Them in places in the country where they would be much less likely to be engaged, but if they were engaged there were not only have the right to defend themselves, my themselves my presumption would be re would assist in. Is that a fair estimate . That is my feeling. It is what i said. I think we have an obligation to do so. I do not expect that occasions arise anytime soon. To get to the chairmans. And the very first vetting the thing, mr. Chairman that made the number so small, and i said the i said the number 60 and can look at your faces. The same reaction i do. Why is that number so small. The reason for that has to do with the criteria we applied. Some of this is the law to these recruits. We do counterintelligence screening. We make sure that for example they arent going to pose a green on blue threat to the trainers that they dont have any history of atrocities. These are all things that are required of us. Theyre willing to engage in the campaign in a way that is compliant with the law of armed conflict. All of this is legal and principled policy of the us as far as fighters are concerned. That is why 60 of them got out the other end. Now generally got a he has 7000 more and expects that we will do better as we get better and that number will get larger over time as he learns more to get to the chairmans chairmans earlier. About the groups that are willing to cooperate. But they when we do get them they will deserve our support, and we will give our support to them. It will take some time to get the numbers up to the. Where they can have an effect. Thank you. I i should. Out what we are talking about fighting, while these numbers are small, i need to. Out that there are other capable Ground Forces fighting both the regime and iso some of which we can and do support with airstrikes and so forth. But we would like to see more and are trying to get better at training them. A number 60 is is as you all recognize not an impressive number. Thank you. Senator sessions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary this is a tough job you have undertaken. Dont blame me. You asked for the job but im not sure you asked for it. At any rate senator mccains opening comment is exceedingly important. To achieve what we are here for the whole purpose of this hearing is how to confront and stop isys and boulevard. We wont talk about that. Not all these other strategies. We need a strategy on this problem. And i am deeply disappointed i dont see i dont see the confidence in your testimony or general dempseys testimony. I believe we are carrying out a strategy that the president has and i dont believe it has sufficient respect for the use of military force necessary to be successful. I hate to be a critic about this. This is important. Sen. Mccain mourned senator mccain mourned in 2011 that we should not pull out all our troops and we needed jermaine engaged in that country, and he is also warned you if we do it in afghanistan the same thing is liable to happen both of which would be tragedies of monumental proportions considering how much we have invested. So i am not happy about this i think delusion is a word that is to accurate. I just want to say that. And. And i hope we will get into more details about what you plan to do to reverse this action. At at some time the president is going to have to change his mind. Cannot just function based upon a Campaign Promise reality is different. Would you like me to address that . A very fair question. Let me just go back to the issue of the strategy and then Say Something about afghanistan. The strategy is for defeating isys on the ground to train and then enable local forces. That takes time. I am aware of that. That. General dempsey was training the iraqi forces a years ago i visited him. That was his primary responsibility. We havent training them for nearly a decade. That is not the problem. I think the problem is confidence within the Iraqi Government and the iraqi soldiers that they will be supported and will be victorious. Victorious. They have that confidence you would get more recruits. I agree i agree that that is what was lacking. You are absolutely right. You just said the strategy i believe you use the word strategy to support capable and motivated Ground Forces where we find them. I think general stuart a few months ago testified the new intelligence had who was there led them the forces which ended around. You remember that effort. He said when pressed i felt that he was reluctant because it was not administration policy, policy, but he acknowledged when you have embedded soldiers forward observers United States forces embedded with troops moving on the, situations that those iraqi troops will perform better. Do you agree . I agree that there are points on the battlefield where the presence of forward of jerk too far forward observers would make them more capable clicks so, our strategy now does it remain that we will not do that . I can tell you that i am not recommended it. I have not recommended it senator. You can explain you can explain why if you would like. I would like to know. Lets take the issue of air power because it seems to be the most prominent. A similar time in the afghanistan conflict in 2012 number of aircraft the number of aircraft that returned with ordinance because there were not targets available was 83 percent. 65 percent in iraq right now the j. The j tag in the special force observers are not a Silver Bullet. A Silver Bullet is getting the iraqis to fight. I totally agree with that i just believe that we have a few forces thousand forces in mosul it never would have fallen. Now our policy is to try to take back this territory and what is the reluctance . What is the reluctance to ease our to leave our special forces here . This is what bothers me. I understand the problem and syria and i am dubious about what we have to do. We we probably should not have involve ourselves in libya, but we committed our nation in iraq general. We have been deeply committed for over a decade. Is it now our policy that you are refusing to even allow special forces to the embedded onto special forces with 600 iraqi troops in a battalion . You are rejecting that idea . What i have recommended is that if we find a unit which is led and is responsive as often submission where we can enable them or increase their likelihood of success i will make a recommendation. To restore or to put embedded advisers and on the habitual basis the environment is just not simply set to do that. By the way, it is not reluctance. Reluctance. We have 1600 pilots flying over iraq and syria today. 