Pleasure to be seated up here with this group of senators. Not only from, two from the senate forms relations committee, but also a Bipartisan Group. As joe and i told us, a couple of days ago on stage, the Asset Security group was set up for bipartisanship. Its nice to have a Bipartisan Group up here. I brought my pen just in case. Senator coons, you try to warn me you would try to scare me on stage, if anything breaks out, i am armed. Let me start with you. You are the Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign affairs, Foreign Relations committee. A job that the former delaware senator, who was now on the other end of pennsylvania, used to have. I want to start with you and talk about something that was discussed with secretary blinken, which is the counteroffensive. By way of context, senator risch was one of the most outspoken senators in advocating for not only arming ukrainians but some of the weapons that are produced , not only have an effect but have produced controversies. You are a strong advocate on munitions by way of context i want to put that out there. There does seem to be a growing voice in washington you will be able to see the great animosity we have in the u. S. State senate amongst the parties and how we dont get along and fight a lot. So that will be on clear display, i think, when we are done. Look, on Foreign Relations, im also the most republican on the foreign intelligence committee. Those two committees are probably the least of the partisan things that i do, although i am also, unfortunately on the fx committee which is nonpartisan. I have a thousand things i wanted to say after listening to tony. Lets focus on the ukrainian matter. Most americans dont understand. I have issues in my own state. People say ukraine, i cant find ukraine on the map backup. Very briefly for a bit of history. Ronald reagan spent eight years trying to bring down the soviet union. He was successful. He brought it down. All those countries got their independence and freedom, most of them took it. When it came apart, four countries came out of the soviet union, Nuclear Armed. One was russia, one was belarus, kazakhstan, the fourth was ukraine. Ata that moment, ukraine was the third at that moment ukraine was the Third Largest new leader Nuclear Power and the planet. Its always been the policy. It is a great policy, as few countries as possible have Nuclear Weapons. What do we do . We sat down with the ukrainians on december 5, 1994 in budapest. We said, look, you guys should not have Nuclear Weapons. Why dont you give up your Nuclear Weapons . We cant do that, we are on the border of russia, we are in a bad neighborhood. We said, dont worry, we will defend you. We put it in writing. You know what ukrainians did . They gave up their Nuclear Weapons. So, here we are today, we have not only a moral obligation to do this but a legal obligation, for all you lawyers in the room, you note a contract is. Number one, it is in writing. When one party asks another to do something, they do it in exchange for consideration. There is that reason. Its the right thing to do, thats another reason. One of the most Important Reasons is if you think xi is not watching every single thing that goes on, as far as our commitment to see this thing through, you are badly mistaken. He is watching this. I have reason to believe that for a fact. A very, very closely, watching every utterance coming out of the u. S. Congress and the United Administration and out of the American People, as to what kind of stomach theyve got to see this thing through, sen. Risch , give them everything that shoots other than Nuclear Weapons. Give them clusters, give them everything short of Nuclear Weapons. Give them f16s. You remember, an uptick in both vietnam and korea, the russians gave meds to our opponents there and flew against us. It is time to return the fire favor. I am tired of hearing about escalation. If you do not escalate, you are going to lose. I want Vladimir Putin to worry about what will cause us to escalate instead of us wringing our hands. Everything i said we should have done at the beginning, they have done now. I wish it was a year ago. That was an incredible but i do not think you answer my question. Sen. Risch i am a politician. If you were to look at a counteroffensive. Sen. Risch let me talk about that. You are getting this mostly from people who are not really supporting this thing anyway. If you watch what they are doing they are doing this careful. This is not a thing that happened like when the russians when they marched on kyiv. That is not what is happening with the ukrainians. They do not have the manpower that russia has to be able to throw it all at one place at one time. This is zelenskyys war. We ought not to be looking over his shoulder particularly if we are not trained in battlefield techniques. Senator cornyn, i have heard you say this. I cannot find ukraine on the map, what do we do there . You are forced to make the argument. It is possible but counteroffensive does not go as well as we hoped. They are clearly targeting the electricity grid. Are you concerned that the American People may begin to question why we are doing this, that this is going badly. Sen. Cornyn this always happens in military conflicts as it goes on longer than Public Opinion wants, people become fatigued and they say we have other parties in the United States. I thought jim made an eloquent argument for why this is in americas best interests. My constituents get it. They may not be able to pick out ukraine on the map. Remember the old Ellen Jackson song, i do not know the difference between iraq and iran. It