You have done, your family has done, and the service of your sons, all three of them, as well. When i read the book that you wrote the American Family a memoir of hope and sacrifice, what i found it about was not necessarily about a dark time in your life. What i found this back to be about, more about enlightenment for your son, an American Hero fork you, as a student of law, and for your family, as immigrants. And what provided that light, that beacon, what was that torch, i found, based on my reading of the book, was the United States, its people, its culture, and its constitution. And when i you see that right away when you open up the book, and it was funny because when i opened up this book, i thought i got a used book because i saw this, as you open up the first cover and you see some writing and highlights and notes and looks like one of my books because this how i do it. What i realized, this is a copy of your constitution your notes, and so i guess i want to start off with, why did you feel it necessary to have this as the first thing that people see when they open upper book. Guest sure. Thank you. I am in awe of sitting before you, and i want to start with telling you that what your family and your service and your familys service has given us as ordinary citizens, i have watched honorable leon panetta for many years, for his moral, ethical, strong leadership, in all phases of his life in washington, away from washington, and here i am sitting in front of you. What an honor it is. What an honor it is. Im delighted and im glad and im humbled by this coincidence that the person i have admired for moral,th that leadership, and here i am sitting in front of you. So, im humbled. Host thank you. Guest well, the constitution has meant so vary much to me. We tell all that story in detail in the book, that coming from that humble background where no Civil Liberties existed, toys martial law, twice having lived without any liberties, the martial law administrator would decide, stop all the newspapers, no newspaper will be printed. This is a common trait, two things are really common month authoritarian mentalities and the audience can draw the conclusion. One is they dont like free press because free press criticizes them. Second thing is rule of law. They do not like judges. They do not like rule of law. And that had given me such a perspective of not having any Civil Liberties, to having all these dignities, and as we speak further, ill tell you what a moment it was when i went to take the oath of citizenship. I wish every american would at least read the oath of citizenship. It means so very much and speaks the hopeleness, the dignity inside our constitution and bill of rights. So it is that that kept us going to be are continuing to move forward. Host in the book, you said that the constitution is rather dry, understandable. But you marvel, absolutely marvel, at few of its amendments, if not all of them. But there were a couple that stood out to you, number one, you see it first thing, amendment 14, civil rights, and you go on to use in the book an analogy about your time visiting a department of Motor Vehicles. Explain that. Guest i had just arrived and i was told that i should hurry up and go to get my drivers license. So i took the bus from where i was living in houston, texas, and i go to Motor Vehicle and i go inside and theres people, everybody come income, taking the number and sitting down, and this is a few days have arrived in this country, and i had read about rule of law. Equality of treatment, that under rule of law, you are everybody is treated equally, and i am seeing it with my own eyes now, how everyone is treated equally. Everybody comes in gets the number, sits down, waits for the turn, gets things done and out you go. That wasnt the case, i didnt come with that background. I came from the background that if you are third cousin to minister or the governor, you dont stand in line. Lines are for ordinary people. You go from the back door you get your things done sometimes things are done and sent to your home. Having that concept and having read what rule of law means, i was just in awe and some of my american friends laughed at that explanation, but that is the display of rule of law of this blessed country. And rest of the world, believe me, why saving our democracy, protecting it, making it strong, is so important at this timement the rest of the world comes to learn these values, value of rule of law, equality of dignity, due process, and we are wellserved by keep these values strong and being fully aware that there is a risk we can lose all of this. Its guaranteed, these rights are inalienable, to which i say, but these are not selfexec torry. We make it selfextorry. We go to the court and get them immigrant meted again. So it is with that hum humble beginning of rule of law i dime america iwas honored to watch the inauguration of president obama, the second inauguration, in which he said, one of my favorite quote, although or rights are not selfevident, theyre not selfexecuting. In regards to the rule of law, another part that you pointed out, the First Amendment you pointed out one of the the first line of the First Amendment, Congress Shall make no law. Why did that stan out for you . Guest i am a student of world constitutions. I took that brought me to declaration of independence was comparative study of world constitution. I studied four constitutions, and we tell that story . Great detail in the book, but no other constitution in the world and implore america to read one more time the first five words of the First Amendment, and they tell the whole story where these dignities, human dignities, enshrined in our constitutions, stand in the conscious and in the fabric of the nation, is Congress Shall make no law. Five words, they speak so clearly about the nation, about the forefathers emphasis on some human dignities, i call them, freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly. These are the golden nuggets of our bill of rights, and it is that implore that no other constitution has most constitutions