Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Intelligence Committee Chair Sc

Im executive Vice President of external affairs at the center for American Progress and i have the immense honor of welcoming all of you here today. As we all know Robert Mueller will appear tomorrow before members of congress to detail how the russian government worked to sabotage the 2016 elections and how donald trump and his allies sought to aid, abet and cover up this operation as seemingly at every turn. The president has lied over and over again, and claiming that the Mueller Report found no evidence of collusion and tomorrow the American People will hear what the special counsel actually uncovered. This time around those findings wont only be contained within the margins of the 448 page legal document but this time around the public will hear the fact directly from Robert Mueller himself. Facts which are utterly and unquestionably damning. The Mueller Report describes at least 37 meetings and 272 contacts in total between russia linked operatives in the Trump Campaign. Those contacts extended to the highest echelons of the Trump Campaign and trumps inner circle, including donald trump junior. In fact, Campaign Manager Paul Manafort actually shared internal polling and political strategies within an alleged russian agent. Any proud mp traffic american should have viewed the kremlins operation as an outright assault against the integrity of our democracy. Yet, not a Single Member of the Trump Campaign reported their interactions to the fbi. Instead, trump himself publicly and enthusiastically encouraged the russians to intensify their attacks. Since the election the president has tried to derail any attempt to expose his extensive pervasive and ongoing relationship with russia. Fortunately, the Progressive Committee has remained relentless in uncovering the truth. Late after Trump Took Office our sister organizations in the center from your can Progress Action Fund launched an initiative called the mascot project which has performed Critical Research and tracking the full extent of the president s many contacts with russia. The moscow project has also deconstructed every aspect of this tangled web for elected officials, members of the media and the american public. It is even launched a podcast called the asset that is climbed the ranks of the apple topped 100 charts. It is proud of everything this team has accomplished under the leadership of senior fellow [inaudible] in his colleagues and moving forward the moscow project will continue to pursue and pursue its mission until justice is finally and fully realized. Tomorrow it will be clearer than ever before that the Mueller Report did not mark the end of the investigation but only signaled the beginning of the next phase. Now, it will be up to congress to hold donald trump accountable for his actions. Today we will hear from one of the leaders standing at the very forefront of this effort, congressman adam schiff. As one of our countrys most prominent voices on Foreign Affairs congressman schiff has worked to safeguard the interest of america and our allies to advance human rights across the globe and to expand opportunities for our nations veterans. He is also a former federal prosecutor who serves as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and one of the two committees that will host the special counsel during tomorrows hearings. We are so grateful that congressman schiff could make time to join us this afternoon just a few hours before what promises to be a truly Pivotal Moment in american history. Now i have the pleasure of turning things over max bergman, director of the mark moscow project, who will moderate our conversation with congressman schiff. Please help me in welcoming them to the stage. [applause] thank you for coming and especially congressman. What i know is a very busy day for you considering what is going to take place tomorrow. I wanted to start my questioning by actually quoting you and asking a question that you asked yourself on march 20, 2017 and that was the day was the first House Intelligence Committee hearing and a day known for james comey announcing there was indeed, an fbi investigation into the Trump Campaigns ties to russia. It gave a press into Opening Statement in which you outlined what we knew at the time on march 20th and when you asked is it possible that all of these events and reports are completely unrelated and that nothing more than an entirely on happy coincidence and you said yes, it is possible but it is also possible and maybe more than possible that they are not coincidental and not disconnected and that the russians used the same techniques to corrupt u. S. Persons that they employed in europe and elsewhere. We simply do not know not yet and we owe it to the country to find out. Two and half years later what did you find out . Was this all just a random coincidence . No, it clearly wasnt. If i knew then that we would find evidence in writing of the russians offering dirt on Hillary Clinton is part of what was described as the russian government effort to help mr. Trump and that the Trump Campaign at the highest levels including the president s own son would say that they would love to get that help and even suggest the best time would be late summer and then set up a secret meeting to receive that if you had told me that this would be in writing i would have thought you were crazy and no one is stupid enough to put that in writing. But, in fact, that is exactly what we would later learn to if i knew the Campaign Chairman of the Trump Campaign was giving internal polling data discussing political strategy in the midwestern states at the same time the russians were engaged in a social Media Campaign, targeted social Media Campaign then i would not have posed the questions because many would be answered but obviously we know a lot more and it isnt the least bit coincidental i do think that one of the challenges in communicating for the seriousness of the Campaign Working the sworn insistence by using and lying about it and obstructing the investigation is that the American People have learned about this in dribs and drabs and if we did not know about that secret meeting in trump tower until the Mueller Report came out you can imagine the explosion but instead these pieces have come out discreetly and so when the report came out we already knew about that and how does that fact relate to the other facts but yes, i look back at Opening Statement and it seems very innocent compared to what we would later learn. I want to touch talk about the russian interference effort and this is where there is no rebate from a bipartisan same point that russia did interfere in the selection and effectively the way you described it is had a distinct Russian Campaign to elect donald trump by hacking the Russian Military intelligence and by setting up a digital operation with about 80 people roughly the same size as the clinton Digital Campaign operation. What impact of foreign interference have in 2016 and is this a real problem Going Forward into 2020 . First, i would take some issues with the premise because not everyone except that and indeed the president of the United States does not seem to accept that. When he met with the orchestrator of this, Vladimir Putin, putin denied it and the president said he denied it strongly and why would i believe the intelligence agencies over Vladimir Putin and indeed, in the last conversation with putin he called this a hoax when the president calls this a hoax, the russian hoax, he quite deliberately does not say conspiracy of hoax or is the whole idea that russian intervened a hoax . He wanted to cover everything. He we dont really know any good event the chinese or some that guy sitting