is our job to explain why this is in americas best interests. Let me push you a bit on this. You have been almost uniquely a republican senator who has stood up and spoken out. I think you said i am looking for a reagan republican to be the president of the United States. Are you at all concerned that they are undermining the attempt you are making . Sen. Cornyn i am proud to be part of the coalition of the rational. [applause] sen. Cornyn this is america. We have these debates, but the important thing is we have at least two sides to the argument. That we not abdicate our responsibility and leave a vacuum that is filled with people who were misguided or have convictions i disagree with. That is one of the great privileges of being in the senate. But it is also a tremendous responsibility to push back where you think these arguments are misguided. Senator kunz, same topic. You are in many ways an old friend of President Biden. I know he is concerned about maintaining Political Support for the war effort. Sen. Coons thank you for the opportunity to be here with two great colleagues. Part of what makes service in the senate rewarding is the chance to work so closely with folks. We disagree sometimes. We have differences of opinion. We also served while together on Foreign Relations. We are cochairs of the Law Enforcement caucus. We have a wide range of bills we have introduced together. We need strong bipartisan voices. One of the facts i am trying to get out to the American People and to my constituents after a recent bipartisan trip to meet with you and leaders is all the rest of nato has delivered a little more than 72 billion in direct support. We have delivered about 77 billion in support. Our European Partners and allies are pulling their weight. 47 countries are supporting ukraine. This is not an effort the United States is burring alone. When john is able to challenge others in his party, that really helps sustain this. But we are going to have to deliver another supplemental appropriation to sustain the war effort. We need the ukrainians to keep pushing. I support the latest delivery of weapons and wish some of them had gotten there earlier. This is the strongest moment for nato in 75 years in some ways. The best chapter of President Bidens leadership and a real demonstration of bipartisanship in the senate. Yes, there were some voices at the merchan in both parties. Every foreign minister and head of state worries about the sustainability of american support. If europe keeps pulling their weight, we will too. I am also focus on the global south and the ways in which lots of other countries do not see the war in ukraine the way we do and we need to hear and respect their concerns and engage. We are losing some of our currency and reputation with critical developing countries that do not see this the same way we do. In the bill that has just come out of the appropriations committee, we are putting more money into pushing back on this information, into investing into Sustainable Development and making sure we are good partners in the global south. Sen. Risch for those of you in this room, when people say we should not be in ukraine, look, i respect dissent. I really do. But the question i always ask is, how do we do that . What do we tell our friends and what do we tell our enemies that when the United States says we will defend you, what does that mean . How are you going to explain an extrication from this . You may not like it, but lets put pull the wagon together. You mentioned in your opening remarks that very point. You imply that you have some can you share with us anything you have gleaned from what xi jinping has learned . Sen. Risch nothing. Let me tell everybody here. We have 18 intelligence agencies. They get a lot of heat. They do a really good job. Whenever they are in the news, it is because something fell through the cracks, but we have countries that are hard targets, not so hard targets. These people gather information. We could not do our job without the kind of information they give us. Sen. Cornyn the lesson we learned time and again is things do not happen without American Leadership. If america was not accepting the responsibility to lead this coalition and to see nato transformed. This has been a huge mistake by Vladimir Putin. This would not happen, you will not see finland and sweden as part of nato. I just think American Leadership once again is indispensable. Can i put you on this again . The purpose of nato is to keep the americans in, the russians out and the germans down. As you say, the americans are in. There was the president a few years ago who was not quite as enthusiastic about nato. Are you worried at this point that they may not be sustainable and our allies will begin to question whether that is a permanent thing. Sen. Cornyn Louis Brandeis said the best thing to do with that information is get more information. We have to continue to engage and make the case. We work for the American People. If i cannot make the case to them, shame on me. That is a failure of mine. But it is our responsibility to make the argument and we should not be disturbed when people disagree. This is america. I want to stick with ukraine. You mentioned the global south. We did have three weeks ago Prime Minister modi in the white house. This is the competition for the global south that they have not been on our side on ukraine. She was showered with all the diplomatic niceties and this is a Prime Minister who has in many ways greeted democratic principles and values in india. Are you at all concerned that in the effort to win the battle of the global south that we are