. And we all know what has happened since then. I think one element of this is disgust with the local establishment to not being responsive for knotting responsive with average citizens. Not being responsive. And feeling on the part of a lot of citizens the feeling that politicians were taking care of themselves and their friends and not wearing about the average joe or jane. The second was the economic crisis in 2008 and 2009. The elites not only cannot make things happen politically. They really screwed up the global economy. And they really screwed up the american economy. Come the recovery, the elites did just fine. But a lot of people who were hurt by the worst economic crisis since the depression, either took a long time to recover, or have never recovered at all. Circumstances,se the disparity between what they are earning and what they see the elitist turning today is so again,hat they believe that the socalled elites are taking care of themselves and not paying much attention to anyone else. I think a third that factor in a lot of these countries is that whole immigration and refugee crisis. Europe felt it in dramatic ways as a result of the civil war in successes ine isis iraq. And in syria. A Million Immigrants allowed into germany. And people seeing a threat to their culture and way of life. By these immigration flows that seemed uncontrollable, and where are all these people going to go, and how will they affect the life of my village of a and my town, and so on. And the fourth factor i would mention, and these are not exclusive, but i think they get most of it, a fourth factor quite frankly, is the effort on the part of russia to the greatest extent, and to a lesser extent china and probably others, to actually exacerbate all of these problems. And it is happening on two levels. The first is to actually have an impact on elections. Hacking into databases through hacking into databases, affecting the outcome of elections through the technology of the voting process. True voting rolls and so on. Putting up false ads. Through voting rolls and so on. Putting up false ads and trolling candidates. The second one is exacerbating our social divisions. Ethnic andto turn social conflicts and racial conflicts and every one of these countries, to make those worse. And to divide us. And furthermore, at least as far as me nato members are concerned, trying to turn nato members against each othersand we the alliance. The alliance. This is a pervasive problem. It is affecting us on several levels. It is not just the technical, how do we mess around with the election. It is, how do we make life hard for these countries. So i think, for me, this populist movement if you will, is deeply rooted in a resentment of above all, political but also economic elites, that a lot of people believe have forgotten the interests of average people. I will give you one civil example. When french president Emmanuel Macon the price of diesel fuel in france, all of these yellow vests turned out in demonstrations in paris. If you lived in paris or a big city, it was not that big a deal. Because you access metro and so on. But if you live in a rural area of france or if you are a farmer in france, that increase in the price of diesel may make the difference between whether you can survive or not. And it is as though that elitists in paris completely forgot about the potential problems this one move would make. In the interests, by the way, of a cleaner climate. But the effect it would have in a rural area. Ms. Mitchell an exacerbated legal conflicts have been exaggerated even further through social media robin, when you and i were first covering foreign conflicts and mystic politics, we do not have the instantaneous ability of the russian trawls and bots of the internet in st. Petersburg and other actors as well, to try to influence elections, whether is brexit or and the french election. Trying again we are told authoritatively from our intelligence community, to influence the 2018 midterms. This is an ongoing thing. Absolutely. The access to technology and literacy that comes with that in parts of the world and you see for the first time the majority of all literate cant medicate. They may not have High School Degrees but have access to technology and they have a broader perception of the world. You see that both for good and something that threatens. Broadly in ak more minute. But i will give you one very telling example. The way in theed arab spring in 2011, it was ignited by social media. Rapper, who young put out a song on his facebook at a time went when he percent of tunisians were on facebook. Tunisiansalked about living off garbage. Andgoing through school never learning to read or write. And it resonated. They got more galvanized. Thenng fruit vendor pressed for a bribe by a Police Inspector just trying to sell fruit on the streets in a remote saidian city, stood up and i wont pay it. And the Police Inspector took the fruit vendors produce and he went to protest because he supported his mother, his five siblings and his uncle. He went from Government Office to Government Office to demand his produce back so he can support his family. When he could not, he had no recourse, turned back and every post, he went to the governors his body and lit himself on fire. At that moment, the song from the unyoung rapper and literally the spark by this young food vendor came together and mobilized tunisians. This was in 2011. It ousted the man who had been in power for a quartercentury. It is important to understand. I went back to the remote town where this happened, when your later. ,nd i asked, how are you doing on the same Street Corner where he sold his fruit. They said we have far more freedoms and far fewer jobs. There was an international i wast tunisia as an International Monitor at tunisias first democratic election. The turnout in the first election ever held in that area the world, 22 countries, the level of turnout was among the. Oung two years later in 2016 as isis is appealing to people around the world, tunisia survived the single largest number of fighters. Tunisia is one of the smallest countries in the arab world. Smaller than florida. Isis. 000 joined another 9000 tried to leave the country and were turned back by secure divorces. Isis having reached out on social media. So you can see where this extraordinarily wave of democracy