have parliament will have this right, parliament can do this, parliament is authorized to do this, National Assembly can too this. No other constitution says, Congress Shall make no laws. So sacred. So sacred by these five words, rights that are listed. Host exactly. Now, clearly, based on what read in the book and just listening to you right now, you are a constitutional scholar, but where did that smart where diyou first study first meet the constitution of the United States . Guest 1972, long time ago, second year law student. But the way im not a constitutional scholar. Im the beneficiary of the dignities enshrined. Thats why im so passionate about these values that are listed in our documents and our founding documents. This is 1972. Im second year law student. I have taken a course titled compare of studyofthe world constitution constitution of ussr rush russia now, and then the germany and the great britain, and then the out there. Were no materials do the material from the course i brought from book stores in the bus to my dormitory room and i placed them on the table, and i am standing in my eyes go to the very first page and the very first line is listed, declaration of independence. I was taken aback. You dont declare your independence. Independence is given when the colonists, when the king decides that i have nothing to gain from these people anymore. Let them free. And that whats history of subcontinent and most of the colonized word, some struggle, some begging, some protests, but no one declares independence. Read the history of decolonization and you will come to appreciate the spirit of the forefathers of this blessed nation. They declared their independence. In 1338 words of to declaration of independence. 18 grievances are listed. Worth reading one more time. And so that was my first i stood there and i read it, half understanding english wasnt my strong suit. I read it and the more i read it, the more in awe i was that, why did the rest of the world this is 1972, declaration of independence, the summary was written, drafterred by thomas jefferson, and five others that finalized the declaration of independence. Why did we have to wait . This nation declares itself independence in so early in 1774, the drafting of the independence is being discussed in the nation, 1776, were declaring our independence. The rest thief world waited so long. What a spirit of this nation. Another nat moment could only dream and remain in awe. Didnt have the caliber or courage to even think that maybe one day ill go to see this nation. These people, that have come from this background and it is for that reason that i am still in awe of this great nation, and implore every american to read your founding documents. So that we are firm that all the challenge that our democracy faces today so that we are aware where we have kole from and what our heritage is for these values. Host you had always had incentive to study. You grew up in pakistan in a town north of lahore, correct . Guest yes. Host somebody what very influential and had a quote that motivate you to study more. Who was that. Guest that was my blessed grandfather, and he always said that to me, that a person is not complete unless his education or her education is complete. He always reminded me that continue your education and so that was at the foundation of this learning more and learning more regardless of the difficulties and lack of resources. I tell to my children always that lack of resources, no excuse not to continue to move forward to complete your education, and here we are, just blessed to have had that instruction at very early age. Host you studied the constitution in pakistan. Then you were able to learn about American Culture in dubai. Explain that. Guest so i arrive in dubai very few dollars in my hand, did not have a proper place to rest. I arrived friday so that i could get accumulated. Now im meeting the american generosity and americas true america on monday morning. I had slept on bare floor just the walls and the roof and tall was my bed sheet and the suitcase mays pillow and i had represented a small room from the cab driver. So i go to work, and this american executive of the oil company, allen, greats me, and i tell that whole story in the book in great detail, but he takes me to this room and he said, khizr, this all of these files, we all need to put them together, organize them. This is an American Oil Company that is operating in dubai, just starting, and we need to hire so many people and so many expatscoming inch hes giving me all these instructions and im to start organizing everything in that office. He looks at me within five minutes and said you look tired. Where you been staying . And i was embarrassed to tell hmm i told him i have rented a room for a couple of days and im staying there and he continues to look at me and he said, okay. He picks up the phone and makes a phone call, and in about 30 minutes or so, a lady walks in and she introduces herself. Im mrs. Allen. Now, im facing the graciousness of america. It is so deeply engraved on my heart and in my soul that every time i think of america, i think of ellen and lisa. Lets go your home, and im embarrassed. Thought they wanted know take them to the room im staying, and im trembling inside that i would be so embarrassed to show them where im staying. But they said, no, come. So we walk and get in the car and and they drive. The company had rented several apartments to accommodate expatses that were coming from all ports of the world to work for this company in dubai. So we get to a building, and they open door of an apartment with the key, and i walk in, and i had never seen such a luxurious place. It had three pillows on the bed. It has toggled. It had plates and spoons and forks and kettle on the stove, and then lisa opens the door of the refrigerator and shows me theres bread and butter and jam and all. I just could not believe that this is happening. This is my first exposure, first interaction with america, and they said that children, youre khizr, youre tired, rest today and well start