on his fed. Im not sure that the agreement with the president of the United States does not seem to acknowledge this in terms of the actual impact as the port makes clear that the social Media Campaign reached hundreds of millions of americans resulted in people, ordinary americans, on knowing that they were being communicated with by not their neighbors in texas or neighbors in florida but their neighbors in st. Petersburg and urged to dress up like Hillary Clinton and go into a cage at a rally or organize a protest. It may have suppressed turnout and in terms of the ultimate impact, Society Election we will simply never know. There are a lot of aspects of this that were highly influential and certainly the cumulative total that social Media Campaign and the degree to which the russians were able to force the Clinton Campaign to continue to respond to their hacking and dumping of documents but the best evidence that it was a meaningful impact on the Campaign Comes from donald trump himself. From the dozens and dozens of times in which donald trump trumpeted the wikileaks disclosure and something he would not have done if he did not believe that it was pivotal to his campaign. At one point was lost that the russian interference would not have been as effective or would not have worked almost at all if donald trump had disavowed it and condemned it and said no, we do not want you to interfere in the selection and scolded reporters were using that material. In fact, something similar happen in 2000 when al gore received a briefing book from a video from the george w. Bush campaign and contacted the fbi. That enter effort to interfere by filling materials and injecting it into the political process did not work and is that how you read it that donald trump effectively aided the russian attack by promoting what wikileaks by promoting the materials russia stole . Without a doubt. Im often struck in my job with sometimes the wonderful and sometimes awful fluidity of things. The awful gratuity of 2016 is that at a time when the russians decided to maximize involve themselves on their election john mccain was not the nominee for the gop and it was donald trump. Had it been john mccain i am confident that he had the strength of character to say russia, but the hell out and i dont want your help, i dont need your help, i despise your intervention but it wasnt. It was donald trump and he welcomed it and built it into his Campaign Strategy and publicly called on the russians to one of the most startling facts from the report is that within hours of him saying hey russia, if you are listening the russians proved they were listening because within hours they try to hack a server belonging to the person of Hillary Clinton and so yes, i think certainly a lot of responsible he goes to donald trump but i will also say this that when this was happening real time many of us were urging the press to be more responsible in their reporting. By that it is not always the case that documents that are stolen and documents that are being published as part of a foreign interference is not always the case that the question report the contents of those and sometimes the content is of such overriding public significance they cant fail to report it but the context should be given and often these articles, endless articles about the trip and drive of the clinton email failed to begin with the most important fact which is we only know this because the russians want us to know. In documents believed stolen by the russians to influence our elections this is what we have learned without that critical context, i think, the press amplified with russians were doing even as donald trump was amplifying it. One of my frustrations in reading volume one of the Mueller Report compared to volume two is that in volume two mueller puts into context what people knew at the time and when they knew it but in volume one you disassemble the context in the meetings and context that took place. In the course of your investigation did you find that Campaign Officials knew that russia were interfering and that they were aware wikileaks was near potentially acting as a russian cut out or read some of the press reporting from Washington Post in june 14, was there awareness on the part of the Trump Campaign of what was happening at the time . Of course there was awareness of the Trump Campaign and they were reading the clippings like all the rest of us and do not need an intel briefing although they did get a briefing that the russians were interfering in august and even without the briefing it was patently obvious. What was going on they were delighted to have helped and their ethic was we dont have to wonder about this because we hear from the president today and if a Foreign Government will offer dirt on your opponent, why not . Even after all we have been through and that question goes to the president or Rudy Giuliani or Jared Kushner none of them can bring themselves to say that they would refuse it or alert the authorities. Their ethic is it would be a sap not to take the help. The only line that matters is not patriotism and not at six or morality but it is just whether you can escape criminal prosecution. You can do everything up to the bar of escaping persecution and the problem with that standard president of the United States is when you have an attorney general who believes that the president of the United States can make any criminal case go away even once instigating the president if he thanks they are unfair. Its a license for lawlessness by the president. You know by derek fishers oblivious this and his claim that in june he was oblivious in meeting with those russian representatives in trump tower and then again leading that with russians in november and december . A were notified in advance but what that meeting was about. The reason why Jared Kushner wanted to be rescued from the meeting and the reason they thought it was a waste of time is because they came to get dirt from the russians. Yes, they got bit but it was not really that usable and it wasnt the dirt they really wanted because they knew the russians had stolen emails. They had much more valuable dirt and even as early as april 2016 papadopoulos was advised that the russians can help with the anonymous release of the stolen emails and of course that is the modus operandi that the russians were abusing is that its better for the russians to release them to wikileaks and give them directly to the campaign and get caught. The wikileaks publication gave them some deniability that if it was not very good deniability but the idea that this meeting which they held in secret in this meeting that they all denied having because of course, they said we never had any meetings with russians and don junior was indignant that the idea that they would suggest they met with russians and of course when he gets revealed then they come up with this phony statement that the president dictates that the meeting was about adoptions. The idea that there is some innocent rooms falls completely flat. I felt one of the Weaker Sections of the report, frankly, was the analysis of the knowledge of the participants in that meeting. We will point out that they cannot show with admissible evidence with the state of don juniors knowledge was in terms of the criminality of his actions because he was new to a president ial campaign or that the invocation and theres no discussion about that visavis Paul Manafort. This is not the first president ial campaign that he was involved in. The concealment about the meeting and concealment of the truth later most prosecutors would consider pretty powerful evidence of wrongfulness of conduct. One question. On the podcast, the acid, we interviewed Senate Judiciary staffer who left and deposed