that we celebrate at the moment, and how it can be minute belated so quickly in the one country where we saw such hope. And to be turned into such people. Now if i can for a moment look at the broader trend and add to one thing bob said, we are all contemporaries. To i feel very fortunate call both of them friends. For the first half of our lives. The majority of fellow mocker fellow as a result of democracies arose as a result of insurgencies. Later, 54 of democracies failed because of insurgencies. Like a light switch, you turn them on and off. When they turned off a democracy after eight two, the light state offer decades. The lightoup, stayed off for decades. Democracies fail because we elect autocrats. Stunning, between 2000 and 2010, 40 of democracies faced threats from populism. And i have seen the transition plan out in my life. In the philippines i was reporter on johns plane. In 1981 he told Ferdinand Marcos the dictator, the gig is up. And he supported people powder people power that brought in a democratically elected government. But in 2016, they elected dutere. He was one of the biggest thugs on the global stage today. Challenging all of the basic tenets of democracy. , i enteredi covered the soviet union in 1991. I was banned from russia in the runup to the election last year, electing let a mayor pugh 10. He has now and empower as promisor president for 20 years. As Prime Minister or president for 20 minister trust 20 years. The last example is south africa. In 1976 whento schoolchildren led the first uprising to protest the government decision to change the government language of education from african lang which is to afrikaans the lang which of dust dutch settlers. That gave birth to the mass 15 years later that led to met Nelson Mandelas freedom. I went back to watch him walk to freedom. Today, the average battle average black in south africa is far worse off than under apartheid. Celebrate the great verse and the latest wave of mock democratization. But there are no notes ordinary number of threats. An extraordinary number of threats. One of them is the manipulation by social media and how states use social media to subvert other countries. Then coming together with the threat of populism. In some ways what we see evolving also a single party governance, something that lenin first created in 1917. Bob gates, and government you saw these trends. We see, frankly right now in america, and administration and bracing some of these totalitarian leaders, whether at her gone, cushion, dutere erdogan, putin, dutere. To what extent did the american bulls of james american principles of jamestown and williamsburg and our founders, have to drive or show as an , a broad interest in human rights and in press freedoms . There is andthink really since 1945, only one clear strong voice in democracy and for liberty. And that has been the United States. You cannot impose democracy on another country. But i will never forget talking to people like vaclav hobble in tech is voc yeah vaclav havel in chuckles voc yeah and let colace in poland abnnd lech. Alesa in poland and how important it was to them , not turbine intervene because we never did. But to know that we were out there and we cared and we were a voice for the principle of democracy and liberty. We helped them a lot clandestinely. The poles had the advantage, they had three different streams of covert assistance. One from cia, one from the aflcio, and by far the most important, from the catholic church. And Pope John Paul ii. But hearing our voice, knowing we were there, we were a beacon for them. Something they could look too. If we lose that feeling on the part of the rest of the world that despite all of our flaws. And believe me the rest of the world knows our flaws, we are not exact, keeping them a secret. But if the rest of the world knows that we stillhas always known that at least what we stand for and what we aspire to. E that voice is really important. It is important to, for the turks to hear, who are voting it itouble against erdogan. Is important for the opposition in venezuela to know. As important for the people and a lot of these countries we are talking about. So i think we have to be very hardheaded. As much of a realist as anybody. The reality is, the United States has done business with some of histories greatest monsters. Roosevelt never pretended to be in love with joseph stalin. In the real world, we have to deal with these people. But we do not have to embrace them. Leaders oftreat the authoritarian states, we can do business with them, but we do not need to embrace them in the same way that we embrace the leaders of democratically elected governments. Yourthink, andrea, to lose, i think that if we our willingness to be that city on the hill. To be that beacon. I think we lose a lot of what makes us unique in the world. And i think we lose a piece of our national salt. I think we lose a iece of our national soul. Think we can drive hard bargains with a lot of people, including the chinese. I do not think we ever forget who we are. What the roots are in places like jamestown. Ms. Mitchell and the obvious question with kim jongun, and some of the obvious questions. [applause] and what if we gotten for it, there were mitchell strikes just yesterday missile strikes just yesterday. Being a political and military ally, but there is jamarcus koji. Jamalthere is khaskogi. Im ever traveling with Ronald Reagan to moscow. He went to the investors residence and gave a speech to the russian people. The soviet than people. And Ronald Reagan did not mince his words. And that did not prevent him remarks on control arms control and Nuclear Reduction treaties with gorbachev. There is a balancing act and values have to in some fundamental way be sent to roll to who we are as a country. Pragmatic, perhaps not as pragmatic as some people in government have to be. But i recognize this fact. Is that a fair analogy . Absolutely. I have done this most of professional life. Sitting across the table in moscow from the head of the kgb, i would say that he and i probably did not share very many values. Particularly if we were having our dinner in a safe house that berea, been owned by a head of stalins secret service. That was a little airy. Eerie. Think you can blend sustaining your beliefs and values and promoting those values with a very hardheaded pragmatic vi