Transcripts For CSPAN2 Political Situation In The Congo Part

CSPAN2 Political Situation In The Congo Part 2 November 17, 2017

There are many other causes of violence beyond the electoral political issues. And by realizing democracy and peace do not always go together. The two most important measures today are to increase the United States support to local and bottomup peacekeepers and to include local actors in the drivers. The delaying Holding Elections is only one among many issues that fueled violence in congo and importantly, local conflicts at the village ordistrict level also fuel taextensive violence. So to be clear, yes, national and International Leaders regularly manipulate local arms groups including for electoral purposes but at the same time, local combatants use national and regional attention as a way to pursue their own local goals. For instance, in north and south giggle, they allied with National Leaders in Foreign Military to get control of neighboring land. As a result, congo needs bottomup help in addition to the topdown approach. In other words, im not saying that we should replace the election focused charters with peace Building Measures. Instead, what im saying is we should add local peace servings to this set of options that we use to resolve the conflicts. Increasing the United States support and Technical Support to local peace outfits. We should also recognize that democracy and peace do not always go together. The push towards rapid elections has fueled violence in many other war and postwar environments of course kabila should go and of course congolese people deserve elections and democracy, but in the short term, there may be a choiceto make between the two goals of democracy and peace. And for an activist and diplomat and politician should not bethe one to make this choice. Ordinary congolese people should and this speaks to my last point. Local people have far more relevant knowledge, skills and capacity, contacts and the means to reserve their own predicaments then we usually believe, more than International Actors will ever have. When you look at things that have worked in congo, you see that certain local ordinary citizens have managed to in create islands of peace in the two places. Others have decreased sanctions. And yet others like frank next to me have created a Wide Movement of aggressive. The usual international approach is to ignore these kind of local initiatives. Instead, we should support funds and protect these local initiatives so that we reinforce them. I published a book on how to do that, the book is, to summarize in one sentence, we need to build a local expertise and we need to involve in the design and planningfor International Efforts , not only the lead based in kinshasa but also local leaders and intended beneficiaries. To wrap up, we can help congo establish a sustainable peace and democracy, but to do that we have to look beyond elections and also at other peace building priorities. We also have to give much more on the security and capacity of congolese people and to support bottomup peace Building Measures more extensively. Thank you so much, i look forward to yourquestions. I look forward to your testimony, miss autesserre. Members of the subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to testify. I appreciate your bipartisan interest in the democratic republic of the congo. President kabila is constitutionally mandated to term limits ended but he has used one contrivance after another to delay elections while plunging the country into a level of humanitarian, political and economic crisis that had devastating consequences for the people and the risks destabilizing the subregion. The Us Ambassador to the un nikki haleys recent visit, she pressed kabila to hold elections before the end of 2018. Clearly in response, the Electoral Commission published a new calendar starting december 23, 2018 at the date for president ial elections. The Silver Lining is that the response shows the considerable influence the le government continues to have in kinshasa. Haleys visit and strong messaging signals renewed highlevel engagement on congo. It shows congolese government officials that not only does congress continue to be seized by the political crisis but that the Trump Administration is also watching closely. Yet the same time, the message that elections only need to be held before the end of 2018 was seen by many congolese and getting a free pass for kabila to continue his tactics and stay in power another year despite his lack of constitutional legitimacy. Police officials have blatantly disregarded previous calendars while kabila and his coalition have largely ignored the main terms of the agreement last year. Kabila should be stepping down by the end of this year. Unilaterally extending the time frame, the us runs the rest of reducing credibility among key actors. Yes, the us is willing and able to use its influence now to inensure Fair Elections that reflects the will of the people, it could rebuild any losses. The question now is how far will the us go. Ngsenior us officials delivered messages similar to those of Ambassador Haley at the end of kabilas twoterm limit. That deadline passed, elected Officials Force him to organize elections by the end of 2017. Instead, kabila instead entrenched his hold on power, corruption and repression. Congolese government and Security Force officers went so far as to implement a strategy of chaos to orchestrate violence. Especially in the Southern Region where up to 5000 people have been killed since august 2016. Nearly 90 mass graves are scattered across the region, 600 schools have beenattacked or destroyed and 1. 