donald trump junior unlike Robert Mueller and do you know why Robert Mueller decided he did not need to Ask Donald Trump junior questions about that meeting and what took place . Well, im sure that the mueller team understood the importance of interviewing don junior, just as they understood the importance of interviewing the president. That is about all of them out today. [laughter] i want to shift gears. In 1990 you successfully prosecuted the first fbi agent convicted of espionage and it was the same case Vice President<\/a> of external affairs at the center for American Progress<\/a> and i have the immense honor of welcoming all of you here today. As we all know Robert Mueller<\/a> will appear tomorrow before members of congress to detail how the russian government worked to sabotage the 2016 elections and how donald trump and his allies sought to aid, abet and cover up this operation as seemingly at every turn. The president has lied over and over again, and claiming that the Mueller Report<\/a> found no evidence of collusion and tomorrow the American People<\/a> will hear what the special counsel actually uncovered. This time around those findings wont only be contained within the margins of the 448 page legal document but this time around the public will hear the fact directly from Robert Mueller<\/a> himself. Facts which are utterly and unquestionably damning. The Mueller Report<\/a> describes at least 37 meetings and 272 contacts in total between russia linked operatives in the Trump Campaign<\/a>. Those contacts extended to the highest echelons of the Trump Campaign<\/a> and trumps inner circle, including donald trump junior. In fact, Campaign Manager<\/a> Paul Manafort<\/a> actually shared internal polling and political strategies within an alleged russian agent. Any proud mp traffic american should have viewed the kremlins operation as an outright assault against the integrity of our democracy. Yet, not a Single Member<\/a> of the Trump Campaign<\/a> reported their interactions to the fbi. Instead, trump himself publicly and enthusiastically encouraged the russians to intensify their attacks. Since the election the president has tried to derail any attempt to expose his extensive pervasive and ongoing relationship with russia. Fortunately, the Progressive Committee<\/a> has remained relentless in uncovering the truth. Late after Trump Took Office<\/a> our sister organizations in the center from your can Progress Action Fund<\/a> launched an initiative called the mascot project which has performed Critical Research<\/a> and tracking the full extent of the president s many contacts with russia. The moscow project has also deconstructed every aspect of this tangled web for elected officials, members of the media and the american public. It is even launched a podcast called the asset that is climbed the ranks of the apple topped 100 charts. It is proud of everything this team has accomplished under the leadership of senior fellow [inaudible] in his colleagues and moving forward the moscow project will continue to pursue and pursue its mission until justice is finally and fully realized. Tomorrow it will be clearer than ever before that the Mueller Report<\/a> did not mark the end of the investigation but only signaled the beginning of the next phase. Now, it will be up to congress to hold donald trump accountable for his actions. Today we will hear from one of the leaders standing at the very forefront of this effort, congressman adam schiff. As one of our countrys most prominent voices on Foreign Affairs<\/a> congressman schiff has worked to safeguard the interest of america and our allies to advance human rights across the globe and to expand opportunities for our nations veterans. He is also a former federal prosecutor who serves as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee<\/a> and one of the two committees that will host the special counsel during tomorrows hearings. We are so grateful that congressman schiff could make time to join us this afternoon just a few hours before what promises to be a truly Pivotal Moment<\/a> in american history. Now i have the pleasure of turning things over max bergman, director of the mark moscow project, who will moderate our conversation with congressman schiff. Please help me in welcoming them to the stage. [applause] thank you for coming and especially congressman. What i know is a very busy day for you considering what is going to take place tomorrow. I wanted to start my questioning by actually quoting you and asking a question that you asked yourself on march 20, 2017 and that was the day was the first House Intelligence Committee<\/a> hearing and a day known for james comey announcing there was indeed, an fbi investigation into the Trump Campaign<\/a>s ties to russia. It gave a press into Opening Statement<\/a> in which you outlined what we knew at the time on march 20th and when you asked is it possible that all of these events and reports are completely unrelated and that nothing more than an entirely on happy coincidence and you said yes, it is possible but it is also possible and maybe more than possible that they are not coincidental and not disconnected and that the russians used the same techniques to corrupt u. S. Persons that they employed in europe and elsewhere. We simply do not know not yet and we owe it to the country to find out. Two and half years later what did you find out . Was this all just a random coincidence . No, it clearly wasnt. If i knew then that we would find evidence in writing of the russians offering dirt on Hillary Clinton<\/a> is part of what was described as the russian government effort to help mr. Trump and that the Trump Campaign<\/a> at the highest levels including the president s own son would say that they would love to get that help and even suggest the best time would be late summer and then set up a secret meeting to receive that if you had told me that this would be in writing i would have thought you were crazy and no one is stupid enough to put that in writing. But, in fact, that is exactly what we would later learn to if i knew the Campaign Chairman<\/a> of the Trump Campaign<\/a> was giving internal polling data discussing political strategy in the midwestern states at the same time the russians were engaged in a social Media Campaign<\/a>, targeted social Media Campaign<\/a> then i would not have posed the questions because many would be answered but obviously we know a lot more and it isnt the least bit coincidental i do think that one of the challenges in communicating for the seriousness of the Campaign Working<\/a> the sworn insistence by using and lying about it and obstructing the investigation is that the American People<\/a> have learned about this in dribs and drabs and if we did not know about that secret meeting in trump tower until the Mueller Report<\/a> came out you can imagine the explosion but instead these pieces have come out discreetly and so when the report came out we already knew about that and how does that fact relate to the other facts but yes, i look back at Opening Statement<\/a> and it seems very innocent compared to what we would later learn. I want to touch talk about the russian interference effort and this is where there is no rebate from a bipartisan same point that russia did interfere in the selection and effectively the way you described it is had a distinct Russian Campaign<\/a> to elect donald trump by hacking the Russian Military<\/a> intelligence and by setting up a digital operation with about 80 people roughly the same size as the clinton Digital Campaign<\/a> operation. What impact of foreign interference have in 2016 and is this a real problem Going Forward<\/a> into 2020 . First, i would take some issues with the premise because not everyone except