Transcripts For CSPAN2 After Words Bill Gertz Deceiving The

CSPAN2 After Words Bill Gertz Deceiving The Sky - Inside Communist Chinas... July 13, 2024

Afterwards is the weekly Interview Program with relevant guest house interviewing top about their latest work. Bill, congratulations and thank you for joining us today. We are going to cover a lot of ground in your book, deceiving the sky inside communist chinas drive for global supremacy. The first of all, why did you decide to write the book . This is my eighth book editing 2000, redbook called the china threat which was a play on what beijing calls the china threat theory. It was amazing. They really predicted the emergence of a major threat by communist china. This is never the book, i try to do another china book and every publisher approach, said we wont write a single topic try to book. You have chapters on time but we both write a single topic. Why was that. Tonight i really dont know. There are concerns or interest about and finally the deck in heels and i said it is time to do it another book on it from china as it is becoming greater then it was way back when the transfer was published in 2000. Scenic is very timely. Let me ask you about this title. It is deceiving the sky and they go on inside communist chinas drive for global supremacy. The second is very clear and understandable. What is deceiving the sky, would that come from . The communist china and ancient strategies, and many people know the sun tzu, the famous strategist who comes from what is known as the warring states era, this is like 400 to 200 bc. Theres also a book called the 36 strategies. Author its not quite clear but its a compendium of military strategies that highlight their power to defeat his or her power. Is beijings legal today. Breaker strategy is called to see the sky to cross the ocean. It goes back to alleged in the legend is that the emperor of one of his generals wanted the emperor to go to work with the neighboring house. In the emperor was reelected. So the general arranged for dinner at the home of a wealthy cousin. And when the emperor arrived he set into the house, and he felt his move. He realized it was in the house. It turned out to have been about. So the emperor was then selling honestly with the general to this neighboring province. He had to decide joy go to war with province or to return home and decided to go to work. The point is that the general and yet even deceive the sky and face legend, the sky is the emperor and ace considered a godlike figure. Yet even the sight of god in order to achieve your objectives. To me this is exactly the strategy the Chinese Communist party in beijing are using today specifically directed at the United States. I was struck by the fact that you dedicated the book to the Chinese People. Before we go into the content of u. S. Policy towards china, tells you why you decided to dedicate the book to the Chinese People. I think Chinese People need to be liberated from the communist regime. We dont, i remember doing a debate in new york city years ago and there was both of china was a threat. On the side no one said china wasnt a thread was a businessman. He came up afterwards and said ive been doing business in china for 20 years have never met a communist. I was shocked and you should visit the Peoples Liberation army in beijing. The giant done in the past. There you will see all the Founding Fathers have communism. That is even now, so it is really i think important to understand this aspect that this regime is truly going after global supremacy in a way that it had a dent in the past. The work you know in beijing today. And you are before a chinese audience, and it was mentioned they dedicated the book to them, would you say to them. Is the big method china the Chinese Party is one with the people. The chinese colonel came to visit the Washington Times and years ago and i said look, my beef its not with the Chinese People, it is with the communist party of china. And he said zero no no, there is no difference. Between communist party of china and Chinese People. There is a huge like. 1. 4 billion people are enslaved into the system and there are as many as 93 million communist Party Members for the most part the people of china, do know that. They have tasted a little bit of prosperity mainly in nine cities and they have tasted a little bit of freedom, many of them have traveled the United States and so i really felt that i wanted to dedicate the book of frank the Chinese People from the communist party of china. At the beginning the book you go into how we got it wrong. In particular you cite back in 1999, that the tillage his Agency Issued report and basically the report minimized basically that china was a threat. But then you just oppose that with some 20 years later, you basically indicate that Army Lieutenant Robert Ashley had in fact indicated that communist ideology had not changed thatll as a motivating force for chinas ruler. And basically, the report that was issued then, really documented how and why china is the threat. In fact, one point that really struck me was a 600 billion annually in stolen technologies and intellectual properties. Rather substantial. So how do we get it wrong. What was happening in 1999 and then why 20 years later, it changed. Scenic i like tell the story the backend the late 90s, i was writing a story on the file. At that time depending on was more press friendly they would give you background briefings. So i went to dia and they have a background briefing