Senate down. Those will force most provinces, almost all of them who have opposed Senate Elections and reform, to come clean with that and explain why the senators are not being elected. Why the will not abolish. Time, public pressure will force this issue to be resolved. Frankly, the longer there are vacancies, it will raise questions about why we continue with the senate we do. One good way to come up for ideas is to meet with the trust issues . No, there is nowhere near agreement on reform or revelation and i think opening up the state departments decisions is a wrong priority. If the provinces believe the senate should be fixed, tell us how, they opposed that. Thank you, mr. Har harper. Well paul, you could say there are broken promises and broken promises. Mr. Harper, promised he would never name an appointed senator. He has gone on to break a record naming 59. The list of conservative senators under Investigation Continues to grow. I am looking for a mandate on october 19th to put an end to this mess once and for all. Canadians deserve better. Making sure every vote counts, open up parliment, and making sure every dollar is spent in that committee. We do want to get rid of the senate. Abolition pure and simple. Mr. Trudeau thinks me need better s bett bett better senators but i think we need previous senators. He broke the promise on his very first day as Prime Minister by appointing a senator to the senate. He broke that promise 58 more times. So i can understand why no body would believe him when he says he will not appoint any more senators. They want to open up the constitution, but the fact of the matter is when the next Prime Minister sits down with people, i can tell you canadians want to talk about jobs, Climate Change, health care, not talking about how to open up the constitution to try to improve the senate. The liberal party took concrete action to remove senators from our caucus to make sure any future appointments are done in a transparent, nonpartisan way. With all due respect, whoever gave the advice what you are doing is constitutional, you need to go back to law cool. The single biggest scandal wasnt the misspending but the notion that the prime minters office as the right to tell the conservative senators how to vote. For the first time in the history of the country, a bill passed in a democratically elected house. When it went to the senate, the senators were instructing to kill it. Mr. Harper, did you ask the senators to stop that bill . We ask senators to do, not force them, but we ask them to support the partys position and the party didnt support that particular bill. Look at the facts of the parliament under the government. We hadilation of the situation. I was there with jack in front of the senate the day the senators were promeriting and the bills were adopted by those people da voted upon and enacted by the parliament. We asked the senators to stick to their principles. And the fact of the matter, this legislation has been blocked by the senate in the past. Never. What is unprecedented is government legislation and i dont have to name senators. And we have 22 vacancy is we have a healthy government majority. You broke your promise 59 times. Is there a record on that . For nearly three years we left some 20 vacancy in the senate and invited the provinces to fill them through elections, one one did. In 2008, i said i would appoint senators, we did so, and now we dont need to and we have stopped. But mr. Trudeau, talking about truth. You said there are no liberal senators. There are 29 liberal senators working for the liberal party. Mr. Harper senate ovlution arequirementy required. Is that not a problem . We would take a completely different approach to dealing with the problems of this issue of Senate Abolition demands a mandate. Mr. Harper has refused to attend a single meeting of the council of confederation. I go to two a year. I am not afraid of sitting down with my counterparts on things Like Health Care we need a new and modern accord, of course i am going to sit down with them instead of dictating a big cut. On senate reform, i would ask for a mandate and start the hard work of meeting to get people on board to get rid of the Unaccountable Institution that is a relic from our colonial past. Not only do you respect the government position against Senate Abolition it was your position all of the years you were in the senate in quebec. Every success of government says it is a long standing policy. That is why i am not hesitant to sit down with my friend and colleagues and work on this tough issue. I believe sincerely the only way to deal with the senate is to get rid of it. 1 billion has been spent on the senate on mr. Harpers watch. He did nothing about abolition, reform, can you imagine how many Child Care Spaces we could have created with that much money . I would appreciate addressing this. The way the greens advocate changing the way we make decisions to Work Together is to create a council of governments including building on the council of confederation, representation from municipal and local governments, First Nations and others around the same table. We need to deal with the senate. It is not my top priority because it is hard and it will require opening up the constitution. We think we should amend the amending formula so canadians can change the constitution by referendum instead of the way we we are saddled can today. Mr. Trudeau, are you associated with this . Unlike mr. Harper saying he directed the senators to vote along the party lines, i have not done that. We feel the decisions taken in the upper house should be independent of the political maneuvering. You broke the party line every single time. We have about 20 seconds. If you listen to mr. Trudeau you would have to believe the liberal senators have changed. During the most recent election in nova scotian elections the bag man of the liberal party were up there thanking. Larry campbell endorsed me