Live coverage here on cspan2. The house returns tomorrow live on cspan. How much of an effective social media have in politics in venezuela and brazil over the last two years . Officials from america joined a representative from facebook to talk about disinformation spread of messaging platforms like whatsapp and the responsible to facebook and other Companies Operate the platforms. [speaking in native tongue] translator go ahead. Okay. Buenos dias. [speaking spanish] translator this morning i have the pleasure of introducing a brilliant panel, particularly i am pleased that there are journalists here. For a change im on cloud im on this site and youre on side. That really makes me happy, and thank you to the dialogue and finding a secret were going to talk about social media disinformation and their impact on elections. I had the pleasure and a going to introduce very quickly. I have andrea bernal, some of the most influential programs in the region and political analysis thats ntn24. And edison lanza, special reporter for freedom of expression of the American Commission on human rights. Hes been in charge litigants on the most important freedom of expression cases in the hemisphere, and is also working on report on how to defend freedom of expression in digital environment. That is why your participation today is so important. Thank you for being here. Crystal patterson is head of global civil Civic Partnership and worked into medication a Strategic Communication the public and private sector she now works for facebook and is in charge of corporate relationships regarding governance and policy for facebook. Its very important to include these platforms in this conversation because that is a central multiply. We need to know what facebook is doing to confront the challenges posed by new forms of communication on these platforms come so thank you so much for being here today. Patricia campos mello is a brazilian reporter at large for the folha de sao paulo from brazil. She plays a very Important Role within and outside of her country. Shes been, received the International Red cross award for humanitarian journalism. Shes had other awards and she knows what she has to do. She has been so deserving of the words she has received, and Hugo Alconada mon come at a dont want to offend my colleagues. But thats but thats one of the most important journalists in latin america. Hes a pioneer and also a rigorous. He has done Data Analysis and investigative reporter. You know he works for la nacion in argentina and also other media and he played an Important Role in, as a journalist and that has a Principal Party but in the panama papers, its very important he reviewed that david and brought it to the public attention. Its very important to understand Data Analysis in investigator elizabeth hardly anyone does a better job than him so im very, very happy and honored to be kicking off this panel today. Im going to have a very quick introduction and some specific question and then were going to open the floor to the audience for participation. The impact of social media and their growth has coincided with a decline in democracy. Thats the third way of democratization. And we seen such a big decline five or six use go, there were some minor setbacks but we cant really talk about any decline. However, if the starting point is at the third way of democratization, that is the reincorporation of states into rigorous democratic processes with all the problems posed by transition, then there has been a decline editing today this is recognize very clearly academics, but this has coincided with an increase in these new forms of Political Committee cash and so the question is whether theres a correlation there. Because what you can see, for example, is this correlation could be negative. For example, in tunisia what happened it could not have been successful in the air spring if it not been for the social media. And the only come in venezuela the only space is social networks but is also used to manipulate the very the port sector of the population in some countries which is and also to affect the wheels of photos. What is the relationship between these forms of political communication and social networks . We see this political, given to echo system which this takes place, this could be easily manipulate both my internal groups and by multinational groups that would be the ultraconservative groups and other ones as well. In the case of the ultraconservative groups, its quite clear, or by other countries such as the case of russia. In order to have an impact on elections. What they do, they use data to identify vulnerable audiences and spread lies and disinformation that is specifically aim at misinforming the public. This is done systematically. They use bots to distort communication as if it were human interaction, and they have troll factories that also have an impact. They simplify language and use algorithms to create echo chambers that become spaces of intolerance and polarization for it is a vicious cycle. So the first question is, if you agree that such a cycle exists, and that is the m. O. Unscrupulous people and people always existed but they never had these tools at their service. If that is the cycle, has that had an impact on elections, and how would you describe this impact . That takes me to the second question. How could you respond to these challenges . Tank to everyone, i and want to make sure i can be heard. Yes. Its always an aunt to come back every year. So thank you. The entries yes. Who governs them . Or rather, look at who is government is to look at whos elected. Etc there is an impact on the left and right. They have been elevated or pushed forward by misinformation and above are using the term rather disinformation because fake news also needs to be erased from our minds because if he to say, it is not news. We need to talk as a journalist about misinformation. It does have an impact. The people who are governing as now a day feel supported by social media and data and what trolls control centers are doing. And also by the big populist and latin american countries. And