Up next on booktv after words historian richard discusses polite than political career of Newt Gingrich. Hes interviewed by former virginia congressman tom davis. Host thanks for joining us. Again i former congressman tom davis. The book is citizen newt by craig shirley, an awardwinning author. He did a reagan biography, and this book on Newt Gingrich is as good as ive seen. I enjoyed the book. Its an easy read. You learn a lot not just about newt but about the history and the times i think we tend to forget. Memories are short and politics. Guest they sure are. Host you to talk about allf his ideas and filling baskets full of newt. We used to have saying that there was a file cabinet with four drawers. The first drawer, his ideas, the second drawer, his ideas and the fourth drawer his good ideas. Tell us a little bit trenchard i think i was a running joke. Host it was the idea guy. Guest the contract, so much of what he introduced to the Republican Party which had not been a part of the organization of the party before like corruption which was not a permanent part of the Republican Party. Also permanent offense was also had not been a permanent fixture of the Republican Party before that. Those are tactical things he introduced but also the ideas that you were there. Host you were part of the reagan revolution turkey of written widely on that. Was he an extension of that . Guest most certainly. As you remember the contract with america was very much for trade as reagan principles. In many ways the contract with reference on Ronald Reagan versus bill clinton. Everybody was confident in that context that reagan would be beat clinton precisely and results prove that. Host the media portrays gingrichs one way but you offer a reading of how to get into politics. He wanted to replace the people who were in power. Guest yes. Host tell us about his first race. It was not a a conventionally conservative race by any means. Guest he was a conservative. He called himself a a conservae but he wasnt really although he wrote in 1974, one of the first articles, for the baltimore sun, when a first articles advocating governor reagan challenge incumbent president gerald ford in the 76 primaries. Which was vision at the time to do so we thought he was going to get annoyed thought he had a chance at beating gerald ford in the primaries. He came within an eyelash and a whisker of defeating ford in kansas city in 76. He was already thinking about politics, thinking about the future politics and thinking about revolutionary politics. He runs in 74 in the of watergate when republicans after nixon resigns after agnew resigned there before as the republicans got wiped out across the country. 45 house seats, governorships, everything just up and down the voting booth. And he came within 6000 votes of defeating a longterm incumbent who was a google seven democrat, good old boy down in georgia. It was quite remarkable because he was outspent. Flint had more name id, had more deeper roots in the district. Gingrich was a carpetbagger. He grew up in harrisburg and would to school in new orleans. Been teaching at west Georgia College for a time but he had its roots in georgia politics were pretty shallow at the time 1974. Host the district had part of suburban atlanta and it had the rural parts. Guest stretched all the way to the alabama border. I think with six counties of the time. Yet the balance, and atlanta, the hartsfield airport was in his districts we had to consider that as far as his pitch. He had urban whitecollar business interest and then very, very rural bluecollar agricultural interest as well. Host george was essentially a oneparty state here they had never had a republican governor. Had not had a republican senator after that time. They had a couple couple of houses in the suburban North Atlanta suburbs. Flint kind of a good old boy. I would guess pretty strong rural parts of the district. Guest he was strong in washington. He played his cards well. He had deep roots. His constituent service was very good but also played the game in washington. He looked like he was there for as long as he wanted to be different in fact, he was until he resigned, and kill three announced his 70. Host a new nomination problem for newt at that point . Guest he wasnt challenged at 74. He was challenged and 766 and 70 but it was token opposition and he pretty much wiped out the challenger in the primaries. Host tell us how did he come to win the seat that it never voted for a republican for . Guest having run twice before he had pretty good established name id by 1970 [inaudible conversations] loses. Guest he loses by 6000 votes out of 103,000 cast. Two years later, jimmy carter the popular former governor of georgia is the democratic nominee, and again he carries flint across the finish line because carter carried georgia that your by huge i think he was 7030, enormous victory for carter in 76. Of course newts fight of that uphill fight as well. And again he loses just by about 6000 votes out of 145,000 cast. This is got to be maddening, first watergate stops him from winning and then the nomination of a popular georgia governor jimmy carter stops him from winning. It we just drive anybody bonkers. Finally he gets a a clean shott in 78. Flint new seven it was going to be problematic for him. He had been in Congress SinceDwight Eisenhower had been in the white house, and we finally resigned and the democrats nominate a popular state senator who runs a Good Campaign but gingrich, 70 is somewhat a a republican year but not an overwhelming republican year, is that the republicans picked up i think three seats in the house and about 15 or 20, three