What did they hire you to do . Guest it was sort of a twopart project. The original request was for me to look evidence of voter fraud in the swing states in the 2020 election. Deceased voters and for voters who voted twice, once in a swing state and once in another state. Very quickly in a matter of a day or two after my contract was signed, the campaign attorneys were doing their Due Diligence asked me to begin evaluating names of voter fraud ever coming into the campaign from everywhere, from all over the country, from amateurs looking at data to lawyers whose names we dont recognize making claims of fraud. In the campaign asked me to evaluate them and tell them if they were correct or not, and in every circumstance they were false. Host you right in the book the contract was signed on november 5, 2020. I had no idea then have finding so little would lead to so much. You sign a contract with the Trump Campaign on that day, november 5, 2020. Them . Guest about 35 days, some of the craziest days ive had. Host in 35 days, did you have as to all the data that you needed access to to determine whether or not there is fraud . Guest its a very nuanced answer that im going to give you. The answ is i had access to all of the data that was available at that time. So i had full access to the data that the rnc had available. What is very interesting about voter data is that no state makes available to anybody who voted in person inside that 30, 35 day window. You get all the information that you can process, but for some reason, the interest in person both are not there. That is a large chunk of the votes that wasnt available, however all of that information is made available usuallyelectie data wasnt available to me at that time, because nobody has gone through it since and determined now, there was actually a bunch of fraud, that is not an impactful, meaningful problem that i had and i was host well then explain how you could go back to the Trump Campaign and say there is no ud in those 35 days. Guest so i didnt say there was no voter fraud. I told him there wasnt enough voter fraud to matter, and that is an important distinction. We did find some dead voters. But e ers were far less than the thousands, many thousands that were necessary in the swing states. Discussed the challenges with having access to some data and not having access to other data. I can pretty confidently say that the trump attorneys that i reported to specifically alex cannon who was my main contact had a lot of confidence in the work that i was doing and the fact that i wa being as thorough as i was and i was probably numbing his brain with how much information i was educating him aboutata practices that i was going through. I know he trusted my result and he communicated very thoroughly to mark meadows at the end of the day that hard at not only looking for fraud but evaluating everyone out the claims of fraud and we found nothing that rose to the level of changing the Election Results that would survive legal scrutiny in court. Host you then write tback aftes and do a more thorough look at the data after moore became available . Guest i didnt personally go back and take a look at it. All the data is available at this point now. For all of■ the people who had such a strong interest, there were many eyes that looked at the state afterthefact and nobody has gone through the data make any determination that contradicts what i have done within 30 days. Another important thing to remember you cant file a claim in court based on data that doesnt exist. You can only work with what is out there right now. Having gone through all of those, my job was to find it. If there were massive voter fraud, i would be the guy to do it. It is a pretty extraordinary thing to have a finding like that. It would ruin my personal and professional reputation if i delivered results i would be humiliated within court. A sentence in the contract that said im going to live are findings that will stand up in court. And unfortunately there was just nothing that rose to that. Host how did he find you . Guest i dont know. In those 35 days there was no time to talk about that sort of thing. They were actionpacked from the morning to sometimes late night. Host what is a data specialist . Guest i own a Software Engineering company that specializes in l i participated in an architect of the first online debit card system for food stamps for the state of texas. We do a lot of work in the gaming industry. Lots of transactions and lots of data, that is where i do a lot of my work. Investigating fraud is something ive always enjoyed doing and i think it is important to do. We look at foodstamp frau host who did you talk to from the Trump Campaign and who did you not talk to . Guest the simple answer to that is almost all of my communications were with alex cannon. As we set up the framework for how i was going to do this■eme o keep my identity and my companys identity closely held. He didnt want the white house to know who is doing the work because he wanted us to be unbiased, and he wanted us to be shielded from political pressure. He wanted us tonsisting on a cen set of results because that is not what works for a successful court case. From anyone in the campaign, it was him. Host hosmmunication go from ale . Who did you talk to . Guest at the time, i had no idea. With the january 6 transcripts, i learned that obviously he was talking to other upperlevel campaign attorneys and most notably, the fact that he that the campaign was unable to find any fraud that mattered, they could have changed the election result. Host , that information went to . Guest after everything in these reports that mark meadows told investigators that he took that information into the oval office. Host who did you not talk to . Guest really just about everybody else. Alex cannonfore i would go to my wife in the morning i was talking to alex cannon and pretty much the last conversation i had during the day. Host what about Rudy Giuliani and other lawyers . Guest i saw claims that i can confidently say came Sidney Powell. She was hoping to push a mathematical theory to prove voter fraud, and that was wrong. I saw a claim that life and