Reconvene. Were now back in order. The chair recognizes miss crockett for five minutes. Thank you so much, mister chairman. The problem with going this late in the game is that theres so much we put out there, youre kind of all over the place. Just rock with me for a little bit. First of all, i want to get the elephant out of the room. Just to be clear, you provided deposition testimony and in your deposition, neither one of you ever stated that President Joe Biden interfered with your investigations. Correct . This transcript does not include that. The transcript does not include. Thank you or does it include whether garland interfered with your investigations. Correct . The transcript doesnt say that. The reason i say that is because the insinuation that the committee is trying to make, or at least one side of the committee is trying to make is that for some reason, there was interference. My colleagues continue to make sure that they outline the fact that this investigation started under the trump administration. Thats the reason about who appointed who. At the end of the day, we have no evidence that the president or attorney general of the United States interfered. I also want to make sure that we outline some legal principles since we have so many new found prosecutors today. On this committee. Number one, just to be clear, because you investigate something, it does not necessarily mean that there will be a conviction. Correct . That is correct. In fact, in our criminal Justice System, you are cloaked in a presumption of instant innocence. Thats what happens under the constitution. Weve all got a role to play. A role is investigative, correct . Correct. And you have an a usa who is usually the one who is responsible for taking the evidence. They probably have an investigator in their office. Theres usually an investigator in directly relation with their of is that will review any documentation you provide, sit down and talk to the usas office about recommendation, what the targets will look like, things like that. Is that correct . If thats correct, ive never seen that. Let me be clear, there is a level after you get done with your investigation, and with the u. S. Attorneys office to look at the evidence youve provided. They will make these decisions. Correct . All four assigned attorneys agree with recommending impacts, and misdemeanor tax charges. Im not going to dispute that. The difference is that ive done the defense side of this before. As far as unconcerned, it seems like a sweetheart deal. I have never played anybody to every single count of a federal indictment in the first place, unless they only had the one count. Ive always negotiated, and unlike on the state level, i typically do my negotiations a lot of times before they are even indicted. A lot of, times my clients are handing evidence over, all kinds of things. The thing is, those conversations happen ever taken place with an investigator. It always takes place with the u. S. Attorney. The point is, you dont have the ultimate funding authority. The people that did, they decided to do what they decided to do for whatever reason. Correct . In my experience, ive always been a part of that table, talking to the usa, and then talking about the charging decisions. Its not accurate to say that im not the investigators not involved in that. This time, it is a little different for me. Thats why you thought something was wrong. I want to get to Something Else quickly. I want to talk about who we should be prosecuting. We should be looking at the fact that in 2017, trumps first year in office, he also made six point 5 million from china in tax returns. The china payments arent clear for the returns. The payment were a surprise, and trump is an outspoken critic of the five point 8 million that hunter biden made. The difference is, trump was our president when he made this money from china, where is im sure that you would agree with, meet hunter biden has always been a private citizen. We have got a lot of other stuff. In fact, it is clear that trump never paid more than 750 in taxes for, i want to say, a total of two years of his which is absolutely insane. We also know that it shows the trump claimed large cash donations in security, and reports to the irs didnt verify that. They said that while the trumps facts the irs is not agreed to work on them. That is shameful. In addition to that, we heard testimony earlier that talks about how whether or not you execute a search warrant under section 9 13 point 420 of the doj manual, it specifically states that when theres an attorney as a subject of an investigation, prosecutors are expected to lace the lists and effective law enforcement. Its kind of what they did for trump when they gave him a number of opportunities to turn over the documents, those National Secrets that he kept in the toilet. He chose not to. Thats why hes facing federal charges down in florida. Finally, i want to make sure that we clear up something about the central park five. I dont think my colleagues from the other side of the aisle understand that not only where they found to be not guilty, they were paid 41 million in the 2014 settlement because their civil rights in that lawsuit were violated in addition to that. We know that one of the central park five now serves on city council. So i ask unanimous consent that i would the lady yield a quick question . When you yielded question . You made the argument the trump received 6 million from china or something, and hunter biden received that. Do you know exactly 100 biden did to receive the money from china . Thats kind of a hard time trying to figure out. I know what trumps businesses. Im not saying its right. Around i know it is businesses are. I dont know what the bidens businesses are. You dont know what its not. You dont know what its not either. You have no idea why or why not they receive that money you have no evidence about it. May i submit this for the record as well . I will say that within this article, it specifically says that the force of a number of trump monies it was unclear. They said they did have businesses there. They said that hes open some Bank Accounts in china. They could not find