With people with disabilities. Why do you choose that type of law quick. I was bored deaf blind and then i have to ask for accommodations and that ability to get an education and with people with disabilities and that struggle inspired me to become an attorney. Here is her book. The first deaf blind person to graduate from harvard law schoo school . Yes. What was that experience like quick. There were a lot of unknowns. I could not reach out to another deaf blind harvard law graduate to say how do you do that . Had you taken exam . I had to figure a lot of it out and that started way back in elementary school. And i was extremely surprised about trying to do an assignment and to investigate what was going on and i was in california in the mainstream Public School in a classroom with nondisabled students and then they realize the teacher was writing assignments on the board. So i needed an instructor to read the assignment so if i did that i would never be successful i had to be my own advocate and i started advocating for my rights and what are the strategies to get the assignment if you cant see . I would go to the teacher after every class and ask what did i miss . And that i continue doing that through high school and then i took responsibility for my education and then the school is more accessible there are schools throughout the United States that just let those that on students fail. At least i could do the readings to help stay on top of classes and in those barriers to fall behind and then to get good grades and get a job later. So i was getting more opportunities and then to have these advocacy skills which then help me to go on to school one dash college and law school. And that i had access to Reading Materials and with all aspects of the program. Host at what point in your life where you aware that you saw and heard things differently than the majority of people . I was born deaf blind even i had limited hearing and vision i had more than i do now. Has deteriorated over time. And then i just adapted and came up with solutions that when did i notice . It wasnt an exact date but when i was in middle school i remember i was surprised i didnt realize a teacher was writing on the board and i was missing stuff or there was information missing that i experience the world was different than how adults experienced it. So i had a meeting with one of my teachers for the blind and the mainstream teacher thats how i started to realize how i experience the world is different from others. Others who just go to school and expect the teacher to teach them. I could not do that. I had to think about how could i find out. And all my life with this process to identify unknowns. From your book you write the Blind Community has Horror Stories of blind kids that never contribute around the house because their parents tell them that they cant. My parents expect me to do chores and i do. Thats true. The truth is as a kid i had to do chores. They expected me to do chores. I learned visual techniques like for doing dishes. They would say you cant do that if you are blind or just go sit in a corner and not participate and then to develop these independent skills. That is extremely limiting but if you expect them to participate around the house if you dont show them that then try. Theres a lot of organizations that can help you how to do activities in accessible format formats. My parents had High Expectations but they were also very afraid. There was one time i wanted to travel to west africa and my parents told me know. Thats not safe. I told them my dad grew up in ethiopia how can you tell me its not safe . But they wanted to protect their child and then they would bring up my disability. I told them other students dont know how to go to school. But they still said no. I was frustrated but i did not give up i told him i could do this activity. If they understand not the people outside that experience but then i had to advocate and then and with that program i and my parents sat down and they discuss their fears with the program and they asked how does she go to school if she cant see and then the Program Manager said i dont know but she will find a way. Its okay if you dont have an answer as long as you try and go out there and pick up a shovel and start digging and find strategies through those techniques and when i went we did find alternative techniques how to handle a shovel and after that coming back to the United States my parents felt slightly more confident in my abilities and it was good for me to have that struggle and then to explore the world. Host we are sitting sitting here in a bright studio with lots of lights. What do you hear or see right now . What are the images or sounds . Its really hard to explain i never had 2020 vision. If you have 2020 vision what do you see . I think i see everything my vision is 2020 so i can see your face and your hands typing and well explain why claire is here in just a minute and why she is typing but is it opaque . Is that a term that works for you . Are you aware of light . Put it that way. I can answer that question, yes. I can tell when the lights are on and off. Everything is blurry. Sometimes i can see the outlines if somebody is very close to me i can see them. I cannot see you at the moment but if you were closer i would see the outline but not details like your eyes. Everything is very blurry. Host can you understand any of my words at this point . You write in your book about higher tones rather than overtones. I can hear some high frequencies i cannot catch any of your words but i dont know what you are saying and tell claire, the caption or types what you are saying and she is wirelessly connected she types what you say and i read it in braille with my braille machine then i read the words and i know what you are saying. Host you also have another assistant with you who was that . That is niro adjust small German Shepherd dog was my eyes seeing dog prickly is probably considered a big dog. He is your second dog . He is my second dog. My first dog i talk about in my book when i talk about what it was like to go to seeing eye and train with a dog. If you want to have a Good Relationship with an annual animal or human being you