Was established and these people right now are probably dominating among the people who have returned to European Countries. For these people there need to be options other than going to prison for 20, 30, 40 or so i have always been in my colleagues and i have always been very forthright in pushing European Countries to establish reIntegration Programs for people who are generally disillusioned to believe they made a mistake who have not committed major crimes. Its something that can be very tough but allows for the reintegration of people back into their societies. You have these three different groups, disillusioned, disturbed and dangerous. I think right now by far the Largest Group isnt that the fourth group which i call the undecideds. A lot of people have returned and is not clear at all what kinds of things they would do in the long term. This shouldnt surprise us. This thread and this is my final remark, this threat will play out over long period of time. If afghanistan in the 1980s is the correct analogy then you have to accept that this will be a threat as president obama said that will be with us for probably the generation to come. It can be traced back to the 1980s in afghanistan have happened over a decade after the end of the conflict. I think there will be stuff happening in a decades time it goes back to what is happening right now in iraq. Osama bin ladin started his career as a foreign fighter that at the end of the afghanistan conflict he had not decided if it will become an international terrorists. It took him a few years to figure out a pretty tried to with the saudi government. He offered his services in 1990. He is not exactly figured out the game plan for the next 10 or 20 years in 1989. So i think it is the same for a lot of the foreign fighters who have returned to their home countries. They havent decided what they are going to do but they are keeping their options open. The final remark is a huge problem for a lot of European Countries given all of what i have said now is precisely what lorenzo pointed out namely capacity. A lot of these smaller European Countries are completely overwhelmed by the numbers of people who have gone, by the numbers of people who have come back and they need the reIntegration Programs and they are the strongest advocates because they say its not going to do the trick because they cannot go but the necessary capacity to deal with this so cve is not about being nice to terrorists. Its actually essential in order to enable security authorities to do their job and to do it right. Thank you. A lot of food for thought there and a lot of items you raise that i think worked some good discussion among the panel. I will save my questions because i have quite a few along those lines were afterwards but hernando maybe you can take us in a case study look at spain a little bit and what those implications may or may not mean more broadly for europe in for europe and for United States and other so thank you. Thank you very much indeed frank. I will provide but also a few comments, complementing those who have already made first of all thank you very much for having me here today. On behalf of myself and also on behalf of of the institution. Today i appreciate the opportunity to congratulate the George Washington university for having you and you for leading this new program on extremism here. The year before the war started in syria, that is the year 2010 the number of muslims in the world was estimated at 1,600,000,000 or you would say 1. 6 billion you say here in the u. S. Around 20 million were living in western europe. That means 1. 25 . And yet im using the data provided by the Previous Institute earlier this year so they can be outdated but for you to get a reference, now there are 40,000 individuals, nationals in western europe who made the trip or tried to make the trip from their countries to syria and iraq. That means on the one hand on the other hand that means europeans are at least 16 times overrepresented among foreign terrorist fighters. But from another type of jihadist. Now if we have this in mind with the mobilization and Second Generation and at the same time, we Pay Attention to the remarkable diversity of socioeconomic backgrounds among those who had been arrested in the European Countries over the past year. With all sorts of socioeconomic backgrounds. What difference is it to show the place that the muslim communities have. Denmark is the same as the netherlands or belgium. Even in the case of spain. We have university college. Those who are businessmen or small business. It is and does if marginal people were excluded it is not as simple as that. And certainly the evolution of this phenomenon as we can see is an important transformation taking place in the European Union where this Second Generation is now emerging. Between the United States we had no single woman but now as the 2015, 1345 of all of those are women. In the previous period, the vast majority arrested at the age between 25 and 39. Now it is 20 and 34 more interesting perhaps with the case of italy between 1996 with spain really have won a 5 now we have 13 percent of converts of over 100 individuals in those networks linking it to syria. So what is suggested with secondgeneration is diversity. We cannot explain things that add additional level but if we have a particular issue that our dominant that we have vague generalized identity conflict affecting secondgeneration of people in europe. And it is known to be in a dire situation could be a dire situation and the more likely than not with those identities. Of the diaspora people depend on social norms that they are private. To have this in the conflict possible way out of muslim