that and indeed the president of the United States<\/a> does not seem to accept that. When he met with the orchestrator of this, Vladimir Putin<\/a>, putin denied it and the president said he denied it strongly and why would i believe the intelligence agencies over Vladimir Putin<\/a> and indeed, in the last conversation with putin he called this a hoax when the president calls this a hoax, the russian hoax, he quite deliberately does not say conspiracy of hoax or is the whole idea that russian intervened a hoax . He wanted to cover everything. He we dont really know any good event the chinese or some that guy sitting on his fed. Im not sure that the agreement with the president of the United States<\/a> does not seem to acknowledge this in terms of the actual impact as the port makes clear that the social Media Campaign<\/a> reached hundreds of millions of americans resulted in people, ordinary americans, on knowing that they were being communicated with by not their neighbors in texas or neighbors in florida but their neighbors in st. Petersburg and urged to dress up like Hillary Clinton<\/a> and go into a cage at a rally or organize a protest. It may have suppressed turnout and in terms of the ultimate impact, Society Election<\/a> we will simply never know. There are a lot of aspects of this that were highly influential and certainly the cumulative total that social Media Campaign<\/a> and the degree to which the russians were able to force the Clinton Campaign<\/a> to continue to respond to their hacking and dumping of documents but the best evidence that it was a meaningful impact on the Campaign Comes<\/a> from donald trump himself. From the dozens and dozens of times in which donald trump trumpeted the wikileaks disclosure and something he would not have done if he did not believe that it was pivotal to his campaign. At one point was lost that the russian interference would not have been as effective or would not have worked almost at all if donald trump had disavowed it and condemned it and said no, we do not want you to interfere in the selection and scolded reporters were using that material. In fact, something similar happen in 2000 when al gore received a briefing book from a video from the george w. Bush campaign and contacted the fbi. That enter effort to interfere by filling materials and injecting it into the political process did not work and is that how you read it that donald trump effectively aided the russian attack by promoting what wikileaks by promoting the materials russia stole . Without a doubt. Im often struck in my job with sometimes the wonderful and sometimes awful fluidity of things. The awful gratuity of 2016 is that at a time when the russians decided to maximize involve themselves on their election john mccain was not the nominee for the gop and it was donald trump. Had it been john mccain i am confident that he had the strength of character to say russia, but the hell out and i dont want your help, i dont need your help, i despise your intervention but it wasnt. It was donald trump and he welcomed it and built it into his Campaign Strategy<\/a> and publicly called on the russians to one of the most startling facts from the report is that within hours of him saying hey russia, if you are listening the russians proved they were listening because within hours they try to hack a server belonging to the person of Hillary Clinton<\/a> and so yes, i think certainly a lot of responsible he goes to donald trump but i will also say this that when this was happening real time many of us were urging the press to be more responsible in their reporting. By that it is not always the case that documents that are stolen and documents that are being published as part of a foreign interference is not always the case that the question report the contents of those and sometimes the content is of such overriding public significance they cant fail to report it but the context should be given and often these articles, endless articles about the trip and drive of the clinton email failed to begin with the most important fact which is we only know this because the russians want us to know. In documents believed stolen by the russians to influence our elections this is what we have learned without that critical context, i think, the press amplified with russians were doing even as donald trump was amplifying it. One of my frustrations in reading volume one of the Mueller Report<\/a> compared to volume two is that in volume two mueller puts into context what people knew at the time and when they knew it but in volume one you disassemble the context in the meetings and context that took place. In the course of your investigation did you find that Campaign Officials<\/a> knew that russia were interfering and that they were aware wikileaks was near potentially acting as a russian cut out or read some of the press reporting from Washington Post<\/a> in june 14, was there awareness on the part of the Trump Campaign<\/a> of what was happening at the time . Of course there was awareness of the Trump Campaign<\/a> and they were reading the clippings like all the rest of us and do not need an intel briefing although they did get a briefing that the russians were interfering in august and even without the briefing it was patently obvious. What was going on they were delighted to have helped and their ethic was we dont have to wonder about this because we hear from the president today and if a Foreign Government<\/a> will offer dirt on your opponent, why not . Even after all we have been through and that question goes to the president or Rudy Giuliani<\/a> or Jared Kushner<\/a> none of them can bring themselves to say that they would refuse it or alert the authorities. Their ethic is it would be a sap not to take the help. The only line that matters is not patriotism and not at six or morality but it is just whether you can escape criminal prosecution. You can do everything up to the bar of escaping persecution and the problem with that standard president of the United States<\/a> is when you have an attorney general who believes that the president of the United States<\/a> can make any criminal case go away even once instigating the president if he thanks they are unfair. Its a license for lawlessness by the president. You know by derek fishers oblivious this and his claim that in june he was oblivious in meeting with those russian representatives in trump tower and then again leading that with russians in november and december . A were notified in advance but what that meeting was about. The reason why Jared Kushner<\/a> wanted to be rescued from the meeting and the reason they thought it was a waste of time is because they came to get dirt from the russians. Yes, they got bit but it was not really that usable and it wasnt the dirt they really wanted because they knew the russians had stolen emails. They had much more valuable dirt and even as early as april 2016 papadopoulos was advised that the russians can help with the anonymous release of the stolen emails and of course that is the modus operandi that the russians were abusing is that its better for the russians to release them to wikileaks and give them directly to the campaign and get caught. The wikileaks publication gave them some deniability that if it was not very good deniability but the idea that this meeting which they held in secret in this meeting that they all denied having because of course, they said we never had any meetings with russians and don junior was indignant that the idea that they would suggest they met with russians and of course when he gets revealed then they come up with this phony statement that the president dictates that the meeting was about adoptions. The idea that there is some innocent rooms falls completely flat. I felt