need to invest in that relationship. So i spent three weeks entirely focused on developing relationships with a seeingeye dog at first it was incredibly awkward for i was a stranger to her. And she was a stranger to me. Sometimes she would walk me into chairs. She was fully trained but she didnt have a relationship with me and we had to work on that relationship. And over time we would understand each other and then it improved dramatically. Nine years we worked together and traveled all over the country. When i went to college, she was with me. When i was in alaska she was with me for going to harvard she was there by my side. She was there when i walked across the stage. She passed away from cancer and that was really hard to lose my partner. Not just a dog but my partner. She was by my side. Strategies to help me be more aware of the world. It is like wearing very thin shoes so i can feel the environment more easily when im walking. The shift from good to pavement. I can feel all of that through my shoes because they wear flat. I also told my toes upward when im walking so they decided to smash against something easier to maintain your balance if yours toes are slightly pointed upwards. So i rarely fall, partly because i have good balance, partly because of the way i walk, and also because i am a dancer and it helps you develop really good balance. Host lets talk about louis and Clark College in one of your first advocacy. Guest thats a good one. One of my favorite chapters in the book is my time at lewis and Clarke College in oregon. Its a small liberal arts college. We did a fantastic job providing access to my classes. I had all the materials for my textbook, everything was going well in my classes. There was just one issue. The cafeteria. In the cafeteria they have six different foods they serve. You would go and find your station of choice. I couldnt read the menu. Blindness wasnt the problem, it never is the problem, the problem is the format of the menu. I went to the manager and asked can you make the menu accessib accessible, you could email it to me or put it in braille or post it online. I have Screen Readers that will convert it if it is emailed in accessible format. The manager told me sorry, we have over a thousand students. We dont really have time to deliver this service. For the first few months, i tolerate the situation. I told myself at least i have food. At least im getting the text books for my classes. At least im getting an education. Sometimes we engage in the oppression olympics. We compare ourselves and tell us someone else has it worse. Stop complaining. At least you dont have as bad as someone else. But that kind of thinking is not helpful. Removing the barriers in society is a constantly comparing forms of oppression. I realized if i wanted the system changed, i have to do something. So, i is researched the americas with disabilities act. I talked with advocates. Then i told at the university, i told the food service of the cafeteria they have a legal obligation to make the menu accessible for people with disabilities. And if they dont, im going to pursue legal action. I had no idea how i would do that. I was just 18. I couldnt afford a lawyer. Now i know there are nonprofit Legal Centers that will help students with disabilities. But back then, i didnt know that. All i knew if i had to try. I have to do something. And in this case, the very next day the manager apologized and promised to make them accessible. Back then, i was a vegetarian and its much easier to eat vegetarian when you know what the food choices are, when you know which one of the stations is serving a vegetarian meal so i finally could easily eat vegetarian. The next year a new blind student came to the college who didnt have to fight for access to the menu is. He had immediate access to the menu. That taught me when i advocate, i am removing barriers for an entire community and that inspired me to become an attorney and advocate for people with disabilities. Host your book is written in a series of vignettes. Why did you choose that model . Guest i. E. Field stories are powerful to help teach people a lesson. I didnt want to lecture to people. No one wants to be lectured at so instead, i offer to various engaging humorous stories that will help the lessons stick. It teaches us about abe alisam it is a set of beliefs that people with disabilities are inferior to the nondisabled. We are not inferior but abl abe alisam teaches society that we are. So, the story is in mind that help identify abe alisam and at the end of the book fairs and accessibility if you feel inspired and moved to take that come if you feel inspired to take steps to remove barriers the accessibility guide can he help. Host what is your reaction if somebody tells you you are an inspiration to them . Guest i told them what are you inspired to do . Host that isnt a word you like, is it . Guest it really depends on how people use it. I try to be patient, im an advocate. My role is to teach people about accessibility. I ask people what you mean when you say im inspiring, do you mean you want to take steps to remove barriers, are you inspired to make your website accessible or is the word inspiration hate the skies, sometimes it is. The word is used so often for people with disabilities when they are not even doing anything productive so we want to ask people be aware of what youre actually saying, try to use a different word, maybe role model, maybe motivation, but ask yourself what are you really feeling before you use a word. Host you write in your book that only 10 of blind people can read braille, and 70 of blind people are unemployed. Guest only about 10 of the Blind Community reads braille because a lot of teachers of the blind are not teaching it. Theres an assumption that they can just listen to books on tape or they can just listen to information on their computers, there is no need for braille is the assumption, but if people dont learn braille, they dont develop literacy. Its important to know how words are spelled and sentences are formed. If you only listen to stories, they will think once upon a time is one word. Its important for more people to learn braille and make sure that our schools are