identity. Coming from the Islamic State also associates violence to tell you about people. But i was none of french or italian. Or word tied to the country that i came from. When did this man came to my circle. I spoke to someone and is not promoted not by a single mistake is promoted by a the Islamic State to join us to become a member of an organization in the hindu kush to join us to you want to fight . Do so. Pin but added debased society. We have of problem with these people between creatures and societies that the immediate circle we do speak often to be provided to people to solve the conflict between their identity in particular their father tries to maintain within the family and outside the house. I hate to do this but i want to make sure that we have some time for q a. My very last point, now people talk about social media with 2012 involvement with the processed linked to syria. 90point 3 initiated the process in the company of others. And completed the process throughout a series of stages with facetoface interaction often it is part of that process so now something very important that has been pointed out to six out of 10 cases they became involved in a network they were already jihadist. But the judges thought there was no evidence to be trained by al qaeda in my country. Butted my country it is now the offense and not its are all equally aggressive in some places like italy for that matter the forces are more aggressive than in other countries for them to consider that had a huge problem are just looking at the figures in the most recent report. And rivera last point is maybe still not thinking all that much but we have to think about actions to make sure it to facilitate and to understand that is compatible with other identities gender or nationality identities it in that case we have to convert the Islamic State but also the narrative. But in my opinion it is equally serious. Thank you very much for not only a sobering picture in terms of the statistics when you left with an important point. While we have a number of statistics and numbers dont tell the full story but contextual the in terms to describe the problem to prescribing solutions is one that i think all countries are still grappling with. I thank you heard from all three speakers that it is not a simple to find a single profile. I would argue however this single common denominator is we have to start addressing those underpinnings where i may be a little more hawkish to go to dash political campaigning and necessarily propagating our own, i would like to get to ohio what we think some of these solutions sets are providing a lead to disagree with your point as to do phenomenal research but the west numbers are hitting the tempo that we have not seen any other time since then 11. 60 this year alone 60 individuals plotting attacks are attempting to travel overseas to join with isis or other jihadi organizations endorsing a cochlear conflagration i think sometimes we over complicate in terms to figure out from group to group to group but at the end of the day it is the narrative. That may be small numbers but it is pretty big the highest we have seen in quite some time. I would be curious what our group thinks of prescribing solutions. How to retake this from understanding the challenge challenge, of the u. K. Has done an aboutface of 180 degrees of they were addressing these issues in terms of what we refer to as extremism or however you refer to it so what do we clean right here . There is a big difference from enabling Law Enforcement to ensure they have the tools to get the job done, and they do need those tools but that is always reactive so what are the steps we can take to get ahead of the curve . We will start with lorenzo. But i do want to discuss the south to open that up at the end of the day ebitda of a group does not a spouse violence the story is the same. We will start with you. Of very complex issue from that more logistical ideological approach obviously the Solutions Come equally diverse and complex. There is the big picture that you touch upon it the not so certain the veiled criticism of turkey but to the point that is the enabling factor looking back at 2012 2013 people wanted to go wherever it was theres still debating somalia, syria, so easy. There is a lot of symbolism symbolism, with the muslim world but that is the geopolitical peace there. And to do touched upon the second aspect of the Capacity Building and obviously as peter was saying it is an issue in belgium and the netherlands with a small Law Enforcement agencies bet even in larger countries win the french government introduced us series of solutions, some of those were politically motivated i think one was to the point to hire them to strengthen that Law Enforcement intelligence but one of the largest Counterterrorism Forces which is france but to see every single attack in all western countries where the perpetrators are known to Law Enforcement london 2004 or 2005 that the person was known with legal issues and they shouldnt in this society but you have to make a judgment call with a tier one or two years to four twoyear three that was not a priority anymore. To put resources and therefore obviously a judgment calls are more difficult to make. But that is unfair to put the burden on lawenforcement as the resources are stretched too thin. To discuss the importance of those measures there is the variety of reasons to talk about rehabilitation or though one on one interventions are that targeted intervention so what if you do with a 18 yearold to raise radicalizing . Sure you can monitor the four traditional lawenforcement tactics but to to try to sway that person as they embark on but to be very complex set