Russell kirk one day he woke up and said i want to write a book about all the conservatives that have lived and worked and made a difference in our history. No one had done that before. They express in irritable mental gestures. That was the disdain or contempt the liberals had were conservatives. Russell kirk said, i dont think thats right. He put together this book called the conservative mind which liberals said the words impossible. When they began reading the book there was and had been a conservative tradition in america since the founding. [indiscernible]. When he got through and published the conservative mind. Liberal said, wow. Wasnt a hit right away . It was. For depleting if you will. Deep reading if you will. It made russell kirk really the most important conservative intellectual in america. In many of your book, you indicate that 1946 was a key year in the modern conservative movement. Why is that . 1944 and in 1945. The Readers Digest picked it up and did a digest of extraordinary that some 1617 million americans, which is the circulation of the Readers Digest at that time. Read that book. Whats important about that Readers Digest version is that two gis coming out of world war ii read it in the digest. One was an arizona businessman who had come out of the wars. What am i going to do now . I dont want to go back into business. Maybe i will get into politics. His name was Barry Goldwater. And he told me when i interviewed him years later that it made a difference in the way he looked at economics. The way he looked at society. The other g. I. Was a sometime hollywood actor who had him a couple pretty good films and not so good films. He read it also. His name was Ronald Reagan. And then i interviewed him years and years later. He said the same thing. That Barry Goldwater. What a difference that one book have made in the way he looked at society. Way he looked at economics. The way he looked at himself. What was america like in 1946 . It was a nation wanting to get back to what it called normalcy. The had fought a very tough war and won it. Many people have died but hundreds of thousands had died. So the gis returning wanted to get married. They wanted to have babies. They wanted to buy a little house perhaps with the picket fence. Maybe with a tire floating off the tree in the back. They just wanted to enjoy life once again after facing death during world war ii. And it was a time when we were in a political transition. The democrats to the republicans. That was the motto as a matter of fact of the republicans in 1946. Which was, had enough. If you have had enough, vote republican and thats precisely what happened. That elected the famous 80th congress. The socalled donothing congress which had done an extraordinary lot. For example, working with harry truman that brought about really the Building Blocks of the policy of containment. The truman doctrine. The marshall plan. Nato. All that came out of that socalled donothing congress. At the same time, under bob tafts leadership in the senate, he was an ohio senator. They cut taxes. The cut spending at the same time and the country was better for it. At least as republicans argued. Who was robert taft and what was his role in the modern conservative movement . Robert taft was a brilliant senator from ohio. Elected in the 1930s and took it upon himself to challenge the new deal. The son of William Howard taft. Yes, thank you. President and chief justice of the Supreme Court. Robert taft was a brilliant guy. Always prepared to always knew what was happening on the senate floor. Always willing to take on the democrats and the new deal. What would happen is that people looking around when a new bill came to the senate, it would turn to bob and say, whats this bill all about . They knew he had taken the time to read it and do he would be able to discuss it. He was conservative but he didnt call himself a conservative. We didnt have conservative movement and 46. Bob said sometimes im a livable, sometimes im a conservative. But most of the time im a conservative. Mr. Edwards, when would you define the beginning of the modern conservative movement . I think it really begins again, with that book. If there wasnt a movement at that point, when did that movement start . When did the movement start . Well, that did not occur for another decade. When this extraordinary young man named William F Buckley junior decided he was going to start a magazine. That he said, its not going to be just a magazine. Im going to do the same thing with this journal, with this magazine that the new republic did in the 1920s and 30s. Which is to prepare the American People for the new deal. For progressive era. Bill, looking at where we were in 1955, there was no movement. He said we desperately need this magazine. To bring about a conservative movement and to do for what we believe in, limited government, traditional american values. Free enterprise. All of those wonderful ideas. With that magazine, we can begin to create this movement. Whats interesting peter, is that what was he going to call it . Well, when bill wrote which had been four years earlier. 