undermine the integrity of their opposition in the media. Theres a recent poll by latino voters in latin america that says 60 people no longer trust institutions, the business sector or media or ministers of justice who are the institutions over which there was a minimum amount of trust in society. So this, its not only impact institution, the three were some because these people come into power by using this information and journalist is welcome we will talk about that later about the role of journalism is to help us up if its only a matter of the media that you also have to have alliances amongst different local parties and media. We also to see how they come into office, and once theyre in power if they begin to undermine the integrity of these institutions which now are affected in those percentages whereby people no longer believe that journalists who are doing their job with data investigation, go to the scene of the events, who put together a testimony which is the most tangible because they find that people die are dying because te so medicine. So what better context to have . We had been, our credibility has been undermined, then you have been whats been happening lately. I do think the impact is huge and later we can talk about whether or not we can do this because misinformation has existed during electoral campaigns for many years. But anything is we have the tool which obligates itself and with just one click, one link, one tweet, the same lie that was called negative campaigning in years gone by, now is multiplied and now we even have some leaders today governing our region because of these lies. Thanks very much and i particularly want to greet the cast and in american dialog for the honor of placing on this panel. First of all with to determine what disinformation is. Its an attempt to disseminate false information to intentionally deceive the public. In this regard offensive use of misinformation is an attack on open and Pluralistic Society and their democracy. We have to look at this as the enemies of democracy and fundamental freedoms, and we should address it this way. Its not a political life which we historically have which public debate tried to discern and debate this, but rather a massive effort, an attack on democratic institutions. It has been used in the u. S. President ial campaign but also in colombia and in the uk, and election in brazil by manipulating this information. Also its use in colombia and in mexico, although the effect was attenuated by some measures that were taken during the electoral campaign. Now, secondly, we should also understand that those who come into office use this narrative a fake news and disinformation to discredit the traditional media. The professional journalist who promote democracy by providing quality information. There are journalist but suffer because of this who have been declared enemies of democratic and open societies anderson strategy also in the United States. A strategy in this regard is that the population does not believe that institutions such as the press and journalists who up late and sensual and democratic systems and mixed in with this phenomenon of disinformation, they create chaos whereby alternative narratives can be proposed. For example, the amazon isnt burning, which was from the foreign minister of brazil. Also they take advantage of the situation. In terms of the general effect, academics are divided on this. Some say theyve not had the capacity to change the election but rather have inserted the disInformation Campaigns into a climate, broader, of polarization that existed in other societies in which they say we have to look at the role of the Political Parties, of the populist leaders and effect of the media. Because if you look both at the United States and in latin america, the tv channel, you see one depiction of reality and another channel use a different one. So also journalists need to review their role as the become a chambers in which extremism on one side or the other begins to connect. In the people who have this type of ideology, its become more visible, and hes become echo chambers. So disinformation tends to snowball from the nuclei. Thats no coincidence that the candidates are attacking human rights, attacking the faces of democracy and attacking the rule of law. Those candidates now have a chance of getting elected in most countries of the region and have, in fact, been elected in some. Good morning. Im excited to be here. At facebook we are taking the problem very seriously. Were trying to look at it in a very robust way. We are spending a lot of time thinking about how we can help manage of this disinformation on the platform without becoming police of speech in every way. We believe people have the right to have conversation on our platform and we dont want to stifle legitimate political conversation. Sometimes finding a line between the disinformation and real debates is challenging. That was one of the chungking things up 2016 here in the United States is that a lot of the posts and content that was used to create discord were real issues and real debates before having but were strategically deployed to try to create more problems. So for us that means trying to develop partnerships and working relationships with some of the different groups that you already discussed. Working with the journalists and media companies, particularly in latin america with over 100 consortiums we work with on thirdparty Fact Checking to try to make sure the information that is on our platform is legitimate. If its not, people will be able to know the information is not correct. Weve added for reporting tools so people can tell us if they see something they think is false news. It gets sent for review. But the fact checker determines there is information that is not correct in the post, it will get flagged. We are trying to limit movement. Most of the staff is bigger than facebook. Much bigger ecosystem about politics, elections and the world right now. Trying to limit the scope of the damage. We are trying to partner with a number of agencies. Focusing on latin america, obviously. Trying