Transcripts For CSPAN Conversation With Retired Special Ops

This is about an hour. Admiral, great to see you again. We are two days after veterans day and that was the occasion for this event. Publicre plenty of issues right now that i want to ask you about, but i want to defer that for a moment and talk about service itself. With how yourt came by service. You came by it naturally, you grew up in a family of service. Tell me about your dad, who was an interesting person. Thank you forn the invitation to join you today, this is terrific. I enjoy spending time with you and your students. I came by it naturally, my ii fireas a world war pilot and fighter flew spitfires, a british plane. We entered the war, we did not have planes so the british loaned us spitfires. My grandfather also served in world war i and in world war ii, he was an army surgeon. My dad, later in life as i was getting ready to join the service, he said i remember what got me in the service. When i was a young boy, i saw the soldiers heading off to france in world war i, board the trains in his small town. He said there was such a sense of pride and duty and patriotism that it was infectious. In addition to obviously watching his father, that really spurred him to join the military and i grew up as an air force brat and loved my time in the military families, and just seeing the remarkable dedication of not only military members but their families. Bratw does an air force end up in the navy seals . Adm. Mcraven good question. I have thought about filing flying and my dad was a Fighter Pilot and was nudging me in that direction. I think itly enough, was close to my senior year in high school, my sister was Army Green Beret and this was after the army with john wayne had come out. I had a fascination with green berets. This young army captain came to pick her up for a date and she was, as usual, kind of late, so i was entertaining the young captain and he said what are you getting ready to do . I said i think of going to join the navy, i have a scholarship. He said, you better become a navy seal. In 1973, ive never heard of the navy seals, nobody had heard of the navy seals at that time. Blueyou have an army green green beret telling me to be a navy seal. 37 years in the seals. You can explain the bullfrog title. Became moreations and more significant. Literally wrote the book on that. Why has special operations become such an important part of defense . Look overen when you the history, the modernday history of special operations, we had a heyday in world war ii, you saw these remarkable operations by all of the services, including u. S. Forces, the oss, predecessor to the cia, and we had navy frogman in world war ii and special operations. Ater world war ii, it waned little bit, picked up a little bit in korea, but the vietnam and the navy seals came about and they were born from the underwater demolition teams and they earned a reputation fighting the insurgency in vietnam. Toer vietnam, and this tends happen after wars, the reliance or expectations we will need special operations declines, which it did. Atn we had the disaster desert one, the company did an assessment, do we need special operations . Of course we did, we need to professionalize them. Congress put in place the professional Operations Command and we began to institutionalize or professionalize special operations. Came along, we1 were a barn on the finest special Operations Force in the world. The question becomes, why do you need them . Im always quick to point out, special operations have unique niche. They are not going to be able to keep the strait of hormuz open, theyre not going to be able to stop the chinese from invading we have to continue to make sure we are promoting the right people. You see the air force now. Question asked this about the first africanamerican chief of staff of the air force, i tell people very quickly, if you think he was chosen because he was africanamerican, you dont know him. He was chosen because he was the best person for the job. He happens to be africanamerican and he will be a great role model for the kids in the air force, army, navy and marine corps. But he was chosen because he is the best person for the job and we need to continue that march forward. Mr. Axelrod you do have this disparate, at the rankandfile level, large minority representation. Relates to a it i alwaysint, which is felt like service during world war ii created a kind of commonality among americans of different backgrounds. I am sure you found that you served with people of different backgrounds and it broadened you. This aspect of service and the value of service, how do we recapture that . Because we live in such a polarized time between rural and urban in different communities in our country. How do we through Service Attack that . Point, youn to your see the young men and women coming into the service and you make it a white kid from the south and a black kid from chicago, and once they find themselves in the same squad, in the same company, the same platoon, all of a sudden those differences begin to fall away and they realize they have a lot more in common than they do apart, and the differences dont matter when they are focused on a or objective. Thats the great thing about the service, that has always been a great thing about the service. You are right, what we tend to find it today is the demographics of the Service Continue to be more in the south than the north. They seem to be more middleclass than upperclass. But i think this serves us well when you find these young kids that come in. They serve their time of the military and a lot of them get out and become great citizens of the United States. You see many of them today serving in congress. Weve got to continue to encourage men and women to join the service. I would like to see a National Service program whereby it is not just about the service in the military, but how do we create Something Like a National Service academy where men and women must like much like the naval economy and west point, they are selected by congressmen, they come to a Service Academy for four years and they join a Service Corps and have a career in this. The difference is the focus is domestically. Were going to teach people to be civil engineers, to be teachers, we are going to teach them skills that help the country and we assign them places like in flint, michigan, can they improve the Water Quality . I think National Service is important but until that happens, we need to encourage young men and women to join. I think that will absolutely help the polarization you see today. At least that is my hope. Mr. Axelrod another question that came my way that i felt was really good, what is the one thing that admiral mcraven wishes his younger self would have known before going into this field . Adm. Mcraven yeah, i think the answer is, everything is going to be ok. I know that sounds simple, but when you are a young incident ensign and trying to do the best job you can and challenges get in your way, all of a sudden they become the most important thing in your life and you are worried about them constantly, when in fact they may not be that critical. You just do the best job you can. When i look back on 37 years and i think about the times i sweated things, i think that is , you have