teaching it to blind students and adults become blind later in life we can ensure there are services to teach it to adults because it is a really powerful tool to use to connect with the world and access information and especially when it comes to employment, they have an advantage over the non braille readers. About 70 of the Blind Community experiences unemployment and thats because a lot of employers assume blind people cant do lots of different tasks. When i was in college, i wanted to get a summer job just like so many other College Students who want to get a summer job. And a friend of mine told me i know a place where there are lots of summer jobs, alaska. I said okay lets go to alaska. And he was right, there were a lot of summer jobs in alaska. Juneau alaska has a large tourism industry, lots of jobs are there to help meet the needs of tourists. I applied to tons of jobs and employers would see my resume, get excited i was valedictorian in high school, i had good grades in college, lots of volunteer experiences, so employers would get excited with my resume but once they met me for the interview they realized they had a disability and they would come up with all kinds of excuses. Actually, we just filled the position, sorry we are looking for something different. That was incredibly frustrating. People told me work hard and you will be successful. I worked hard and i still faced barriers. Working hard alone is not enough. Society needs to remove barriers, employers need to remove barriers. Eventually, after a long search, found an employer who was inclusive. It was at a small gym in alaska and i worked as a front desk clerk. My responsibility was being responsible for the cash register, making sure the equipment worked, pinning the changing rooms. One day a woman walked in and told me one of the treadmills isnt working. I followed her to one of the treadmills and i tried hitting the on button. It wouldnt work. I tried the other buttons, it wouldnt work. I felt the treadmill from top to bottom and on the bottom there was a switch. I flipped the switch and it worked. The lady told me my goodness i didnt see that switch. I told her i didnt see it either. Sometimes nonvisual techniques are equal in value and surpass visual technique is. Host just to go back to that story, was youre hearing better at that time that you could understand the woman speaking to you . Guest yes. I could hear more back then. I was still deaf. It is a spectrum so if someone was close to me i could understand them. Host i saw earlier when i spoke to you you couldnt hear me but when claire spoke to you, you could hear her very clearly or more clearly. Guest claire ha has this likely higher voice than you do. I think you have a lower voice, so she is a little easier to hear. I still dont hear her very well. I catch bits and pieces of what she says. Host you describe yourself in your book as ultra visible and invisible. Guest its complicated. I stand out as a black woman thats blind with a guide dog and a funny computer, so people see me, but at the same time they dont see me because they see all the stereotypes of blindness, they see the blind beggars that are the stereotypes that we must often see in the media and all the stereotypes about black people. So much of our history the words death and dom have gone together and a lot of people assume that we are less intelligent, which isnt fair. I want society to change and get rid of those assumption and move away from the Charity Model and start seeing people with disabilities as talented, with valuable contributions to society. Host you arrived here at the building by yourself with your milo. What is your system if youve never been to this building what is your system for arriving . Guest [laughter] we have a system called structure discovery which means you use your skills, your orientation and ability skills. When i was in high school and after high school i received a lot of training from orientation professionals who taught me how to navigate through spaces ive never experienced before and a lot of spaces have patterns, sidewalks, streets, buildings so when i arrived here, we moved through the lobby until we found a reception area. One of your Staff Members helped identify a seating area and i used my keyboard in braille to help communicate with the Staff Members. Host player, what do you do for a living, is this a fulltime job for you . You . Guest no, that i am a caption or so i caption tv, college classes, plays, musicals, sporting events. Host how long have you been doing that . Guest i have been doing that for three years. Host is the system come into this is a question for you, is the system something new came up with or who invented what we are doing here . Guest this is a braille computer and its been around since about the 80s but for the most part, they didnt have bluetooth. This model came out with bluetooth and i started asking myself would be possible to connect it to a keyboard and if i connected it to a keyboard could buy better communicate with people. Braille is my strongest way to communicate. I also do some sign language. I am not fluent and most hearing people dont know sign language. Most hearing people can type. If i had someone to keyboard most likely they will be able to type and i will be able to read what they are saying in braille so i started looking for different keywords, testing it with the computer to try to find out which ones work, which ones are most portable and resilient because you have to have them in all kinds of environments. Sometimes people accidentally spill things. So i carry a keyboard and also a backup one just in case. Host you tell the story in your book about a party after your first semester in law school. [laughter] guest that is a good story. For the most part, i have avoided loud noisy environments and parties because before i had this computer and keyboard, i had no way to communicate with people in loud noisy environments, so i would miss out and be excluded in this setting. Then in 2010 before i started law school, i found this system and started slowly using it in different environments. At the end of my first semester in law school several of my classmates got together at a bar to celebr