Dr. , tatum, we are talking to you about a book that was written 20 years ago, why is that . We are talking about a book that i wrote first 20 years ago and i i have revised and updated which was releasedleased in sep. This book in some ways is a new book because theres a lots of clang in the last 20 years. Was it your idea to update it or the publishers, did they come to you . The publishers approached me about it but i was thinking about it because i wanted to write a book for young people of the 21st century. Why are all black kids sitting together in the cafeteria . That conversation is really a conversation about identity, Identity Development which unfolds in adolescent. One of the things we know is that racial Group Membership is an important part of identity particularly for young people who are targeted by racism in our society. Sitting together can be a source of support, it can be a way of finding affirmation of identity, a way of providing a buffer against the racism of the society thats impacting you, but when i talk about this book, i always like to underscore the fact that it has a long title. Really the book is about understanding of what racism is on our society, how it impacts all of us not just African American use but children of all backgrounds, people of all backgrounds and how that influence how we think about ourselves and other people and ultimately what each of us can use to interrupt the cycle of racism. Before we leave the cafeteria, anybody gone to Public Schools knows what we are talking about, did you sit at the black table . When i was growing up in massachusetts, i did not sit at the black table because there wasnt one, it was a predominantly White Community and i was the only black girl in my class, so for that reason, there was no black table for me to sit at but when i went to college, i was very eager to sit at the black table to connect with other African Americans students at that institution, so it was very much a part of my coming of age as a young adult. So you sat at the black table. I did. Would white people approach the table. Not usually and if you talk to white students today they will say that they dont, however, i think its important to point out that while the black kids are sitting together in the cafeteria the white children are also sitting together as are the latinos and as are the asians and that separation is part of an Identity Development process but its also a reflection of how schools are structured because, for example, in racially mixed schools today and there arent that many of them because theres still a lot of School Segregation but as racial mixed schools today often in high school, theres tracking or what we call ability grouping where the ap, the advanced placement or honors classes are largely made up of white students, the other populated by black and latino students, which classes youre in will determine where you sit. Dr. Tatum, is it a good thing that all the black kids are sitting at the black table or when i entered a raciallymixed school and teacher or principal ask me the question, i often respond to a question and i am going put it back in that way, theres nothing wrong with connecting with people with whom you feel a common bond, shared set of experiences, but the question we need to ask is, what are we doing during the school day in classrooms to give students a chance to learn how to connect across lines of difference, so its not should they sit together or not, its how do we both affirm the identities of those students in way that is have allowed them to have the bonding but also create structured opportunities in the school for kids to learn thousand connect across line of difference, recognizing that theyre not growing up in the same neighborhood, we still have neighborhood segregation, often they are not in the same school because we still have School Segregation but in 21st century if youre going to be an effective adult you need to know how to connect with people different from yours, thats true for kids of color and also true for white students. Are schools still for the majority segregated . Yes, they are and that is often surprising to people. Here we are more than 60 years after brown versus board of education, but for a variety of reasons that i write about in my book, we have had resegregation, school start today desegregate in 70s and 80s, over the last 20 years theres been a desegregation happening. Why . The main reason has to do with Supreme Court decisions, Supreme Court decisions that have eliminated some of the ways we desegregate. So Supreme Court decisions that have removed Court Supervision over busing, Supreme Court decisions that have said you cant use race as a characteristic as youre considering school assignment. All of the that in k12 Public School space means that the strategies for bringing kids from one neighborhood to another are limited. At the end of the day, we will always have segregated schools as long as we continue to have segregated neighborhoods. If we want to desegregate our schools the best way to do is to desegregate neighborhoods and that hasnt happened yet. As resident of atlanta, do you live in an integrated or desegregated neighborhood . I would say i do. I actually live in part of atlanta that is probably a majority white area but certainly it is a diverse area in is sense that i have white neighbors, i have black neighbors, i have asian neighbors, it is a diversed community. But unusual in that way. The subtitle of the book is other conversations about race. Yes. Are we we seem to be having multiple conversations, National Conversations about race in this country. Yes. Are we doing it in the right way in your view . I think the real problem we have in terms of having conversations about race is that