Good evening. Im larry temple. As chairman of the lbj foundation, its my true privilege to welcome all of you to this program tonight. I happen to think that the lbj library has set a pattern or is setting a pattern. Three weeks ago we had two stars on this stage; bob schieffer, moderation, in conversation with former secretary of state madeleine albright. Well, tonight weve got two more stars on this stage, john avlon and Mark Updegrove. Johnjohn avlon is a true risingr in this country in the media and journalism world. John got his start as a speech writer for Rudy Giuliani both when he was mayor of new york and later as a president ial candidate. John avlon today is the editorinchief and managing director of the daily beast, but hes way more than that. He is a very active writer in this country. Every major magazine has seen one of his pieces. Moreover, hes on television all the time. You can look at cnn, you look at msnbc, you can look at pbs, you can look at cspan, and youll see john avlon. I will also tell you he is a prolific writer of books. Hes written multiple books. The one thats most prominent, the one thats most spotlighted is about washingtons farewell address. And he reminds us that thats truly topical today. Because in his farewell address, washington warned this country against excessive partisanship, greedy selfinterest and foreign powers that might affect our elections. [laughter] now think about that. [laughter] if thats not topical, i dont know what is topical. [laughter] i will also say that john got started to say fame, maybe notoriety because he has been blacklisted by president trump. [laughter] [applause] i got a chance to see john avlon on the Stephen Colbert show on monday night of this week. He was a star there too. But he said something that resonates very strongly with me. What john said that night is he perceived his duty, his responsibility as a journalism expert he didnt call himself an expert, but he is as a journalist to call a lie a lie and a fact a fact. And i wish that there were more people like him with that same attitude. I think well all see a long time ahead john avlon on the public stage of this world. And i think well all be glad that we met him on this stage tonight. Now, let me tell you about the other star. Ill bet all of you think you know Mark Updegrove. Those of you that have been coming here for many years have seen him on this stage with the possible exception of harry middleton, Mark Updegrove has been on stage more than any other human being, period. He was here as the indomitable director of the lbj library from 2009 until he left last february. But he was very prominent before he came to this library. He was a historian on the presidency that was well known throughout the country. He had been the editor of newsweek, he had been president of time in canada, and hed written two books on the presidency, one of them called second is acts second acts saying what some president s did after they left the presidency. The other book was called baptism by fire of what happens with president s that come into office at time of crisis. Now, Lyndon Johnson, i heard chastise himself once about the fact that Lyndon Johnson wasnt in either book, but in spite of that, he was picked to be the director of this library, and we were ever wonderful to have him. He set a new standard. I will tell you, and its not hyperbole and its not texas bragging when i say there are 13 president ial libraries, and during his tenure here he was widely known and respected as the single best, the single best director of any president ial library. [applause] and mark left his mark on this library in so many different ways. The highlight probably is the civil rights summit in 2014 in which we had not one, not two, not three, not four, but five president s; president carter, president george h. W. Bush, president clinton, president george w. Bush and president obama. All were on this stage. Never in the history, in the history of this country had there been five president s in a subsequent program anytime, anywhere for any reason. Mark made that happen, and it is the hallmark of the success that he had here. And then last year, in 2016, the vietnam war summit was a program that was comparable to the one he did on civil rights. I have said that i think there are a rare few people in this world that are visionary, that are creative, that know how to come up with an idea thats new and different. There are also a small number of people that know how to implement an idea, implement a program. And those are normally two different people. Mark updegrove is both. He knows how to come up with a whole new creation and then knows how to implement it. And hes that rare individual. He left to become the director, the ceo of the museum, medal of honor museum, and he still serves in that capacity. But he also has written even more books on the presidency. He wrote indomitable courage about hardship done johnson Lyndon Johnson which is widely regarded as a good insight on president johnson because it was taken from interviews and other discussions of people that knew president johnson. And then he wrote the book about the civil rights summit, destiny of democracy. Well, hes gone on to the write about two other president s, the two bushs, the last republicans. Its wonderful to have him back. We miss him, and i just ask you to welcome to this stage john avlon and Mark Updegrove. [applause] how yall doing . [applause] so weve got a little role reversal going on, because marks usually the one sitting in this chair [laughter] but it is a total honor and flight to be here tonight. Delight to be here tonight for my friend marks unbelievable new book, just out this week. Thank you. It is a wonderful portrait of american politics and power but also the personal bonds of two extraordinary americans, two president s which you frame as a love story. And it is. Its really profound. And ive got to say its a notsosubtle contrast to some of the things going on in our country right now. [laughter] but well get to that. [laughter] how did the idea come to you to write this book, and how did you land it . Because, you know, thats a