Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Then opinion editor for book on the his new road in trumps america, a journey into the heart of a divided nation. The journey included stops in pennsylvania, ohio, michigan. What did you see and hear . What did you hear . Would i found, you not be surprised, a divided country. Talking to many people, and many people over those three years, very few people have changed their mines about President Trump. Those who supported him for years ago support him today. Those who opposed him in 2016 still oppose him. It is not that peoples views of the president have not changed, but where they have, people have a more extreme and, i say, deeply entrenched view of the president , so if they voted for him, started liking him now, they love him. If they sort of opposed him in 2016, now they hate him. I was say that is a product of our tribal nature of our politics. People use words like we are divided, polarized, but i think is a better word to use, where people are loyal to their own group, their own tribe, above all else. Those outside the tribes are going to be attacked and shunned. Id when it comes to trunk, had a regular set of questions i would run through, and one question, the answers i got was very, very revealing. If i were talking to a trump supporter, i would say ok, you like the president , tell me about something you do not like, one of the policies you oppose. If i was talking to a trump critic, i was aok, fine, you dont like him, is there anything you admire or one of the policies you like coming very often, we would be having a very freeflowing conversation, and it would stop for about 20 seconds as my interview subject would try to think of anything that contradicted their overall impression of the president , and again, that have been reinforced time and time again, how tribal we have become. Host to take that one step further, to complicate all of this, of course, is the vacancy on the Supreme Court, the looming battle in the Supreme Court and senate, and the looming battle of the election. Guest yeah, i think on the vacancy, this is the single most important reason trump was elected. He won 81 of white even delco voters. Hisas not because of character. It was not because he goes to church every week. It was because he made very clear promises about what he wanted to do, and he made a promise about appointing prolife justices to the courts. And he has done that. Those voters that are part of his base, white and growing christians, are behind him, because they feel he has done a good job on dominating these prolife judges. Now,nk if he does so before the election, it would only reaffirm their support and kinda validate and vindicate their support for him. Host in the book on the road in trumps america, you write the following, quote, African Americans might have groveled about some of obamas policies or actions, but generally, there was no chance that they would not show up for him on election day, much less vote for a different candidate. The bond of solidarity was too strong. Similar dynamic is at play with donald trump and when he received from many rural, workingclass voters. Question ofen the whether and under what circumstances these voters would abandon him. Base, yes, and among his white workingclass voters and white churchgoing christians, the way i define it, he has a rocksolid support because of that bond of trust and credibility that he formed with those groups, in 2016, that has only grown stronger. , think there is a feeling that among those voters, trump has our backs. I talked to a lot of farmers in rural wisconsin, iowa, north carolina, and a lot of them said, you know what . Cannlikely as it sounds, i see a lot of myself in trump, because he came from a business background. Farm is like a business, who sets a very clear agenda, goes about getting it done, and people identify a lot with him. The word i heard over and over again from farmers and people in agriculture and rural areas is he listens to us, and he continues to listen to us. He seems to understand our work. He values our work, our values as well, so things like prolife and the gun culture and other issues. So they dont feel like he is talking down to them, whereas with other politicians, they have always felt that way. Rule and with cards to america, you write this host so elaborate on those points, if you would. Guest in talking to people, i would ask how would you describe racism in your area . People would give me, in places that were more white, a quizzical look or a bland assurance that things were fine. One woman put it really well. She said what Race Relations . Iowa, it is rural 99 white. You are surrounded by counties that are the same way, and you dont travel much outside these areas, you may not have a deep understanding of a lot of a lot of the racial issues that we are dealing with. There may not be a very deep understanding of black lives matter, so i think the idea that people who are racially isolated are, as a consequence of their , called racists, is wrong, and people resent that. The idea that they are racist just for living in a countryside or voting for donald trump is incorrect, and people are really sensitive about that. But when they are told they are racist, that actually makes them embrace trump even more. Host our guest is daniel ill let. Allott. El his book is on the road in trumps america a journey into the heart of a divided nation. Lets get to your phone calls. Larry from mississippi. Withr my problem christians supporting trump is you can catch him lying, you can plan for them, and they will still call themselves christian. It reminds me of back in the 1960s when they were hanging black people, they would go to church, hang a black people before they go to church, get out of church, and hang more black people. It is just ridiculous. Have a nice day. Host than larry, thank you for the call. We will get a response. Guest i think, and the issue of lying, a lot of people think he has come through on policy, and truck, the irony of the president is we have a president has lied, by one count, 20,000 times. Seems like every day is something else. But on the issues