Later, more about the state of Small Business, a guest, Amanda Ballantyne from the main Street Alliance. You are watching washington journal. We will be right back. Top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. President former barack obama on his life and political career in his newly released memoir. Sunday open markets Institute Director and her book, seven ways for corporations rule your life and how to take back control, interviewed by a Bloomberg News reporter. And a former appellate judge and book,ofessor and his examining the constitution through the eyes of judges and legal scholars and historians. Weekend ontv this cspan2. Washington journal continues. Host joining us now is john hudak, author of this book marijuana, a short history. Talking here about Marijuana Legalization here. Good morning. Election day featured some more news, several states there active in the area of legalizing Recreational Marijuana. Give us a sketch of what happened. Guest four states had adult use cannabis measures and one had a medical legalization measure on the ballot. All five of those measures past. What is remarkable about that is that the states were very different from one another. They were from all corners of the country, montana, arizona, south dakota, states that are andral, conservative, despite the divisiveness in politics, these states came together and voted in many cases overwhelmingly to reform their laws and try something other than prohibition. Host we know that marijuana was 11 statesadults in and in washington, d. C. For Recreational Use guest and vermont continued their march, passing through the legislature a bill that would allow a commercial market to go into play, adding host tell us why this is happening. To what do you attribute the rise of each state to this type of legislation . Guest passing cannabis lead to lead legalization ballots to get their legislature is a response by the public to what has been decades long failure in Public Policy when it comes to the war on drugs. People recognize our drug laws are problematic. They are putting a lot of people in jail. Cannabis in particular leads to hundreds of thousands of arrest every year. Arrests every year. Disproportionately, those arrests are people of color. People look out at that and say maybe they have experimented with cannabis before, regular users, or have never touched it. What they are seeing is the failure to the war on drugs is leading to a crisis in this country, and they want to step away from prohibition and try something different. When they look at neighboring states who have legalized cannabis, they see the sky has not fallen. While there might be problems, the states are reacting to the problems. Then those policies, legalization policies, or more preferable im sorry, a super majority of americans do not favor prohibition. Host we will do three lines this morning, if you support legislation to legalize marijuana, call this number, 202 7488000. If you oppose the legislation, call 202 7488001. If you are just not sure, 202 7488002. We should point out that medical marijuana is already legal in 34 states. How long has medical marijuana been allowed in this country . Ijuana been allowed in this country . Guest states started reforming their medical laws in 1996 when california passed an initiative californias medical initiative earned more votes than bill clinton did on the same ballot for reelection. That really began this now process of states recognizing the nations law, the federal law is out of date and there might be something possible at the state level that can bring relief to patients suffering from serious and debilitating illnesses. California was the first, but you mentioned, it certainly was not the last. Medical cannabis now has the support of over 90 of americans across the country, and we see that when states like mississippi, which passed it on election day with overwhelming support, 60 voted to legalize medical marijuana. Host when it comes back to Recreational Marijuana use, the answers might seem obvious. What are the pros and cons on each side of the arguments on whether states should legalize . Guest as i noted earlier, the dip the disproportionate effects of drugs are felt by communities of color. Hundreds of thousands of into a jewels are arrested every year for violating cannabis laws. Most americans recognize that is a poor waste of resources. There are much bigger fish to fry, other crimes Law Enforcement should be focusing on, so because of that, they recognize some that is possible. In addition, we know cannabis is the most widely used illegal substance in the United States. What happens when that is sold on the black market is there is no regulation, no Consumer Protection, have no idea necessarily how that plant is produced, unless you are growing yourself. You have no idea what adulterer in sarin that. A legal, regulated system helps deal with those issues and protect the product and consumer. In addition to that, while cannabis sales on the illicit market in some of the states are booming in some cases, the state is not able to extract cash revenue from that and use that for other purposes. One of the reasons legalization is happening is not just to secure the system, but also to get revenue out of that system, recognizing those sales are happening whether it is legal or not. Being able to use the power of taxation to deal with some of the effects that come from cannabis use is important. On the negative side, the antireform side, most of the individuals focus on issues of Public Health and safety. Addiction, dependence, driving under the influence, etc. It is important to realize those issues also existed under prohibition. The question is, how effective is our government in combating those issues. There are different models. It legalization is one of them, but that is really the focus on the campaign. Host so because for our