4 Million People displaced from their homes including 30,000 1fled to angola. In march , two un investigators, michael sharp and an american from kansas and a swedish and chilean citizens were killed while investigating violence in the region. Human rights watch investigations to get government responsibility to the double murder. Predictably, government officials have cited violence is one of the main excuses for why elections would not be held. Kabilas refusal to relinquish the presidency can be explained by the considerable fortune he and his family have a math during his tenure in the millions of dollars in revenue that have gone missing. Such corruption as a leave the government bereft of funds to meet the basic needs of an impoverished population. Hundreds of Government Employees went on strike in recent months including hospital workers who hadnt been paid 2016 this comes at a National Cholera epidemic. Meanwhile, brutal repression rscontinued unabate. X the 34th is shot dead one in 170 people during protests in 2015 and 2016, earlier this year. He forces killed 90 people in a crackdown against a political religious sect. During protests on october 30, Security Forces five people including an 11yearold boyunder the opposition leaders , activists and journalists have been jailed and in july, an unidentified man shot and killed a judge who refused to hand out a ruling against an opposition leader. These actions are very much at the heart of how kabila and his coterie to overcome the crisis. By using all available institutional authorities to squash , silence and eliminate any opposition to his efforts to hold onto power. More protests are planned in the coming days and weeks but citizens human rights activists and opposition leaders have announced the electoral calendar and shameful maneuver by kabila to stay in power. They urge the congolese people to mobilize. It deposed to citizens transition led by individuals who could not be candidates to allow the organization a credible election. There is a real risk of increased violence in the coming months. As things now stand, the us including congress cannot afford to take his eyes off congo, theres too much at stake. First, congress should holdthe branch to account. To urge congress to expand targeted sanctions on family members including Financial Associates in those with serious corruption for those that maintain kabila rule. Other sanctions against officials have had the impact and change the calculus yet additional sanctions are needed that there are real consequences due to the delays. Call for the Immediate Release of all Political Prisoners it with those opposition t leaders in charges to be dropped and continue to support in this environment we also hope he will continue to press for the independent rustication in to the of murders of the when experts to help insure that those responsible are held to account. To date it is far from adequate those responsible for such a heinous crime can escape justice not only in kong go across the world for u. S. And u. N. Have deployed experts. U. S. Can help prevent more bloodshed but time is running now. Stock courageous actions are needed to demonstrate on the congolese people and their aspiration for democratic government. Thank you very much. I will last a few opening questions so with the sanctionsco now clearly you have something indicated professor dizolele made a strong appeal with the first recommendation to kabila family and inner circle. I know the administration is very serious with this course and hope it does not come to it but i do feel it should be done now. By way of background on this panel since the early 80s toto go to south africa we strongly supported apartheid but there is always concern of the impact it would have won the unintended victims with those broad based sanctions. So wholele idea was to single out for those who would benefit in the house sponsor it was amended and was a lot. So the question isnt if it could be done but we will be introducing joined by megatrend but to see very significant progress that this will happen i think by december 28 that is unconscionably long the wait that is more than one year. Side want tos ask all of you because any downside saying that we will not provide funding for the election. And perhaps could unwittingly is a device to say i am out of here. Maybe not just the u. S. But other wooded others would come tumbling down we would hope. Someone to make sure we fully understand the consequencesco. Then it becomes something in the toolbox to say no worriesbe there will not be sanctions now or in the future so they need to be used very prudently and effectively as you said professor dizolele you want it now. But they think it would be very clear. Mr. Chairman i think now is the time for the sanctions they are long overdue they should have been in place 2016 and january. Becausee all love the signs have beenhe there. Were a talking here about targeted sanctions for a specific people talking about the embargo of the u. S. In the president s last days had a similar situation so by then the west led the charge and the sanctions were imposed on him and received a the legion of merit one of the highest honors but when the time camehe we put a sanction on him and his assets and his children and to the children overseas steading in canada and his son was denied his visa and it was very effective that way. But n today if we are so naive to except that kabila will hold elections next year then we have not learned anything over the last 16 years and the joke is on us. Because kabila only in the stands the language of force. So if you want us to lead it is only through force. Just to target specifically them and most of the time nothing is founded in logic. In fact, that they will not engage it is music to their year. Nobody gets involved. So we should involve the position from kabila perspective. Thank you very much. Also of to what professor dizolele says that system is the way for them to have access or reach into use them in different ways. And though sources and it does show that for example, with the 750 million that would have been enough for the election that is very expensive but to say the sanctions should be now put all of them are businessmen. That surround it kabila. All of them and his associates