tomorrow. Closed the dispore they left, and i was so humbled, so grateful, even today i begin to lose my composure when i think of their generosity, their kindness. They didnt care they didnt owe me anything at all. For me that is what america had been, is, shall remain, generous. Genuine. Purehearted. Kind. Accepting of others. It is that has made me such a great citizen of this nation. Host now, allen and lisa, they gave you a the job, the house, a car, i think even gave you his office as well as one point. Also gave you Something Else that i think is interesting. Your appreciation for certain type of music. Is that correct. Yes. This is first time in working in dubai, and i am to take drilling superintendent to the Immigration Office for some matters, and i get in his car, and he starts the car, and theres music playing that begins to make sense to me, and he wants to turn it off and and i said dont turn it off, let me listen. The first time im listen ago the Country Music, and i have fallen in love with that and its been just amazing that how i could understand and how i could relate to those stories through Country Music that was being told, so that was first time that i heard the americas Country Music. Host the generosity you experienced from americans as well as your study of its laws and constitution, also helped in a decision, sort of i guess a conflict between your wife and you about where you go next to study. You had been accepted to harvard. You wanted to go to america, but our wife thought you were going to england. How did that decision what was the result of that . Guest it was the reason was that being colonized, everyone went to the masters homeland, meaning to the britain to educate, so that you can learn a little more and then come back and pursue whatever career you wish to pursue. That was the trend among anyone that went to study abroad, and they were very few people that were coming to the United States, but in the deep dawn in my subconscious was this love of declaration of independence. I wanted to be there. I wanted to see how these people what they have that had made them then so long ago so special, so exceptional to the world. They were not depending on their military might or on their financial or economic might and all that. They were mighty, they were depending on the ideas, ideas of Human Dignity, ideas of uplifting. It was deep down in my soul and in my conscious and subconscious was that aspiration i had gotten after reading these documents. But my wife dish said if i could afford i would go to out. She said, but, it is better market if you study in england and we go back and we settle there and you could do so much better in your career because thats what most lawyers did from pakistan, from india, from subcontinent, came and did the lawyer and came back and had a Better Future. But story we agreed i will come to the out. It required some convincing. But she agreed. She had been my support and my strength from the very first days since i had met her. Host exactly. When i read the book, it reminded me a lot of my family, and the sense that my grandfather came here in 1921, by himself. He came over on a ship. The providence. And i was able to take my two daughters to ellis island and read the ledger of that ship, and i saw first of all in first class, there were 100 people, in second class, there were 200 people. He was in steerage with 1800 other people. Then you read down and it said money on hand, five dollars. And it said, occupation, and it listed him as a peasant. He were always told that my father made its point to ask my grandfather in front of us, why did you leave the nope and come to the unknown . Why did you take that huge risk, not knowing anybody, not knowing where you were going, never having been to america, why did do you that . And his answer was always the same. Very consistent. And that was to give his children and his grandchildren a better life. And that is where i have come to learn that is the american dream. When i rad you book, i loved how you talked about you had that silver samsonite suitcase and had 200 decide, which was not much at that time. No where to live. You didnt know anybody. Why did you take that risk . Guest its the story of all immigrants, all immigrants. I briefly digress here. When i read the declaring even today when i read the declaration of independence, the grievance number seven speaks volume of the spirit of immigration. Why our forefathers wanted immigration, and they wanted immigration to because immigrants contribute so very much to the nation for its prosperity to its wellbeing, and the king was limiting the immigration anyway. My fascination and my as separation was that i want aspiration was want to come to this nation see with my own eyes how this great nation has come together, as lived under those principles and dignities. I did not come their see Tall Buildings or more cars or other mights that america has and will have, god willing. I came to see how, based on these principles, a nation has come together and has become a beacon of hope nor rest of the world remember that is what america has meant to us and remains a beacon of home for us, that there is beacon of hope for us that there is Better Future for immigrant and their generation after generation. It is with that hope and that aspiration that i came and immigrants come to this land. So, our story in the book is a tribute to that spirit of immigration. Immigrants, people say sometime in conversation that this is a inaguration of immigrants. I say, but more, this is the nation of the spirit of immigration. The spirit of immigration is to make your life better, many your generations life better. Who wouldnt want to have that spirit among its nation to make life better . Host what i admire is that you said that you werent satisfied with just putting your feet on the ground here. Why is that . Guest well, same teaching of my grandfather, that a persons life is not complete unless you further your education. So once i came and his instruction always had been, which is my moto, that lack of resource is n