one of the Weaker Sections<\/a> of the report, frankly, was the analysis of the knowledge of the participants in that meeting. We will point out that they cannot show with admissible evidence with the state of don juniors knowledge was in terms of the criminality of his actions because he was new to a president ial campaign or that the invocation and theres no discussion about that visavis Paul Manafort<\/a>. This is not the first president ial campaign that he was involved in. The concealment about the meeting and concealment of the truth later most prosecutors would consider pretty powerful evidence of wrongfulness of conduct. One question. On the podcast, the acid, we interviewed Senate Judiciary<\/a> staffer who left and deposed donald trump junior unlike Robert Mueller<\/a> and do you know why Robert Mueller<\/a> decided he did not need to Ask Donald Trump<\/a> junior questions about that meeting and what took place . Well, im sure that the mueller team understood the importance of interviewing don junior, just as they understood the importance of interviewing the president. That is about all of them out today. [laughter] i want to shift gears. In 1990 you successfully prosecuted the first fbi agent convicted of espionage and it was the same case Richard Muller<\/a> who was classified information on to soviet officials onto the kgb and do you see any similarities with Lessons Learned<\/a> from that case that you see coming back all these years later and how the russians operate . I do. This is certainly for me my life coming full circle. Thirty some odd years ago prosecuting an fbi agent for spying effectively for the russians. I will tell you one thing that came out of that. I mustve worked with dozens of fbi agents and even though investigation into one of their own i developed a lifelong respect for the professionalism of the fbi and they were a cut above but what i learned in prosecuting the case was russian tradecraft and how did the russians use their assets [inaudible] who was the seductress for some reason there always named but lana so be careful out there with svetlana. She was a russian asset in a soviet acid and they emigrated to the United States<\/a> which is an act of the soviets considered of treachery, traitorous character and was unhappy and wanted to go back and had to earn her passage back. I learned about the soviets used their assets in other countries and i learned how they targeted people that had access to classified information and how they could identify people with financial troubles were people with infidelity in their marriage and Richard Muller<\/a> was a good target for them. The inducements were sex and financial. Those are sort of ageold inducements and if you look at the investigation here who were the weak links in the Trump Organization<\/a> that the russians might identify . Carter page screen that you and George Papadopoulos<\/a> you can look at other potential targets. Paul manafort had a preexisting relation with people affiliated with russian intelligence and Paul Manafort<\/a> was driven by a desire to make money and Paul Manafort<\/a> wanted to be made whole for work he had already been done and wanted to able to monetize his work on the campaign after the campaign all of those factors make them right before potential targeti targeting. What the russians do with the tradecraft is ask you for something relatively innocuous and give them that and then they ask for something a little less innocuous or maybe they give you a certain gratuity before you know it you are hooked because they can expose anything youve done thus far and so certainly a lot of the facts look very much like russian tradecraft. Begin by i dont even know if they had to ask manafort for readings about the campaign but how about pulling data and the strategy in these key states so, here they had someone who they had been willing to offer this without being asked. We dont know the precise nature of their condition among other things because some of the players had apps and other conditions were destroyed and of course, other players like [inaudible] are not the least bit cooperative. When i entered the state department the process of getting top secret security clearance going through the Background Investigation<\/a> was an incredibly extensive and one of the major things that the skaters are looking at is to determine whether theres issues in my background, finances, foreign contacts that could make me compromised. As part of the investigation, the fbi and now to the opening counterintelligence or it did not announce but after james comey was fired but do you thinf that investigation and do you think the president is compromised . The status of the counterintelligence is one of the big unanswered russians publicly. Privately we have been getting information about that and about just to back up a bit this all began not as a criminal investigation but as a counterintelligence investigation to determine whether people were acting as unwitting agents of a foreign power or russians were engaged in active measures campaign influencing u. S. Opinion leaders, policymakers, Campaign People<\/a> but the Mueller Report<\/a> is a criminal report. We decided to prosecute these people and did not decide to prosecute these and here is why. It does not say anything about the counterintelligence spine that is who is at risk and how does that risk negated . The result of the invitation is not necessarily prosecution but it becomes that and there are other ways to mitigate risk. If you look at mike flynn, for example, as sally testified the concern with flynn was for people in the administration and the president and Vice President<\/a> ms. Of the country about whether he was discussing sanctions with russian ambassadors and the risk that sally yates explained that the russians knew what they had been talking about and the russians knew the ministration would rip and they could expose it if they chose and that means they had compromise and we also know that the president was seeking to make a big real estate deal in moscow and he was denying it to the country and had no business dealings with russia what is is what he was telling people. His associates like Michael Cohen<\/a> were coming before congress and lying about it. The russians knew those relies because the russian were on the other end of that transaction. When Michael Cohen<\/a> had a lengthy conversation with someone who worked for dimitri pass cough, someone close to put in the russians knew in great detail about this and of course the truck people knew the russians knew and that gave the russians leverage over donald trump in over Michael Cohen<\/a> in over anyone in the administration and what is so compromising about this is when it was revealed a year after the fact that the negotiations on the building went on long after people had said and on to the middle of the campaign and that campaign had emailed the kremlin and called the kremlin, dimitri issued a statement saying we never responded to that because that was a lie. You have the kremlin covering up and was coming up for his own business. Its hard to imagine something not more compromising but this when this was one out in the present was confronted about his answer was well, i might have lost the election. Its not a crime. There again is the standard for the administration. We can do anything they can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be a crime. Then he said why should i miss out on those opportunities . We still dont know what the president intends to build trump tower in moscow. It may well be his opinion to the state that i may lose my reelection so i should i miss out on those opportunities and its hard to imagine something more optimizing than a project with hundreds