to take your obligation seriously, but i wish i would have been a little more relaxed and realized you work hard, you work through things, your friends and colleagues will help you through tough times, and you will be all right. Mr. Axelrod when you think back on those 37 years, i am sure you were inspired by people who served under you, people who lead you. Is there one person you think back on and say this person embodied what i think is best about service . Adm. Mcraven i had an awful lot of them, as you said. The one thing that people in leadership positions, at least and i know ryan would say the same thing what inspires you every day are the men and women who work for you. The fact of the matter is, and particularly after 9 11, the young men and women i saw who raised their hand after 9 11 and said im going to volunteer to go to war. They all knew what they were signing up for. Those of us who came in before 9 11, it was a continuation. But that generation who raised their hand and the thing i enjoyed the most was spending time with these young men and women, you hear their story. Some of them are married with a couple of kids at home, they are small salary and you see their sacrifice and sense of commitment, and im telling you, that inspires the leaders to do the right thing. I have been fortunate in my career, i have worked for remarkable men and women. We talked about colin powell, condoleezza rice, i have worked for both president s, george w. Bush and barack obama. But i think back on the senior enlisted i had a chance to spend time with. Major, ad sergeant great Army Green Beret and special operations noncommissioned officer, one of the smartest guys i ever spent time with. He was my righthand man. I did not make any difficult decisions without conferring with my sergeant major. When i was in the navy, i had a great master chief named Steve Chamberlain in the same old, disciplinedibly enlisted men. Mr. Axelrod what was the hardest day you ever had in your 37 years . Adm. Mcraven i dont know if i could single out a day because you have a lot of tough days. Particularly in combat. Unfortunate, after 9 11, in the course of my six years in and out of iraq and afghanistan, i lost a lot of great men and women. That is always hard. It is hard because you know they were very young, they were very committed to what they were doing. You grieve for their families and frankly, it is a burden that i am not sure you ever completely get over, nor should you get over it. Those were a lot of hard days. I dont know that they ever get easier. As i said, they probably shouldnt. Mr. Axelrod what about the proudest day . The day you look back at and say wow, that was it . That was really extorted to be really extraordinary to be part of . Adm. Mcraven a lot of people would probably say i would jump , bute bin laden raid thats not my first thought. I was incredibly proud of the men who went on that mission to get bin laden, they were risking their lives and it was a remarkable mission and it brought justice to bin laden. But when i think back on the number of missions, and we did thousands of missions from the time it was the Deputy Commander soc and commander, we did thousands. The ones i was most proud of was when we could rescue an american, we did a lot of hostage rescues. We were not rescuing prominent people, we were rescuing contractors, we were rescuing journalists, we were rescuing, you know, people we knew we had an obligation as american soldiers to rescue americans. And when you save someones life and you realize you have children,hem, their their childrens children, because they are alive today because of what you in your amended, that is pretty your men dead, that is pretty rewarding. Mr. Axelrod you call on others to you have called on others to take life. There has to be some psychic cost of that, there has to be some impact of that. You have been close on a lot of action in the course of those 37 years. How do you process that . Adm. Mcraven yeah, first you have to recognize your obligation as a commander. ,our obligation as a commander first and foremost, is the protection of the men and women under your command. That from atand rules of engagement standpoint, the law of armed conflict, you have the authority to protect yourself and you have the obligation to protect others. Whenever we were doing a mission that required striking a target, killing the enemy, you really do have to go through your mind and you have to say because you have to live with it, and if you make the mistake, you will live with the civilians you inadvertently killed you say, am i doing this to protect american soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, civilians . If you can in your own mind make that argument and you know your decision is moral, legal and ethical, you can do that. Now, i was not always right. We made mistakes. Innocent men and women died. It is the horror of war. And once again, you have to live with that burden. Let me tell you, there are times at night when those dark memories come up and you say what could i have done better . What mistakes did i make and how could i have corrected them . And then you have to press on. One thing i used to tell young officers is you are going to make bad decisions periodically, but you cant be afraid to make the next tough decision. Because if you are afraid to make the next tough decision, you are not the leader the men and women need you to be. Every leader is going to make mistakes. Learn from your mistakes, be prepared to make the next tough decision because it could save more men and women. Mr. Axelrod you are in the nsa during that critical period in washington, at the beginning of the war in iraq and after 9 11. A lot has been written and a lot has been discussed about the impact of that decision, to go to iraq. We still have troops there, we have troops in afghanistan. What has the impact been on the prolonged the struggle, for which there really isnt a parallel . Vietnam went on for quite a almost twoe are decades in now. Adm. Mcraven great question. In 2010, maybe september of 2010, i was in baghdad and a decision had been made to pull u. S. Forces out of iraq i think at the beginning of 2011. I was down talking to a squadron of seals, and the chief petty officer was a little upset. At one point he said, hey , we are going out on missions every night risking our lives and we are pulling out in four months, why are we continuing to go on these missions . At the time they were to stop a network of suicide bombers baghdad, hit the markets and those sort of things. It was a great question. Theonly answer i could give senior chief was we came here, we have a responsibility. And let me tell you something, you have no idea about how your missions can change the outcome of war history. If you stop a suicide bomber from blowing up a market in baghdad today, will there have been a young man or woman in the market who was going to find a cure for cancer, who was going to be the Prime Minister of iraq in 20 years and do some thing great . You just dont know, so you have to do your job. From the military standpoint, we have to do our job. That is not to say you dont sit around saying what if, why are we doing this . Thats not to say you cant in your own mind question the policy, and you should, and the senior officer