those conversations are not sustained. We tend to have them in an episodic way, theres something in the news, we are talking about it. Often in a very heated way but the constructive dialogue that leads to deepening understanding and beneficial relationships across lines of difference in ways that motivate action to dismantle the systems of racism in our society have yet to be sustained in the way i think we need them, one of the things i where about in the book is for people who want to have those conversations those sustained conversations, some examples on places where its being done and how you might go about doing it. Give us an example. One of the places is atlanta and i lift up an example in atlanta called the atlanta friendship initiative. Initiative started by two men, one white and one black bringing people together across lines of difference and inviting people to connect with someone they wouldnt otherwise know and spend time get to go know them in way that is deepen their understanding of somebody elses experience. Ideally when that happens those people are then motivate today take action in ways that will benefit those other people whoever those others are. Isnt it in atlanta also a woman started a meet group called meet a black person or Something Like this . I think that was in atlanta, i dont know if youre familiar with that. Im not familiar with that one. There is another organization i recently learned about not based in atlanta but meaningful the Bridge Builder about how to bring people together across lines of difference to engage with each other in ways that will ultimately lead to antiracism action. In your experience, which group thinks most about race is it white people, black people, latinos . I say that whenever you are the target of something youre going to be much more aware of it than those who are not targeted by it. So anyone who is targeted by racism is going to be thinking about it because they have to think about it as part of their daily lived experience and figure out how to navigate barriers that racism provide. So, of course, people of color are more conscious of race in the society because they are the targets of it just as women are more likely to be aware of sexism in our society than men or just as people who identify as lgbtq are going to be more aware of heterosexual. Is there any irony on the fact that youre writing to get along on how the get along better with races . I dont think so. One of the things that i say about spellman in particular is that diversity comes in all forms. So just because youre having experience of diversity within the context of that community and there are something very empowering for young women of african decent to be able to come to a school and be able to say, this place was built for me and im going to be a decenter of that educational experience but even as we are affirming them and empowering them to do whatever they choose to do, we are thinking about when i was president , we were thinking about how to make sure that the students were learn to go connect with people different from themselves which was one of the reasons why we had a Global Initiative and i know that my successor dr. Campbell has continued that initiative, very excited to know that women are traveling the world understanding that they belong anywhere not just on that campus. What does the College President do . College president s are the chief representatives of their institution. We might call some people use the phrase living logo. Representative of the institution and certainly you want to advance the mission of the institution in all the ways that you can including fundraising, of course, but its not just about asking people for money, its also about making sure that the story of your institution is being told and told well. Is there anything you took out of the original version of why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria . There are some things that have been changed for sure. This book is about 150 pages longer than the original and one of the chapters that had to be completely rewritten was the chapter of about affirmative action, for example. You know, the state of affirmative action 20 years ago very different than the affirmative action today and in the same way i really had to expand the sections to have book that deal with latino population, the Asian American population, the native american population, the multiracial student population, these are population that is have grown dramatically over the last 20 years and i wanted to be sure that those children will see their experience represented as well. Being the only black person in your high school, what was that experience like, how did it hurt you and how did it benefit you . Well, i will say growing up in a small new england town as i did, my family moved there in 1958, my father was the first African American professor at Bridgewater State college and had privileged experience. Everyone know me as dr. Daniels daughter and i was a very good student. The one thing that i will say thats benefited me was that i never had a sense that i could i was always very confident in my academic capacity because i was competing with white students and was up at the top of my class and so i knew that i could do anything that anybody else could do. In that sense it was a benefit but in a negative sense, the challenge for me growing up in that environment was a sense of social isolation at times and so when i was able to leave, went off to college i was very happy to join other black students at the table when i got to wesley. Former president of Spellman College and the author of this book. Why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria . Thank you for please join me in welcoming professor campbell to the