of millions of dollars so that ought to concern every american to paraphrase bob Mueller Report<\/a>ing on other aspects of the russian activity. When bob mueller outlined the russian interference campaign he identified two lines of effort and there was a Hacking Campaign<\/a> and a social Media Campaign<\/a> but one of the things we started to see in europe is that theres usually a financial component to russian interference. Theres been financial ties from a russian bank to the National Front<\/a> in france and recent stories in italy can act with far right parties of dangling russian money and it seems to me rather odd that there were not be a russian financial component to interfering in this election and it is, after all, what candidates need and what campaigns politicians are asking for donations and having people for money to support the campaign and it is in fact, to fund it. Did more look into the finances and you have a sense of whether money was whether mueller examined or russian Money Laundering<\/a> somehow made its way into the trunk campaign. Short answer is we dont know. We dont know what the scope of muellers invitation was and we dont know whether the decisions on scope were imposed on him by the acting attorney general or Deputy Attorney<\/a> general and we dont know the answer to that. This is the reason replaced a giant priority and following the money because if that was not done at least it was not done as part of the criminal probe and someone needs to look at whether theres financial compromise and the report makes clear that bob mueller considered his mandate to be very narrow. As you point out, he considered his mandate to be investigating the social media operation, and best getting the hacking and dumping operation and determining very narrowly whether he could prove the elements of conspiracy of the trunk campaign with either of those two lines of effort. In terms of whether there was an investigation into whether there were other means of influence we dont know. We dont know. We are determined to find out. We are also determined to make sure that we do whatever is necessary to expose and economize so we can protect ourselves. Are you happy with the cooperation from Financial Institutions<\/a> Like Deutsche Bank<\/a> and have you gone financial records that you have been after . The Financial Institutions<\/a> are more than willing to cooperate. They are being sued by trump to prevent them from cooperating and this is right we are in mitigation and so far were winning litigation. Lower courts have addressed th this, not only ruled in our favor but also gave such short [inaudible] in the opinions of the court to the trump arguments that the Deutsche Bank<\/a> case look at the oversight committees accounting case and we are doing ours jointly with the Financial Services<\/a> committee and we are sort of the legal equivalent of get out of my court. Its what they told the Trump Organization<\/a>. Your arguments have no merit and dont even have tolerable merit. We feel pretty optimistic but the cold, i think, of the Trump Administration<\/a> and Organization Even<\/a> advancing what i think they know are spurious arguments is just to draw this out as long as they possibly can expect to have concerns over how the invitation concluded and Robert Mueller<\/a> throughout it knows that the firing of Jeff Sessions<\/a> with something on toms mind because he could exert control over the investigation and then trump, lo and behold, fired Jeff Sessions<\/a> and appointed Matthew Whitaker<\/a> who seem to have no qualifications and then appointed william barr but thats not the point when he fired Jeff Sessions<\/a>. Maybe Nothing Happened<\/a> but do you have any concerns over how the investigation concluded . Well, i have continuing concerns about the ongoing investigations in particular. Yes, i have concerns about the ending of the other investigation. We have little if any visibility into for example white the special counsel decided not to pursue an interview with the president and why not subpoena the president. The president played robe a dope with special counsel for a long time and i can understand from a personal point of view why the prospect of entering into a lengthy litigation to finally get the interview before you can conclude investigation was not attracted to people who had voted devoted their whole lives to living in a bunker working on this investigation but nonetheless there is no way to get a better answer to those questions and the questions that were of greatest importance in terms of the president s state of mind were the ones that he precisely refused to answer even in writing, those that went to instruction of justice. I am concerned about whether in addition to their own personal desire to have the over with whether there is pressure on them from justice to bring this to an end. But more than that when barr testified that he believed the president thought it was unfair he could have made it go away anytime he wanted but the indication of that is that he could also make any of these other investigation referred to bob mueller including the one that was just closed in the Southern District<\/a> of new york go away. We are determined to ride shotgun to the best that we are able to find out if there is any improper political influence over any of these other cases and at the end of the day to find out whether there is improper role of bill barr or Matt Whitaker<\/a> or anything else and any of the key points in the main investigation. At this time tomorrow you will be presiding over a hearing with Robert Mueller<\/a>. What are your expectations . If you like the super bowl were everyone is plotting out how it will go and how do you think tomorrow will unfold . I would imagine by this time bob mueller will have cracked. [laughter] he will have acknowledged that the doj policy wouldve indicted the president and will say, in fact, because william barr told me i could reach that conclusion im not ready to reach a conclusion. Im joking. [laughter] i hope that where we are at this time tomorrow is with a better public understanding of the gravity of what the russians did and the systemic nature of what the russians did and the gravity of what the Trump Campaign<\/a> did and what our own president did and how unethical it was and how unpatriotic it was and whether it could be proved to meet all the elements of the crime of conspiracy to willingly invite, make use of, foreign help and not just foreign help but help from a foreign adversary in a country that wishes us ill. And then to obstruct the investigation into that foreign interference for reasons of selfish protection of reputation or a desire to avoid criminal culpability, regardless of what it does to the country and how it leaves the country vulnerable. If the country has a better understanding of the facts i will consider the hearing to be accessible. I know most people dont have the opportunity to read all 448 pages and even those who do you know im a prosecutor. This is my language they are speaking in the support and i understand it and recognize what it means. If mueller concluded that there was not sufficient evidence to prove each element of the crime of conspiracy and was willing to say so because he could not prove sufficiently willful intent on don junior or cannot prove the value of the dirt they got met the statutory threshold if he could say that there was not sufficient evidence of this but cannot say that about obstruction the negative inference is clear and there was sufficient evidence to prove the crime of obstruction and that is clear to me as a prosecutor. It is why more than 1000 of the prosecutors has said if this were their case and if he wasnt the president any other person would be invited. But