which was fairly vanilla in terms of what they had to say. But at the end of the briefing, colonel came in and said the general would like to see you. The general was a director of bia and he said at the end of the table and told me that china was no threat. I was very surprised. I would expect the kind of, my question was to him why do you think that and he said basically because of their statement. This was assuming to me. I can understand from the policy officials who want to send a reporter for the possibility of intelligence. But for the top military Intelligence Officer to say that this is Nuclear Armed dictatorship which have missiles of our cities its not a threat, i really felt deeply that there was a deception operation underway. Fastforward a couple of years later and we revealed and i revealed in one of my earlier books, one of the top analysts at dia, turned out to be a chinese spy. He was passing information. I believe that it must chinas penetration of dia at the time it was giving this false information. General ashley, the current dia director has obviously taken a major shift. Thats a reflection of overall of administration policy. They paid an atomic citizenship shift in policy towards china by identifying it as a strategic competitor. This filtering is way throughout the government bureaucracy right now. Effectively pick up on that. The advent of the Trump Administration, in fact, back in december of 2017, when the National Security strategy was released. It does state that both russia and china are strategic competitors but he also defines china its not just only a strategic competitor, but also a threat. And you really document that in the book. Elaborate a little bit more on that. Sure. My view that the first step in finding solutions both of it is for policies or anything else, is to identify a threat. That went out understanding that, we will never be able to solve the problem of china. And so i looked at this and said what is it that makes up the threat from china. I spent a lot of time looking at chinese ideology, i look at their weapon systems there intelligence operations and their influence operations and financial warfare is quite an impressive array of threats. In my view, is the next potential threat like faced by the United States at any time in its history. But there was another dimension and that is in the Trump Administration the link has been made between american National Security and the issue of Economic Security that is really a centerpiece that has been developed to some extent you can argue some of that is on within terms of the approach it is very hardhitting. Its really having a Significant Impact particular at a time when china itself has been confronted with its own economic woes. So would you add so as not only the military component, not only Digital Power influence but also the economics of dimension that is absolutely essential here. Absolutely. I have an entire chapter on chinese economic warfare. Before i get into that, i wanted to. Out about this idea of a multi faceted from china. The reason that the threat has become worse, is that we, the United States has been engaged in what i describe as a 34 year gamble. Strategic campbell. In that gamble began on Henry Kissinger when alondra with beijing against moscow during the cold war. It was designed to basically help defeat the soviet union and again the u. S. At that time, bailed out and struggling communist party of china and but after the fall of the berlin wall the collapse of the soviet union, any sum of 91, there was never a reevaluation. So the engagement policy, with china went on kind of autopilot. And i was never reevaluated and became this great lakes policy we have to continue. And that really is been in normatively damaging. For example, let me give you the most concrete example. Engagement carried through several administrations both the republican and a really good during the bill clinton kinda reached a high. And at that. Bill clinton allowed our National Weapons laboratories, the Nuclear Laboratory to have exchanges with china. Within a few short years of those exchanges, the cia issued a conclusion that through espionage, china that secrets of every deployed warhead in the u. S. Arson. That was lost the secrets, which has never been fully resolved by our investigative agencies, but is clear that it happened, was compounded when the chinese spread Warhead Technology to pakistan. Pakistan then through the a coupon Nuclear Supplier network, proliferated that Nuclear Technology to north korea and iran, syria and libya. We found this out in 2003, when we took down the libyan nuclear program. Among the documents turned over to investigators were chinese language documents on how to design a small warhead missile. I cant think of a greater damage to our security. In Global Security that this engagement that didnt interest in the nature of the threat, from china. Other substantial. Diving into the economic lane as i was asking, just developed out of it because that particular piece, you made very clear the kind of threat that is supposed given time and kind of espionage activities taking place. But also, how is the economic instrument being route wielded in advancing chinas own agenda. Fear chinese economic threats derives from the fact they are trying to use their economic power to diminish the United States. Theyre doing this through several ways. Let me first touch on as you mentioned the trump shift in policy. What President Trump is done, more than any other