Say again welcome and thank you to our panel and amanda barrett, fda managing editor of theassociated press. Sanchez, editor and Senior Vice President at the Minneapolis Church news and dorothy packer, Investigative Reporter for wbbm. In my hometown of chicago and president of the National Association of black journalists. Thank you allfor being here. And over to you. For having me and thank youagain to our panelists, thank you to everybody whos joinedus today. I hope you get a lot out of this conversation. This is important and we have a great group of panelists that will dig right in. So i want to take with kind of an overarchingquestion. Newsrooms have been announcing a lot of great changes over the last few months. New diversity leadership positions, taskforces, theyre creating new projects after years of inequities in our american newsrooms, some of have even characterize it as systemicracism in american newsrooms, has anything really changed . Amanda, id like to startwith you. Thank you to everyone for having us here today for this very important conversation area i would say that things are starting to change. Because there is so much conversation and so much inside our newsrooms, particularly as we were all covering the summer of protests and it started us off on the path of soulsearching. But were nowhere near done. I think we have started and were thinking and were starting to make change, but my concern is how do we make the change permanent. How do we really try to not only reach different communities also give more people power in newsrooms to hear their voices andbring them into decisionmaking about what we do. So thats where my mind is. Okay. Renc. Do you have any problem with that . I agree with amanda and the only thing i would add is that were taking a first set of steps that we think can be meaningful but theres a huge, enormous, that a real burden of proof to the point of how do we sustain it well and how a year from now can we credibly say there has beenchange . I guess i would say michael, the only really evident change so far is i think in our newsroom given the magnitude of what happened here in minneapolis is that we are darren to listen much harder and even though we think were listening, to listen harder, to some of the nuances of the issues the on kind of the obvious shortcomings. So that has been i think an important part of the process so far and i hope it may push us into a significant change. Dorothy, do you have thoughts on this one . I think the protests fueled a racial reckoning in newsrooms across the country, just like we saw in other industries. I think that we definitelysee it in the newsroom. What i see is black journalists who are coming together, joining together in demanding change with the new newsrooms. Their demanding equality. Their demanding that managers listen to them and because of that, i see that there are more hires so we were talking about this the other day. We put out a lot of congratulations to this person and this person. We are seeing some movement. I think managers, to this point they are hearing the voices of black journalists and other people of color in particular in responding and if they arehearing it , they are seeing things around the country and they are being proactive. I think there is some movement. The question to us like amanda said is how do you sustain it . One of the ways we sustain it is to say to our black journalists in particular and others as well dont stop. Just keep pushing. Dont sit back and say okay, we have one new manager in, were good. Number we haveto keep up the fight. We have to keep the heat up. There are other things i think we should address systemic racism but ill stop there now. I appreciate that. Whenyou talk about sustainability and keeping it going , why should journalists of color in the industry now believe that anything will change going forward, especially if you you give our history and go back to Historical Data and ill just use all of our organizations have challenges here but ill just use the nas and e as an exampleright now. Back in 1978 , they vowed to achieve parity in newsrooms with demographics of the United States by the year 2000. It is 2020. And in 2020, were saying, the organization is saying they will reach parity by 2025. We seem to be kicking the can down the road. What will make this stick . What will make this sustainable . What will make the change be permanent. Ill start with you again, dorothy. One of the things that will make the change and i dont know that i can say permanent i think one of the things that will make this fight more constant is that were frustrated now. I think because of the protests, because of what is happening , because of the unrest in this country, because of the racism, we are frustrated and we are perhaps more determined in that there are more of us who are in the newsroom and who are more aware. If you look at in 1978 and that was just about thetime that i came in , i was the only woman in the newsroom. There were no others. Fast forward to today and were definitely not the only one in the newsroom but there are more of us and what im seeing is that literally, i have chapters reaching out to me every day saying that we are getting together and we are going and demanding to see more people of color in management positions. Were demanding to see more people of color in decisionmaking positions and i think thats why youre going to see a change and its because of thenumbers, its because of the time and its because of the frustration. And young people in particular , they are not as educated as we were. Theyre not willing to sit back and say if i do the right things long enough, my time willcome. Theyre speaking up and i like that. I like that theyre saying wait a minute, ive done all these things. I want my turn now. Iwant my opportunity now. So its a different time and i am prayerful that it will make a difference, that it will sustain. Renc, whats it look like for you . Lets be honest, i think there should be skepticism. If you look over recent years or even the decades, gains are very incomplete, its gradual. I dont think theres a magic bullet and were not approaching it that way as we renew this work with i would say greater urgency than ever. The way where thinking about it is that you