had an obligation to raise issues with the secretary of defense, but more often than not, you have to be satisfied with doing your job. Let me make it a little broader. I was with president bush last year or so, year and a half ago, and some of the asked him a question about his legacy and in particular, iraq. He said something i thought was very thoughtful. He said they are still writing books about george washington, not making the implication he was george washington, but he said people will assess my legacy for millennia to come. He said it is a little hard at this point in time, not very far removed from iraq to say it was the right or wrong decision. And i had to think about that. Questioned my mind whether it was the right decision, but i realized as a leader i had to get out and leap my troops to do americas business. But i realized history will tell whether or not taking down saddam hussein, trying to institute some form of democracy blood andas worth the treasure that we and the iraqis gave. I think the jury may still be out on that. Mr. Axelrod you mentioned him and the other president s you worked for. Talk to me about the leadership lessons you learned from each of them. Adm. Mcraven it is interesting, and you will know, having been in there many times, but when you sit in the situation room and you have an opportunity to observe up close how the president of the United States deals with his senior staff, what i was surprised by were the similarities between george w. Bush and barack obama in terms of how they dealt with their staff. What i found with both bush and obama was they listened. They would listen to their staff, they were happy to have members of their staff disagree. And then they would take that input, though often make a decision. And make aff decision. I thought that was important. Even though their personalities are different, president obama much more subdued, although you know better than most, he has a great sense of humor and a great personality. Sometimes it did not come forward publicly, and of course president bush, much more outgoing from a public standpoint. But also very thoughtful behind the scenes. What both of these leaders understood was listen. Listen to the subject matter experts, taken the information and then make the best decision, the best judgment you can. That is the fundamentals of leadership i think in any role that any leader would have. Mr. Axelrod i was going to ask you about some of the current events. Approached you about coming and speaking, you were reluctant because you did not want to get drawn you have criticized President Trump and you didnt want to get drawn into that. It is unusual for military and retired military to be as outspoken as you have been. Was that a hard decision for you and what kind of feedback did you get from peers . Adm. Mcraven [laughs] it was actually not a hard decision. I thought about it but it was not hard decision and i will walk you through the timeline. One of the things ive told ,olks is when i am criticized as a Senior Leader having spoken out against the president , i always tell people, that is fair criticism. We have this unwritten rule that as a retired senior officer you are not supposed to speak badly about the president , and in general i think that is a good rule. But i also realized that for myself, i needed to look myself in the mirror and say am i doing what i think is right . Wasof this started when i at the university of texas and the president came out and said the press was the enemy of the American People. I said i have fought the enemy of the American People and it is not the press. I have been raked over the coals by the press and i understand how challenging it can be, but at the end of the day, to me, the press, the first amendment, is maybe the single most important thing we have as part of our constitution. And for the president of the Fighter Pilot<\/a> and was nudging me in that direction. I think itly enough, was close to my senior year in high school, my sister was Army Green Beret<\/a> and this was after the army with john wayne had come out. I had a fascination with green berets. This young army captain came to pick her up for a date and she was, as usual, kind of late, so i was entertaining the young captain and he said what are you getting ready to do . I said i think of going to join the navy, i have a scholarship. He said, you better become a navy seal. In 1973, ive never heard of the navy seals, nobody had heard of the navy seals at that time. Blueyou have an army green green beret telling me to be a navy seal. 37 years in the seals. You can explain the bullfrog title. Became moreations and more significant. Literally wrote the book on that. Why has special operations become such an important part of defense . Look overen when you the history, the modernday history of special operations, we had a heyday in world war ii, you saw these remarkable operations by all of the services, including u. S. Forces, the oss, predecessor to the cia, and we had navy frogman in world war ii and special operations. Ater world war ii, it waned little bit, picked up a little bit in korea, but the vietnam and the navy seals came about and they were born from the underwater demolition teams and they earned a reputation fighting the insurgency in vietnam. Toer vietnam, and this tends happen after wars, the reliance or expectations we will need special operations declines, which it did. Atn we had the disaster desert one, the company did an assessment, do we need special operations . Of course we did, we need to professionalize them. Congress put in place the professional Operations Command<\/a> and we began to institutionalize or professionalize special operations. Came along, we1 were a barn on the finest special Operations Force<\/a> in the world. The question becomes, why do you need them . Im always quick to point out, special operations have unique niche. They are not going to be able to keep the strait of hormuz open, theyre not going to be able to stop the chinese from invading we have to continue to make sure we are promoting the right people. You see the air force now. Question asked this about the first africanamerican chief of staff of the air force, i tell people very quickly, if you think he was chosen because he was africanamerican, you dont know him. He was chosen because he was the best person for the job. He happens to be africanamerican and he will be a great role model for the kids in the air force, army, navy and marine corps. But he was chosen because he is the best person for the job and we need to continue that march forward. Mr. Axelrod you do have this disparate, at the rankandfile level, large minority representation. Relates to a it i alwaysint, which is felt like service during world war ii created a kind of commonality among americans of different backgrounds. I am sure you found that you served with people of different backgrounds and it broadened you. This aspect of service and the value of service, how do we recapture that . Because we live in such a polarized time between rural and urban in different communities in our country. How do we through Service Attack<\/a> that . Point, youn to your see the young men and women coming into the service and you make it a white kid from the south and a black kid from chicago, and once