worked the business so it is the only way of spending troubles but to be able to use those resources and if they can stay in power protecting their natural assets then we lose. So it is important. I have two points. First how the sanctions are used. And specifically what they were saying with the politicals side of the organization and elections. And the other point sanctions should indeed who will leave power but they should be linked to the respect and be aware of humanrights violations. I fullyn agree sanctions should be applied now with the fact the calendar was announced doesnt necessarily mean we are having elections were seeing massive humanrights violations so strong signal should be sent as a very clear tool available to send that signal. We also see how targeted sanctions have had an impact with a senior Security Force officers traveling regularly to the United States with their medical appointments many have homes overseas or their children study in the u. S. Were europe and many come to us asking what can we do to avoid being on the list or how to get off. So it does have an impact in that inner circle with the family members and Financial Associates have been affected so this time is to show this consequences are real. The president does have this authority it is clear with the bill the president through executive order shall impose those sanctions within 60 days to begin in the high level for any responsible undermining the democratic process including officials or commercial facilitators and composite family members also imposing those sanctions with the draft that we are now working on but we are rarely looking at talk is cheap to make sure is backed up by something that is more significant in being the cochair of the House Commission the Political Prisoners have been released over the years may be one or two we are not sure but the point is sanctions work. But they have to be applied. So i will ask a question i asked previously with the two distinguished witnesses from the administration speaking to a the 3. 8 million of the internally displaced which is a catastrophic event anywhere in the world but certainly threepoint 8 million displaced refugees within their ownsp borders. Security has reached 7. 7 million maybe higher estimates but with all the other effects on women and children you pointed out in your testimony that 5,000 have been killed since 2016 and you pointed out the impact that has had with your testimony on the schools 600 schools have been attacked or destroyed and 1. 4 million displaced including 32,000 who have fled to the neighboring angola. As refugees. Predictably government officials are one of the main excuses for 2017 and so to incentive by the use to impose martial law so maybe you can speak to that and that is a perverse outcomes and it is in the government if you want to speak to that . We have interviewed numerous people who have told us about a deliberate strategy that is orchestrating violence and instigating local level conflicts to create more violence and then with those you terrific humanitarian consequences but then we have of threat from the militia groups in the area we also see the manipulation of armed groups in the southwestern kong go with the religious sect possibly to create new violence and is another excuse so it is very perverse in just another signn that we have not seen any signs of real attention of organized elections s. So that the liberal strategy of chaos by the government . Yes. So in terms of delaying through 2018 to be a part of this larger strategy of care if we wait until 2018 that seems more of a flash point with the zone of conflict possibly longer. That is what is most likely to happen. Going from crisis to crisis is the favorite pastime of the regime. And a friend of mine used to work in the system said the boss is especially in rotten situations that theyre like those situations. So this poses a serious risk i think in terms of violence as a strategy but i think now where violence again is used as a strategy i feel that at least it makes those government officials that it puts pressure on them so now we see the violence starts again so without the help of others that they have worked with in the past so i think that strategy of violence but also in january or february or in another region somewhere maybe the go to be used as a reason for the election once again. And that reason is that we were an agreement now everybody is okay at the end of the year but to have those relations next year where we can talk about 2019 so unless it is all delayed action we will never have thee election. But then that is not the election. To exercise additional but you do have the instigation of violence but a lot of the violence is unrelated to theti elections with regionalvi tensions in also local conflicts leading to a traditional power of the highest ranking individual in the ethnic group of the specific area sometimes this leads to that type of issue and sometimes it doesnt so to end the violence but also all of these otherr issues at the same time. So the biggest take away from your own book was very helpful to the subcommittee i do think you have eloquently spoke to that it isis excluded with that inability to appreciate is usa i e. D. Tappingre into the local expertise . So the role of the Catholic Church . And also reconciliation that is important fake based entity food close including shelter and medicine the secular p groups to agree so defaced to really get the army of volunteers that is one of the assets but can you speak to that also the role of the lechurch in the elections i asked the earlier panel will flee that is eliminated moving to incredible free and Fair Elections. They are doing better than we are doing but still clearly it is not enough. We are here in d. C. We know what is best for the people were trying toap help in the congo the parts of thehe world but then when we involve the kong will these people

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