1951. He had said, talking about himself, im not conservative im an individualist. An individualist. By 1955 when he started he said this is a conservative journal and i am a conservative. Both what had happened . In the interim. In 1953, russell kirk had written the conservative mind and had given our movement. A name. The conservative movement and without russia, we would have called ourselves the individualist society which doesnt roll off your tongue terribly easily. But bill could see what the impact had been of just that one book. Very easily abandoned the individualist and called himself and the magazine, conservative. In your autobiography, just right. You said you became a conservative because of communism. True. It really began for me in 1956. I was in paris. Doing studying and going to classes but occasionally going to classes. Perhaps spending more time than that at cafcs and cabarets late in the night. And then in october 1956, i had just gotten out of the army and i was settling in. I was going to be a great novelist. Another hemingway. And out of budapest, came of radio broadcast that the people of hungary had risen up against the soviets and said get out of town. Miracle of miracles, they did. The soviets their tanks. They sent them back in and slaughtered thousands of young men and women. My age, i was then 23. And i was so stricken by that. I thought, what can i do . What can my country do . It was a very weak press release out of the white house which disappointed me greatly. We didnt do anything more than that. And i resolved peter, at that point, that whatever else i did. I would help those who were proposing communism as best as i could. So i became an anticommunist because of the budapest revolution of 1956. So that was Dwight Eisenhower. Yes. The Republican Party is one thing and the conservative party is another. And we cant judge the ups and downs of the movement faced upon the ups and downs of the party which is just interested in election. The conservative movement is an intellectual movement has become a Political Movement and is interested in principles and ideas. And thats where i come from and where most conservatives come from. So Dwight Eisenhower and robert had collided from time to time. They certainly did. In 1952, bob taft came to chicago and the Republican National convention with Something Like 500 delegates. He needed Something Like 600. Thought he was going to get the nomination. He was opposed by eisenhower. The great war hero of world war ii. The great leader in the invasion of normandy and the rest of it. At the very last moment, people begin switching from him to ike. And one politician asked, why . Why did do that . He had a marvelous answer but he said well, we loved bob tasked but we love the victory more. And they knew if eisenhower at the top of the ticket, they were going to win. They were going to be harry truman and bring back a republican to the white house for the first time. So that was a grave disappointment shall we say to bob taft and a conservative. We said well, we have got to nominate a conservative. We think that will bring no the forgotten america. The silent majority. That did happen a decade later. Back to your autobiography. I read and reread why not victory. We must recognize the enemy for what he is. And use our strengths to oppose communism wherever it exists. That was a crusade worthy of joining. What is why not victory . Its a little book written by Barry Goldwater in 1962. Came out after the conscience of the conservative which was an enormous bestseller. So 3 million copies. And his running for the presidency in 1964. It was his statement as to what kind of foreignpolicy he would pursue. At the top of the list would be not just playing for a time. Not just a combination, lets make a deal every now and then. We want victory. We want to end the cold war. That was a statement which he proclaimed vividly. Eloquently. In 1962. And it had influence on Ronald Reagan. One was he first elected to the senate . 1952. Coming out of world war ii, looking around for something to do and decided, it might even be fun. Thats what he said. Didnt take politics to seriously but when it came to acting on principle, he would always Pay Attention to it. The constitution was his northstar. That was the most important thing to him. Legislatively, what was he known for . He was known for a Strong National defense. Making sure that there would be sufficient weapons for our military if we were called into battle. And of course we were in the korean war and the vietnam war. Probably his most famous and really longlasting legislation came in his last year. 1986, when he was responsible for the first reform of the Defense Department for the First Time Since it was organized in 1940. Colin powell brought him in a couple years later with the persian gulf war. Went to senator goldwater and said barry, i want you to know we were as successful as we were with the persian gulf war. Taking saddam and his people out of kuwait because of what you did and sam dunn. The democratic to bring about the first reform of the Defense Department. We want to show video and this is from 1964. I think you will recognize it. I would remind you that extremism and the defense of liberty [indiscernible]. [applause] thank you. Let me remind you also, that moderation and the pursuit of justice is no virtue. [applause] lee edwards, were you there . Where was that and were you there . That was 1964 at the Republican National convention. Barry goldwater had been nominated the night before and this was his acceptance speech. I think it can be fairly said, maybe the most famous acceptance speech and political history at national conventions. I was there. I had been director of communications for the goldwater for President Committee. I think i felt like dancing on the ceiling after we won the nomination. But, i have to say, i was not happy with that speech. I felt the use of the word extremism would have a kickback. A negative connotation in the minds of Many Americans and the it might very well have been a mistake. By the way, i had nothing to do with the composition of it. Nor did other important little type in the committee. And we were disappointed. We were nervous. I