they find themselves in the same squad, in the same company, the same platoon, all of a sudden those differences begin to fall away and they realize they have a lot more in common than they do apart, and the differences dont matter when they are focused on a or objective. Thats the great thing about the service, that has always been a great thing about the service. You are right, what we tend to find it today is the demographics of the Service Continue<\/a> to be more in the south than the north. They seem to be more middleclass than upperclass. But i think this serves us well when you find these young kids that come in. They serve their time of the military and a lot of them get out and become great citizens of the United States<\/a>. You see many of them today serving in congress. Weve got to continue to encourage men and women to join the service. I would like to see a National Service<\/a> program whereby it is not just about the service in the military, but how do we create Something Like<\/a> a National Service<\/a> academy where men and women must like much like the naval economy and west point, they are selected by congressmen, they come to a Service Academy<\/a> for four years and they join a Service Corps<\/a> and have a career in this. The difference is the focus is domestically. Were going to teach people to be civil engineers, to be teachers, we are going to teach them skills that help the country and we assign them places like in flint, michigan, can they improve the Water Quality<\/a> . I think National Service<\/a> is important but until that happens, we need to encourage young men and women to join. I think that will absolutely help the polarization you see today. At least that is my hope. Mr. Axelrod another question that came my way that i felt was really good, what is the one thing that admiral mcraven wishes his younger self would have known before going into this field . Adm. Mcraven yeah, i think the answer is, everything is going to be ok. I know that sounds simple, but when you are a young incident ensign and trying to do the best job you can and challenges get in your way, all of a sudden they become the most important thing in your life and you are worried about them constantly, when in fact they may not be that critical. You just do the best job you can. When i look back on 37 years and i think about the times i sweated things, i think that is , you have to take your obligation seriously, but i wish i would have been a little more relaxed and realized you work hard, you work through things, your friends and colleagues will help you through tough times, and you will be all right. Mr. Axelrod when you think back on those 37 years, i am sure you were inspired by people who served under you, people who lead you. Is there one person you think back on and say this person embodied what i think is best about service . Adm. Mcraven i had an awful lot of them, as you said. The one thing that people in leadership positions, at least and i know ryan would say the same thing what inspires you every day are the men and women who work for you. The fact of the matter is, and particularly after 9 11, the young men and women i saw who raised their hand after 9 11 and said im going to volunteer to go to war. They all knew what they were signing up for. Those of us who came in before 9 11, it was a continuation. But that generation who raised their hand and the thing i enjoyed the most was spending time with these young men and women, you hear their story. Some of them are married with a couple of kids at home, they are small salary and you see their sacrifice and sense of commitment, and im telling you, that inspires the leaders to do the right thing. I have been fortunate in my career, i have worked for remarkable men and women. We talked about colin powell, condoleezza rice, i have worked for both president s, george w. Bush and barack obama. But i think back on the senior enlisted i had a chance to spend time with. Major, ad sergeant great Army Green Beret<\/a> and special operations noncommissioned officer, one of the smartest guys i ever spent time with. He was my righthand man. I did not make any difficult decisions without conferring with my sergeant major. When i was in the navy, i had a great master chief named Steve Chamberlain<\/a> in the same old, disciplinedibly enlisted men. Mr. Axelrod what was the hardest day you ever had in your 37 years . Adm. Mcraven i dont know if i could single out a day because you have a lot of tough days. Particularly in combat. Unfortunate, after 9 11, in the course of my six years in and out of iraq and afghanistan, i lost a lot of great men and women. That is always hard. It is hard because you know they were very young, they were very committed to what they were doing. You grieve for their families and frankly, it is a burden that i am not sure you ever completely get over, nor should you get over it. Those were a lot of hard days. I dont know that they ever get easier. As i said, they probably shouldnt. Mr. Axelrod what about the proudest day . The day you look back at and say wow, that was it . That was really extorted to be really extraordinary to be part of . Adm. Mcraven a lot of people would probably say i would jump , bute bin laden raid thats not my first thought. I was incredibly proud of the men who went on that mission to get bin laden, they were risking their lives and it was a remarkable mission and it brought justice to bin laden. But when i think back on the number of missions, and we did thousands of missions from the time it was the Deputy Commander<\/a> soc and commander, we did thousands. The ones i was most proud of was when we could rescue an american, we did a lot of hostage rescues. We were not rescuing prominent people, we were rescuing contractors, we were rescuing journalists, we were rescuing, you know, people we knew we had an obligation as american soldiers to rescue americans. And when you save someones life and you realize you have children,hem, their their childrens children, because they are alive today because of what you in your amended, that is pretty your men dead, that is pretty rewarding. Mr. Axelrod you call on others to you have called on others to take life. There has to be some psychic cost of that, there has to be some impact of that. You have been close on a lot of action in the course of those 37 years. How do you process that . Adm. Mcraven yeah, first you have to recognize your obligation as a commander. ,our obligation as a commander first and foremost, is the protection of the men and women under your command. That from atand rules of engagement standpoint, the law of armed conflict, you have the authority to protect yourself and you have the obligation to protect others. Whenever we were doing a mission that required striking a target, killing the enemy, you really do have to go through your mind and you have to say because you have to live with it, and if you make the mistake, you will live with the civilians you inadvertently killed you say, am i doing this to protect american soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, civilians . If you can in your own mind make that argument and you know your decision is moral, legal and ethical, you can do that. Now, i was not always right. We made mistakes. Innocent men and women died. It is the horror