guests. Michelle is calling from new york, good morning. Caller good morning. Thanks for taking my call. Host i see you are calling on the line for folks who are not sure about legalization. Tell us why. Caller ok. Im a 70yearold female and have been using, up to this point, Recreational Marijuana. At this point, myself and many of my peers, seem to be on this cvd trend, which yes it does help with bone pain and things like that, but i think the ,ombination of the thc and cbd used properly, is an excellent resource for people with chronic pain, certainly much better option than an opioid. Also, you mentioned, john, about the tax revenues. I live in new york state and travel outofstate to buy legal Recreational Marijuana, and i is by farurity of it it is a much better product. It is regulated. Ok, the taxes you will pay more money from a premium pot whether you buy it that way or illegally. Im just not sure. Im a you i am a user and enjoy it, and im still not sure. And what steps really have to be taken to legalize it and keep it safe. Host michelle, thank you. John hudak, what would you say to michelle . Caller two points. Your point on the combination of cbd and thc, theres a lot of research to understand what people call the entourage of fact, how different chemical compounds within the cap vocal the cannabis plants, how they interact with each other to create certain outcomes, whether that outcome is the traditional high, whether the outcome is some sort of medical relief, whether it is for pain or other purposes. Theres a lot of research that is trying to understand how those interactions produce outcomes, something the medical community has not devoted enough attention to. I think you are right, michelle, there are a lot of users that speak from their own experience to say certain combinations of can have a noise pork in different ways for them. Some are effective and some are less effective, but i think it is inspiring medical research is taking up this mantle and trying to understand that. Your point on tax revenue, i think it is important to note that while states extract tax revenue as you mentioned on traveling out of state or purchasing in another state, which is keeping that tax revenue in the state he purchased, cannabis is not going to be you purchased, cannabis is not going to be a grand solution for a state budget well. It will produce significant tax revenue that was not there previously, but one thing important to caution is politicians and other advocates promising that this will be a cure all for problems that are now being increased. Mixedms increased in the of a pandemic and recession. It cannabis will just not do that. Tax revenue at shelf itself should not be a focus but shirt and lean should be part of the convent but certainly should be part of the conversation. Host james, you are on with john. Caller thank you. A previous speaker of the house is a ceo on the board of legalize marijuana. Marijuana is used in the black neighborhood to soup less to suppress. Once you get a felony, i got caught 25 years ago with enough marijuana to put in your fingernails and got put in jail for it. You sell it today, they bring it up. The democrats, they need an executive order immediately to extend that and we need expungement. The white people are using this as a big business, going on wall street, but the black people are still suffering for it. A majority of the black felonyion, it is still a to get caught with over an ounce of marijuana, and it goes on your record and you cannot get housing, certain business license, cannot vote. But this methamphetamine, they lack these people up, treat them , not on their record. It is racism. The democrats need to take this recordsnge peoples with possession of marijuana. Host james, thank you for calling. Mr. Hudak, expunging is an effort on capitol hill with legislation that the house will take up. Do you want to respond to the caller, first . Caller james, on fort guest james, unfortunately, an uncommons not one. After arrests, we have seen prison sentences in many cases that are disproportionately higher than those by white americans. It is unfortunate. I hear the passion in your voice, and i cant begin to understand what you have gone through and what your family has gone through, but it is an important story of the American Experience that i think needs to thatld around drug policy, drug arrest is just a one and the problems it will cause. It will limit people economically, socially, harm families, harm parents and children, harm others in the community. I think its an important moment to start thinking about not just a Public Health and safety effects of legalization but the Public Health and Public Safety effects of prohibition and how many peoples lives have been affected in the way he describes or worse described or worse by our nations cannabis laws. There is movement on capitol hill right now to address one of the other points that james noted, expungement. Next week, the house will vote on a comprehensive cannabis legalization bill. It will be the most copperheads of bill voted on by a chamber of commerce in history with guard to cannabis reform. Of the positions provisions would involve expungement. That would be at the federal level for lowlevel canvas crimes. Very few lowlevel cannabis crimes are charged at the federal level. The vast majority are at the state level and the federal legislation cannot expunge statelevel crimes. But there is any effort in the state to have expungement around lowlevel cannabis crimes happen. In some cases, that requires individuals to petition the court or a District Attorney to do this. In other places like illinois, that expungement is automatic, which reduces the cost to the individual who either has that on the record or was incarcerated for it. They dont then need to shell out money or find an attorney to make this happen, that is more efficient than expungement