Upper west side. Thank you for coming out today. I know its about 95 million degrees out, but we are pleased you are in our airconditioned event space. As many of you may know e. Jeancarroll from her advice common l magazine which has 8 million readers and is the longest running advice call in the us. Shes been featured in many publications. E. Jeancarroll has written for us to know and has been a frequent guest on the today show. In what do we need men for a modest proposal her newest book she hits the road to talk about hideous men and whether we need them. The answer to the question the title poses will shock men and delight women. As e. Jeancarroll weaves her story it has been lauded at as as a must read book. Tonight e. Jeancarroll will be in conversation with virginia heffernan. Please join me in welcoming e. Jeancarroll, virginia heffernan. [applause]. Thank you for coming, everyone. Im so excited virginia and dire are here. There like the best. Just the most wonderful podcast. Oh, open my microphone. Can you hear this now you didnt hear that praise . Doll you wrote the seminal piece about what happened to me in the dressing room [inaudible] then, virginias podcast she had diana come on and they did the seminal podcast about what happened in the dressing room, so these two women have come forward, suit up and put everything in context so we just wanted to have them here. [applause]. This is an enormous privilege. I feel i must have started this 20 years ago so i could share the stage ive may have written an anonymous letter or two that i try to follow your advice and there is even dieting advice i have tried to follow about getting yourself really hot so you have to cool your self off. Thats really uncomfortable. A you made me do that, but im also really happy for the way you say what happened in the bergdorf dressing room and i think everyone knows what we are talking about, but this is jean carrolls a story in book that happened that reflects on the other characters in the story one of whom is the president of the united states, but also she is the protagonist here driving the story and models a way of sort of taking back a womans a story from the things that happen to us and i think that is one of the most powerful parts of the book it or did the voice is so lively and vibrant. Banks. I guess i will start if you will move in more details in the humor of it, but it was important not to see yourself as a victim in the story that this is not a victim Statement Like they give at the end of the trial like how i have suffered. It doesnt have that voice at all why was us onboard you because there is a lot of temptation now to throw in with the class action voice and the b2 movement and say i have been trounced by patriarchy also in you were determined not to do that. What was that thought process like . Its not in my temperament. My temperament is i am a marianne just every life is here i only have one chance to live in my life is short even though i am 75. I look at today is being one of the happiest days. I just do not look back at the bad stuff. I just dont do it. I did it on this trip because i wasnt forced into because i was asking women what you need men bore and the women were telling some hairraising stories that reminded me of the [bleep] heads i knew, but basically my life has been very very merry and hilarious and along the way i have met some hideous men, but i have i put it behind me very quickly. Thats what keeps me happy. You have a great capacity to move on and not dwell or wallow. Wallowing is the american way also, i think you for writing this book took thank you for including virginia and i in you are telling of this a story. I dont actually want to talk about the bergdorf dressing room for a while if thats okay. I think what got lost in this book would you read the book is that its about talking to people. Its a book about just going up to strangers that you never would meet at a barnes noble on broadway and 82nd, its people all over the country and i want to know what is that like what is that like to go up to people that may not have anything in common with you. They may have voted in waves ways that alarm you. They might have they do based on the book ideas that are kind of paleozoic, what is it like walking up to strangers in towns with girl names and just talking to them . When was the last time you all were on a road trip . Think back. If youre going to live, live on a road trip. That is sheer heaven because as Hunter Thompson says its a ticket, no one can reach you. You dont have to do laundry. I even bought new socks everyday and threw them away. I never had to take off my shoes to be checked by security. I was in that car for 4000 miles going to towns named after william women. Knowing where i was. My agent sort of knew i was on the road. She was the only one. I had my dog. He never forgot his iphone plug. We never had to turn around and get what he left. He loved ladies rooms. He never freaked out. He hated stopping at monuments to men on the road. He hated that. He would urinate on them, so the road trip drives us and i went to town named after women im a but i went to towns named after women into an old vehicle that had huge polkadots painted on it and it hes a cream sickle colored pool with electric hair which i okay, pulling into a little town like lets say eudora, arkansas, catfish capital of the world all i had to do is pull into town and people came to me. First of all they love lewis because hes dressed in a caller with multicolor ribbons and they would take lewis. I would hand him lewis his leash lewis would make all the friends and i would just say out of the clear blue, what do we need men for and boy i received such shocking wonderful surprising responses because you know you are members of the great presta press of the east coast. People are ignored in missouri and mississippi and louisiana and so they are happy to talk. What was it like . It was like heaven, just heaven. May be three of the really memorable people you met and their answers. The most memorable was called call a, its a indian. As everyone here knows the great nations of the indians of the east coast, the cherokee downspout their people had been the women among her people own possessions, they could marry and divorce that will for hundreds