of war. And once again, you have to live with that burden. Let me tell you, there are times at night when those dark memories come up and you say what could i have done better . What mistakes did i make and how could i have corrected them . And then you have to press on. One thing i used to tell young officers is you are going to make bad decisions periodically, but you cant be afraid to make the next tough decision. Because if you are afraid to make the next tough decision, you are not the leader the men and women need you to be. Every leader is going to make mistakes. Learn from your mistakes, be prepared to make the next tough decision because it could save more men and women. Mr. Axelrod you are in the nsa during that critical period in washington, at the beginning of the war in iraq and after 9 11. A lot has been written and a lot has been discussed about the impact of that decision, to go to iraq. We still have troops there, we have troops in afghanistan. What has the impact been on the prolonged the struggle, for which there really isnt a parallel . Vietnam went on for quite a almost twoe are decades in now. Adm. Mcraven great question. In 2010, maybe september of 2010, i was in baghdad and a decision had been made to pull u. S. Forces out of iraq i think at the beginning of 2011. I was down talking to a squadron of seals, and the chief petty officer was a little upset. At one point he said, hey , we are going out on missions every night risking our lives and we are pulling out in four months, why are we continuing to go on these missions . At the time they were to stop a network of suicide bombers baghdad, hit the markets and those sort of things. It was a great question. Theonly answer i could give senior chief was we came here, we have a responsibility. And let me tell you something, you have no idea about how your missions can change the outcome of war history. If you stop a suicide bomber from blowing up a market in baghdad today, will there have been a young man or woman in the market who was going to find a cure for cancer, who was going to be the Prime Minister<\/a> of iraq in 20 years and do some thing great . You just dont know, so you have to do your job. From the military standpoint, we have to do our job. That is not to say you dont sit around saying what if, why are we doing this . Thats not to say you cant in your own mind question the policy, and you should, and the senior officer had an obligation to raise issues with the secretary of defense, but more often than not, you have to be satisfied with doing your job. Let me make it a little broader. I was with president bush last year or so, year and a half ago, and some of the asked him a question about his legacy and in particular, iraq. He said something i thought was very thoughtful. He said they are still writing books about george washington, not making the implication he was george washington, but he said people will assess my legacy for millennia to come. He said it is a little hard at this point in time, not very far removed from iraq to say it was the right or wrong decision. And i had to think about that. Questioned my mind whether it was the right decision, but i realized as a leader i had to get out and leap my troops to do americas business. But i realized history will tell whether or not taking down saddam hussein, trying to institute some form of democracy blood andas worth the treasure that we and the iraqis gave. I think the jury may still be out on that. Mr. Axelrod you mentioned him and the other president s you worked for. Talk to me about the leadership lessons you learned from each of them. Adm. Mcraven it is interesting, and you will know, having been in there many times, but when you sit in the situation room and you have an opportunity to observe up close how the president of the United States<\/a> deals with his senior staff, what i was surprised by were the similarities between george w. Bush and barack obama in terms of how they dealt with their staff. What i found with both bush and obama was they listened. They would listen to their staff, they were happy to have members of their staff disagree. And then they would take that input, though often make a decision. And make aff decision. I thought that was important. Even though their personalities are different, president obama much more subdued, although you know better than most, he has a great sense of humor and a great personality. Sometimes it did not come forward publicly, and of course president bush, much more outgoing from a public standpoint. But also very thoughtful behind the scenes. What both of these leaders understood was listen. Listen to the subject matter experts, taken the information and then make the best decision, the best judgment you can. That is the fundamentals of leadership i think in any role that any leader would have. Mr. Axelrod i was going to ask you about some of the current events. Approached you about coming and speaking, you were reluctant because you did not want to get drawn you have criticized President Trump<\/a> and you didnt want to get drawn into that. It is unusual for military and retired military to be as outspoken as you have been. Was that a hard decision for you and what kind of feedback did you get from peers . Adm. Mcraven [laughs] it was actually not a hard decision. I thought about it but it was not hard decision and i will walk you through the timeline. One of the things ive told ,olks is when i am criticized as a Senior Leader<\/a> having spoken out against the president , i always tell people, that is fair criticism. We have this unwritten rule that as a retired senior officer you are not supposed to speak badly about the president , and in general i think that is a good rule. But i also realized that for myself, i needed to look myself in the mirror and say am i doing what i think is right . Wasof this started when i at the university of texas and the president came out and said the press was the enemy of the American People<\/a>. I said i have fought the enemy of the American People<\/a> and it is not the press. I have been raked over the coals by the press and i understand how challenging it can be, but at the end of the day, to me, the press, the first amendment, is maybe the single most important thing we have as part of our constitution. And for the president of the United States<\/a> to attack the said, wasress, as i the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime, and i stand by my words. Timesegan a number of when i felt it was appropriate to speak out. Know,d not to do it, you just every time i was offended by some thing the president said. I wanted to make sure if i was going to use my voice, and if i was going to have to suffer the slings and arrows, i wanted to make sure i was at least in my own mind on solid ground. If youe also told folks, are in the military, if you are uniformed military person, you cannot speak out against the commanderinchief. It is not your place. For those of us that are retired and speak out, the criticism is fair. We just copy weve just got to be able to deal with criticism. Mr. Axelrod what is the impact of this president what has the impact been on the military and on the morale of the military . Military inved the ways that are unusual, unique really. Itical military, and now we are in this period where he