seats in the senate and about 15 or 20 in the house in 78. One of those was Newt Gingrich. Host flint retires because hes had to close races and he wants to go out a winner. Guest he had run, when republicans did have canned he was usually winning 8515. Gingrich was a first serious challenge he ever had. Host there were no republican legislators on a local level as you look at it. Talk to me about his strategy. I was surprised reading this book yet black endorsements. He had a black newspaper, parts of labor within, groups that later on we think he was anathema to them. Tell us about the coalition. Guest jack flint was democrat but he was jim crow. For instance, there was a local congressman at the time named andy young who later went on to be carters ambassador to u. N. And prominent leader in the black community. Jack flint wouldnt sit down, remember the same georgia delegation adjoining district. Jack flint wouldnt sit at the same table and have breakfast with henry young. Meanwhile, gingrich has the support of the atlanta daily were witches the blackowned daily newspaper and hes meeting with him all the time. Hes campaigning in black district that is campaign in the churches. He has widespread support among the black community in georgia in the 1970. Something nobody thought a republican could possibly do. Is that he was very much welcomed into the black command and he was happy to campaign in. Host hit some labor endorsements . Guest he didnt throughout the questionnaire thought the question of exactly the way you want but he did have come as a matter fact, some Airline Pilots union endorsed gingrich and 78. Host the coalition that elected him over time change but it was a guest it was a precursor to the reagan coalition. Because he had heavy Union Support which reagan had heavy Union Support. Not Union Endorsement but households in 1978 the reagan had 80 and 84. So he was kind of a precursor. Reagan didnt get the amount of support from the Africanamerican Community that gingrich got, but it wasnt for lack of trying. Reagan was endorsed by Hosea Williams and other africanamerican leaders in the 1980 campaign. Host gingrich wins in 78, comes to washington, and the groups that supported him were not necessarily republican groups. You talk in a book about what he did to try to keep these groups in line. Guest the there were in vitamin of groups supported him. There was really an interesting coalition because there was no conservative organization to speak out in georgia. Only the threadbare Republican Party took it was a vibrant as it is today. They could not muster money or resources for milk anything like that for campaigns so its basically just a letterhead organization which was pretty much it. You had is running in georgia, you have to go to own organization. You cant depend on the local party or state party. Did you depend on the Coalition Support of various groups. The environmentalists were an important part to him because thats what he taught at west george was environmental studies. So this was, legislation, hearings, meeting, he kept the door open to the more reasonable environmental organizations. Host compared to its predecessor is probably pretty welcomed . Guest absolutely. Host he supported for a Martin Luther king statute in guest the first one to call for it. It was one of the first ones to call for Martin Luther king, jr. Holiday. The Reagan Administration was slow in going along with that idea as were a lot of republicans were slow to go along with the idea. Gingrich was the first one. Host that was part of his base, part of his constituency that elected them and its a pretty low thing to ask for that. He was more jack kemp at that time. Guest he was kind of jack kemp before jack kemp. Host he introduced the bill for medical marijuana. Guest yes. Host way before its time. I think people looking at new today and in the chastity wouldve looked at this freshman legislator come in at the time as a freshman congressman, is that the Newt Gingrich it again . Guest well, i think he reached a point where, no doubt he started out as a rockefeller republican. He said so. He supported rockefeller, Nelson Rockefeller for president in 1968, but he evolved over time because the way most people arrived at a conservative decision because they see liberalism is not working. Good intentions, good ideas but it doesnt work practically in a governmental sense whereas conservatism and the free market does work. So he evolved over the time. He was always antiestablishment. Host he stood up against the South African apartheid government. Few republicans stood up on that. He voted for the 85 Civil Rights Act and got a lot of grief for that i assume in georgia for that. A pretty white district at that time. He took his name off Jimmy Swaggart masthead when Jimmy Swaggart misbehaved. This is a this is a newt gingrik the image today, we wouldnt recognize. Guest thats partially why with the book is because the language the Newt Gingrich image of today, i think its a yes, of course, i did those things. Why wouldnt i do those things . Of course i would take my name off his letterhead or of course i i would vote for the Civil Rights Act or of course i would oppose apartheid or the communist government in nicaragua or congressman supporting the communists government in nicaragua. Host this book is a lot of history besides gingrich. It goes back to the time in terms of politics was like. We were talking before hand about of this year when donald trump met with some of the russians, people said it was treason in the logan act but you point out in the book jim wright and number democrats were meeting with daniel