Good afternoon, everybody. And everybody who is looking at us virtually and everybody in the security line trying to get in and everybody who will be watching us sometime soon on a cable network. I am jane harman, president and ceo of the Wilson Center. Today we are probing a complicated issue that is bedeviling policymakers all over the world. At least three parts of the china, and the u. S. , the 5g supply chain. Produced, center has at me get my prop, this is spectacular policy brief by melissa. There is moreled, to worry about then while way. I think you get the gist of this. Walk to get this and read it. Meanwhile what captures the attention around 5g is the china has developed superfast networks which will power edge technology. Since Chinese Companies are required to comply with information request from Chinese Intelligence Services, officials are concerned companies who want to incorporate this Chinese Technology will and up compromising their data and data of their users. Beer ways it could compromised and we will talk about. While the mantra that defined the last decade of Technological Developments was moved fast and break things, just a suggestion maybe we should think about slowdown and assess. That is what you will hear today. What is the problem and what are some policy solutions to help solve the problem . Offersson center policymakers and staffers the tools to assess new technologies like 5g and the implications for National Security. Room, weuddites in the have given around 400 staffers in nearly 300 officers a foundation in Technical Skills through our bipartisan cyber and that takemps or labs place each friday. They are part of our science and innovation program, which is led by meg king, who is probably hiding somewhere. Is she here . Shes in the corner. She directs our socalled step program. Where these labs are housed. Come here onhave friday. The others have gone to our Foreign PolicyFellowship Program so they can learn Foreign Policy. Today we are talking about one talked aboutve here. We are delighted to welcome the man with the plan, fcc chairman ajit pai. The last time i saw him was in the hamptons in a warmer part of this year and possibly less hectic than the one we are in now. We participated in a panel and i learned a lot. He is the first fcc chairman to go viral. Thats cool. Often appearing in videos where he embraces internet memes while announcing new policy. That is cool. He joined the fcc in 2012, appointed by president obama and in 2017 he was designated as chairman by trump. Bipartisan. Love it. Doj, u. S. Ked at the senate, and office of general counsel and in the private sector. Today he joins me to discuss a commissionich the will vote on on tuesday. Following our conversation and audience questions, they will be a panel of really smart people who will introduce themselves. One of those has already told you is the author of this , what do we call this . Policy brief. Ok. Down and we are going to have short conversation. Get your questions ready. Thank you. [applause] the first question is a surprise question. The fcc is proposing to rules. What are they . Thank you for the question. I want to express my gratitude to the Wilson Center for hosting this conversation. The center has been the locus of some of the most important discussions in washington. I dont think there is much more important than this. Thank you for your leadership over the years. On thefound consistently assignments you had, you work with a sense of bipartisanship and a focus on the national interest. Very much appreciate that. Chasingike ive been you. We share the distinction of having served as a chief counsel on the constitution and the senate committee. You have gotten to Higher Ground than i have. Who was your chairman . You former house member might have served within the 1990s. This is an important conversation. Question, what is 5g . What does that matter . We have made it to lead in 5g technology. They are going to transform american industry, transportation, health care, agriculture and education, manufacturing and shipping. We have implemented the 5g fast plan for facilitating 5g technology. You can find out more information at fcc. Gov. It involves more spectrum, more Wireless Infrastructure deployed, and promoting more fiber deployment, which is critical. I could go into more detail on any of these components and what the metrics of success have been. With his future comes a challenge. The attack surface in terms of security is greater. 5g will be unlike 4g and 3g in that they will be software defied as opposed by hardware. It could be located anywhere in the world. Because we are talking about billions of connected devices, refrigerators and cars, we need to make sure protocols are thought of upfront. Is weited states position need to think about 5g security now at the early stages as opposed to afterward when retrofitting might be expensive. What is the fcc doing . We will be voting this week on a proposal that is forwardlooking and backward looking. The forward component involves our universal service fund. Overseas. Fund the fcc the money is distributed to Telecom Companies across the broadband inploy rural areas. One of the things we propose to do is prohibit the use of that funding from used by recipients on equipment or services that present a National Security threat. Based on legislation passed last include as a cte ontion huawei and the prohibited list. That is forwardlooking. The backward looking component is there may be problematic equipment in our networks. We are starting to understand where that might be, who is using it, etc. And also kickstarting a conversation about financing the replacement of that equipment to the extent we are talking about rural carriers who have