Texts and tweets. To harry to burn from a National PublicTv Documentary and then come back and talk about him. Student of national and international affairs. She took matters with all public issues. Some of the farmers were illiterate and couldnt vote. Burn and why harry does he play a central role in your story . Youngest was the legislator in the General Assembly in 1920. He was a freshman delicate and he was up for reelection in the fall. Small town of the in east tennessee which was the republican part of tennessee. Voted with the antiseparatist and for theificationists 19th amendment, he changed his mind because of a letter he received from his mother who he describes in that clip. Mind tilted the vote by one vote and thats how the 19th amendment finally got ratified. The vote fors ratification of the constitutional amendment come down to tennessee . Guest a convoluted path. Constitution says that new amendments have to be passed by vote in each 2 3 chamber and then it has to be ratified by three quarters of the states and the union. At that time, there were 48 states which meant 36 had to ratify. In the summer of 1920, 35 had ratified so you had just one more state which was needed before ratification and it would enter the constitution and american women in every state would be able to vote in the 1920 election. That was a president ial year so it was a pivotal election. Tennessee wasthat the last possible choice for a place, for its state to ratify. Most of the other states in the south had actually already agreed had already a drip rejected the 19th amendment and there were a few outstanding states but two of them were in new england, connecticut and vermont. The governors they refused to call their legislators back into special session which is what it would have required because the legislature was not in session at that time and they refused. They were under corporate pressure from their corporate interests who played a role in their political lives. They refused. There were two Southern States still not heard from, north carolina, which everyone knew what was going to not ratify and florida, same thing. So tennessee was the only one left. It was still a dangerous place to stage this probably final battle for womens suffrage the constitutional level. The suffragettes were not happy about having to stage this, to fight for the last state in a Southern State which makes it more complicated for reasons im sure we will discuss. Difficulta very realization that tennessee was the one but they had to deal antisuffragists, it was something of a last stand. The governor of tennessee didnt want it here there. The Tennessee Legislature did not want to be the deciding factor. A lot of powers tennessee not have to be in a pivotal position that it turned out it was. Host if tennessee had failed to ratify, what wouldve happened to womens suffrage . Guest thats an interesting speculation because as i said, there were two northern states still in play but the governors had totally refused, completely refused to call their legislatures back and they probably would not have done that for the 1920 election. What the suffragists sensed, and i think they were correct, is that the nation was swinging conservative more frame of mind. The progress of your was over, we had just emerged from a very unpopular war, the great war, wasd war i, and the nation swinging away from that idea of america being the beacon of the free world, going into a more isolationist position. There were a lot of domestic problems that were having to be decided. So this is a pivotal election. The suffragists felt if they could not yet tennessee to ratify, the momentum would be lost. The momentum in the spring had been against them. There had been several rejections including moderate delaware. Delaware rejected the 19th amendment. They were really nervous that if they couldnt resolve this ratification in tennessee, in the summer of 1920, they were not perhaps going to see it ratified in their lifetime or for the foreseeable future. What they feared is that once the election was passed, there was pressure from the political establishment that would be over and the nation was having second thoughts. There were several states that wanted to rescind their prior ratification of the 19th amendment and also it was being challenged in court. Correct but were they felt that they couldnt get it done now, it was not going to happen and those folks who have lived through the equal rights amendment which was the successor amendment to the 19th and it was introduced into congress in 1923 know that an amendment can come close to the finish line as the e. R. A. Has and yet not make it into the constitution. I think their fears were wellfounded. Host by 1920, how many states allowed women to vote . About 12 or 15e states allowed for what was called. Or it. Andets kind of complicated our federalist system. The constitution provides that the states are in charge of voting requirements for their citizens and also for the administration of elections and we know that because thats why there is such a hodgepodge of election law today because the states are in charge and they can make the decision. You can get the right to vote by two paths. One is your state gives it to you by a change in the in theution, a change fundamental laws of voting in that state and the other is through a constitutional amendment which would supersede all of the states requirements and give the vote in one fell swoop to all women in every state. The suffragists had pursued a double track, shall we say, from the beginning. They worked in the states in referenda in which men were the only people who could vote where the women deserved the vote. So you had scores of referenda in many states and they would try again and try again several times. Sometimes it failed and was never revived. About 15 states, most of them in the west, but pivotally, illinois had given women the vote in 1917i believe and new york also in 1917. I may be wrong on the date but there were a few outposts of midwestern and