3500. 3500 boots on the ground doing training advise and assist. We had a few advisors. You are saying that would not make a positive impact on their morale and capability . I am saying that for a brief temporal tactical gain we should wait until we see a strategic opportunity to do that. I would think if we started having some wins isys would have fewer recruits and we would have better morale with the iraqi recruits and they would fight better. The chicken and egg perhaps, but i think its important and i hope i hope you will reevaluate that and recommends to the president we do that because without that we are not going to be effective. Thank you very much. Clicks thank you and thank you for being here in service to our country. You can tell this is a pretty a pretty sensitive subject in a very concerning subject all of us. As i go around the state of west virginia, very patriotic state. They are confused right now. You heard the frustration. Basically iraq is not a united country. The sunnis and shiites and kurds. I think secretary carter you said until iraq has the will to fight which group is the will to fight to defend the other group. That is what we are having a problem with. It has it has been said if you have a group that is fighting for why do we still have to make them go through the baghdad centralized government in order for them to get the weapons that they need to defend themselves . There are confused about that confused and syria trying to spend the money to find people to train. When when you acknowledge we only had 60 successful right now and the amount of effort we are spending, but you had the syrian kurds that were fighting and some things of that sort. I dont know. And then i asked the question. We continue to keep trying to train and arm the iraqis. It seems like all they are doing is supplying isys with the equipment the americans are giving them. When are we ever going to stop giving equipment to the people that want defend and fight for it . So i guess i we at your level, are you level are you talking to the white house about rethinking the whole iraqi position as far as one centralized government, one iraq or maybe a separated iraq . I think we are all aware that it is very difficult to govern iraq and a multi sectarian manner. Have we thought about the alternatives to that . I think we all have for years and im sure all of you have as well. We are trying to assist the Prime Minister and governing in in governing in a different way from the way malik you governed which, as senator sessions noted, led to the disintegration of the Iraqi Security forces, the sectarian coloration of them and that is what led to the collapse in sunni territory. Been asked the question. Didnt we see signs that malik he was incompetent . He would have gone strictly to the sectarian position as he did not for a strong united iraq . With all the people we have had committed we not see that coming . I can only speak for myself and i was not closely involved. To govern iraq from the center, center but in a decentralized enough way that the kurds kurds sunnis command shia each had a no space to carry on their own welfare and the way that they wished wished but there is a single ventricle iraqi state. And that is what he says he is working toward. That is why, for example for example, when we provide arms of the kurds we do it with the consent of the Iraqi Government in order to indicate that we support the idea of a single Iraqi Government in baghdad but also want of the kurds in the fight and armed command that has not delayed our arming of the kurds. They normally have the sunni in the shiites. And this is why it is so important to take the time to train a truly multi sectarian iraqi force. There are elements that have that right character. Cts. And so our strategy is to train and equip those local forces. Then we can help them. And it is a chicken and egg thing except that you need to have the capable and motivated ground force. And we can enable it. I think that i think that it has been pointed out. We had 100,000 troops at one time trying to train defend. 2,000 or sessions. That is worth mentioning my judgment about how this will evolve over time is that it is a generational issue. It is trans regional. Elements in afghanistan. We see it in iraq and syria, sinai, libya and we can just focus like a laser beam on one part. Has to be pressured across it. We are trying to achieve and enduring defeat which means we have got to work it through partners because they own people that have more to gain. Why are we forcing something upon people that dont want to accept it . Just follow up. Everything i recommend is recommended the attention of being flexible enough that we can build upon the. I i cant help but mention the situation they said general betray us in the surge iraq war was one. To ignore that in that conversation intellectually dishonest. Clicks just for the record pres. George w. Bush signed an agreement. We will have this debate later on. It was clear that we could have an everyone knows we could have. Sen. I want to thank both of you for being here for your service to the country. We appreciated. Wanted ask you, you ask you, you said in answer to senator mention then that the arms that we are providing. We are not the only ones, but we ones but we and others basically convey the directly. That doesnt delay arming. The Central Government quite seriously at her complaints. A few weeks ago. Grateful will be provided delays. Part of