think whats also important to say is that there was no spin doctors at the time. Today, if somebody made a speech like that, immediately following, everyone would move into a big room and there would be. His spokesman for the candidate. Heres what that meant. Heres what he had to say. Heres the Historical Perspective and on and on. They didnt exist. Those spin doctors and spin city didnt exist in 1964. So we left it to the media and the politicians to interpret it. Didnt have a chance to say well, whats wrong with extremism. Patrick henry, give me liberty or give me death. The idea that just a couple months earlier, Martin Luther king jr. From a birmingham jail talked about extremism. He said i want to be extreme in my pursuit of justice. Here were possible alternatives and ways of explaining what Barry Goldwater said. But what people heard was, extremism is no vice. Thats what they heard. In the pursuit of justice got dropped out in the minds of people and of course our opponents whether it was lyndon johnson. Winning that nomination was a fight for the Republican Party. It was the beginning of the transformation of the Republican Party into the conservative party, which is what it is today. It began in 1964. George had a funny line about that thing well, Barry Goldwater was right. He was just 16 years too early. In 1980, Ronald Reagan won the presidency with essentially, the same platform. And the same policies that Barry Goldwater was recommending in 1964. Especially, why not victory. This is a question you ask in your books, can conservatives [indiscernible] i think they can. The socalled donothing congress, did all those wonderful things. Cut taxes, cut spending. Of course in 1980, we had Ronald Reagan. One of the great president s. Not only of the 20th century but in american history. That did extraordinary things. Restoring americans confidence in themselves. Sparking a period of economic prosperity, the like of which we had not seen before in peace time. Winning the cold war. That was uninsured in every accomplishment. Back to just right, joining the goldwater team was like being called up from class aa harrisburg to play for the washington nationals. [laughter]. Yes it was. What were you doing at the time and how did you get the call . I was in washington d. C. Doing pr work and then a press secretary to a senator. In 5962 and then went to work for a small pr firm. Then came the Draft Committee and i immediately volunteered as a press assistant and i was. Except it at that. In november 1963, i was hired as a news director of the Draft Goldwater Committee and that afforded me an opportunity when they formed the President Committee to become the director of that. Although i have to say, if i may, i was doing some travel with the senator. Being a traveling press secretary. But we did a really, somebody to be officially director of communications. So they hired a gentleman. Unfortunately, within a week, he had a heart attack. It had to resign. We looked around and there was lee edwards in the corner but she was too young and too inexperienced. They hired another veteran and he worked for about two weeks. Turned out he was an alcoholic. And also a skirt chaser. So he had to resign. They looked around and said, theres edwards. Hes too young, too inexperienced, but hes here hes here. Okay. We will give you a chance. To thats how i became the director of communications of the goldwater for President Committee. But i did a pretty fair job through the convention. Thats how liberals saw conservatives i thought. How rockefeller and scranton saw the goldwater delegate is not the storm troopers would unleash on those who opposed him. From early on the republican liberals like rockefeller and others were determined to paint goldwater as some sort of extremist. As a wild cowboy out of the west. What was at stake of course was the Republican Party. Who was going to control it. The eastern establishment had controlled it since forever. And here along came Barry Goldwater. The west, southwest, the south. And they said no, we are not going to give up to these people. That means tarring and brushing. Barry goldwater by painting him and extremist, so be it. As it turned out, we had done our homework with the help of clifton picking up delegates in the various states of our time. In those days, it was not so much the primaries that made much of a difference. What did matter is what happened at state conventions, county conventions and even local conventions. And we had steadily lined up delegates as early as 1963 for the convention. So we knew going in that we were going to win the nomination. That meant that Barry Goldwater would say whatever he pleased and really let the people know what was at stake here. What do you remember thinking about Nelson Rockefeller . I think probably what i remember is somebody who had a checkbook. Who would write out checks to do things. To win however he could. Whether it was to persuade delegates or to engage in tough love. Tough tumbling and a primary. I think most of all, he was for us, a young conservative. Which is what i was at the time. A Big Government liberal. If you thought there was a problem, all you have to do was spend money and that would solve it. So is it what is the difference between him and a liberal democrat . None whatsoever. So we are not going to go that route. It did turn out that he was something of an anticommunist, ill give him a plus for that. When it came to domestic issues, he was a Big Government gone. Very happy to do so and we were tired of that. Not only Young Conservatives like me, but the older conservatives who had been around for decades were bloody well tired of it and w