the source of the money that was paid to him from china. The chair recognizes the chairman from kansas for five minutes. Thank you both for being here today. There is information, lets try to lay this out for the American People. The quick answer, how long have each of you worked for the irs. You first. Is it fair to say that you both had successful careers at the irs . You both been recognized for your achievement there . I believe so. Yes, absolutely. Are you overly equal . I am not, now. When ive made an effort to not be overly, like, i made an effort to be part of it. Do either of you have a burning desire . Have you ever had it to be at a congressional hearing . Are you wanting to be on tv . Are you looking for your 15 minutes the same here. I would prefer not to be. Here i had never imagined that this would happen. Here i am. For the american, people why did you step forward because we knew that the application of justice, we heard all the stories about these crimes that are committed, they are horrible. Without the equal application of, justice i dont understand how we move forward. I dont understand how if i dont do what i can to assure that occurs there are 300 million taxpayers out there, they think this hearing is a big deal because theyre during taxes. They see someone who is. And ziegler . Its a matter of accountability. Its simple, its a matter of accountability. We need to hold those accountable, basically for the last five years, they havent been following proper procedure. We with a part of this, there has to be something built in their. This so this doesnt happen to people. Investigators, lets get the facts out. They received Global Payments for companies linked to ukraine, fought with old through companies. Is that correct . That is correct. 17. 3 million. Mr. Shefali. What is a special agent report, its the reports that recommends prosecution for various charges. Each of us have been choosing. Approximately how many of these over your career have you been a part of . Yes, hundreds, hundreds. Did you complete the special agent report for the hunter biden . Case special agent ziegler offered it. I completed the report. When the special report was in the chain of command, just like you have all been involved, with in the air case hundreds of times did you notice anything out there outside of the normal process that you have grown used to . The changing of lead tax attorneys was inappropriate and out of the norm. No, after that, the leadership quickly trumped the council, they concurred with the charges. We sent it for further approval. Everything he said was correct. Now, mr. Shuffle you recommended felony charges. We all know the answer. Was hunter biden charged with felonies . No he, was not. What role did readily will play in the investigation . She was an assistant United States attorney out of the district of delaware. You met with her and her team during the hunter biden case, correct . Thats correct, in your testimony to ways and means can you explain how leslie wolf who was once again overseeing the case out of delaware saying, during the meeting that she did not want to ask about the big guy she stated she didnt want to ask questions about that. Is that statement accurate . I want to remind you that you are under oath. Is that accurate, your testimony. Can you ask that question one more time. She said, leslie will said in a meeting that she did not want to ask about the big guy and stated she didnt want to ask questions about that. So, theres two fold in that there is the line in the email that says ten held by age for the big guy that was something that came up as a part of ours reviewing what we are going to say during that today, and she immediately said no were not going to ask this and then we essentially had to argue or and then it was ultimately that we didnt know it was unknown. I appreciate that. Mr. Chef, what you stated in public interviews that you guys were stopped from taking investigative steps that could have potentially connect the hunter biden case to President Biden. Is that correct. That is correct. I want to summarize this as quickly as i can we have to credible irs investigators confirming that there are millions of dollars and born payments to shell countries to the Biden Administration, we have hunter biden who most of us wouldnt hire to adopt it, receiving these millions of dollars for services that they cannot come forward and tell us about, and the potentially this is linked to President Biden, but we dont know that for a fact, because you are shut down you are not allowed to pursue the investigative angle that you wanted to. This is something we have to get to the bottom of. Its shameful whats happening i want folks to mark my word that we will not be stifled. The committee will not be stifled by the department of justice or anyone in the Biden Administration. We are going to pursue this and get to the bottom of it no matter what. Thank you mister chairman i yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Gomez for five minutes. Thank you so much mister chairman i just want to be clear whistleblower allegations should be taken seriously. I had a whistleblower approach my office from my first term. One of the things that i learned from that is that there is a clear fact based process that needs to be followed to ensure whistleblower investigations are recovered without political interference this is not whats happening here today when this originated, republicans through that process into the gutter. Here is how we there are more than 50 people identified in the ways and Means Committee deposition on the same topic. They were not spoken to they were not interviewed before the republican majority release these allegations to the public. They didnt take the time to check their facts and the republicans even admitted during questioning that they never interviewed or ask questions are sought to ask questions of these individuals and instead republicans took 13 people who they knew to agree to cooperate their claims why would not they and interview all people identified who might have information in this case there are more than 50 people who are not given the opportunity to defend