Anyway you can get clean power onto the grid, we urge you to take advantage of it. Our sense is that it is too restrictive, as far as not allowing new entrants into the industry. Whether using existing Nuclear Plants as clean energy, or existing renewables, that was a point in my opening remarks that electric grants are not going to remain static. It has been getting cleaner, thanks in part to Companies Like jasons, and it is going to keep getting cleaner. We dont want to curtail the potential use there. But more broadly here, i would say that it is a restrictive restriction in the criterion that is simply not necessary and could end up keeping entrants and investment from being made. Its not cost rate. The absolute right. Free, your absolute right. You are absolutely right. She i remember court where summer lee said that we need everything new all the time, and i agree with her and some ways, with that roadmap that we put out, i know that will help to put that together, that is a really great piece of work, and even there, it does note, and caution that policy at the federal level is going to be critical. To help getting this industry up and running. Audience questions, please get ready, because they going to give the mic over to you in just a second. Because i am a contrarian, i will jump in to martys defense here. Additionality is really important because it addresses the consequential thanks from book level of the omissions. You need to think through what is the durability of the system, how can you set rules so that you make sure your capturing otherwise curtailed renewables. How do you set the rules so that existing clean resources can play as well . Youre going to be that for that political durability, we think. It is a place where practicality is needed. What the exact rights approaches, its impossible to say. But we want to make sure that there is additionality so that resources are being backfilled by fossil resources. May be certain carveouts . You need to allow for some level of participation, there have been great ideas in terms of for existing renewables and that type of thing, what does that look like for nuclear and hydrogen. That is a conversation that we have which is very important. I will quickly add, dont be surprised if hydrogen is produced by natural gas, and you start to see that. The innovation is going to continue there as well. And you see that because it is in their interest, and they will continue in their own operations. Alright, lets try the audience now. I know that we have a number of reporters online and here in the room as well. Please feel free to speak up if you like. One question here. Hello. I have been working on hydrogen solutions. My question is on the main focus of a certain kind of hydrogen, because we know that hydrogen has a program that is being encouraged, but it is focusing on a different type of hydrogen. I am wondering what this panel thinks these treasury guidances might actually do to maybe push the Hydrogen Industry towards route hydrogen . Blue hydrogen . I can answer you and define it as well. Its a methane pathway where you capture the carbon and lower the overall emissions. Blue hydrogen is thought to not be able to achieve that top credit, that big prize, because it is upstream natural gas leakage. Methane is a potent Greenhouse Gas and we are looking at the second third and fourth tiers of the credit. We find that those tears are very similar to what on credit in terms of value, known as 45 q. Which lets you get credit for each ton of co2 that you put into the ground. What we believe is something that is potentially path forming, is the fact that 45 q. Is a bit more wellknown and a lot of people who want to go down this pathway might choose to opt for 45 q. As the optimal pathway rather than the more complex 45 b. If we think about the Path Dependence between electrolytics and blue hydrogen, making this over restrictive could tilt the needle towards methane based pathway potentially. That is a big risk that we consider daily when trying to optimize the credit. This is an important point, first of all. Blue hydrogen should be part of the energy mix. And theres hydrogen out there right now, it is just not being used for clean power electrolysis. There is an industry growing to meet this demand. And if we dont move reasonably quickly to offer a different path, we will be looking at a lot of messy performance for the next couple of decades. Is there a great advantage to [indiscernible] extracted from fossil fuels instead of burning them directly . I took Political Science classes, the point that you can use hydrogen with natural gas or you can just use natural gas. Turning natural gas into hydrogen to fulfill a role that natural gas can do itself, its not worth it skipping that step. But there is a lot that you can do to with hydrogen that you cannot do with natural gas. A question from online, what do you think will be the impacts of the treasurys decision . Of the recent white acp proposes to lineup the u. S. And the people systems is because we are going to want to have i think, a single global market. So was alluding to this that the eu is going to be reasonably rigidly precious about its own standards, as any European Institution board. If you want to export american hydrogen, what happens to those standards . If they were able to take a more flexible approach and not deal with additionality or time management, you would still see a market rationale for companies to move towards hourly matching quicker if they want to move to that european market. This will probably draw everybody together, and i just do not think that we were going to see that much export of hydrogen in the first years. Few years. I think is going to be into station without a difference. We hope that it will be Strong Demand in early years. There is interest in building an export market here where whether it is an export of ammonia or what have you. Depending on how credit