that matter most, which are the Campaign Promises he has made, his supporters feel like he has kept his promises and follow through on them, and that is not something they are used to getting from a president , from a politician. Most politicians will say one thing to get elected and then do something completely different when in office. With trump, he set a very clear agenda, and he achieved or tried to achieve almost all of it, and people really respect that, and they appreciate that. Host next is peter from new york. Good morning from valley cottage, new york. Good morning, guys, mr. Allott. Regarding the Supreme Court, there is no doubt in my mind that if Chuck Schumer was the majority leader in 2016, mary garland would be on the court right now, so there is no disputing that. Number two, i thought you would find this interesting, you know, the conservatives have been playing a clip of joe biden saying that we believe in truth and not facts, and they are saying it is a gaffe. Gaffe, believe it was a i believe it was a freudian slip. You know, take for instance hands up, dont shoot. We know that was factually incorrect, yet a lot of African Americans believe that it actually happened, so i think it is actually true that people, a lot of people, tribalism is a very accurate description, that people believe what they want to believe on the left. Conservatives seem to associate truth with fact, but there are a lot of people who believe a certain truth, and it does not necessarily have to be factual. Above that would be interesting for you to comment on. Thank you very much. Host thank you, peter. Guest well, i found a very deep distrust of the media in a lot of places i traveled to. One of the advantages of my approach to this book is i was traveling for three years and returning again and again, and i think, over time, i was able to build up quite a bit of credibility and trust in places i visited, places where normally an outoftown reporter coming in, people would be very wary of, but after the cap seeing me showing upow, i kept at events, they would see me in the home of their friend or Something Like that, their guard started coming down, and i think i got to a deeper level of understanding, but i did get a really deep distrust of the media. A lot of people feel like they are misrepresented in the media. And was trump, a lot of his supporters, i feel like there is a sort of boy who cried wolf scenario going on, you know, everything trump does is terrible and potentially impeachable, then perhaps when he does something that is terrible and impeachable, nobody will know, because the media has lost so much credibility to be the neutral arbiters of what is truth and what is newsworthy that nobody will even know. And i think that is the point we are at right now, unfortunately. Host on that point, doesnt the president bear some responsibility, because he has been the first to claim it as fake news, of the media, when it is cripple of him . Guest oh, yeah. I dont think he helped to the matter at all. But you have to understand the context in which trump arose. This resentment and lack of trust in the media existed on the right for decades, and Middle America, Rural America, they felt like the media has talked down to them, not really represented who they are, and for a long time, they felt like republicans, standardbearers, whether it was a president like george w. Bush or mccain or romney just never fought back with the media. Beatingt took whatever was coming at them. George w. Bush was attacked pretty mercilessly, and he never did anything. He wanted to ingratiate himself with the media. In that history, trump comes along, and he is really combative. El that hers do fe goes too far sometimes, but they get a feel that he is willing to fight back, finally. You get the sense that he is taking the blows for the people behind him, for his supporters. He is standing up for their values and for them. Host as you mentioned, you travel to a number of states. In north carolina, macomb county, michigan, in erie county, pennsylvania. When you talked to people there, what struck you the most . What stood out . Guest in erie or generally speaking . Host generally speaking. Guest one thing i was really bowled over by was the immigrant story, and i really sought out people who were different in any community, and i talked to a lot of immigrants and refugees throughout the country, hispanic immigrants in leroux wisconsin, middle eastern immigrants in erie and macomb county, african immigrants in West Virginia and north carolina. Felt veryn, they all welcome in their communities. They felt they had great opportunities. They felt very much sort of embraced by their communities, and that is not often the story you here. I feel a lot of times it is, oh, if you are living in Middle America, if you are living in the countryside, if you are living in a place that voted for President Trump, these places are violently inhospitable to you, and you should be aware you are not going to be welcome. Almost to ason, person, they felt like they were embraced. Ever member in erie, as you know, there are a lot of immigrants and refugees from the middle east in erie comeuppance pensive and it and talking to women there, muslim and the grants from iraq, they were bowled over at how much they were embraced at their jobs and in the broader community, and one of them kidded that she was treated better whenever she wore her hehijab out in public then when she didnt wear it. That shows how welcoming communities are out in america, and that is unfortunately not the story that is often told about Middle America. Host all of this chronicled by the author, daniel allott. The book is called on the road in trumps america a journey into the heart of a divided nation. Back to your phone calls. Palmetto, florida, good morning. Uh, i would like to begin with the evangelicals, to understand that prolife is more than an unborn child. Also all the 200,000 people that have died from the plus the people that died black lives the matter, ok, and i would like to a greeting to virgin, new york. Thank you. Host thank you, mc. Guest i think a lot of prolife people would agree with