difficult negotiation, i imagine. Well, ill answer your question, john, its a very good one. I just want to first of all, i want to thank you all for being here. Its so great to be home. I want my chair back, but [laughter] its so good to see so many old friends, and the days i spent at this library are really the best of my career, and its just wonderful to be back home in many respects. [applause] thank you to my dear friend larry temple for that gracious introduction. It can only go downhill from here, larry. [laughter] and thank you to my dear friend, john avlon, for coming in from new york city to do this interview. Larry mentioned that john was on the Stephen Colbert show earlier this week, which he was. There was a bit that john colbert did about my book last monday night, a week ago from monday, in which he took the cover and said this is the bushs looking lovingly at Donald Trumps poll numbers [laughter] among other things. [laughter] and it was this great little bit that he did. It was wonderful for a couple of minutes, and then i thought i was on the so much the world. And then john is a guest on colbert, and i said, that sun of a gun son of a gun oneupped me. If you get a chance to google john avlon and Stephen Colbert, youll see his just wonderful hit on the Stephen Colbert show. Thank you. And you get a great sense of what a great mind we have in john avlon. To answer your good question, john, this was a story that needed to be written. This is the, you know, weve only had one other father son president in the history of the United States, john adams and John Quincy Adams. And there was 24 years, nearly a quarter of a century, between the presidencies of those two men. John adams was in his last 16 is months of life when John Quincy Adams was in office. He was in quincy, massachusetts, a threeday stagecoach ride make that a sixday stagecoach ride away from washington. So he really wasnt able to be in washington to be any kind of influence on his son, sons presidency. But george h. W. Bush was a spry 76 years old [laughter] when his son took the office. Again, he had just been there eight years before, and he was in a position to be a real influence on his sons life. So this is a story that needed to be told. And 41 agreed to do it if 43, george w. Bush, agreed to do the book. I wasnt sure whether he would say yes or no. I went up to dallas. I knew george w. Bush a little bit. He took the meeting, and i was shocked in the beginning of the meeting he said ive decided this story needs to be told, and youre the guy to do it. I was so unprepared, i didnt have a tape recording device. [laughter] and he sat there and put his feet up on the desk, and he fingeredded an unlit cigar, and he started talking about his dad. And i realized there was so much to him that was a mystery about his father, particularly his fathers storied early years when he went to war as an 18yearold, signed up for the navy to get into world war ii at 18, was in the Pacific Theater and shot down when he was 19. His life was spared, but the lives of his crew mates were not, and he realized that there was some purpose that he had on earth that he was spared and his friends were not. He went decided to forgo a family pass to the riches of wall street and go to the oil fields of odessa to make his way in the oil business. Bake a hud at became a husband at 21, became a father soon after. Lost his daughter, his second child, before he was 30 years old. So these are amazing years that ushered him early into manhood. And george w. Bush really hadnt talked to him a lot about it. So it was a wonderful privilege to get this story out of both of them in the intimate way that they were willing to tell it. And just the process of getting people to unpack, because these are, you know, for two figures who have this historic throwaway, they are not particularly given to reflection or psychological rumination. They really reject it. They seem to be very in the moment, its not particularly planned out. Theyve always rejected the idea of a dynasty. How did you get them, and what are your favorite stories about getting the interviews that you did to get them to reveal . Because they are remarkably candid, unfiltered comments. I mean, some language we cant use in front of a family crowd. You know . But its, you got them to really be reflective and candid, and what were some of your favorite interviewing stories about them . You know, it was i liked, again, the intimacy. Yeah. I think they were they realized the story needed to be told. In some ways, they were revealing things about each other that the others didnt know. And that was the amazing thing. I would tell sometimes 43 something, and his dad would say, oh, thats interesting. I didnt know that. Theyre, as you said, john, theyre famously circumspect. George w. Bush, sometimes when he was getting introspective, would say, well, this is sort of psychobabble, but with or and then he would tell me something that was particularly revealing. I remember one conversation with george h. W. Bush in his very small office at kennebunkport, and he was sort of getting hard of hearing. It was just the two of us in the office. He was in his wheelchair, and our legs were touching behind the desk in his office, and he was talking about what he would have done with iraq if he were president when his son was president. This is pretty heavy stuff for an historian and, of course, thats the subject that we all speculate about, would 41 have done what 43 would have done. And he said, well, in the final analysis, yeah, i think i probably would have done that. Its hard to tell, but i think so. Hes sort of laconic at this stage of life, but i wonder is that the answer from a former commander in chief or answer of a father who wants to protect his son. Yeah. Im not sure he really would have done what his son did, but i think he was being protective. At that moment when he was thinking about his sons actions with the war in iraq, i think he was being protective. The extraordinary loyalty and this isnt kind of a family contriveance, right . This isnt kennedys dont cry. Love really is a word they use a lot, and loyalty. And the family