is how the guidelines come out, it could affect the willingness on the investment side. I will jump in on that. I in arch my inner contrarian coming out. Hydrogen is this interesting market. There is so much of it produced annually and then you percent of it is used by two industries. Ammonia fertilizer production and or chemical refinery. Refining. Both of them have capital cost barriers and contractors to switching over to blue or Green Hydrogen or d carbonized hydrogen of any kind. D carbonized hydrogen of any kind. There are players that will adopt and switch over and we think that there will be a market for a money export and hydrogen exports abroad. It is not going to develop overnight but there is going to be a real market there. To weave in a little recent news, germany recently updated their Hydrogen Plant which envisions importing up to 70 of their in use hydrogen demand. That is a huge Market Opportunity and we want to make sure that the rules of the road here provide the integrity of the molecule which allows access to that market. To add one more point, are we actually going to be transporting Hydrogen Molecules across the seas . Maybe not. But what we probably will transport is the things that those Hydrogen Molecules are used for, clean fuel, steel, or fertilizer. Those are commodities which really do matter and we are going to want to claim that they are cleaned, because we have invested a lot of money in making sure that they are. It is those markets that have this foundational question of is this the cleanest hydrogen in america . Or is this the dirtiest hydrogen in america, a pretty important question to answer and be able to answer on a fundamental basis. When we are thinking about these standards and the messy beginning and then the launch, if we can land on something that is durable in that 20202030 two range or longer, we have a potential to build up an entire industrial trade system based on the carbon accounting standard which can actually build into an international system. That is why it is so important. There is so much to build on top of these questions which makes the state higher than, again, the nearterm watch of the industry which we think is important. Cripes a probably important point to focus on are the commodities produced from in like a probably important focus point are the commodities produced from this. We want to know what the runway looks like goat like. Time for one more question. Christ is said that you are not going to shift hydrogen byte shift, only two places with by ship, only to places with salt caverns. How are you going to get it from the manufacturer to the salt caverns . Pipelines . Pipelines. [indiscernible] there is a company that thinks they will move it by dirigible. Thats not a joke. Theres a bit of a branding issue around that. [laughter] im glad you are raising this because it does not get talked about enough. This is a kind of commodity which will be all over the country and may be all over the world and infrastructure will have to play a part. We find that linear infrastructure such as pipelines and transmissions is tough. Thats one of the reasons why we have to be, i think, soft and careful in how we get things going. Theres going to be a lot of freight that people are going to be appropriately concerned about. Time for just one more. Nice to have you all on the panel, very interesting. I was going to ask the question from a perspective of other electricity consumers on the grid. It sounds like an annual matching regime, you are creating incentives as has been discussed by nathan which have large and flexible loads added to the system and as we know, in a lot of markets, the supply of electricity is increasingly tight during certain time periods times. It seems like these could really be escalated from other consumers. I wonder if anybody has quantified the kind of other retail customer price packs from having an annual versus an hourly matching scheme . I will jump on that, and thats a great question, because there is not a lot of Great Research and data on that question yet. But at the most basic level, travis is correct. If your incentivizing a Hydrogen Production system that is lowtech, has limited ramping capability, and you are incentivizing that producer to run all the time, that is going to have an impact on prices and an impact on grid congestion. How big . We dont know. But if it depends upon how quickly does the industry rampup and how what kind of industry are we creating . There is potential for risk there. There was a study that tried to qualify this, it was early days, tom brown, that study did find. The retail rate of other consumers could increase under an annual matching system and from our partners in the eeo that was one of the reasons why they chose kind of an hourly system to stick with because they thought that rest was significant, especially when there are a lot of other constraints on that grade. It is something to be concerned about. Everybody who cares about equity should care about whether or not we are cost shifting. But we dont understand the magnitude of that concern. It comes back around when we talk about utilizing the existing grid or building new. Where is the permitting process that is going to allow us to do that . Write your member of congress, yeah. We are out of time and i would like to thank our panelists for their time and perspective here on the panel, thank you so much for coming, thank you so much for joining us as well, all of you. This will be archived on our website, you can watch it again and again, and for those of us watching it on cspan, thank you so much. Tonight Music Industry andech Company Executives testify before a tennis judiciary subcommittee on Artificial Intelligence and its impact on inteectual property and copyright protection. Watch at 10 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan now are free mobile video app or online at cspan. Org. American history tv