know, they have to rethink and have a lot more intention around everything from the pipeline of young journalists to developing midcareer journalistic positions of leadership. And it just the full spectrum list you might say in the hope that in all those ways, there will be gains. You know, the one other thing i would say that is different compared to any point that ive seen so far is that here in our newsroom, we are working directly in and constantly with several leaders of journalists of color in our newsroom and whats been great about it is that it started very much as a shared partnership. For example after two months of listening and really trying to get more deeply at the issues before we put out an action plan, i let the leaders of that group line by line and call out what was maybe tone deaf to put forth emphasis on other things we really trying to do this together, not just as a Leadership Group responding to particular new questions ordemands. Theres a couple of things at play here. First i think for a key, this went from being a newsroom conversation to a company conversation. A lot more people started talking about their experiences and feeling like a half a lot of opportunities for they werent heard and so i think there was a groundswell of sharing that really helped us when we started thinking about how can we change the way we operate and how can we think about the audience that we want to reach, bringing different perspectives and voices to the and actually telling some unusual stories. And we heard back from customers thatthats what they want. Theres a business imperative here we should not ignore. For us, our customers tell us that we need to be given a total picture of the communities that we can. Give a diversity of voices and opinions and different people are coverage. So having that kind of response helped us think about holistically how we can change our operation to do better. But there is still skepticism. Theres definitely skepticism and i thinktheres going to be. We have to show our work and we have to be really serious about making change and show commitment as leaders of our news organizations in order for people to see that change is happening. I think if we dont dothat , youre not going to see the support of the community and edelman did a survey and found that people want to know that the brand they support is conscious, is socially conscious. They want to know that the manufacturers who makethem have a diverse company. So the Community Looks at the news industry the same way. And its important. So to amanda it is about the body and mind and i know that we may not be able to see these changes happen today or tomorrow, but i think its different this time. You have Companies Like the star tribune and the ap putting together an action plan. Where 50 years ago individual companies are not putting together an action plan area there was a mandate from the Turner Commission and a mandate from the asa need to do the right thing and make some changes but now individually these companies are putting together a plan to make a difference what we have to do is make sure that they carry out those. Dorothy, i want to stick with this topic for a few more minutes because you mention something that ive heard numerous times. You said when you first came in you were the one. I believe that there are still numerous newsrooms out there where there are still a one and ifyou are the one , you dont have a collective to go to management and say i want this change or we need this change. We have journalists of color leavingthe business. How do we model newsrooms of all sizes to keep journalists of color in the business, to train them to provide them mentorship and to help promote them or give them career plans that will help them achievetheir goals. And i dont mean just from, reporter to seasoned reporter, but to editor, to executive editor, to general manager and dare i say into the boardroom . What do we need to do toget to that . Two things. First i think its kind of different questions here. There are many newsrooms that there is still only one. You remember the case in kenosha wisconsin where the editor quit because of an inflammatoryheadline he did not want. He was the only black editor, the only black person in the newsroom and now equipped over that. And there are many cases where there are one but the difference today is when i started there is one in the newsroom but we are much more connected because of a ja and all the other organizations. There is an opportunity for even if you are the only one to network with others and others will support you. My job as president is to be the backdrop, is to be the support, is to be the voice when you need it. To your other question about what do we do , i can tell you that there are a number of programs that Companies Already run and im sure that our mentorship programs, that our fellowship programs. Help people get in business. They give them an opportunity to get an internship and an apprenticeship and to get that first job and then to move up. The problem is that theres a gap. They get in and then there is , many times there is nothing to do can to continue that mentorship. To continue that relationship, to continue to give them opportunity so after four or five years, six years, they leave. Because they dont have a role model because nobodys given them the opportunity. There is more hiring at the top because the road up is too long that is going to be 10, 12,15 years before you get there. [inaudible] bring them in. You know, dare say they get to theboardroom , higher than right at theboardroom. People of color have thatkind of experience. Theyve been in the industry long enough. They can come in and as an executive editor, they can come in as general editor so just start there. We shouldnt always have to start up, we should be able tostart at the top as well. Renc, looks like you had something to say. I think thats a great point of emphasis. What were thinking about, what were striving to do with more intensity, to do it better is frankly to increase the accountability and to increase accountability on this issue in every Single Department of the newsroom. Not to simply say this is a newsroom thing, its a features thing. Its a photo thing area its a metro news thing. A copy desk