midwestern and eastern states. The northeast corridor was very reluctant about womens suffrage. They had managed through an enormous effort to get these 15 states to allow women to vote and it starts in the western states which are not very populated, white only, idaho, colorado and then goes through california, oregon, washington. When new york allows suffrage in 1917, that is a big milestone. Thats when things begin to move again because its the most populous state in the politicians cannot ignore womens suffrage anymore. You have these 15 states where women can vote and then you have several other states postworld war i, so just in the last year or two, who gave women the right to vote in president ial elections. They couldnt vote for their governor, their senator, their congressman but they could vote for president. Now you have quite a few women who can vote in the president ial election even if they dont have full suffrage. Politicians have to pay a little willore attention to the of the women electorate. You see a different calculation in their minds in 1920. Host could you describe the standing of women, the legal standing of women in American Society and this time . Tost its best to go back into the 19th century when the movement begins. Time, the idea of womens legal rights is almost an oxymoron because they have so few rights. Ownman could not own her property if she was married, everything belong to her husband. If her husband dies, it often went to his brother and so his her brotherinlaw would be in charge of everything she owned. It woman did not have custodial rights over her children. If she left the marriage for any reason, she could not have custody of the children. They belonged to her husband. A woman could not keep her own wages, her own inheritance against the Property Rights which revert to her husband. She could not testify in a court of law. She could not bring civil suit. N her own name stop she could not enter colleges or universities or most professions so this kind of outrage of this is what stimulates the womens Rights Movement in the mid 19th century. Those into 1920, some of property laws which are state , nothave been improved all, but some have been improved so women can claim their own property in certain states. Of course, womens colleges are open so women have more access to Higher Education and some state universities are open to women. If you professions are leading a few women in. That wont change until the 1970s. So, you see a very small you see very small changes that are important but they are haphazard and they are also very hardfought. Women fought for decades to make these changes. Thats one of the reasons that they want the vote. The movement begins as a womens Rights Movement. And they are asking for a lot of changes. Focusins to narrow its into suffrage for the right to vote. Inwomen had representation the places were policy and laws are being made, then maybe they can change the laws through the legal system so thats why suffrage becomes the leading edge of this womens Rights Movement. Following that, alice paul says we have the boat and now we want to make sure we are leveling the Playing Field and all the other aspects of womens legal rights and thats really equal rights amendment comes in. I have her through your explanation with the arguments were but what was the argument for antiwomens suffrage . Guest there are several varieties of antisuffragists. The one that comes most easily to mind is men. We think, there is reason that men might not want women to vote. One is that they would have to share power, thats the most basic one. Then theresvote, a path to the electorate and mens power is diluted. That is certainly a political argument. Nervous aboutvery upsetting the political status whether men who were running for office were nervous about having to appeal to women voters. It was a different persona that they might have to project. They were worried about what they look like which they never had to do when they were just appealing to men. Then you have the more interesting antisuffrage and antis who wereon women. The fact that there were organized groups of women that opposed women suffrage was shocking to me when i first encountered it in my research. In they were not as numerous 1920. Back in the late 19th century, you didnt have to have an antiSuffrage Movement because most people were antisuffrage. For a minor fringe group of women. They were considered radical, they were derided as unpatriotic and arranged and deranged. Idea of organizing to oppose suffrage does not really become a reality until around 1911 when the Suffrage Movement begins to get some traction. Even women get worried about this. Why would women oppose their sisters getting the vote . Its a variety of reasons. Sne is many of the women anti are political, cultural religious conservative women. They truly believe that this will upset gender roles. And its going to destroy the American Family women have a sense of equality and theres all kinds of antisuffrage showganda materials that women abandoning their family to work for suffrage and it shows a woman going out of the family home door and leaving dad with screaming babies are having to do the wash on a washboard. They predict the fall of civilization and the idea that this will affect your private life its not just the political issue because this wasnt just a political issue. It really was a questioning of womens rights and womens roles in society. This is what makes a much more complicated issue. If you can say women are equal and they have an equal vote and an equal voice to men, then what does that mean in the home . Concerneds are very that this means that men are going to be emasculated and women are going to become more this was dangerous for the family so they see this as the downfall of civilization and moral society. For those who are religious conservatives, they used the bible. They said its against gods plan. Interpreted made adam to be dominant over eve and to question that by saying women have political equality is to