ortega. Guest at the nicaraguan, discovered and were actively undermining reagans Foreign Policy when it came to nicaragua. They were all in complete violation of the logan act. Host new courage gingrich was a backbench guest it was called i think the redneck row. He sat right at the back of house were all the freshman southern republicans and democrats that. Host do you think of the time anybody would respondent as a future speaker . Guest i think a few people saw him, the potential for leadership. But i agree washington was different in those days. It was much more get along go a long found that it is today. Theres more of and appreciation for revolutionaries and antistatus quo politicians nanda was even after watergate. Host democrats i talk to when they talk about the polarization in washington and, of course, its much, much worse than ever was back when newt was rising, but thats not the republicans fault. They blame it on gingrich, and they place it, is sore with gingrich and. 5 is a lot of other factors but could you discuss it . Guest if you go back, ill tell you where it started, tom, is back in the 30s, \40{l1}s{l0}\40{l1}s{l0}, \50{l1}s{l0}\50{l1}s{l0}, \60{l1}s{l0}\60{l1}s{l0} there were a lot of liberal republicans and a lot of conservative democrats. There was an overlap between the two parties so that he could compromise more easily than the candidate. Pretty much polarized, the Republican Party is all conservative or mostly conservative. Host they were not ideologically sorted. Guest right. But what happens is that the Political Parties operated in pretty much a state of equilibrium, and when they met at the national conventions, the democrats nominated a liberal, you know, then it would take a conservative Vice President to join the Party Together, unify the party, to produce a unified convention. Eisenhower, the modern pics mix and the conservative. The modern pics lodge the moderate. Kennedy the moderate pics lbj the conservative. Forget the voting record and talk. This all changes, so both parties operate in the state of equilibrium and up until 1964 when goldwater is the nominee of the Republican Party in San Francisco and logic says okay, he should pick Nelson Rockefeller or bill scranton or someone like that as his running mate unify the party and to help him win the election against lbj in the fall. But goldwater instead rejects that theory and he picks a littleknown very, very conservative bill wilson, congressman bill wilson bill miller, beg your pardon, from buffalo, new york. Now its all conservative against the process of driving liberal republicans out of the party. Over the years people like john lindsay leave the Republican Party go to the Democratic Party but he also begins a a processf attracting conservative democrats. John connolly conservative democrat joins the Republican Party. Strong thurman joins Republican Party. So begins the process host the Voting Rights act brought in different dynamic 27 voting, right . Guest right. Host they drove along the establishment democrat. We saw that in virginia when bill beats willis for the senate. So they said we dont have harry byrd could win as a democrat anymore so he runs as independent. Guest exactly. Goldwater starts the process and it continued up until today. So there are very, very few liberal republicans in the party anymore. Very, very few conservative democrats in the party anymore. Host that started but newt saw something else, a chance to be the majority. Guest yes. Like reagan he realizes a lot of conservatives also democrats, a lot of conservatives, a lot of democrats are animated by populist issues, which is in its essence antibig corporation, antibig government which is why you can have a liberal populace can be antiwall street and conservative populace can be antigovernment. Host although that his campaign. Guest absolutely. Host how is this met when he comes up initially . How does the leadership view this new guy from georgia . Guest they are happy to have the vote by these uncontrollable, and the Bush White House despised him in the Bush White House did everything they can to stop them from being elected with. The supported and madigan who was from illinois, a moderate establishment republican, and gingrich defeats him by one vote in the Bush White House is just apoplectic about this because gingrich is not going to carry water from the Bush White House and gingrich is very much his own man. Host talk but gingrich and bush fraud shack versus lane mignon. Can you explain it . Guest just a cultural difference between the two. Gingrich was in georgia but he quickly assimilated, ive been down there campaigning within. Ive seen him how easily he moves within that culture down there. Bush was just of a different era and a different culture. And it just, i think culture trumps everything. Trumps ideology, party, everything. Everything is about where you come from and what you represent and what environment you live in. Host reagan gets elected. Newt wins his reagan still doesnt carry georgia in 1980. Its the only Southern State carter carries. He starts to stop himself as a force in the house. Guest yes. Host people hes meeting with on a fairly guest trent lott, jack kemp, cheney to some extent but theres a cadre of real rebel antiestablishment conservative republicans growing in the house. Host these are people who thought, very tired of being in the minority. Guest very much so. Theyve been in the minority for, since the 50s. With the chairmanship and the house banking, the house bank and the House Post Office and all these things that they pretty much host they couldnt get their bills or amendments in order and it wa