values not in the political expedient way of deploying that term, but the real family values they embody. W. Talking about unconditional love from his father, that character and service and humility really matter, civility matters, the idea of responsibility that comes with power, that all of that flows from the father, Prescott Bush. How do you codify that tradition in the family and then contrast it with some of the values we see in our Politics Today . Because, to me, it is stark. Yeah, its dramatically different. The bushs, there is a family ethos. And its palpable. Right. When youre around the bushs. I think Prescott Bush, as you mentioned, john, he stands for civility and decency and putting service above self. And that was something that was passed through the bush family. George h. W. Bush talks often about the lessons that he learned though at his mothers knee. His father was a great influence in his life, and im not sure he ever felt like he measured up to his dad in many ways, which is remarkable for the 41st president of the United States to say. But he talks frequently about his mother, and she would often say, george, dont be a brag attorney owe, you know . Talk about the team, george. I dont care how many home runs you hit, george, how did the team do . Did you win . Because if you didnt win, its a moot point. And so that humility that is really the hallmark of the bushs in so many respects is clearly lacking in today. And not just from our commander in chief. Its lacking in our Public Discourse to a large extent. In the age of social media, its inherently selfaggrandizing. But we talk about the father son, if i could just talk about that relationship for one sec yeah. Theres this great story that the elder bush told me about being with his son in midland when his son was about 3 years old, when george w. Buzz 3 years old. Was 3 years old. And apparently, he resulted in a fit of temper about something as theyre walking along the streets. And george w. Starts flailing away, almost cartoon style like a win milker you know . His arms windmill. His arms are just going 360 degrees. And hes trying to hit his dad. And his dad is keeping him at bay [laughter] by just putting his palm on his flushed forehead until he tuckers himself out. And then he just stopped, and they walked along again. Laugh and in a way, its a metaphor of the reckless, you know, the young and reckless days of george w. Bush because in some ways he tried to land a blow [laughter] with his dad and merv did. And ultimately, they just sort of walked on. His father always had faith that he would do the right thing ultimately and wouldnt bring up the, that illtempered moment, you know . But theres also, you know, let me press you on the fathering and the parenting, because theres some wonderful details in the book. Moments where you could see h. W. Leading by example. One example is w. Walked off a summer job a couple days early, and, well, you tell the story because it apparently made a big impression on w. In terms of a parenting style. And, again, its a future president parenting another future president. Its both relatable and inherently historic. Yeah. And it goes back to sort of the story i just mentioned as a metaphor. Yeah. George w. Bush worked as a roughnecker in west texas, and he made a considerable amount of money. He had agreed to work for, say, eight weeks, walked off the job in his seventh week because he wanted to spend time with his girlfriend. And he goes to see his dad, and his dad said you didnt honor the commitment that you made. Im ashamed of you. Im disappointed. And george w. Bush walks out of his dads office disconsolate. Hes disappointed his father. That was his fathers greatest weapon, to talk about how disappointed he was at any given point. He wasnt particularly emotional at any point, he never yelled at his kids, he never hit his kids, there was no Corporal Punishment in the bush home, but that expression of disappointment was the best thing that he could do to sound a message that said straighten up and fly right. So that happens. He leaves his fathers office, and then he gets a call from his dad later on that afternoon, and he said can you and kathy, his girlfriend, come to the astros game tonight . I have a couple of tickets. So he expressed his disappointment, but he also welcomed him right back into the fold. And that faith that he had in his son to ultimately do the right thing never waned. Yeah. I love that that is the story that he carries with him. Theres another fascinating one too where his mother barbara, they have a family intervention because he busts him for smoking at 17, and h. W. Weighs in. H. W. Weighs well, barbara bush, they take him out to dinner. Hes at that point 16 years old. And its up in kennebunkport, and george w. Thinks, well, this is a big deal, this never happens. The parents never take me to dinner. And as john said, it was an intervention. Barbara bush said you smoke you smoke [laughter] what are you doing smoking . And george h. W. Says, well, barb, you smoke too. [laughter] then the subject just kind of dies. [laughter] what i love is that sort of, you know, you cant lecture someone for doing something you do yourself, you know . Theres just a bit of yankee, you know, common sense which is lovely. Theres an amazing interview you did with, i mean, the interviews really are extraordinary in the book, but where w. Really rejects in pretty pointed language the idea that he was ever a prodigal son. You know, and that was interesting. There are a lot of misconception ises about george w. Bush and about the relationship that he has with his father. But one is this expedient narrative that he was prodigal son, the neer do well, the one who was never expected to amount to anything and certainly wouldnt be the political heir apparent. That is just dead wrong in many there are aspects of it that are true. But, actually, he was quite auspicious in many respects. One of the things he said to me, and ive got to clean up the language a little bit. Hed said i chased a lot of tail, and i drank a lot of whiskey, but i was never the prodigal because i never left my family. And he never did. He alw