equipment or that of others the germans providing any take munitions which the value very much. Iraq is a single unitary multisectarian state. That is much preferred to the alternative. Let me follow up. They capture soviet. Some of them heavy armaments. Quite effective. Its hard if youre out armed. Are they now receiving. Our chairman. Again, just to say it is not just us. More than 12 nations overall arming the kurds. I noted i was with the German Defense minister in germany last week. She was providing these critical and i think weapons. Especially effective. An Effective Ground force that will stick up for up for itself altogether to take and hold territory. Brought agreement. We want to agreement. We want to make sure we have what they need. Address those quantity issues. I want to do a followup a different topic. General. General dempsey you mentioned your testimony the maligning influence. Today i read the press the lifting of the arms embargo and also the resolution of bands iran. I wanted to get your thoughts on those two issues and the importance. As far as i can tell we still need iran always supporting the asad regime has blah the hutu rebels and we have heard reports on the taliban. Your thoughts . I will start. You are right. I cannot speak to what is going on the negotiation. But i agree with your perspective that there are we have serious concerns with uranium maligned activities outside of the Nuclear Issue which is the focus of the talks. Whatever happens as far as an agreement over the Nuclear Program we have a clear duty in the department of defense first of all to defend our friends and allies to keep robust robust posture maintain a robust posture and to continue to maintain military strike irans Nuclear Program. We work on all three of those things and will work on them whether or not an agreement is reached in geneva clicks just of the clear, mr. Sec. It is not sound like based on what you are saying hell be a good idea to lift the arms embargo right now. Clicks military and limited. Clicks and also can you explain do is why its important that we also continue to stop them . We know they have one. Clicks the reason we want to stop them from having an icbm program is that in the the eye and icbm stands for intercontinental which means having the capability of life. Just answer your question. The pressure relative to Ballistic Missile capabilities. Clicks capabilities. Clicks thank you. I also just wanted to. Out something one thing that i think needs to be pointed out to the pres. Has said he will veto it. The Defense Authorization receive 71 votes in the senate. I i would describe that is very bipartisan. Troubles me that he would seek to veto something. Clicks thank you. I just got back. One of the meetings we had was with the member of the sunni tribal leaders. The people who are meeting your ass. No Food Supplies and have been told the only heir air with the can commend will be a military transport. Something you can do to be of a these individuals. We will Say Something about that. First of all, i want to thank you for traveling. Thank you for taking the time. The humanitarian situation is yet another tragic consequence of what is going on. On. It remains one of the coalitions efforts as i indicated in my Opening Statement to relieve the humanitarian situation which is difficult to do there is not order and control. This is why we need to get a do the security situation that is stable. Ground forces that are capable of seizing territory, holding territory, and governing, the only way to get the situation turned around. It is sad and tragic. In the case of iraq something brought about by the reemergence of sectarianism. Clicks one of the reasons we went to the air base is to advise and assist in the anbar Operation Center for these center for these kind of issues should actually migrate through. The iraqis the iraqis have the to address that. They have c130 j stateoftheart clicks i know they do but they are not. We will pass it to the guy who is embedded. When youre you are hungry your stomach doesnt tell you. You just want help. One of the bonds created we always felt that we could count on you. The followup not as we look at the money and other areas in the iraqi armed armed forces for one of the great tragedies of this whole thing was that the number of fighters was extraordinarily insignificant in terms of the overall number but the iraqi forces head of the other way. And so i wanted to hear your thoughts on making sure that the iraqi forces know that there is no back door. Theres only one way through and thats forward. I will Say Something about that and you may want to add. The way you recount the fall is exactly correct. Correct. The mady needs to be retaken the way to do it is to have a a force under the commandandcontrol competent command and control of Iraqi Security forces commanders which has been a challenge. And a plan and the means to as you say make sure that they dont bog down and are able to take riemannian move through, this will be a test of the competence of the Iraqi Security forces and it is a a test that they must pass and therefore power in the coalitions involvement is to try to train and equip and support them to be successful. Youll take the time and encourage them to take the time so that the operation when they do conducted a successful. One of the side spinoffs when it is successful and were mady is taken back is that isys will then look for a quick claim somewhere else. And so i just want to make sure that we are ready and surrounding towns in areas. The. Mady falls we know they will step somewhere else in that we have a plan in place to protect those of the council the campaign which about a month ago a month ago was about to be executed precipitously has actually been very deliberate Campaign First to isolate and then to go back and recapture with the supporting effort in falluja our presence in the anbar Operation Center is allowing the Iraqi Security forces to take a more deliberate campaign approach and to avoid the very toothpaste