to gather processing so it is not about partisan you points or kind of polarization that we are seeing. People know how we are viewing these things. I spend a lot of time working with organizations that are focused on how we keep elections free and fair. National Republican Institute and National Federation of intellectuals. Keeping track of what is happening so that we can identify hate speech ahead of time. One of our feelings in the past is that we are defensive drivers, as i call it. Much forward thinking about that also knowing we do not have the expertise. Working with experts on that. The best way to know our tools are not being misused. Coming up with new products for people. Trying to take a broad reaching approach to this. One of the things were also working on is digital literacy. Why are they showing me this message. For paid advertisements, we have instituted very strict rules. Also introducing new transparency rules so you can see any ads that a page is running. A disclaimer about who is running these ads. Providing more information so people have a better sense of who was talking to them and wife. We understand we are in the center of this right now. A piece of a bigger system. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for the invitation. I will try english. Very correct. This is not a new phenomenon. The scale that it is being done is really new. Also, the speed and how easy it is to spread this information nowadays. I will speak specifically about whatsapp. The Second Market is brazil after india. The pervasiveness is huge. Correct me if im wrong, 130 million users to 210 population. 1. 3 billion population. Everybody uses whatsapp. Many people get all of their information from whatsapp. They are very positive aspects of democratizing with social media. With this case, a very negative aspect. Everything is encrypted. You never know what is going on inside of the closed groups. Your a politician and on tv. You Say Something that is untrue or it is fake news, exactly at the same time. You have all kinds of fake news or simple propaganda. You do not know this is going on. Most of all it is very easy. It is very hard to identify who is originating what in social media. In facebook, it is easier. Who is fostering each message. And whats apt, its just impossible to know. The other thing is, this is something that was done. If a person has internet connection, credit card or paypal, this person can buy massive messaging through whatsapp. You can get phone numbers very easily. Very cheap Software Online that allows you. What it can do, and very practical terms, you get a get a group and you scrape all the phone numbers and it creates a huge group. You just send massive amount of messages. You can hire a Marketing Agency and just get people to do this. Very serious. The legislation is not keeping up. All of these expenses are not being declared because you cannot really chase these candidates. Its hard to say. There is no accountability. You do not know who was spreading what or what exactly is being spread. To what extent does that influence, the answer is we do not know. No specific studies that say this was enough to sway an election. No one knows that. The one thing we know is there is no accountability. We do not have a country manager no manager in brazil. The one thing that we have now is jointly responsible for messaging. Facebook messenger and whatsapp. This person is not an employee off whatsapp. In india you have a manager. This is further complicating the way you could make someone accountable. I agree with you. It is variously difficult. How will you regulate this. You dont want to make anyone a sensor. Who will filter what is true and what is not. Thank you. [speaking in native tongue] i lived in washington for several years, so it is very nice to come home. Thank you for the invitation. It is a pleasure to to be here. We talked about ecosystems. Talking about the relative impact of all of this. I would just like to focus on all of that for a second. Now that a president ial campaign is underway, our motivation is, first of all, first, you need to see the context in which this information effort is being launched. That is what academic yeah calls the bias of confession. Everyone who reads this, it reinforces their previous belief this means that they should not be, discard everything that is not aligned with everything they already believe. Two days before the election i publish an article for the new york times. In the comment, i will not tell you who wrote this because i dont want you to encourage that troll, imagine if it had been avenger number two. Totally anonymous. That is just silly nonsense. Did you read the article before giving your opinion . The answer was i read the title and i left it which is what most people do. This shows that this person was expressing an opinion about which he or she agreed they did not bother to read before they attacked it. Thats the first point. The second point, in addition to the circle of confirmation, all of these efforts try to put forward their work in this specific needs of the undecided voters. They dont care about anyone else. People will vote for candidate a or candidate the. They are already and one camp or the other. Who can still switch from one side to the other. In that niche, a more specific one. Of ourselves. The older people. I am sorry. All of us. The young ones, the young people, people, those that are born in the dissident hell area, yes. There is a bad smell here. There is a rat here. What you have said, it affects people who are over 6 feet. Yes. They feel this. There are many more older people than 65. You know [laughter] and then i have to explain that one by one. Regarding that, the last point, and im sure we will elaborate on it later on. I am here because i am doing the same investigation and research work. I asked how you did in brazil and i am trying to do it in argentina. Doing the investigation in regards to cambridge analytical. They are about to publish something about the character that benefits over 50,000 accounts. They work for both. They both know about it an