Natural to believe that the personality is a secret to what is going on is a book about the study of power. That is what the suffix to enable him to win at the republican nomination and when at posed a threat to the american a system concern is only secondarily with with in the early parts of the 2000. I started covering the tea what the first origins of the drug crisis. You could already see shaping up space for something dangerous and you could and poland was possible that and i did not know it would be donald trump. I was realize this is what we and you also write so when you under the Trump Presidency how much are you worried how much is it more shake off infections that can kill you if you are are circumstances where right now donald trump is receiving millions of dollars in payments from or not. The countries it has been Good Business didnt have the that congress would do they face in all democratic conference. They held them accountable. There about the there are some that worry about the theory. This is a Hillary Clinton criticism that if you can bait a after your of trump is there one of these about the there is proof to all of these these things are all reported not to the institution but the it poses a bit of a Washington Post thinks you for giving credit to reaffirm there are a lot of noises that are very nervous about how much there he the in the nato headquarters lead a no this is what the president and when does he skip or maybe he just doesnt like being told what expected the question im not sure what youre breaking with the these things come he is and the desire for to with the donald trump could have the vulnerabilities of that one of the things that we need is that this is the effectiveness of democracy across and happen the many of the things that worry up inside. It has been a more levelheaded party sexual the Bernie Sanders primaries sanders and clinton in a lot of the were more misogynistic released and that as one of anti democrat movements. In on the conventional notions of why trump did or did not the wide it is the thing that we at least the nomination. That was the real question is not about donald trump its about above 50 . The Economy Party of the president should win a third is more to it than that. The to resist those things. As a mesmerizing thing. Because trump he was vulnerable. Why did someone who was a normal political actor who was a very brief front runner not the world most charismatic guy. Or someone else. They want less immigration. They are going to need the social security. And then deploy them that as part of the story. The Republican Party and even when the 50dollar bill was a line on the sidewalk in front of you you cannot pick it up. With jeb bush or not. The fix was in. A shredder political character should have seen this is terrible advice because the report said early in the book. The 2012 election. They voted for mitt romney. From everyone under a 55. It was amazing in that you got 47 percent of the vote. Because people did not understand what the republicans were promising to do with their own voters. You might have thought that the reaction was that we need to be a little less dismissive of people that look for wages. And we wanted to be available. Even to those who are now under 55. That moderately tough line. It is as you say its easy to fix a on trump hes on the title of the book. You write in the introduction that is not the story of the truck. They enable and power support and collaborate with donald trump. Who are the enablers. How do you break them down. I start with consents. Those are those whom immediately serve him. Often for the notable reasons. The president of the United States does not want to honor the nato treaty. They are the larger executive branch. Like robert rosenstein. They have never seen this. It seems like a conscientious and not a very imaginative person. Struggling to do the right thing while also mollifying the president. And present. In understanding what a spirit of destruction and in what he is negotiating with. So a lot of people are baffled by this and executive branch. They are trying to follow their traditional roles in the face of the present is unlike anything else. Not insisting on basic things if the president of the night seizes on the payroll the country needs know about it. And its the republican donor league that could use him. And did not understand that he would use them. Did not understand the president has an agenda. The president wants the civil rights bill. The member of the house of representatives wants a damn. And the deal is done. This is the other way around. Donald trump wants all of this. They are the enablers. Those donors who believe that this guy would be the vehicle for achieving what they wanted in the price would be something bearable and finally the enablers im sorry theres one more step. They develop a series of rationalizations and justifications and excuses that they can defend them they attack the opponents. If they cant change the subject they just go quiet altogether. There are in the country these americans in their millions drawn to a radical politics of authoritarianism as a way of achieving what things they want to achieve and then punishing people whom they want to punish. Lets start with the party a little bit. You write that once an office it was not his own cunning that it was the complicity of his allies in the Republican Party and the once great parties into position of almost absolute power over itself. Clearly they thought they were going to get something out of this deal. They have gotten substantial deconstruction of regulations. They are looking for two more of those as they left behind. They couldnt pass legislative restrictions. A very elaborate epas team stream. It is intrusive and burdensome. The big problem will be shutting it down. They got relief from some of the parts and some hope that although they cannot be repealed it could be damaged enough to collapse. They got important favors for the financial industry. And above all the