and my group. I am afraid we have to say bye. Stay with us for the final round and closing remarks. We have moved the viewing party left and taking a live look at the university of British Columbia parked tonight as more youth tune into the issues impacting our nation. We approach the final leg of this debate. Justin, i am going to start with you. What are you thinking on round two . I think mulcair was strong in the senate. He had a couple issues where he could have been stronger but got into the groove and went after the Prime Minister. Elizabeth brought herself in the debut by knowing her facts and what she was going to say ahead of time. She got there, made her point, and i dont know if she will connect with the canadians but got into the debate. I agree with the point mulcair. I thought the Prime Minister came out scuffed up but not too beat up. What do you think about asking if he should apologize . That is a tough question. It was a little bit of an awkward answer. I think harper was good on the question of separation. With that came in and mulcair and trudeau were going after each other that was probably one of the stronger points. But he was on the hot seat taking a lot of attacks and we heard that is not true so many times throughout the debate and trudeau has performed well. Harper taking a lot of heat. And canadians are piping up about issues on facebook. Roger peterson with how you have been responding. Kevin chan, we have been talking about the polls the latest one and look at the numbers. 82 of canadians watching tonight polling saying we should change the system not surprising when you think about how important government has been. People say government doesnt matter but when you look at the map it is the second highest discussion for the election. We will head over to Gord Martineau now. Be sure to tune in after the debate and we will explore how canadians are responding in person and on online and here from the moderator about being in the middle of the action and that is where we are going right now. To four Party Leaders are in here toronto to talk on the final issue. Welcome back. Our final topic for tonights debate is on Foreign Policy and security. If ever a choice between the choices canada makes at home it went away last friday when terrorist murdered forces in ottawa and st. Johns. Canadas security is being challenged in iraq and syria and our commitment to our allies are tested in Eastern Europe, our relation with the United States and world rising powers is another area of functioning. And we will discuss china and the world in the final section. Tom mulcair gets the first question. Canadians are not wanting to send soldiers into the combat but will defend canadian values by force when necessary. Would an ndp government sent troops or jet fighters into combat . If so where . We have shown that willingness in the past with the case in libya. We agreed with the first two votes in the house and withdrew that when we changed the mission. Canadian airlift went into ma malawi and we agreed. But i will think about the soldiers, their families, and make sure we have a clearly defining mission and exit strategy. That is why when mr. Harper started the adventure in iraq he said this is not something canada should be involved in. Every person on the panel agrees with the importance of fighting terrorism but the question is when do we put canadian troops in harms way and we thought it was inappropriate. All of our allies support the mission against isis in iraq and syria. Is that not a broad enough co e concensus . This is not a natoled mission. This is an americanled approach. We know a lot of horrors we are seeing is a direct result of the last misguided war and i think frankly canada got it right when we said he would stay out of the 2003 war and we are seeing the results of that right now. First response going to elizabeth may. Mr. Mulcair, that second vote, with all due respect, with every member voted for the continued work in libya took place after the changes. The sanctions approval was responsible for protecting civilians. At the moment we as a country, canada, said the rebel forces, they are the legitimate government of libya we did that knowing the rebel forces included alqaeda. I was the only member of parliament to who voted against continued fire because it seemed we should take the ceasefire and see if it worked. The warehouses were emptied out by hoodlums and terrorist and destabilized malawi and some of those very weapons handed up in the hands of isis. So the question is why did we as a country and never ndp member vote to continue bombarding them when everything was clear . I guess the answer to that and we will always evaluate it based on whether or not it is the United Nations mission when it came clear to changed into a situation of regime change we didnt vote. Ms. May is opposed to every single possible use of our military. Mr. Harper is in favor of every single use of the military. We will take a balanced approach that takes into account traditional values. Justin trudeau while doing this questioning, do you think we need a United Nations mandate before sending troops out . I think it is a clear indicator we should be involved but there are other situations where we should not be. I supported our engagement in afghanistan and cosovo and i am proud to have among us in our great team of candidates the former commander of the army on the ground in afghanistan. The liberal party knows that canada has an Important Role to play in promoting peace and security around the world. I think we should have a role against isis but i disagree on the approach he had. Mr. Harper, hasnt seen a war he hasnt wanted to get involved in and that was clear when he supported bushs war into iraq and said in 2003 the canadians should be involved. Canada has a role to play but it needs to be the right one helping local forces win the war for themselves. Mr. Harper, two of your opponents said