and is an important distinction in the conversation. Host so in the u. S. House, watch for more acts coming up this week, more standing for the marijuana opportunity reinvestment and expungement act, sponsored by Vice President elect kamala harris, jerrold nadler. It removes marijuana from scheduled substances under the controlled substances act. It eliminates, no penalties for people who manufacture, distribute, or possess marijuana. It is tabulates a process to expunge convictions and conduct sentencing review hearings related to the federal cannabis offenses and imposes a 5 tax on cannabis products. Any chance of that legislation passing . Guest i think theres a good chance it passes the House Democrats in congress. A couple republicans signaled support for this. Its unlikely the bill would go to the floor without having the votes. Particularly, the speaker wont put up bills that will ultimately fail. I think passage in the house is going to be a first step in a very short road. The senate is not going to take this up. Mitch mcconnell signaled legislation. Even if you were to put it to the floor and senate, it is hard to see it getting 50 votes, are to see it getting 60 votes necessary to be a filibuster. I think that is true in the Current Senate and probably true in the next one as well gaveling in in january, but it is an important step in the right direction, toward this nation recognizing federal Level Solutions are necessary to deal with cannabis laws and this stepbystep statelevel approach has some of that, but certainly it falls short of resolving the policy problems that exist in this country. Host where is your sense of where the president elect is on this issue . Guest the president elect is certainly has certainly signaled support for some level of reform when it comes to our nations drug laws. It is certainly not the same level for support for reform like Vice President elect harris had or others running in the democratic primary this year. When i think is important for the new administration to recognize, the president elect signaled this in some of the debates he had this year, that has faileddrugs policy. He has recognized and apologized for some of the laws he either authored or voted for in the senate with regard to criminal justice and specifically drug policy. Its important for the administration to recognize cannabis policy is not just about cannabis, it is about criminal justice, policing, social and racial equity, Economic Opportunity and education. It cannabis businesses across the country or Small Businesses are employing a lot of people. In this producing a lot of economic activity. We need to stop thinking about the nations drug laws as simply about substance but more holistically about the broader impact those laws that prohibition has had on this country and how changes to Public Policy can really improve the elements and parts of our society that have been harmed by 80 to 100 years of the drug war. Host steve is in South Carolina on the line for those not sure about Marijuana Legalization. Steve, tell us why. Caller thank you for taking my call. Theres a couple Different Things i like to talk about. One would be from a safety aspect, when dealing with heavy manufacturing, construction, and such like that. If it is a legalized product, and your employees come in the influence, it would be a big concern. I was a many of in manufacturing for almost 40 years, and the other aspect i would like to think about, would wonder about, is i would admit many, many years ago, maybe back in college, i tried the marijuana at that time. The marijuana they bring out now is, i understand, to be more itent, and one of the things always concerned about, from my aspect, is how this affects peoples how do i put it, their drive or ambition to be a good citizen. I know that sounds like a strange comment, but yeah, those would be the two areas im very concerned about the safety, again. Even from a standpoint of driving an automobile under the influence. Host thank you, steve, for calling. Guest thank you for that question. Those are two concerns often times discussed in a cannabis legalization debate. On the first point of companies that perhaps do not want their employees to come in under the influence because it creates a Serious Health or safety issues, like operating heavy machinery, school bus drivers, doctors, police officers, emts. What states have done has put in place protections for businesses like that to allow them to have a drugfree workplace, whether that substance is legal or illegal. Its important to think about it in the same way you think about alcohol. If you have worked in a company or operated in a company of heavy machinery, same way if you have an employee showed drunk to work and can be terminated, the same would apply for someone who would show up under the influence of cannabis, whether that substance is legal or illegal. Those protections dont go away simply because the state has legalized him legalized cannabis. Those protections have been reiterated in many places by courts and other forms of Public Policy. On your second point on potency, it is true cannabis sold and dispensaries tends to be more potent than you would find at the street level and certainly more potent than 30 to 40 years ago. I think it is important for Consumer Protection and consumer purchasing those cannabis, to understand that. It is clearly labeled on Legal Cannabis products the potency of the product. You can had conversations with the individuals on at the dispensary to figure out how much you might need to take, how , and the rule tends to be going slowly. If you are smoking cannabis, take one or two hits to see how it affects you before you go further. It is important to remember, particularly with smoked or vap ed cannabis, the body has a selfregulation process. If you have higher potent cannabis, youre not going to need as much as low potent cann