has lost this race and fired the leadership of the pentagon, he has put some strong ideologues into those positions, including a former general who and calla phobic president obama a terrorist leader and so on. Down to this filter people in uniform . Adm. Mcraven i certainly wouldnt want to speak for the end and women in uniform and terms of the broad swath, because i think there is this mix of support for President Trump<\/a>. There are some folks out there who absolutely believe he is doing the right thing, investing more in military hardware. And theres a lot of truth to that. He has obviously continued the pursuit of isis in syria. He has done some things i know some of the rankandfile believe to be good and appropriate things. Conversely, i know a lot on the others that come into your point, they think he has dramatically affected morale by intervening particularly on some highprofile cases where the military was not actually able to adjudicate the case. The issue going on right now about firing mark esper and joe kiernan and the Senior Leader<\/a>ship in the department of defense, the issue there as you know, is about the transition. I was talking to somebody the other day, when i was commander of the joint special Operations Force<\/a> in iraq, i dont know the exact days, but i would have to brief president bush on the missions we were getting ready to do outside of iraq and afghanistan, and there were a lot of those. I remember one day, i am briefing from iraq to the situation room in the white house and it is president bush and his team, and several days later, i turn on the video teleconference and up pops a new president and a new team, with the exception of bob gates. Thats the way a transition is supposed to work. Again, the days that separated my brief to bush and obama, i dont know the exact timeframe, but it was not far apart. The reason the Obama Administration<\/a> was able to get up to speed quickly is because president bush had given president obama and his team a great transition, a great turnover. You really have to have that if you are going to be focused on National Security<\/a>. I think the concern i am seeing from some of my colleagues now of beheading the Senior Leader<\/a>ship of the military and putting in folks that are in my opinion not qualified to do the job at this point. Not necessarily all of them bad guys but certainly i would say not fully qualified to do the job. That is going to make it tough. If we are not allowing the president elect and his team to do the transition, it puts us at greater risk. Mr. Axelrod i agree. Lets go to some questions from some students and start with seth, a veteran scholar sergeant in the marine corps class of 2024. Seth . Seth thank you. Good afternoon, sir. I am a student veteran on campus and i am currently in hyde park. When i was a marine, i had the reading list. I am curious what books you would suggest for Young Leaders<\/a> like me to broaden our horizons on American History<\/a> and leadership in general. Adm. Mcraven great question. The books i will put them into a couple of categories. There is a fiction book called of a an eagle, hon classic book for most of the west pointers. It is a great novel about a young leader who starts with an enlisted trip in world war i, goes to world war ii, and then something similar to vietnam. But it is also this remarkable novel about leadership and the contrast between his style of leadership, which is exemplary, is ahen a careerist, who good combat leader but not good at taking care of the men and women under his command. That from a novel stan put standpoint is good. Allf my favorites is quiet on the western front. The reason i like it is because it is about a german soldier on the western front during world war i. Why is that important . If you read that book and put your name in for his name, you would have the exact same experiences you would recognize everything the german soldier is going through. Why is that important . Sometimes you have to recognize that the enemy you cannot always dehumanize the enemy. They are people and you have to recognize they are motivated in ways that might be similar to how you are motivated. I have to think those two books. Of course, you can see the library behind me, i would say 800 of the 1000 books behind me are on every thing for military strategy to special operations. With on war wrong and understanding the great strategists as well. You forrod seth, thank your service and your question. Make say, dont forget your bed, great books. We did a wonderful podcast together so i had to bone up for those and i enjoyed both of them. I highly recommend. A lot of leadership lessons in both of those books. Lets see, we have robert, class of 2023. Robert, where are you . Robert good afternoon. I am currently in hyde park, i am in air force rotc. Is there any advice you would give for people in rotc or people considering joining the military after college that want to make a career out of it . Adm. Mcraven i also went through the rotc program, the naval rotc at the university of texas, and my son went through the rotc at comes in. It is phenomenal. Get at the opportunity to good military education as well as a more liberal education at the school you are going to. The one thing i would offer you, when you get into rotc, it is important in any organization to learn the basics. That is what rotc does for you. Little things like learn how to wear your uniform, what are the ranks . You cant be a good leader unless you understand the basics of whatever organization you are going into first. Will give you that opportunity, and probably also the opportunity to travel a little bit. Man the time to talk to the the enlisted men and women in the rotc unit, and take those four years as you would at any college to absorb as much about the organization as you can. That way when you become a second lieutenant, you will be prepared to do your job. Mr. Axelrod thank you, robert. Best of luck to you. Kevin, a graduate student in the informatics and an army veteran who served in iraq. Kevin, where are you . There you are. You are muted. For taking theu time, admiral. Really appreciate it. My question is, how can we all repairre americas americas reputation post 45, and how do we help people who refuse to believe the truth . Adm. Mcraven great question. I think internationally, on january 20 at 12 01, we will find a lot of problems we have had internationally will quickly become resolved. Africa, theyato to want american leadership, they are begging for american leadership. Bidensoon as president comes in, he is not an isolationist. He is going to value the relationships we have with nato, he is going to value our relationships with our allies and partners, and they will recognize that on day one. That is not to say we dont have bridges we need to rebuild a little bit, but i think instead of having to rebuild a bridge in one direction, we will find people coming to the middle because they want us to be part of their interNational Security<\/a>. In terms of how do you deal with friends and family, which i have a lot of, who are not necessarily supportive of my political position . You have to listen. And you cannot be too righteous. It is easy sometimes to think my goodness, why dont they understand . Why cant they see what i see . I would