president has alondra u. S. National security with Economic Security. And that is filtered throughout the entire government. What is law enforcement, intelligence, pentagon. Everyone is looking at the chinese economic thread. As you mentioned, the white house was very successful in highlighting the threat. They issued a report with a stunning title called chinas economic regression. There is a huge policy fight with bureaucrats staying we cant say economic aggression. We do reserve for you understand why. And that is where they to determine the based on the estimates, between 250 billion 600 billion annually in American Intellectual property and technology, has been stolen by china. No nation can survive and especially nation that is so heavily reliant on its technology innovation, with that kind of theft. So getting back to the soviet cold war, an analogy as you remember back in the Reagan Administration, the Reagan Administration did something unique towards the soviet union. The basically said we are going to block western technology to masco. His major contributing factor in the demise of the soviet union. Trump is basically doing a similar thing towards china. He is going to say, okay lets see how great the chinese economic miracle is. Once American Technology is blocked off. So theres been an unprecedented loophole of policies designed to prevent this flow of technology and in fact, i. Out in the book, this policy was launched in very early 2017, during a trump tower meeting, with the present newly elected president president elect trump. He met with the top executives in silicon valley, their main concern was how we stanch the flow of american knowhow to china. Thats where its begun. You feel that chinas predatory Economic Policy will be afforded as a result of this particular policy approach. Do you see it having the kind of impact it should. Yes very much so. The financial warfare, chapter of deceiving the sky. I. Out that in addition to the tariffs that have been posed by the Trump Administration, which are having an impact, china has taken a different tack and they are going after American Capital markets. Through those investments to raise money. As wale as to influence policy. Take for example investments by the california personnel Retirement Fund in chinese companies. Those funds could then say, dont sanction china because our Retirement Funds for their. This is happening in a largescale freedom happy to say that the administration within the past week, has announced that they are going to take steps to try and curb this very regulated Capital Markets which again, the United States is the unprecedented leader in all Capital Markets. The administration has been quite vigilant on this issue and negotiators are also have those goals and those objectives in correcting these predatory actions. As part of the negotiations robert lighthouse card and you mentioned are at the forefront of it. Pushy . Chinas leader goals and objectives . Is becoming a new mouth and tongue up until his extension to the operators of power, which took place around 2012 and 2013, the chinese strategy for the world began. Watch closely and saw the collapse of the soviet union. Their idea was lets be friends with the United States. So their main deception was they work a communist and not a threat, going back as far back as 1999 not a threat. The reason for that was the policy was minor time and builder capabilities. That has changed dramatically. They have announced his goal is the chinese dream. The chinese dream in my view is the really a communist party of china nightmare. This is where china is speaking to take his rightful place at the sole superpower in the world. So as not just that theyre spreading their own power and the communist system, and the predatory lending practices through the initiative but it also means in order to achieve that they have to go after the United States. They have to weaken their main enemy of the United States. There we see the policy of china to send the opioid fictional into the United States to masturbate tens of thousands of deaths to the opioid crisis. Is it true they are striving rather successfully and solidifying his own power base hes done that through the boat if you will, which basically says for live, he is also done that even articulating, the power of the communist party. He talks about the revitalization of the communist party. Do you see him in any capacity as being vulnerable. Sue mackey has consolidated power since 2012 through a massive purge it has been carried out on the offices of anticorruption but in fact thats a cover for power consolidation and he is instituted an unprecedented approach. Not just middle loophole officials are lowlevel officials but some of the most senior officials of the communist party and anyone perceived as arrival, and the pla anybody perceived as a potential rival is being eliminated. This has created great instability within china because the weight that chinas Party Communist party is structured, is pretty much like a group of mafia family. Where each mafia has an outrage and a network and so by purging some of these mafia families, it is creating some dive boat internal opposition to him. That said, he has strengthened the apparatus in china mainly Public Security. There are numerous Chinese Security organizations and security organizations. All of the modeled after the soviet which is again a Political Police and Intelligence Service that serves a dual

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