the caller on that, that all lives matter, and a lot of the issues that we see, those issues are important to them, but when it comes to tens of millions of prolife americans and trump and some of his policies and character issues, i remember meeting with david and maxine. Ivid and maxine or a couple met at the Howard County fair in iowa. Howard county is an interesting place. The only county in america that voted for barack obama by more than 20 points in 2012 and then to trump by more than 20 points, so it flipped. A lot of farming, agriculture, two stop lights a lot of places. And i was there at the howard ai they had a lot of and i went top, the prolife booth, and i talked to david and maxine peered they were Trump Supporters, of course them and i tried to get them acknowledge that trump had some character flaws and not sort of thing. At one point, david stood up and pointed to a model of a late term abortion, and that was his way of saying, look, we are trying to save one million babies a year. We are not concerned about the president s manners. I understand that approach policy matters much more than personality. Host how did they view impeachment . This has been such a year, we forget that it began with the impeachment of President Trump. Guest i was able to predict how anyone would come down on almost any issue, whether it be impeachment, the kavanaugh hearings, the coronavirus, based on their answer to one question. It was the only question i really needed to ask people was where do you stand on trump . And based on that, whether they supported him in 2016 or not, i could predict, ok, so you do not think there is anything to this impeachment stuff. And so it really came down along tribal lines, along party lines. Host lets get back to your phone call. Carrie is joining us, lafayette, indiana. Good morning. Supporter of the president. Caller good morning. Guest good morning. Yes, the economy is so good, i made 4000 interest on the money i had in an annuity, and that makes me very happy. I kind of lean libertarian, but im going to vote for President Trump, and i just really like him. He stands up to china. They were taking, like, half 1 trillion away from us every year, and he stood up to them. That is why they released the us, so the, to hurt economy will get worse, so the democrats would have a better chance of winning, and biden, half the time, he dont even know where hes at. He states the wrong state or the wrong town. I cant believe anybody would vote for biden. Or harris. So many people, and biden, he is the one that made the drug laws tougher, longer sentences and everything, and before they passed the drug laws, there were no drug gangs. Before they passed the alcohol laws, there were no gangs. They repealed the alcohol law, and the murder and the crime rate went up after they repealed the law, the murder and the crime rate went down. Host we will leave it there and get a response. Daniel allott, what are you hearing from this viewer in indiana . Guest well, i think the idea that it is sort of a conspiracy to create the coronavirus and spread it in america to damage the economy into her trumps prospects is very common. A lot of on the right feel like the democrats, the media, the elites, and even china is involved in it, it is sort of a conspiracy to her trump ahead of the election. Reinforces how tribal we have become, that we cannot trust the media, we cannot trust our essential solutions to tell the truth, and we believe these pretty wild conspiracy theories. Host heres what i viewer says, the president s treatment by the media is trumps doing, the lies, the corruption, the divisiveness, they take a toll on everybodys patients, except votingporters, who are for something other than governance. Guest that is a sentiment i have heard quite a bit. If people are thinking about trump closing personality, character when they vote, i think he will end up losing. I talked to a few voters who voted for trump who planned to vote for biden or not goat it all, and that is the thing that came up again and again, the andnt of trump fatigue exhaustion with the chaos surrounding trump. I remember talking to a woman in orange county, california named lacey who, she is mid 30s, half white, half hispanic, and she voted for trump mainly out of an aversion for hillary. She liked a lot of his policies, but she knew she only wanted trump for one term, because she knew that things would get chaotic, and the metaphor she used for trump was ok, you have had four years of a hurricane. Now perhaps it is time for a light drizzle. And that is what she sees in joe biden. Maybe we need a return to normalcy and all of the drama that surrounds the president. Host in a de facto america, there is no united we stand. The notion of citizenship rather than an ethnic nationalism. He is doomed. Youre go back to thi book and this point regarding geography peered you said geography, more than race or class, has become the dividing line more so today, living lives that are wholly removed from one another. I think i found a lot of resentment for cities, you know, i would ask people, and the countryside, do you resent cities, and they would do, becauses i they feel like they are paying taxes, living under regulations and edex coming from the power and they are paying their taxes and everything, but they do not see the resources getting to them. Are in terrible condition, the roads are under funded, they ar their kids are going to state college, and they are being inculcated with values, and they are not coming back, so there countryside is dying, and they are resentful about it. Host lets go to peggy. Good morning. Caller good morning. I think my big concern is if trump gets reelected in an another conservative Supreme Court judge, trouble try to get rid of the 22nd amendment to run for more than two terms or make himself president for life. Thank you. Host thank you, peggy. We will get a response. Guest i have not heard a lot about. Things are pretty tribal right now, but i do not think there will be much support among his voters, supporters, supporting him, you know, going for a third term. That is a bit out there. I guess anything is possible in