incorporated this equipment and might not have the resources to do that. In consultation with them and others we want to have a sense of where we are right now. It is that set of proposals we will be voting on. What is the prognosis . Will it pass . I hope it will. Theres a time in which the political environment is tribal iced. When it comes to National Security, we speak with a unified voice. Is we will see a strong vote next week. That is what we have seen in terms of letters from congress. We said member saying we support your efforts. Fund asis using a u. S. A leverage to get companies to do something on a forward looking basis and to trade in technologies they may have purchased because there is Huawei Technology in the United States. The rest of the world is out there. How do you see this in a context isa world where huawei available just about everywhere . That is why ive been involved with some of my counterparts going to other countries and representing the views of the United States on these issues. Profilenize the risk applies to any company. We want to understand the framework of any company putting equipment into our network. When i have traveled through the middle east and europe, we want to make sure we have a common understanding of the risk, the strategy and how we can Work Together to share information about how it may be materializing. That is a conversation that is ongoing. Guess everybody agrees about the problem. I would doubt based on what i there are different strategies. And some countries will keep or by Huawei Technology. Some countries are exploring different strategies than the United States. To the extent to degree with the security assessment, we respect your right to make whatever decision you want. We do not believe this is an area where we can hope for the best. 5g is ato make sure forethought and we think carefully about the risk profile of any equipment internetwork. That is worthy. I can imagine another government saying, ok, we are worried about risk profile. Systems,ake sure our softwarebased systems unlike prior systems. Melissas paper helped me understand the difference. No easy point of interception. Did i get this right . Im learning. Even so, what about the answer that says we are worried about this and we are going to find in treason fight in choose in. But there could be intrusion from others. E will just fight that, i offer several responses. A riskbased framework applicable to any supplier. The question is a degree of risk. To the extentt china has a National Intelligence law that compels withompany to comply requests from the Chinese Intelligence Service and prohibits that company from disclosing the fact to a third party, that presents a serious risk. The question is one of the ability of the host government to detect some of these risks in realtime. Not just about a wireless tower that needs to be upgraded. Software that needs millions of lines of code to update it. Any one of those lines could be a vector for malware and viruses. Does any government have the ability to police all of those lines of code . Assume the answer is no. We believe the risk is beyond the scope of most governments ability. That equipment is cheaper. The argument i make on that point, sometimes the only problem with cheap is it cost too much. Not just in terms of our security risk. 50 on its own terms, even cheaper over time when you are in a vendor and that vendor has software that is buggy or there are backdoors, or other kinds of problems, over time you will pay the price for making a decision on the beginning. Country to beany penny wise and pound foolish. I get that. As i understand it, from reading this policy paper, the software is buggy, what a great word. Is that official . Technical term. Buggy. Software bebodys possibly buggy even if it is more expensive . If you look at sources like some of theort, independent researchers who have examined the software, there is a difference. Even if there were parity, what is the risk . Given the National Framework in that the have concerns general willingness of the chinese to exert his leverage that we have seen in this country over things like taiwanese and the flag emojis, we have concerns the Chinese Government would be in this area. What if you succeed. Good luck to you. Then ones adopted and of the Wilson Center genus is forgets to take his burner phone and takes his regular phone. No chinese based technology and it is compromised in china. This is a concern we have. I am given a briefing when i travel by our team about cyber hygiene. We would encourage any citizen traveling to take those precautions and we work with state department and Homeland Security and other agencies to make sure whenever we go abroad we are taking the steps necessary to protect ourselves. Mistakes are made. They always are. The purest of intentions, it could be compromised by the chinese. Or pick another country. We could end up with workarounds, whatever we did not intend. Absolutely. Cyber hygiene are not limited to the fcc. Its important for anybody traveling to be aware of what devices they are using. Surprised, i have seen it all. Just the basic things. As it has evolved, as. Ou know, it evolves we got use to this being an open, positive platform. We need to think about the risk factors. Point, just making the there is no such thing as 100 security. Exactly. This, i cervone the defense policy board. I have been to rethings at the pentagon. Briefings at the pentagon. A chinese have Technology Free situation and everybody observes good cyber hygiene. We are all happy and the rest of the world does not play. They operate on different technology. How does that make us more secure . To the extentblem we are interconnected. Nationaldo not respect boundaries. We