i think because of the incessant campaign by the president that i give him credit for being ruthlessly on message. He, i think, has endeavored to present the American People<\/a> from understanding the seriousness and the appalling lack of integrity that he demonstrated during this campaign and demonstrates to this date. I want to ask you one more question on mueller and even asked about impeachment and i think one of the Major Concerns<\/a> among democrats and progressives and people who voted to hold trump accountable to make sure no ones about the loss is that there it feels like theres been able to get away with so much in continuing to obstruct these investigations and is it tomorrow a big event and then we move on with their lives or will this be the start of a more rigorous process or public process . I dont know what the impact of the hearing will be and i think i am very realistic in her expectations and people are pretty doug and not just on trump and russia but just dug in on this president and if that appalling display of racism over the last two weeks was not enough to move people is there anything that bob mueller can say will . I am very circumspect about what the impact will be but at the same time i imagine that there will be millions of people that have never had a chance to read the report and there is a natural tendency among americans to think that if it was not true he cannot keep saying it. Sadly, it is wrong. There are a great number of things that the president says over again and theyre just as untruthful as they set it the thousands time he said it. For Many Americans<\/a> learning what is in the report will be a revelation. What the impact of that will be on the congress and country i dont know but i tend to be very realistic about how much this very polarized country has moved to buy anything these days. One thing i think the public does not realize is that this will is just one slice of your broader job and i wanted to ask you about the Current Situation<\/a> in iran and the seizure of the British Oil Tanker<\/a> and how to use the events unfolding and are you concerned about the Trump Administration<\/a> efforts to essentially there are no angels but they are looking like theyre provoking or instigating a conflict. I think were potential were closer to a potential investment almost 20 years now. It is not because i think iran wants to go to war or because donald trump wants to go to war but because the risk of mistranslation has never been greater. The tragedy about where we are right now is it was so eminently predictable and in fact, we could tell this from our own intelligence that if we went down this road and left the jcpoa and if we reimpose sanctions and tried to get them to impose their sanctions that iran would not stay within the deal and if you deprive iran a benefit from it white with a stay in the deal . And it was foreseeable that what they would do would be try to drive a wedge between the United States<\/a> and allies and to up the temperature to up the risk into use that to get europe to try to help them financially and get out from under the sanctions and this is exactly what is happening. The reluctance of our allies to attribute these attacks to iran and of course its become harder and harder to do so given out that they sees the british tanker the reluctant is not because of questions in the intelligence and you saw them have video of iran retreating on unexploded mines and that reflects the view of our allies that this is what we told you would happen and this is exactly why we do not want you to leave the jcpoa and out you want us to link arms with you in march to iran and we dont want to go there. Where we are is tragically predictable and where do we go from here . We will need to protect shipping in the strait of arhus and we need to coax our allies into working with us to protect that shipping and our efforts should not be unilateral we should do it in concert with our allies and we need to recognize that the goal here to the isolation of iran is the United States<\/a> and i am reminded of the comment that tom freedman made during the middle of the iraq war when we invited them to speak to our caucus and what would you do about iraq and he said to quote the new york cop who was asked by a tourist directions of how to get somewhere the cop says i would not start from here. I would not choose to start from here but that is what we need to do. Lastly, i want to ask you about it was reported recently that devon nunez met with now use the Ranking Member<\/a> on the Intelligence Committee<\/a> about what donald trump discussed a replacement for the director of National Intelligence<\/a> dan coats. Do you have concerns about that next appointment in about dan coats feature and about heaven nunez conversation and potentially being a possible candidate for that role . Well, let me just say that what you should want the director of National Intelligence<\/a> is someone who understands what the agencies do someone whos a good manager of people and someone who has the strength to speak truth to power, whether that is true to congress or to do the president. I think dan coats has done all of that and i hope he will continue. Hes been a terrific intelligence had. I hope he stays. That is my feeling on dan coats and im not going to comment on the rest of your question. As much as i attempted. Weve got time for just a couple of questions. Yes. Amy mckinnon from Foreign Policy<\/a> magazine. Thank you for coming out today. Im sure youre currently busy ahead of tomorrow. My question is one of the things that they talk about we talk about the press and authorization is that it sows division in chaos and does not get controversial to say that that works to a certain degree but im curious how you plan on continuing your investigations but without further deepening whats been established . Great question. One of the issues that we have been exploring on the committee is how the russians might intervene again but use new technology to be even more effective and one of the areas im most concerned about is the involvement of deep state technology. Is a technology that allows the production of compelling video and audio that is utterly fraudulent and you could produce a figure of joe biden or donald trump or anyone else inserted into the ecosystem and it would be indistinguishable for most people viewing it with a naked eye. A lot of the fakes of the people have seen thus far have been crewed in the fake of nancy pelosi is whats called the cheap fake where she was speaking i think here at one of the conferences with a slowdown to make her seem impaired. You might imagine how the russians had that technology four years earlier than last president ial election where they can push out a narrative that Trump Campaign<\/a> was trying to push out that Hillary Clinton<\/a> was in Failing Health<\/a> and that they could easily push out videos to make Hillary Clinton<\/a> look like she was impaired. That is of deep concern and we are looking at not just the last war but what is the next were going to look like in the next Disinformation Campaign<\/a> going to look like . How do we prepare against the late distribution of a fraudulent video . We are also doing her best to scrutinize what are the states doing in terms of the Voting Technology<\/a> and how the federal government is helping the states prepare and we are doing the work that we would hope that the president would do but is not in that is in our various committees Foreign Affairs<\/a> committee is pressing the state department and what are they doing to communicate to the russians the sanctions they will see if they screw with us again. We in the Intel Community<\/a> are focused with our agencies and what you hear and what are