everybody gives it the meaning that is different from the next person but there is the counter narrative whether creating a positive narrative what we stand for or to undermine the narrative i dont think it is either or proposition but both messages together in the positive and negative way. But to touch upon the argument with no violence and extremism and in the u. K. There is the major shift as the most part of the solution with the of Muslim Brotherhood groups these days are seen as a larger part of the problem. That is largely adopted. And if i can ask the panel to be as brief as they cannot want to make sure we have time for the audience to ask questions as well. I think a lot of the measures that i needed are outlined in the Security Council resolution 2178 that i had the privilege to work on. Those are mostly punitive measures it is also Bad Information exchange. Perhaps what i want to expand on a little bit is there is a couple of things. We need to have projects and smaller things with three Integration Programs and exit programs that are often underfunded and reIntegration Programs. In every european country and every country, there should be a hot line that parents can call that is not answered by the police. 99 percent cannot want their kids to go to syria to die but they are not calling the police because as much as they dont want their kids to die they dont want their kids to go to prison so they do crazy things to prevent their kids from going sometimes wrong or things that prompt them to go. It would be useful to have a place for people can call to get the best professional advice to handle this without necessarily immediately causing a security issue. That is one concrete thing to be done. Not to create a government led top down there is on the internet is a drop in the bucket if we do four times that it is for drops in the bucket. Think of it differently how we can galvanize the movement that actually confronts the movement of the Islamic State. Also coming getting me to the final two points there are things as important as a counter narrative it is the are, there are some stanches issues that underlie the phenomenon for the first is the Islamic State for a long time seemed to be winning and one of my colleagues once told me the secret to their success is their success. As long as the Islamic State seems to have momentum and representing a new caliphate people will be excited about it. For the past few months the Islamic State has not been able to expand the territory as much as last summer has had an effect on recruitment that is with the perception of those and the other aspect is that in europe europe, the unfortunate truth is we have not been successful to establish National Identities in a way that it is possible to be a hyphenated american to be perfectly content and happy to be a part of this nation but yet at the same time to be deprived of their identity and we have not succeeded and much more needs to happen as a willingness to enter greet but also the majority population as an offer to be accepted into European Society as part of European Society that is most always the case and that precise lacked a feeling or belonging that facilitates inclusion in the Jihadist Movement also to travel abroad. And to the the families of 9 11 but also did that must me one of the most difficult dilemmas to go through but i want to have time for q a i have a lot of hands please be quick with your questions and identify yourself we will do them into relating rounds of threeyear for questions. Here and there. Please start and identify yourself. Retired Naval Intelligence officer i am all for effective use of enforcement, and there is another dimension and that is diplomacy. Diplomacy that could be generalized but it is almost all muscle with the sudanese and the shia. But the turks have no identity more than anybody associated with how moss hamas to be secure concerned with Border Security or selfdefense. I have not heard any mention of the cooperation. That is a great question. We talked a lot about that in terms understanding beyond that but honestly up and tell the obligations until recently that is the great question never like to hear what others think. We will do this quickly please wait for the microphone. American institute of studies. But in the strange case of germany that only had one attack at the airport several years ago but is that indicative of anything of that is a fluke . And we have a question over here. My question is not withstanding your predicament of the Government Initiative there is still less huge role for government but looking at the u. S. Government in particular, have a to the deal with the Community Uprising . One more then we have to wrap it up. Thank you and the senior fellow here. Nothing exist in isolation it was the great presentation among all of you. But it is hard with so many Good Solutions but from my point of view it is tough you talk about grass roots what you suggested is good will but with the situation and increased can muster that will to take on Something Like this . Or the money . How is the situation with muslims migrating from the Different Countries across of mediterranean coastal states in great numbers the last couple years in particular . With the tyranny of time were starting with a lightning round. I promised to get us out of your in three minutes. [laughter] because of that i will do turkey. Ideally that is what needs to have been but in reality however it is very clear that i dont want to exaggerate but has ambiguous to incorporate with western allies. If you put yourself into the president s shoes, you understand why. Is very obvious. The country that is on his mind is the fact that the infrastructure