saturdays on cspan two weeks ordering the people and events that tell the american story. At 3 00 p. M. Eastern watch the second part of the Calvin Coolidge centennial Conference Marking the centennial of the 30 president s ascension to the white house and at 9 30 p. M. Eastern on the presidency, pete souza, the former white house photographer for president S Ronald Reagan and barack obama talks about the daytoday workings of the presidency including the history making moments he witnessed. Exploring the american story watch American History tv saturdays on cspan2. Find a full schedule on your Program Guide or watch any time at cspan. Org history. Live sunday on indepth. Bestselling author and historian s. C. Guinn joins book tv. Mr. Gwen has published several books including empire of the summer moon and rebel yell. His latest is about a british blimp that went up in flames in the 1930s killing more people than the hindenburg did. Join the conversation with phone calls, facebook comments, and text messages. Current and retired military officials gave lawmakers their assessment of what went wrong during the u. S. Withdraw from afghanistan in august of 2021. During the operation 13 u. S. Service members were killed at kabul airport. This is about three hours 15 minutes. A subcommittee. I want to begin by recognizing christy champlain. If you would mind standing would love for everyone to see. Motherinlaw, Sergeant Nicole g. Lost at the abbey gate. Alicia lopez. The mother of hunter low pass. Killed in action at the abbey gate. Coral were seeing now. And allen do a little. Parents of Corporal Humberto sanchez, also killed in action. Thank you for joining us and raising patriots, im sorry for your loss. I am never going to recognize for an opening statement. Im not going to begin by belabouring this point. They president s withdraw was a complete and other catastrophe. The images of people hanging off of planes and handing their babies over two airport malls are seared into our country. Collective conscience. Yesterday, every member of this committee and this a reported to require the state departments come up with a plan for reimbursing the numerous outside groups getting involved to rescue americans. From afghanistan. I can guarantee that private citizens by some of those miles across the world to rescue americans that worked alongside america for 20 years was not a product of the state department. Good planning and order. It was the product of chaos and a failure to plan. Witnesses here today that will give specific pictures of what was happening on the ground. That will be a clearer and more accurate than a news report that i have seen. Frankly i believe that is because the white house and his mouthpieces were lying to the American People. As they were narrating what was taking place for the withdrawal of afghanistan. Ive no doubt there i witness testimonies will gentleman straight a clear failure to predict or plan for the worstcase scenario. And we do, when we planned military operations, im grateful to each of you for appearing here today. Mans major jake smith specifically is here in his personal capacity. He is an active Duty Service Members i would ask members of the committee to refrain from engaging in political questions. The purpose of todays hearing is to examine the failure to plan and the major repercussions that it had on diplomatic efforts and National Security. This administration said time and time again that afghanistan was not a war that could be won militarily. That is the administrations words. We only do one diplomatically. If this could only be one diplomatically, there was no other conclusion, then they withdraw was a complete and total loss because that is what we lost all diplomatic options. The literal failure to plan was completely erased the potential for on the ground diplomacy and created a black eye for the United States standing abroad in nashville security. I wrote black eye and my comment when i wrote this. This is not a black guy. Black eyed does not come close to constituting what took place and what it is for america to withdraw from afghanistan. I dont know the appropriate word to say what exactly that is. Black eye is not the right one. In the words of the Administration Spokesperson jennifer psaki, the mouthpiece, the president asked for a review from his National Security team. He asked them not to sugarcoat it. He was provided with a clear assessment about the best pass for. These are the words of jennifer psaki. She said the president was the ultimate decisionmaker. He was the decisionmaker who chose september 11th as the initial drawdown date. He was the decisionmaker which pulls the people with the guns out before the people without the guns. The decisionmaker who collapse the operations and is a guy airport. President joe biden, the ultimate decisionmaker. He decided to make the decision and none of those decisions in that process, they were not made in the doha in agreement. Thats not when they were made. They were made by these ultimate Decision Makers joe biden. Americans ask after they withdraw, how could the intelligence have gotten them so wrong. But i find it to be clear each and every day. That the intelligence did not get as wrong as americans thought. It was the ultimate Decision Maker that was refusing to listen. To the intelligence being given. Again, in the words of a white house spokesperson jennifer psaki, the president believes there is not a military solution. This will require a diplomatic solution. These are the present is clear from the beginning that we anticipate planned to have a diplomatic presence on the grounds. Moving forward. Why then did we see a repeat of saigon with diplomatic personnel being evacuated off of the roof of an embassy . That is exactly what President Biden said would never happen. Because of a failure to plan for mercy. It failure to plan for a situation when things dont go exactly perfectly. Exactly as you plann