say you might want to check your pride at the door a little bit. Check your sense of righteousness just a little bit and listen. That may not sway them and it probably will not sway you, but i think they will be a lot more receptive if they think you are prepared to listen to them and be thoughtful about their positions. Then maybe you can begin to build bridges a little easier. But if you come in and youve already got your armor on and you are ready for a fight, that will not help anybody and i dont think you will get much traction with that. Mr. Axelrod thank you, kevin. Let me followup on these questions. You speak about what will happen the day that President Biden<\/a> takes the oath of office in terms of how the world views us and how we view the world. What about yourself . Would you consider playing a role in some form or fashion in the next administration . Adm. Mcraven david, ive always said i am not into politics but like you, i like policy. Work in aortunity to policy environment and provide policy guidance were available, absolutely. Itsis in my wheelhouse, something i enjoy doing. If offered, i would absolutely consider it. Mr. Axelrod what would be the most important advice you would give the president as he takes office . Adm. Mcraven well, i dont know that the president needs my advice. The one thing i think is back to , almost 73s question Million People<\/a> voted donald trump. So the president , if hes going to pull the country together, i think hes going to have to take a hard look at what were some of their concerns and is there a way to bridge that gap . Recognizing that he is going to be a president for all americans. If youre going to be a president for all americans, you have to do what i think joe biden has done exceedingly well over the years, extend his hand across the aisle, see where we can get compromise, and move forward together. Youre not always going to be able to compromise, there are some folks who are entrenched, but that is something he does very well. We are going to need that. When you have almost 73 Million People<\/a>, there is probably something in there of value he must consider if hes going to be the president. Mr. Axelrod in terms of National Security<\/a>, what do you see as the greatest threats we face . Weve seen the power for very little investment of cyber tactics and cyber attacks. Particularlyes are vulnerable to that, but so is the infrastructure of companies of countries. Would you see the greatest threats in this era . Adm. Mcraven i think the greatest threat to National Security<\/a> is k12 education. The reason i say that is because if we are not growing the next generation of National Security<\/a> leaders, if we are not teaching elementarying in school and junior high and high school, if we are not teaching them, giving them a classic liberal education where they have to think critically, where they are exposed to different ideas and different cultures, they also need to learn stem. But education to me is where we need to focus our attention if we are going to grow the next generation of National Security<\/a> leaders. When it comes to immediate threats outside our boundaries, my focus would be on russia. China is going to be a competitor, we recognize that. I dont see us coming to blows with china, i think they are too smart for that and hopefully we are too smart for that. In, he to me and put plays a great game better than anyone out there. You look at crimea and he is pushing ukraine and syria. He has been very aggressive, he threatened us on the high seas and in the air. A miscalculation with russia could lead to a shooting conflict. I dont know if it would be a big war, but i am more concerned about russia than i am china or even north korea. Only kim jongun is concerned about the survival of his regime, i think you can understand that is a given, and that makes him a player you can work with because you understand what he is trying to achieve. He is a rational actor in an irrational way. Mr. Axelrod andrew has a question for you, andrew step on up. Andrew good afternoon, admiral and thank you for your time, great to have you here. I have a question regarding history and historical studies. I am part of the class of 2022. What is the most impactful or beneficial period of history to study as a professional leader . Adm. Mcraven wow, ive had thousands of questions over the years and ive not sure anyone has ever tossed that my way. If i had to think about history a lot of the books back here our ancient history. My sense of history is it really hasnt changed much when you think about the nature of warfare and you think about the nature of diplomacy. I will tell you, i think it is important to read, how did we deal with the cuban missile crisis and how did the allies come together in world war ii and what were the bad things we did in south america in the 1960s . Those are all important things to understand. But if you go back and read about ancient roman ancient greece, if you read machiavelli the fact of the matter is, the dynamics between human beings have not changed much in thousands and thousands of years. You have to understand that i think going into it, and once you have the foundation and this recognition that battle does not really change the weapons might change, we might go from calvary to motorized but the nature of warfare into the nature of diplomacy does not change. What changes are the circumstances. Read a little bit of ancient history and then find those kind of modern, you know, ticket items like the cuban missile crisis, how did kennedy deal without, the vietnam war, and then pull the two together. The history in between is all more of the same. Mr. Axelrod thank you, andrew. Jay, step on up. Jay thank you for speaking with us. I am a former submariner currently in washington, d. C. With the class of 2022. My question is what advice you give to veterans transitioning to civilian life after a career of service . Adm. Mcraven thank you. What you will find is you have to learn the business first. When i transitioned from running to universityon of texas, i knew nothing about Higher Education<\/a> or health care. Kids, 100,000sand employees, eight academic institutions and six Large Health Care<\/a> institutions and i knew nothing about that. I had a five month sabbatical from when i retired and when i took a job and im telling you, i spent that five months talking to people, learning everything i could about the business. Back to the question that was posed early on about what is good in rotc, youve got to learn the basics. I needed to understand, what does a chair do, what does a dean do, what does a provost do . Whats the difference between an oncological surgeon . I wanted to understand the basics. Once you understand the basics or least as much as you can about the organization, then the leadership skills you had as a submariner are fungible. You will immediately find that once you understand how things work and you build a matrix, you build your own ok i see how this works, you will maneuver nicely. If you dont take the time upfront to work hard and learn the business, everything you learned in the military will go willaught because you struggle to understand the basics. And then finally, its just a matter of working hard and earning the respect of your colleagues and you