able to piece together and pretty sure came from john eastman with 16,002 pickett vn da. This is a. All the numbers were hyperinflated because the people who did the analysis didnt understand what they were looking at and they didnt understand how to make your book, disproven. It is your turn to ask questions and have ken block respond. He is our guest this morning. Before we get to calls, which states did you focus on in this book . Guest georgia, arizona, nevada, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. Host in Point Pleasant beach, good morning to you. Caller i have seen you on tv. There is nothing you can say about the seven states you are talking about, they changed their laws unconstitutionally. Rudy giuliani had affidavits from polll workers and the juds didnt take them up, they said they lacked standing. You keep cutting the same foods, to get the same number. They were questioning the validity of the votes. That is what happened. Host please hang on the line and listen to the response. Guest this is an important point. My work was all tasked specifically to creating finding the fraud that would survive legal scrutiny. When you bring it to court and the Defense Attorneys are going to come at you with everything they have two show you messed up, that you were wrong, it is a very high bar. A light of what you not data e, especially the Rudy Giuliani thing. It is hearsay evidence and hearsay evidence is almost never evidence you can bring to court successfully, especially when you want to overturn an election result. As far as the cost is not treating the laws, there have been court cases where that was not determined to be a problem. I get it and understand it is upsetting and many people wanted the results to be different. My role was very narrow and very specific to deliver to the campaign evidence that could work that could overturn the election and it wasnt there. Host gordon in wyoming. Go ahead. Caller good morning. Washington journal has to be required viewing for all three branches of government. When they take their oath, they have swear to watch washington journal every morning. I am 78 years old. Trump and biden are geezers, they need to step aside. I would like to see Vice President harris go against liz cheney. Younger people, please. ■ subject, building a peer in gaza host can you stick to the topic here . Do you have a question or comment about ken blocks book . Caller i am sure trump lost the election for goodnesss sake. That is all i have got. Ho we will move on to randy in west virginia. Hi, randy. Caller how are you doing . Can you ask how Many Democrats [indiscernible] host we will take that. Guest i am going to expand a little bit because we, we found a couple hundred fraudulent votes. We found some diseased votes, a couple hundred get■m votes. If i expand it a little bit and include information from 2016 where he identified aa crush across 24 states how much data we looked at, we found 8000 confirmed duplicate votes with the most number in florida. Not enough to change any result here. When you look at the registrations and fault and it is 5050. It is not all democrats, not all republans. People are voting twice, it is usually a crime of privilege. Someone who owns two homes figures there is not a lotfharmr franchise twice even though it is highly illegal. It is only recently with t compe only involved only been involved since 2008 it is serious way we have been able to identify this activity and hopefully eliminate it. Host explain highly illegal. If you get caught and convicted guest is a felony with up to five years in jail and is 75,000 a 75,000 fine. Caller my concern is not who won and who lost but undermining the integrity of the election by introducing mailin ballot without validation. I spent my career as a scientist in process validation mostly with overthecounter drugs. We should have separated the it was clearly outside of the states constitutional guidelines and that is serious. The amicus brief that was rude and was not taken up by the Supreme Court that was written was not taken up by the Supreme Court. In alameda county, there were 113,000 ballots that were not accurate tgo the addresses. There were all kinds of other things. What should have we should have taken the mass mail ballots and saithe system wont be robust and therefore we are going to count them separately. You have to have a copy of your id attached. We will separately id, attached to the envelope and then we can do any audit. This last election was not a robust validation for an election. Host he line and listen to the results. Guest i think you are right when it comes to rehabilitation we currently have in place for mail ballots in many places in the country. We talked about electionone of s every state does it differently and many times many counties within the same state do the same thing with thethat incod integrity are two different things. I have a lot of things in my book that we should do to impre. In other a lot of congressmen and commerce women that watch this show and im begging you to consider a nonpartisan effort to evaluate how we operelections ae necessary changes. I dont demonize mail signaturee if you are who you say you are when you cast a vote by mail, that is a real challenge. It is century old technology. You can do better than what we are doing right now and i have many suggestions. I agree with you, we need to do better than we are doing right now. Host you look at pennsylvania and the claim o dead voters, u find . Guest i predicted a couple of dead folks and it pennsylvania before they occurred. What is interesting about this is a was involved inof the regin pennsylvania to see who is deceased. I found a couple who had died yearslz before september 2020 wn they had brandnew restrictions. I said you watch this will be fraud. That warning made its way to a lawsuit making its way to Pennsylvanias Court and sure enough on election day, some of those deceased voters cast votes. The votes counted but after the fact, the person who created and there were different people for each foot involved they arrested those people who made those fraudulent votes and they prosecuted and got convictionse. What is