sometimes putting our principles aside to make sure they are on our side saying ukraine and china . Sen. Coons the challenge of Global Leadership is to have and hold to core values, particularly human rights. Despite our own real domestic challenges around this. And to engage with brazil, pakistan, countries in southeast asia. And recognize their challenges and privately, criticize and challenge each other. But frankly, we are also in a period of some needed humility. The president of kenya reached out to me after january 6 to say we would be happy to offer you election observers. I simply had to say thank you, i appreciate the offer. The number of conversations i had with leaders of other countries after january 6 where they looked at us and said, it is not so easy, is it . A little bit of humility is called for. Democracy is hard. Here and each other, educating each other. Finding a path forward that we invigorates our democracy is the best response to that, not simply pounding on other countries. And providing an open hand and a credible alternative. That same president of kenya, we had an argument about why he was thinking chinese money to build a railway. There really was not a comparable offer on the table. If we do not show up and contest the narrative of russia and china and provide a real partner in combating climate change, and growing sustainable crops and helping with energy, we cannot be surprised when we are not heard. Both secretary blinken and President Biden himself on the campaign trail talked about putting human rights back on the center of foreign policy. There is long been in the Democratic Party a debate. I think it is fair to say in the end obama administration, there is a was not a huge amount of that. Where would you fall in the spectrum . Or am i making a false dichotomy here . Sen. Coons we hold events to highlight the critical human rights challenges that communities and countries face. We have to continue to strike a balance between our National Interests and human rights. I do not think we can have a successful Security Policy that says human rights is the only thing we care about and we are going to pursue that even at the harm of our own people. We have to make complex and difficult arrangements around the world in order to protect the American People. Fair enough. Seizing russian assets as a way to rebuild ukraine. Let me be a contrary and on this one. Contrarian on this one. There is a history of using reparations to rebuild. That was germany. That did not end up so well. We will at some point come Vladimir Putin will leave. Do seizing their assets and forcing them to use those assets to rebuild force a situation . Sen. Risch this war is over. As far as who was lost, russia has lost. Their objective was to occupy that country. They are never going to occupy that country. They are fighting with sticks and stones in the streets. So that is over. The question is how does the shooting stopped . I cannot make a prediction of what happens there except history tells us they get exhausted. Neither side is close to that point. Zelenskyy will not give up a square inch. That is his judgment to make, not ours. It is their country. When this thing is over, this is a unique situation, it is not like other wars. There is not going to be a reconciliation with what the russians have done in that country, with the rape, kidnappings, torture, this is not going to go away. What we need is an International Court to do real justice. [applause] sen. Risch it is going to take a lot of money to rebuild ukraine. As a side note, the chinese are licking their chops. There is going to be cash flow. Russia has two paid the price for this. Russia has to pay the price for this. The ukrainians believe this is the russians peoples war. They will insist russian people paid the price for this. They cannot do the whole thing. This is going to be different than other. Sen. Coons i saw a Bipartisan Group of senators traveled to the hague, and signed into law a change in our lot to allow for us to support the icc and engage in delivering some accountability for the conduct of russia in this conflict. I am trying to think of a couple of examples. The good friday agreement. Peace agreements where we had to sit down with people we detest. Wars end because you have to have peace with people you detest sometimes. Russia is not going to disappear. Some would argue part of the problem we went through in 1989 was we were not serious and trying to integrate russia. I would just say does anyone have a thought about a way that we can integrate russia in a postputin environment without punishing them that may not allow us [indiscernible] or am i just barking up the wrong tree . Sen. Cornyn yes, your barking up the wrong tree. Sen. Risch i do not think the examples you have given her comparable. This is bad. It will be generations before the free world trusts brush again. Russia again. We cannot do business with them. The europeans will tell you they tied into all of their energy. All of us were concerned about what what happens on that front. The europeans and the world have really extricated them from that and that is never going back again. I want to get to china before we run out of time. Sen. Cornyn i do not think we will welcome russia into the family of nations. But it is interesting to me from a larger perspective that we decided that we needed to contain russia. George keenan, the author of the containment theory, said we cannot change the russian communist party, so we need to contain them. Our approach to china was exactly the opposite. We naively assumed that if they became part of the wto and opene