you learning about with russian plans and intentions. Homeland security there focused on what is the harm in doing and what states are vulnerable or what states dont have paper ballots or paper trail and that ought to be right from the top but it is not because any of the cabinet people are raising the president and he considers it a threat to his legitimacy and will not reset. We were trying in congress to use our leverage and oversight powers to do that. Olivia with cbs news. Mr. Chairman, the House Judiciary Committee<\/a> has confirmed that mr. Mueller tomorrow will be joined by aaron dudley, close eight, in the capacity of the council and the same thing going to happen but House Intelligence Committee<\/a> and how does that change the dynamic of the conversation. It is certainly the desire of the special counsel to have one of his team present with him during the hearing and we are in discussions with them about that and what that would look like. But our intention is that mueller do the testifying and not have someone else do it for him. There may be questions that one of his team is better situated to answer of a technical nature but we dont want a hearing with bob mueller converted to a hearing with someone else and were discussing what the format would be in just what the role would be of having one of his team present and this has been a continuing discussion with the special counsels office and i would expect that he would have someone with him and we will have discussions about precisely in what capacity that person will appear with him. Yes. Cbp retired. Im struck at the power of a memo from the Justice Department<\/a> to thwart what appears to be Constitutional Rights<\/a> of the congress to pursue what you are rightly pursuing it. Just like executive privilege seems to me whatever they want it to mean. Can you address the legality and power and why is this a wall that cant be overcome . The administration is making the broadest most unsustainable claims of the executive privilege that any president has ever made. It is a stonewalling and delay tactic but it is one that ultimately we have to litigate and they know that. For them its a way to stall. They understand when he gets to litigation it gets to judge and if they lose except on the category of documents where there should be a privilege. This blanket assertion of privilege is prophylactic assertion of a privilege to later assert the privilege and it is legally unsupportable and yes, they are going to delay resolution of this and that is their whole points. What they are doing with the congress is what they did with special counsel which is delay, delay and then blame the democrats for the delay. That is their strategy. Weve had discussion about constitutional crises and we will be in a true fullfledged constitutional crisis if we ever get to the point where we have a final adjudication from the court and they still refuse. If this president takes the view that correctly i think it was president jackson wants took when the subpoena issued a ruling he did not like and said thats your opinion so lets see you enforce it. If we get to that point then we are in a fullblown crisis. But i think at this point theyre using this to stall. I would like to see us revive our inherent content power where we can try people within the house and heavy daily fines until they comply. Im urging that we do so and it seems to me that if there was administration deserving of the congress use of the hearing content it is this one. The last thing i will say is we are already writing our own post watergate reforms. I dont expect most of them to pass because the gop in congress has turned into a cult of the president. They have not acted like the responsible political party. When he is gone and trump is gone and when they no longer need to fear an angry tweet from donald trump maybe they will find their sense of obligation and we will be able to pass these reforms on a bipartisan basis. They are unwilling to stand up to him. Some of the corrective action we will have to wait until this president is out of office. If i could use the power of the moderator to follow up on this question russian interference with the hacking of voting systems in 2016 was a tremendous concern and senate Intelligence Committee<\/a> did a lot of investigation on this point and do you have concerns about the security of the election and the actual voting systems going into 2020 . What do you think the chances are of legislation actually becoming law and getting to the senate . I do have grave concerns about the Voting Technology<\/a>, both because the vendors of this technology is unwilling to share their software so we can examine vulnerabilities and people that i respect in the Silicon Valley<\/a> who are far more expert in these matters then i am are convinced of the vulnerability of technology because many of the states and localities have not had sufficient resources and have not even upgraded the Software Systems<\/a> and some are using systems that software they can no longer be upgraded and so i think it is negligent not to have a paper trail. The russians dont need to change the vote count but need to create a doubt among our people as to whether we can rely on the vote count. Thats a low bar and imagine going through a bush beat gore electronic tingling chad situation in a country is polarized as we are today. I am desperately concerned about this. I do think as i felt in 2016 that the less risky more effective vector for russian interference may not be to change the votes but to change the voters and do so by use of things like deep fakes and a deep fake that is designed to tap into a narrative that one side or the other has about a candidate could be enormously effective. If 20 many people saw the cheap fake of nancy pelosi experts will tell you a fraction of those 20 million will later learn that it was doctored and even though we do learn it doctored they will never completely lose the impression they had of seeing that misinformation. I tend to think that also because there is less risk of retribution in serving in multiple places on the planet with a deep fake that its a more attractive way to be disruptive for our adversaries. On that cheery note i want to thank german schiff for coming here today and not just for coming here today but i started the questioning by quoting you for march 20 over the last two and half, three years your leadership on the threat of russian interference and what the threat to our democracy you have showed tremendous the leadership and want to thank you that. Please join me in thanking german schiff. [applause] [inaudible conversations] cspans washington journal live everyday with news and policy issues that affect you. Coming up wednesday morning previewing special counsel Robert Mueller<\/a>s upcoming testimony before the house judiciary and Intelligence Committee<\/a>. This is on his report on russian interference in the 2016 president ial election. Join the conversation all morning with your phone calls, Facebook Comments<\/a> and tweets. Be sure to watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 a. M. Eastern wednesday morning. Heres a look at wednesdays Live Programming<\/a> on the cspan networks. Fbi response to domestic terrorism and threats on elected officials in the fbi background check system. This is three hours. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia903000.us.archive.org\/28\/items\/CSPAN2_20190724_000000_House_Intelligence_Committee_Chair_Schiff_on_Mueller_Report\/CSPAN2_20190724_000000_House_Intelligence_Committee_Chair_Schiff_on_Mueller_Report.thumbs\/CSPAN2_20190724_000000_House_Intelligence_Committee_Chair_Schiff_on_Mueller_Report_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240716T12:35:10+00:00"}