you havent seen a war you dont like. What do you make of that . I dont think this government has gotten involved in many military actions. We are involved in one against isis right now in iraq and syria. It is not true what mr. Mulcair said. All of our nato allies support this and not only nato allies virltually all of the muslim countries in the Region Support this because this organization is a nerve center of a violent Jihadist Movement that is slaughtering hundreds and thousands of people but it a threat to the entire region and globe. It has singled out canadians by name and demonstrated the ability to carry out attacks in countries like ours. It would be foolish not to go after this group before they come after us. I am proud of the job the men and women are doing. I think it is widely supported by the canadians. A question one of my colleagues put to you. If not isis than who . The liberal party is clear. We support being part of the coalition against isis. We disagree that a Bombing Mission is the right way to go about it. When a Prime Minister choses to send men and women on the there has to be a clear plan, expectation of success, and reasonable justification of the specific action canada is taking. Not just these people are bad, therefore we need to do something, it doesnt matter what. It means we have to be thoughtful because our allies and quite frankly canadians expect us to be thoughtful about our approach when we engage in international behavior. The other thing is if we are going to send troops overseas we need to make sure we are properly taking care of them when they come home. And mr. Harper has failed our veterans by nickel and diming them and not giving them the service or help they need. It is something we should be ashamed of that this government is not caring for those people who fought, injured themselves and in main cases died under the flag. This government made record investment in veterans spending 35 more on the average veteran directly than we were when we came into the option. What we are doing with isis is the mission our International Allies think we should be doing. These are the priorities. Hit them in the air, help to train people particularly the kurds on the ground. Mr. Trudeau provides no rational reasoning why they should not doing that other than they should not go there. This is in the vital interest of the country and if you are Prime Minister you have to be able to make the decisions it is tricky. The question of who is our friend and who is our enemy. We are bombing in syria and we dont have permission. The civil war that has been waging in syria caused massive humanitarian crisis, four million syrians who have taken refuge in other countries. That was between the sunnishiite where they are slaughtering each other and isis is taking advantage of that. Are we going to help bomb isis, who some people said isis was probably helpful because they were getting assad. Most of the worlds crisis areas are in tricky parts of the world. It is very tricky. That is why we have to look at what isis is doing. Why does this group of thugs put their horrific acts on youtube . They want to draw us into the region. They are following an ancient and not official text of which they claim is a muslim book of revelations that will lead them to certainly results. We are actually doing what they want. I have a question about different parts of the world. Natos article five says if a nato nation is attacked all nations must respond. Would they uphold article five in Eastern Europe . Of course. Ukraine not being a member of nato i am not sure the question would pertain. We will support nato and are proud of nato. That is why i made reference to this cornerstone. The mission in iraq is not a nato mission. Period. Full stop. With regard to crane, putin is a danger. We stand firmly with ukraine against the aggression by russia. But there are things candidateicide and shouldnt be doing. Our allies have a complete list of people being sanctioned. My question to you mr. Harper is why are these two individuals being blocked by the allies and you are giving them a clear pass we have sanctioned a Record Number of officials connected with the previous government and russian officials involved in ukrainian territory. The objective in all of these things is making sure we do maximum damage to the country and putin while we try to minimize ours. We follow with the list and they do the same. These two individuals are on the list of our closest allies. Mr. Harper is refusing to put them on canadians list and now refusing to tell them why. On that note, we are wrapping up but heading into one final round of questions and that goes to justin trudeau. You had difficult decisions on war abroad and security at home, opposing the governments decision to take part against the action against isis in iraq and syria. Why do these issues raise the most persistent questions about your judgment . The government and Prime Minister of canada is expected to do two things. The first is keep us safe and second is uphold and defend our rights and freedom. Mr. Harper doesnt think we need to do anything more to protect your rights and freedom and mr. Mulcair with his position on counterterrorism law doesnt thing we need to do anything more. The liberal party is clear. We need to do both together. We supported the legislation because there were elements in there that protect canadian security and were committed to repealing the problematic elements that are highlighted and bringing in the proper oversight our allies all have by elected legislatures over the National Security agencies to make sure we are protecting. Bringing in sunset and review clause and making sure we are narrowing and specifying the definitions. We encourage the government to bring in specific amendments that removed a number of elements in it. We will continue to be productive and constructive in not pretending there is a Political Choice to be made.