need to make sure we protect ourselves. This year we denied the application of china mobile to enter the United States market based on the opinion of the Intelligence Community that the entry would present a risk. We have taken steps to make sure we keep the homeland secure. Talking to our counterparts about the needd to collaborate on these issues. The United States does not exist in a digital vacuum. We need to have trusted vendors and strong allies. As unsophisticated as i am about this, i think about developments in the intel world, such as insisting our analyst look at open Source Intelligence. Stuff that is published and available, not classified. If we are in our little world and homely only have access to some part of this and the rest of the world is out there, how do we maximize the use of open Source Intelligence . I engage in the classified thehings and also information that is out there. Look at the last week about senator schumers letter about ticktock. The other things bubbling up in the news. Many americans are aware of payments in china. We are accustomed to pulling plastic out of our wallets. In china that is the anomaly. We need to know where the chinese are in addition to the spending we have discussed on things like Artificial Intelligence and block chain and quantum computing. Even if it does not impact 5g therity, i dont care where information comes from as long as it is credible. Statet to learn what the of play is. China is a strategic competitor. I agree with that. That does not mean enemy. If we say go away, we dont want your stuff or to deal with you, does that help us . Is that the best approach to achieving our goals . Stay alternative to to say we should understand china better than we do . U. S. , nota and the the other way around. We think understanding china matters. If finding ways to work with china to the extent we can is a good idea, is a policy like the one youre going to vote on in a week in that direction or the other direction . I would defer to the state department on setting the overall policy with respect for china. We think it is a constructive way forward to say we want a. Iskbased framework to engageays looking on issues where we can collaborate and when there is an issue at play. Have a couple more questions. Adopted,our rules are the leverage you have is money. Is it possible for people to say i dont want your money . I will use private sector money to dorow somewhere else what i was intending to do . So your rule wont apply to me and you are using money as a lever. What if people say i dont want to change my equipment . I will find other financing. Concernse not heard along those lines from carriers or groups. To the extent any entity or association has concerns when it comes to financing, we are happy to engage in that conversation. That is part of why we are engaged with congress on finding a Financing Mechanism to see if some of the concerns they have might be addressed. Nuanced knowledge of china could be increased, just a thought. Im glad you are in the position you are because you are smart and have that background. The Wilson Center is also poised to teach the understanding. Instead of demonizing a country , we can urge people to understand better and provide nuanced options. I could not agree more. I have tried to learn as much as i can. Generally speaking its important to learn, not just about china, but generally speaking, the history of the place and what motivates them. I appreciate the diversity of i know there are different shins there. And the last thing was cost. Productsgets huawei are much less offensive. Isnt there something we can do to challenge this for the wto . They do subsidize huawei it seems clear that by doing that they made a determination they should have National Champions to compete on the theynational stage and should be able to block out foreign competition. Whether that is a violation, i would defer to the rules. It is not something we do in the United States. Domestichave a supplier. Its not the kind of thing the United States does. Know, we see it as our role to set the Building Blocks to innovate and we have a handsoff approach. We dont pick particular companies and tell them to go forth and conquer. That is not something we have seen in the marketplace of ideas. I would lament we dont have a domestic supplier. Qualcomm does a little bit of this. Why dont we . A song place strong place in software. For some of the components, the equipment used by huawei, we have an advantage. Its a larger conversation. The number of International Suppliers has dwindled. Boo on us. We should be way ahead on this. It makes me sad. Ok, smart people. Questions. Identify yourself and ask a question. Dont make a speech. Someone in the second row. Right here. No matter what we do, they will be software we cant trust. Using zero trust solutions to protect their data data,ke sure there is wouldnt that be a good solution to make sure we are not using losing our data . That is one thing i am working with our teams on, how to make sure our networks are as secure as possible . Those solutions are some things we have been exploring. There was a question on the left. Who had a question . In the technology, china is high than the United States. China will start development. Do you think you should bill up a similar counterpart . Good question. The u. S. Ect to what strategy is for 5g and how we earlyup with china, the metrics are good in the sense we have freed up a tremendous amount of spectrum. 5g, i do think we are stacking up well if you look at the amount of spectrum we have. The amount of fiber was the largest four homes and businesses. Our eyesward, we have on the future. We are looking at that as well. The primary focus at the moment is on making su