and hundreds of years before wightman got here. So, how does she handle it the men disrespects her or do something she doesnt like she just hauls out and punches him and i just love her because weve all heard about when the women. There is an with wonder women, you know we have heard there are women if someone says something she was a big woman and her brother was with her, henry. I said what do you hit him with and henry said well, with carla a nice knife, so thats how she handled it. Thats called killing. Thats the thing, you didnt mess with carla and so i think a lot of women secretly are in the carla club. They kick guys, they hit guys. Back in the 50s if a man got fresh with hurt she was slapped them. Anyone here remember that . Im in the oldest one in the room. Remember . We slapped them; right . In high school; right . Would you stand up, please . Round of applause. In there she goes. [applause]. You slapped them. So, that would be one of them. Its crazy that slapping fell out of fashion. What you think, virginia . I think you could do a whole podcast about slapping men. I dont know about slapping with knives. Can you think of to others or one another in the book that stands out . Yes. The house of beauty outside of tupelo what was the name of the town . Verona, mississippi, right down from elvis is birthplace. Two well, one young woman just bought the house and inside was every beauty implement created since the 1600s. She had every kind of curling iron, horrible, painful, she had it all and i asked her what we need men for and one young woman had gone to a fancy Southern College and she gave a fairly eloquent answer about important to the family about letting a young girl now her place in the world, giving her confidence with the father, very interesting. Then, because the eloquent young woman was so sure we needed then and in the middle of the conversation she started to get angrier and angrier as we started to talk about what we really need men before. By the end of the conversation she had slapped the sofa she was sitting on so hard her friend jumped in the air and to said, im up to hear. We work two jobs. We are underpaid. We are not getting any respect. Shes raising her kids, she has to jobs, no money and they have no place to live and so thats when she started to say okay what we need men she said im going to run for mayor, so there you go. That was amazing, i mean, the section in new York Magazine is timely, but [inaudible] shes going to run for mayor. I should call back and see how shes doing. Im just hoping she one. Actually, thats my question, e. Jean, you kind of wrote three books in one. You wrote a highbred where one of them is this huntress journey through the red states book. Of any wrote a book that is on its own merits just a scorching revelation about how men have treated women in your lifetime and then there is this little part of it that is ps, a me too president story and that ps gets 95 of the oxygen and im wondering, did you expect that to happen . Did you expect the loveliness of this entire lyrical your writing could sort of peel paint. Its such a beautiful book and it all gets pushed aside by a small passage that you put in, i think, after you really had undertaken this project. I do not think that was the intention and i guess im wondering are you upset or frustrated that it took over the story . No. Dohring is Vice President of publicity. Dorie understood what she had heard elizabeth and i everyone to read it. We loved the book. When i finished it i called elizabeth and she said have you run out of hideous men . Is the book done, so she understood. We just thought it was a merry romp. We thought it was so fun. The dog was hilarious and the people are hilarious and i had this fabulous list of hideous men, each one more hideous than the last, a serial killer and just really great hideous men and dorie knew this was going to make a bit of a thing, so she made the book embargo. I was pretty surprised, yeah, the moment i was surprised lori abraham, a great editor at new York Magazine put together next her and i went into new York Magazine for the program and jodi the art director said e. Jean this is amanda and she did a great cosby photo. Remember with the 35 women . Remember that . Amanda is there and thats when they said this will be the cover and thats what i told dorie, really thats the moment because i said dont tell me that, yeah. As we talked about as i hope you will see in the book you are literary figure driven by getting the story right and telling an entertaining and amusing story with small revelations b is a full, but i want to talk like civic response ability. My son asked me recently wise rapist so hard to report and it sort of an impolitic question. Hes 13, though. I said i think it may be like if you got hit in the face on the baseball field. Oh, good. He said i would never report that and i was like its a violent felony, assault and for some reason it could happen to someone else and you can report it, but if it happens to you its important you show everyone you are not aced mitch, a good sport that you can take it and also said to my boyfriend if someone hit me in a face and a part bar i would never report it. Thats an assailant that can then hit to someone else who maybe cant take it as well and you saw trump running for president. You saw his rise in new york and that was the last sexual encounter circuit did you feel any obligation even looking back to join voices with other women around the access Hollywood Tape and say this is a dangerous sexual predator . No, because i thought it was helping him. I noticed the more women came forward the more his base loved it and whats happened since this book came out is trump has gone up in Approval Rating by two points, so this story has increased his popularity and i was afraid of that. I hadnt really figure that out. George mcgovern does anyone remember George Mcgovern . I once had lunch with George Mcgovern when bill clinton was one he bore president and they had what was called the big bimbo slogan and i said senator mcgovern, what you think about these women coming out for clinton and mcgovern said to me its helping him and i think its true because men who take what they want doesnt are seen as leaders and thats how this is reading all these women