their names. Respond to allegations are give them important context and facts. To the whistleblower transcript contained on authenticated and unverified documents from unknown searches on the internet. The exhibit used by the adjustment from ohio and the early part of the hearing is one of those unverified documents pulled from the internet. They treat it as a smoking gun you can literally find anything on the internet that doesnt make it true and republicans are refused to verify sources they are trying to give from irs files provided by the whistleblower or from some trusted source but in fact they are not. These documents are an authenticated and we dont even know their real source. What kind of basis is this for a serious investigation. Three, the majority relief transcript with all these errors i cited is before verifying these allegations. They put the car before the horse theyre trying to speak to dozens of valuable witnesses. Refusing to verify the information this whole process and its credibility of the window. Additionally, this process has been taken in by the fact that one of these whistleblowers attorneys has raised a standstill contribution to the republican chairman of ways and means as recently as february of this year and one of these whistleblowers they didnt even come voluntarily, they were none of this inspires confidence in my colleagues are in the process that has been taken. If my colleagues were serious about these allegations, they would have gone through the proper steps to ensure this investigation was done correctly, but they didnt. They rather drag this investigation and this committee into the gutter. And that was approved by the gentlewoman from georgia. If the gutter is where they shoot the live, then they drag us all down there with them. I dont want any part of it. I ask for the consent to submit for the record a letter from their ways and means Ranking Member to take and property of this investigation. Without objection, we with, that id like to yield my remaining time to mr. Goldman from new york. Thank you mr. Gomez, the gentleman, i want to return to the Washington Post october 6th article. I would ask unanimous consent to enter it in the record. And your testimony, mr. Shabbily, before the ways and Means Committee, you stated, quote, there was a leak. It appeared to come from the agents level who was critical of the prosecutors for not charging the case. What you testified earlier was different. Which one do you stand by today . Im sorry, can you repeat that. There was a leak and appeared to come from the agents level who was critical of the prosecutors for not to charging the case. It appears because it came from the agent level. The source was a source familiar with the topic. Okay, it seems to be a distinction. And then you understand that obviously the grandeur 80 information is a felony, right . And best a gate of information and how multi would be a felony. So, would you agree that there would be some skepticism from any prosecutors about which of the agents may be the source of the leak . The time has retired, be feel free to answer the question. Serving multiple leaks of the investigation and the one on december 8th or ninth of 2020, it appeared to have come from someone, as leslie will stated i was asking about october 6th. So, anyone suspicion, right . The agent level. Thats what you said. Gentlemen, the time is expired. Youre the next question or after mr. Powell from texas for five minutes. Thank you, mister chairman. Were talking about obfuscating diverting and distracting. A whole lot of word bombs from the other side of the aisle. It makes no sense to what were here for today. You hear a lot of trump, trump, trump, giuliani, giuliani. I want to thank both the witnesses for being here. Its established that youre very credible and experienced. Your subject Matter Experts at what you do. You let a team of 12 elite agents in this investigation. How long are you investigating the hunter and biden investigation, how long are you doing it for . I started in january of 2020, 2 to 3 years. You both should be aware that one of Hunter Bidens lawyers have accused me of having access to crime. , mr. Shepley, are you a political actor . I am not. Mr. Ziglar, are you part of the Model Movement . I am not. Okay, thank. You i have to ask you a direct question. Its an important one. Are you too out to get hunter biden, are you out to get its all about justice here. And thats why a plea agreement, people ask me to come for clean agreements its outside my. Control justice where you want to get hunter . Justice, rather bombastically claimed when you are speaking earlier that this is all, and quote, normal stuff. Theres no evidence that hunter biden received preferential treatment. So, mr. Ziegler, do you agree with the statements . Normal staff, nothing out of the ordinary, and then hunter biden didnt receive any preferential treatment. Based on my transcripts, i would believe that answer, that question would be incorrect. Would you say that you vehemently disagree with those statements . I dont think it changes my perspective of it. All i can say is that we came for with the information, not following the investigative steps. It was out of the ordinary. Okay. Do you agree with those statements . Yes, this is at the. Ordinary when you read your transcribed interviews which are pretty massive and a vote of itself, its clear that the levels of interference and roadblocks at the doj and other federal governments and personnel put in front of you was astounding if not unprecedented. I was really shocked to see how a u. S. Attorney stonewalled and scuttle the investigation. Go back, december of 2020, the Prosecutorial Team is meeting to discuss the next steps. Hunter biden has received millions of dollars and foreign payment. One of his Shell Companies. To this day, no one can tell whatever did other than having a bunch of money. So, nobody knows what services the companys ever provided. Its december 2020. Hunter is vacating the offices. Hes moving those documents to a storage unit in northern virginia. Mr. Shepley, were you interested in the wet some of those documents might reveal . Yes, we were. Maybe i