thing so what were trying to do is get a plan going and it is in motion now in which the new leadership position we have on these issues is to kind of lockin a quarterly meeting with the leaders of each department and be able to ask questions like where are you now as compared to where you werelast quarter with the Development Plan of journalist x. Where are you now with recruiting on the job you know that is coming up this summer. Things like that and what were hoping is that if we can increase accountability in each department, in a structural way that over the next year a lot more will bloom and then that Critical Mass will i think my hope anyway when presented journalists of color coming in at all different stages of their career. They see the commitments, they see themselves, they see peers like them and thats the challenge before us and its pretty stark. Amanda, did you have any thoughts on this particular question . It evidence we all struggle with is lets face it, journalism was not always great athelping people create career paths from the getgo. Thats just a basic issue that we have. But we really have to focus in and think about how we can create assignments for people. Give them opportunities, create new leadership opportunities. Ross, i know we can be very hierarchical and we have committees, but theres always peopleon the committees. Can we pull some other people in . Can we give them a chance to leave, give them a chance to try something new because we know that we need them to build those skills, we need them to be leaders in the newsroom and the not so distant future. So i think all of us, its incumbent upon us as news organizations to really help someone, help our black staffers, all of our staffers but particularly our minority staffers find a way forward, develop the skills they need and dorothy is so key about recruiting at all levels. Ims with the idea that the only way we can bring in minority journalists is to bring them in on entrylevel reedit there are plenty of people like me who been in business 30 years. In doing work for a longtime. Why are they not getting the cost . Why are not they not being considered . Thats something we have to focus in on because typically, what happens is no higher there friend. We have to break through that and as renc said, you have to hold them accountable. We have to say no, youre not going to gohigher your friend. We need to look at the panel of people that are being interviewed for jobs and be more demanding that people are out there recruiting all different kinds of people so that we can bring those voices into our company. Recruiting efforts and i just want to say this amanda, its exactly what i wanted to say. Recruiting efforts is key. Or one of the keys for sure. We have to make sure that you are searching beyond your small circle and that means you out to organizations like the aw j. We have 1400 members, we have databases of producers, databases that were developed now as freelancers. We have to tell their butt we are beginning to get calls. Now more than ever because i have pretty much been jumping on, take me, take me. Ive been saying come to us, come to us, we have the talent but i want the industry to know that we are a resource and its the same thing for any agency, so i think these companies have to be very mindful and very, when they go to say were going to fill this position, dont just make a phone call. Go to the universities as well. Dont just call your friends because sometimes its a question and the Companies Say why is it that we keep hiring people who look like the managers wealready have . Why do we keep hiring white people who look like white people . Thats the question i didnt mean to interrupt you there but thats the question i was about to ask. I have been asked in other newsrooms how do we trust the process if the same leadership is in place that peter got us to this position or has maintained this position and amanda, to your point there hiring their friend. I also want to make sure there are systems in place and i want to know what you all have in place your shots, i like to know the systems in place so its more than a really room, anyone whos not familiar with the rooney rule , it requires you bring in a candidate of color, a minority person to interview for any headcoaching job but as ive seen it and ive seen this happen innewsrooms , the candidates are brought in to check off a box and the conversation is had, they walk in the front door, the conversation is had had their walking and the next thing you knowtheres the back door and there out and we did our job. What are your shots doing to ensure that the managers have the right training. They have the right understanding. They have the right decision to understand the needs to diversify newsrooms and it look like you are ready to speak. I think thats a great reference. I have literally invoked the rooney rule here to our leaders because on the one hand it sounds great but where are we ask years later when you look at the landscape of professional football and headcoaching and it could easily be argued that hasnt been that effective because to your point, its kind of a box checking exercise so we have invoked that directly as a clear sign of how this can go way off track or start as strong rhetoric and have no consequence sowhat were trying to do , to be honest obviously where just kind of renewing our intensity around getting much better but were already discovering challenges within challenges and some of them have the sort of relate to that as we talk to broad effective leaders we realize wait a second, if required, the same people are asking questions so we subsequently tried to break that down in small meetings of four, three or four people with leaders in the room of color so that there can be a direct reckoning about what is not right. And secondly, we appointed a new Senior Leader to help lead the way on these issues but weve already had to cant kind of ring a bell and say wait, the person in this job cannot suddenly have 510 tasks that everyone else gives them and they say weve got this person, theyre going to help me so were trying to create a culture of ownership, not box checking because i think that is the key rift and we will lock up in a year and have these feelgood box checks but