the more women that come forward hes more like genghis khan, more like alexander the great, like the great kennedy, clinton, name them, jefferson, its a mark of a leader and many peoples eyes to see a man taking what he wants. Does anyone disagree . But then e. Jean, you have given us a 700 why not to come forward and then you came forward so my question is knowing what you know now you can stand here and say i told you so that it would help him, but he still did it. I still did it because i had this hideous list and i just said i told sarah, my agent, i said zero by the way, sarah what did i say it was like one minute better look at this . Yeah and i went ahead and did it i see robbie myers is here. Robbie, im so glad you are here so yes i had the list and to perfect the list the last one was a serial killer, you know. I had the list. I had to be honest with myself. Symmetry, for symmetry. Thats it, for symmetry. I dont know. Was that a mistake . No. I dont think the story drove his ratings up 2 and for everyone that sees genghis khan, i mean, they may have gone up 2 for other reasons, but for everyone who sees genghis khan is a great leader everyone who marched in the great historical march as Human History dont see rapist says great leaders [inaudible] i think its an important story and also to spell out the ark of the womans life so its not a single event in your life. When you have encounters you dont actually consider nonconsensual or destructive, wild encounters and you were driving cut off my leg with a knife. The knife had a handle on it this long, this long in the knife itself was this long and he just twirled that think through the air and picked up my leg and sliced like one of the greatest nights of my life. I mean, thats the other thing. You have the voice of this age of laughing like a fair amount of daring do on the art of the woman and they are very different stories. I went to meet with harvey weinstein. [inaudible] sorry but we have to remind ourselves that not everyone has the knife, in any case you have so much brio in the story and im also also so much Sexual Agency and thats really its just a very exciting story and also doesnt deplete the adventure of sexuality that gets us into all these messes to begin with. Hearing the Jeffrey Epstein story you could think all men are enslavement and rape and its nice to be reminded with your story that some of it is not. Im going to ask one question and it than i think we have a bunch of questions that are your questions we will ask and we asked this on trump cast, but i need to ask again and its about words and language. All three of us are writers. You will all have to come to my defense here. No, i mean im actually persuaded by everything you said on trump cast, but i went to unpack this sort of meta fight everyone has for the first week after you came forward was why isnt she using the word rape and i find it especially in the two weeks we thought about are we allowed to use the word rapist . We were now find it about that congress. Are the headline writers of the New York Times allowed to use the word rapist . Are we allowed use the word concentration camp . We are now litigating when we asked you about this at trump cast you said rape victims are things that i am not so i do not call it a rape and i guess three weeks out, are you still good with the choice you used to make every woman gets to choose her own words. For your own experience, you get to choose your words and to me i just dont like the word for me. I like the word [inaudible] as the word i use and i had not realized what a storm that would cause because i was telling journalists this and thats their purview is words and you know elizabeth Virginia Tech me too task and dahlia took me too task and i cant back out and call myself, you know, yeah. You are an excellent witness and to get back to my son in a bar getting hit i dont think he would want to think i was beat up. He would want to think i got in a fight. Right. Thats it. Its also like thinking that two of you who slapped men who got fresh i love the fresh thing. Whats fresh about it . But that there is a level of physical prowess and so many of your stories with hideous men where you like outrun someone and running your physical life and you refuse to be pinned and you managed to escape or like i dont know they do seem like battles in a way. Im probably framing it that way the story. I frame it so i can look good by running away. I did run, yes. Like you are a real athlete. Yes. Im a competitive athlete, so the thing i go for my sister is the same way. She was held at knife point by her boyfriend and made to get down on the ground and gagged with the gun to the back of her head. She went to the room after a business meeting in the guide closed the door. I dont know whats going on in indiana, that she had the same reaction i did, turned and ran or smacked. There was a moment when we were taping trump cast where e. Jean said you know those times when youre climbing on a rock while in virginia and i were in the booth going, no, we dont climb rock walls, we just read books. We dont do that and so audience questions and this is the first one, why did you decide to write this book now . Well, i think sarah said you should write a book. I think thats really what started it and then i had all these letters coming into the column for 26 years and i actually got sick of telling women to get rid of him. I got i ran out of ways to say get rid of him and it suddenly occurred to me why dont we just give rid of them. Why dont we just unlike yes get rid of them. So exciting. We will get rid of men and then i thought lets just see if we need them for anything first so then i went on a trip to ask people and of course there is something we can do it all the men [inaudible] all right. Oh, this is a very probing question. What is your first name . Never before disclosed. Is tonight the night . On my birth certificate i have an adorable name, betty jean. I just love it. Thats sweet. Isnt that the greatest name . Well, he was not grownup enough for me so i changed it to elizabeth and then when i sold my first article to esquire i thought then i turned it to e. Jean. I made it up. Initials. Yes select j. K. Rowling. Levitt love it. Is the reaction to the book thus far what you expected