interesting and indicates of pennsylvania, the cases were both republicans who votes on behalf of film members. Host do we know who they voted for . Guest yes. The person who committed the fraud admitted they were republicans and their cast the fraudulent votes for President Trump. What is important about this whole concept of contesting an election based on identifying fraudulent votes is what i hope most of your viewers understand is when you cast a vote, who you vote for is not disclosed. They cannot tie your particular ballot back to you once you cast your vote. Lets imagine i found 15,000 fraudulent votes in georgia. Had i found those votes, and confident no court of law would have looked at those and made a determination that the election should have been overturned. What nobody could claim his at those apartment votes worked against President Trumps interests. Those cant be shown to have harmed the campaign because you dont know who they were cast for. That is an important point. For all these issues that people around fraud, without being able to show harm in those votes, yog to get an election overturned. Host speaking of pennsylvania and the claim by some Trump Lawyers that there were dead voters there, you found what . Guest i cannot tell you exactly, we found■n■c 10 may ben the high end . I dont think a lot of them were prosecuted. There were only a handful im aware of, two or three, that resulted in convictions. The Trump Campaign for the fraud i did find as bes i know, they did not expose those results to enforcement. Host dan, sioux falls, south dakota. Your turn. Caller my question is trump lost the popular vote by like 8 million and the Electoral College by like 50 literal votes. We have to go to gore versus george w. Bush where we had the hanging chads. You try to uncover the fraud and that it didnt come out where it would affect the election. Also have to go back in that timeframe, that was during covid. There were a lot more mail in ballots at that time. 2024 will be a lot less mail in ballots and more in person vong. I had a guy from mississippi come where i work and is out the are you going to make sure these elections are valid . I said where i vote in my little elementary school, you have to have your id, they checked it and double check it with the role check it and double check it with the role. My question ist trump and the republicans accept the fact that they lost . Al gore had to do it when george w. Bush even though he got screwed in that election. Host lets take your question. Caller why dont think why dont you think trump will accept this . Guest it is a good question. I dont have any answer whatsoever. There is probably a political answer to it. My role is focused in on the data so i want to dive into the political peace. Run for governor twice in rhode island, i lost a statewide primary by 3000 votes and it hurt to concede that, i did n want to concede that. It was an ugly race, it was personal, but i did. That is what democracy looks like. I hope as we move forward out of 2020 that we can get our elections back to a more civil anresponsible way of conducting ourselves and dealing with the impact of losing. Host . Guest i am a registered republican. Host did you run as a republican . Guest i started a centrist party in rhode island in 2009 and after needing to challenge the state Ballot Access laws, letting the party, we needed somebody to run for governor who got at least 5 of the votes and i got i realized i was pretty good at campaigning and i had a lot of ideas i wanted to implement. In 2010 and 2014 that working the fourth part■to work. It was too hard to get traction. People cannot put their heads around what he but democrat or republican. I like to see change. Rhode island is a heavily democratic state. You cannot affect change from inside the democratic machinery, you have to do it from outside of the machinery and that is why i am a republican. Host you did look at the counties and how the former president won small counties across the country. Tell us what the data showed you. Guest this is crucially important for people to understand because this gets right to the point of helping to inform everybody why trump lost. When you look at the swing states, this is a pattern that existed across the country, whether a red state or blue state, a red county way blue county, and what i mean by red or is trump won them in 2016 and 2020. That is read in my opinion. If a democrat won in 2020, that is blue. When you divide things up that way, what you end up with is across the board trump in 2020 relative to 2016 did lesshe boae reddest of red states. He did about 2. 5 percent less well in 2020 that he did in 2016. The narrative of voter fraud, county in the reddest state that you see this particular thing happened . That is not voter fraud. I am going to tell you what it is. Trump has made no secret he has no love for centristhe told thed they did. That is worth that to. 5 is. T 2. 5 is. Trumps authored a campaig interviewed 3000 people, he documented this exact same problem. He is losing republican support. Those republicans he is losing were the ones in the middle. The other piece of this in the middle, in the forward to my book, secretary raffens, bid to fight almost 30,000 republican primary voters in 2020 in the primary but did not vote in the general election. That is two to three times trumps margin of loss. 00 votes in georgia were cast in 2020 by voters who voted for a to get republicans, congressional races and other races, but they left the president ial pick blank or they voted for biden. This is loss of moderate republican support. It remains a problem today. I think trumps messaging is not opening up the ability for moderate republicans to come back into the fold. I wonder if he can change his messaging because without that support, i dont think maga is enough to win a natlelection. Host are you saying the president s pollster knew the outcome before the election was called . Guest i think he could read the tea leaves which is different from knowing withertainty the election result is working against trump. What is important with the exit poll is headed by the loss of it is such a dramatic