know how to do that. Mr. Axelrod thank you for your service and your question. Up . Lly, jack, is jack lined not, i have his question. We dont see him. Jack, who is a west point graduate, former army ranger, asks what are the security risks and benefits you see in the trend of commercialization of the space industry . Im. Mcraven yeah, you know, think the commercialization of the space industry is actually a good thing. I have a brotherinlaw who works at nasa, i have watched the space industry over the years there he is. Are you up there . Think what nasa has been surprised by and ive heard a number of nasa directors talk about this fact, they really didnt think commercialization was going to work. Now that it has worked, weve seen spacex rendezvous with the International Space<\/a> station, i think this marriage of public and private, if you will, will serve the space industry well. There will always be those folks who want to work on the federal government side with nasa, but there are always those who want to work on the commercial side and have a little more latitude and freedom to be inventive and those sorts of things. I think the partnership will serve america well. Mr. Axelrod jack, you also sent in a question that i felt was great and i want to quickly ask this one as well. You asked, what do believe about leadership that everybody else thinks is crazy . Adm. Mcraven yeah, i am not sure i have learned anything new in leadership in terms of everything that you are going to read. We know as leaders, youve got to lead from the front, you have to take care of your troops, you want to share the hardships. Those sort of things are the most commonly known things about leadership. But the one thing i think really has stuck with me is i get back to hard work. Whenever i went through an organization, i found in order to earn the respect of the men and women i worked with, i had to work hard. I had to show up early, i had to homemy hump all day and go late. I will give you one more story. When i was a navy captain, i was in a very serious accident and 9 11 happens and i was asked to come to the white house. I went to the white house and i did not have time to rehab. About 18 months after my time in the white house, the seal was in virginia beach, they were having a conference and they invited me down. , we all got in a circle and did our pt, and we were going to go for a 10 mile run. I was still kind of broken so i went to do the pt and i got through the pushups but it was hard to do a lot of other things. Then we do the run. As typical seals, it starts off as a race and i am hanging tough or about 100 yards. Then the guys take off. I am struggling because my injury was to my pelvis and it was hard to run. As i am running, it was a two mile loop around the course we were doing, and as i am running, this kid after a while lapss me. He is a young officer and as he is lapping me and i am struggling to run, he stops and says, sir, what are you doing . I said what you mean . He said, sir, you dont have anything else to prove, you dont need to be doing this, you have nothing else to prove. I did not say anything and the kid ran on and he was absolutely wrong. You have to prove something every, single day. If you wake up and think you dont have anything to prove, if you wake up and think you dont have to work harder than everybody else, you dont have to lead better than everybody else, that you dont have to earn the seal pride, you are mistaken. If you are a leader, you wake up every, single morning and realize you still have something to prove. When the day comes you think you have nothing left to prove, it is time for you to do some thing else your something else. Mr. Axelrod i bet that young man who lapped you probably did think you were crazy. So thats probably a good answer to the question. Having gotten to know you a little and knowing what the people i worked with thought about you, there is no race you would not win at the end because your character and commitment is unparalleled and your insights, not just into military issues but into people, which is such an important part of leadership. We are so grateful for your being here, i am grateful for all of your years of service and to know you and appreciate what youve done in the past and what you will do in the future for our country. So thank you very much. Adm. Mcraven my pleasure, was great to join you all today. Thanks. In about five minutes, we will go live to the Kennedy Space<\/a> center in florida for a nasa News Conference<\/a> a short while ago it was announced tomorrows plant spacex launch was postponed until sunday due to weather. You can watch the News Conference<\/a> live at 6 00 p. M. Eastern here on cspan. C stands washington journal, everyday taking your calls live on the air on the news of the day, and we will discuss policy issues that impact you. Saturday morning, the president of a network of enlightened women discusses how republican women candidates and incumbents fared in this years general election. Then, the black voters matter cofounder on the role of black voters, particularly women, in campaign 2020. Watch c stands washington journal live at 7 00 eastern saturday morning. Be sure to join the discussion with phone calls, facebook comments, Text Messages<\/a> and tweets. Book tv on cspan two has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. Saturday at 1 00 p. M. Eastern, from a recent virtual southern festival of books, three authors were flecked on life in appalachia. And two others discuss the jim crow era in the south. P. M. , a new yorker staff writer discusses his book on joe biden. Eastern, at 1 00 p. M. From the southern festival of books, a journalist talks about his book about a civil rights case which helped reaffirm the right to a trial by jury in most criminal cases. To others offer thoughts on Investigative Journalism<\/a> and democracy. At 9 00 p. M. Eastern on afterwords, an author talks about his book. He is interviewed by a law professor. Cspanv this weekend on two. Use your mobile devices, laptop or phone and go to cspan. Org election for easy ,ccess to election 2020 results the balance of power in congress, our latest video live and ondemand on the transition of power. Go to cspan. Org election. Earlier today on capitol hill, newly elected house members began orientation. If you to reporters afterwards. We will show some of their comments, getting with byron daniels, the new member from florida. How is the briefing . Mr. Daniels it is good, it is orientation. A lot of information to make sure we have our bearings, so we can represent the people back home. Crazyiously times are during a pandemic. Are they giving you good advice for your office . Mr. Daniels yeah, it will be a work in process. We have good protocols from staff, that is important. Also trying to understand what are the quarantine protocols if you have","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia601804.us.archive.org\/29\/items\/CSPAN_20201113_220000_Conversation_with_Retired_Special_Ops_Commander_Adm._William_McRaven\/CSPAN_20201113_220000_Conversation_with_Retired_Special_Ops_Commander_Adm._William_McRaven.thumbs\/CSPAN_20201113_220000_Conversation_with_Retired_Special_Ops_Commander_Adm._William_McRaven_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240716T12:35:10+00:00"}