breaking of the Consumer Protection board. It has just been dismantled. Donald trump has his own director serving at the same time. It is paralyzing that body. So i think that is probably more important than to the donor league. There are getting real substantial benefits. One of the things as the Corporate Income lets not minimize how big a deal that is. Who pays. When the stock market goes up 30 on the expectation of a Corporate Income tax. Think the shareholders are getting most of this. If it is going to workers and customers. They should not react to it at all. You write that trump has ripped out the conscious of half of the political spectrum. Did trump do that or would it excavation of the moral conscious begin. You had been inhouse critic of that party for a while. They read a book several years ago about what he viewed as a moral bankruptcy of the party already. When did this begin. The trend begins i think in reaction to disappointment with the economic appointment. In the party began to move in a more radical direction. At exactly the same time that the american middle class for which the Republican Party was getting into bigger and bigger trouble. And especially White America for which the Republican Party again was getting particularly big trouble with the diseases and addiction. And it have moved away from the voters that is the beginning of that. The steps down which the american political system is troubling. I think it is true of both parties that since the end of the cold war they been playing in the political game much more ruthlessly. That is a theme of the book. I dont think we understood at the time how much the cold war limited what the parties did two each other. The country was in a great power of competition. The president had to be respected and respectable. And the parties have a set some of that there. To ensure that the president should lead it. The party competitions come much more savage. And its a person much less necessary. With that mutual toleration. You write also during the first year of trump some of the of the attention has been on the president s bullying or raging. The most radical attack in the first year was attempted by the regular republicans in the house and in the senate. What were those most radical attacks. The huge tax cut. Details to be filled in later. They did all this without hearings. The cost of benefits at the very last minute. They were not will done. Through the tax bill. To this day no one knows the true fiscal costs. They are so complicated. You dont know the answer to that question. Without opponents of the legislation to be heard with expert witnesses of what this would mean. By major pieces of legislation in the past. The people around trump. They showed public letters. They have made it their piece about serving in the white house or ministration. You say that when good people do bad things. They usually have good reason. What role do these people play in hr mcmaster. What we look back on them many of it will be quite tragic. Hes across the river. He is in a giant bureaucracy that has a tremendous power of its own and he is a four star general. To you or me and doesnt mean much. Within their universe that has an overwhelming indifference with nothing more that he needs to accomplish. The sacrifice and these things are the result rewards of the peaceful life. He also knows that he cannot be fired. That would be a conflict. And if fired he cant be replaced because the replacement would have to go through Senate Confirmation here. Something like that can be a real check i think mcmanus has been. He has been made clear how little regard he has. Remember that basement session. He doesnt do it. This came to the Public Domain by accident. Talking to a group of a couple dozen soldiers. In which he begins by saying i will have to tell you that her country is not what it should be right now. That the days we have to get back to being more respectful to one another. And until that happens im asking you just hold to hold the line. It sounds like a description of what he is doing. Other people have less immunity if youre on the same side of the river as the president if your fireball by the president. It does not need to be senate confirmed. If you want things from the president that alters it. I quote in the book. Exchange i head with my good friend eliot cohen great expert on National Defense and he went through a lot of wrestling with his self. You should serve and then he changes mine. In this dialogue with him. My advice to those considering this you need to consider the role whether you are directly serving the president or the National Security and then you need to know yourself into knowhow sure in my that if asked to do something wrong i will just say no. And once you are sure that you will do the right thing consider this. If the president agreed with would have given you the job in the first place. I guess its too early to discern what buckets or categories that you have that. The outstanding bad actors we can already see them. You can see some of the good actors. Rex tillerson is proving to be a disastrous secretary of state but hes also proving to be a non enabler of donald trump is a comp located verdict. There is also a risk you identify to this role you worn in the book that the disregard it may pressure others to intern disregard their own norms of behavior particularly you worry that the military whether it is the retired generals or those serving administration. To be less deferential to civilian control. Give any signs of that materializing. It doesnt get as much discussion as other things in the book. The system in a sense does things. Its seven days and may only with the generals as a good guy. Ive seen the movie. Obviously if he were president right now i think the whole country would be happier. He is in the chain of command. If it is by military escaping thats very dangerous. And it is happening in a lot of ways that one senses but we can be for sure. For example President Trump allows 14 people to read