question gods plan and these biblical arguments against the idea of suffrage. Againe that over and over where women say god does not want this and we hear echoes of that today in many debates about social change. Constellation of are veryomen who afraid and very opposed to the idea of women getting the vote and there are some notable intellectuals who are women who are actually against womens suffrage. Host the mid 19 century centerpiece was the seneca full conference in 1848 with three names that everyone knows for books,t from the history you write that these three people had an extraordinary 50 Year Partnership and change the course of our history. Whats important for people to know how the three of them works together to advance rights in our society . Guest youre very right, i would say that they are very important names. I will make one small correction which is often i didnt know this until i delved into it Frederick Douglass is at the seneca falls meeting in 1848. Susan anthony is not. Susan anthony joins the movement a few years later. She is working as a teacher. She is working intemperance and abolition. Those three notables come together through the Abolition Movement. That is an important thing for us to understand that the womens Rights Movement, the Suffrage Movement is a direct outgrowth of the Abolition Movement. As theen we think of four mothers, Susan Anthony, lucy stone, they were abolition workers, very active abolition workers before their suffrage work. Idea of all human beings having the divine spark, having the right of freedom in a democracy and the right of a voice in their government comes out of the central tenet of abolitionism, that no human should be property, no woman should be a slave no human should be a slave. Not to make a direct connection but women had very few rights. Connection that there is something wrong in our society and they band together so you have these women for 20 years working very hard in the Abolition Movement and also beginning to start speaking about womens rights. Douglassthat frederick was at seneca falls and again i did not know this before i started my research was just startling and extraordinary to me. Its no coincidence, he didnt happen to pass by. He lives about 50 miles away in rochester. He was supported by abolitionists, especially abolitionist women. He was publishing the northstar, and sheition newspaper she invited him to come. There is a lament of all the reasons why women are oppressed of thes a direct echo declaration of independence. She uses jeffersons language. And she has resolutions to solve these problems. One of them, the ninth revolution resolution is the idea of the book and its considered so radical and so unattainable that even her fellow reformers who were at the seneca falls meeting say please, dont put that on the table, its really too radical and it will make us seem ridiculous. They ask her to take it off the agenda and she refuses. Frederick douglass stands up and says you must, you must demand this, you must demand the boat. It will not be given to you just as it will not be given to me as a black man unless we are willing to fight for it. Its Frederick Douglass who convinces the other very reluctant participants at seneca falls to sign on to this resolution and approve it. Possibly neverd have heard of seneca falls if it douglassr frederick convincing the others to do this and he called himself a wound womans rights man a womans rights man. He truly is. In my mind, he is one of the great heroes of the story because he believes in universal suffrage so he will be fighting for universal suffrage for all adult citizens. What will happen is that there will be a great disappointment after the civil war and the reconstruction period and the reconstruction amendments, the 14th and 15th amendments and basically congress says, i know you were all expecting to get the vote but the nation cannot handle two big reforms at once. So its either going to be black men get the vote or women get the vote, it cannot be both. Need iteeded more more elemental and because there is horrible violence and lynchings going on so they need the vote. Its a terrible rift in both Frederick Douglass had to tell them that the womans hour has not come. It will come eventually but you will have to wait. Schism thats a takes quite a while to heal. Race is part of this story from the very beginning from the abolitionists to the split in the reconstruction period where women are betrayed so they get very angry. Anthony and stanton say vile racist things in the friendship with douglas is repaired between them, the personal one and he still attends womens rights conventions for the rest of his life. In fact, he dies in 1895 just a few aft just hours after attending a human rights event in washington. The idea that he truly believes in womens rights is borne out and its actually a beautiful story and he maintains that even when he is betrayed himself by the suffragists. Host it seems as though phase andof this, after the 14th 15th amendments were passed, began in the late 1870s, early 1880s. The first legislation went to congress in 1878. What was it that it said . Guest there were a couple of times there were a couple of attempt before that in the house on the senate and those did not go far at all. 1878, stanton and anthony worked with their they getn congress and it actually introduced. It is stalled there for the next 40 years 40 years. Every year the suffragists go up and testify before whatever house or Senate Committee is hearing at that time and they give a well constructed, legal argument and Elizabeth Stanton used to say that she had a great legal mind and she would be giving this testimony and the chairman and the other members of the committee would be eating their lunch, reading the newspaper, clipping their nails, doing anything but listening to the women. She said at some point in her said that she had to restrain herself from throwing her manuscript about their heads that they were not listening. This gets thrown back into the file cabinet every