the president s daily intelligence brief. National security the chief of staff basically thats it. Bill clinton let Hillary Clinton read it. Its basically that group of people. That is pure enough people to be able to hold those. With the highly ethical compromise. Crucial secrets. All either because he just wants to show off or some more sinister reason. And you know the president is not very curious how informative is the presence brief today. Information begins to stop flowing. Maybe you get a wink and a nod. Tell the president if he asks you a question you cant lie. Anything sensitive leave it out. The general getting a lot of Operational Authority the mother of all bombs. The president was very proud to tell us that the Theater Command me that better. Its hard to undo those habits. It might be if you are four years of donald trump and his replaced by some George Hw Bush figure and very will informed. They may be able to pull the power of the president back together. Whether he has two terms its always there. As always to mistrust civilians. His outburst about the content for civilian authority. If you have not served you have no right to ask me questions. That is exactly who asks the questions. You set that when trump first came along you describe yourself that he could shake up the party. But you thought he could be solitary for the Republican Party some of its policies and verities now that you have seen donald trump in the Republican Party. What happens to this party after trump. The best Case Scenario there is a decisive lesson. We see this is spreading across so much of the country. There is a sharp lesson. Non democratic methods are not going to be there. Parties easy all over the australian liberals. We accept the rules of the game. We accept the social insurance estate as it was built in the 30 years after world war ii. And private privatesector people not because they are illegitimate or not american because i have a party of theirs. A lot of what democracy is about. Gift to do it one way or another. Thats the most optimistic scenario. The defeats are not so bad. This solution looks workable. Voter suppression and one of the things when i wrote this book one of the things i was an argument with. This is like january 1933 in germany. You cant look at the most spectacular most hideous case of a democratic breakdown in all of political history. Thats not how it can happen. The whole point to modern authorities in its much more economical that you can get this. If you can identify the right 6 of population. That is just as good or better. Youve just as much power with a lot more squawking. In the legitimacy. It turns out you dont have to disqualify a very many people. You dont have to tell anybody what youre doing. You can do it without telling yourself. There is a book out and i think of it in dialogue with your book. They discuss that and they basically say the most likely scenario is think of the United States like it all becomes north carolina. We have seen a lot of moves towards this kind of behavior how do you see them in that kind of scenario. In the previous book with a huge influence on my thinking. I will recommend it to real hardcore people. His central thesis a lot of the success of democracy is their ability to reassure holders of health and power. They do not want to be too much of a threat. I quote this thing. You see on the internet. Your uncles probably send it to you. The sentiment is attributed to a lot of people to come from an opt in. The opposite of the truth. People that possess assets. It means that they will lose those assets. In the way they survived as they become the greater stability of the democratic stability. It freaked them out. Its can take everything for me. To defend what they have they became open to more radical solutions. In the circles of that list. You talked about the concern of intellectuals. What has the rise donald trump done two conservative thought. There is this reapplication of publications. The alienation of power. Do you see that happening among the conservative intellectuals who have not had their peace with donald trump. I hope it well. I dont see any signs that it has happened yet. We are so the point where people are being given the moral asset test. And i am impressed some people that it would not had expected. They are shining in this moment. And are seen enough. That is exciting. About half of those have made their explicit peace. In one of the fiercest critics. The intellectual project i dont see any signs of vitality there. That they would yet understand how vague their ideas are. How much they were solutions from problems. This is my life story. The conservatives and i grew up in the 1970s and 80s. If you have an inflation you know just what to do. And the liberals with the monetary restraint. We know what to do. If you have a challenge from a totalitarian with a lot of crime. We know what to do. If you have deflation and International Chaos in the breakdown of the international order. Then we are a little baffled. We respond all of this by insisting that they suffer from the problems that we do know how to solve and is not suffer from the problems we do not know how to charge. It begins when they can acknowledge new problems that your policy cant do that. I dont see that work being done. I want to say that to the context. That should always be held there. I was not entirely clear where was headed. If they become comes and said that they cannot when democratically they will reject democracy. What does that mean. You will see more more people sing explicitly what Many Republican members of the house have said. I dont think everybody should go. Voting should be difficult. You should have to make an effort. You should not be able to just anybody walking in off the street. The theory of democracy as it is expressed in the series of debates in the civil war. 400 years ago. Has a life to live. That is the idea of democracy. People are not equal in wisdom or aptitude or wealth from the point of view of the meaning o