If you look at our website, our facebook page, the app or go by the tenth in the plaza, we would love to have you help support the festival. After the session, paul will be signing books at the signing tent that is on the plaza and the books are for sale at the parnassus tent and a portion of those to sales go directly to the festival. We are here today, to hear paul talk about his latest book. He has published numerous works of fiction. In 1991, he was awarded the james black memorial prize. This was for his work the Mosquito Coast which was adapted into a movie in 1986. After moving to london in 1972, he said often in epic journey by train from Great Britain to japan and back. His account of this journey was published as a Great Railroad or railway bazaar. It was his first major success as a travel writer. It is now considered a classic in the genre. He has since written a number of books including deep south in 2015, which details for road trips he took in Southern States in the u. S. He has written that travel is less about landscapes and about people. I think well find thats really true in his latest book. On the plains of things. It focuses on the people as much as on mexico itself. It is a great journey south of the border so we welcome today paul. Going to have a conversation about his book and i think for monday of us, the question to begin with is why did you decide to go to mexico. Was there something in particular that appealed about it. Paul thank you so much for being here and its a pleasure to be back in nashville. I was here four years ago i believe. I thought had been to nashville a number of times and i hadnt realized passing through just stopping briefly what a rich cultural tradition you have in the number of cultural activities you have. I went to the opera and i went to a ballgame and i went to obviously hurt some Country Music you got a great museum. This is absolutely wonderful city to come back to. Thanks to your hospitality and thanks to doctor alexander. I should also say i will ask you in a minute. Before what we were chatting about here were books and doctor alexander teaches victorian literature. I dont know if youre interested in that but doctor alexander is the reader and i feel as if we made an immediate connection talking about stephenson, charles dickens, the dark about frankenstein just a moment ago. I would say when reader meets another reader, they have a friend. Very pete few people read deeply. They might read a book stephen king or god bless them, [laughter] but if you read deeply in literature, doctor alexanders field is victorian literature which is very thick. Includes henry james, stephenson, conrad, and amazing names. And and more twain two. That is just one of the pleasures of live is reading and other pleasure in live is writing. And the reason i went to mexico was i was working on a novel and i had a chance to go to novalis, arizona. If any of you have been to novalis, and slaves. Eight to ten people. Great. Nice little town. Novalis, arizona. As a big fence beside it. [laughter] and at the end of the road, borrowed or Something Like that, the big fence. And you look across the fence it is mexico and theres a torn fence. I have written 11 travel books. Ive never been to a country where at the edge of the country, the border of the country there is a fence. Its just the most amazing site. Do you know that the artist christo, strange constructions rubbing of a building or, the fence looks like christo designed it. At 30 feet high, because upanddown and it is the most wonderful looking thing. Its cut so it kinda weird thing but is an amazing piece of sculpture. It doesnt keep people out and it doesnt, really surf any practical function. It scares people and looks like more of a country if you go to the border of india and pakistan there is a fence. Kenya got to the fence. China and russia, no fence. When a Security Officer be obviously in the border. He cant have people just screaming across walking across, this a good anybody. I went to the door the fence. It is the most amazing experience. This like alice in wonderland. The open the door and go through the turnstile and a width of the fence and i was in mexico. But everything on the side of the fence was the usa and everything on the side of the fence was misko. Mexican food spanishlanguage music, dentists, because if you have bad teeth, go there. You through the fence, back in america where snakes are more expensive, and people are speaking english. The dramatic experience of going through this fence, made me think there is a foreign country right next door. All you have to do is go to the fence. So is working on a novel but then the president began making discouraging remarks about mexico. Raper his murders the ring drugs and crime. The people were agreeing, yes yes. So what he was describing was a stereotype. While there are stereotypes to the chinese, americans, indians and pakistanis, stereotypes and the reason we travel, and the reason you read travel books, is to discover the subtleties and the stereotype its not true. Countries are full of variations people. When trump said that, might have this experience again. Everyone is talking about the border. The border of the water when we do about the work. That of an offense, that i about the women. Keep them out. So i thought, im going to get a car and use my car and drive from, i live in cape cod, massachusetts. Albright from cape cod to mcallen texas in the went west analytics. The backandforth of the border. Really from tijuana to measure morris. Sunday go to princeville. Actually went to bully tina which is the end of the rio grande. And then went deeper into mexico. I would as far as you can go. But all of the the top for a while in mexico city, and i studied spanish in oaxaca. All of this work road trips. When i tell people is going to mexico and is going to drive there, yet their reaction was. They said dont do it. Are you insane, you will die. You have a death wish . The people of the thing that to my whole live. [laughter] joined the peace corps in 1963 went to africa. No incentives going to die. But they did ask wire going to africa 1963. It is actually wonderful curiosity and destroying the stereotype in the whole country talking about mexico but not really describing her going there. And thought i can bring back market describe my experiences there and maybe elected people of it at the same time i dont have a job so what else am i going to do [laughter] but also, im an old gringo, so how long am i going to be driving my car. We get to my edge, you need to renew your license every two years. And you pass the eye test. So not become a time when it will be able to do it. I havent some of them advice than what will i do. I going to do these snakes before your time its out. And the other thing, leslie, as an older person, there are some older people my edge here perhaps. We dont get a lot of respect. Older people in those states, go to the dr. The dr. Said or the assistant says paul the dr. Will be with you in a moment. Sample. I met you before. Why are you calling me paul. Want to mr. Perrault. Then theres a role that you can call them by last name whatever. Show them respect. His try to give me down that is becoming invisible is older person. Kind of annoyed by it like known as advertising advertising and is aimed at the young. Education, everything politics everything is aimed at the young. The buyer the encoder, what about us. What about me. The First Express and misko was respect in the older people are respected in mexico you are spoken to with a formal you, a status, how are you sir. That is different from hey paul take those seat doctor will be with you. [laughter] very different all of those are reasons im not going to write a piece of national geographic, or make a living i want to go to like fall travel, to keep on living my live. Thats a long made it through but thats has informed all of the travel victim. Host im going to touch on a couple of snakes that you have an made it through. The first section in your book, you talk about several of the people that you meet in the detention camp. In particular, you talk about maria, she is the mother of three and she is quietly staying a prayer over her meal. I wonder if you can talk to us a little bit about your impressions of the camps the people who are there. We hear a lot of scams, newspapers and television and wonder if you would share your impressions with us. Paul is the democrat who is the refugee, how would you describe in an immigrant. Of your politician, its a mexican coming press to get welfare or to take advantage. The sister job. I discovered mexicans are the least. Mexican immigration is way down. If they come across it all, are going to clean a hotel room, where it work in a meatpacking plant. Pick strawberries in fresno. Join a boyfriend or husband and work as a roofer. Putting up drywall, doing masonry, monday screaming pools, thats all the general mexican people coming across legal or illegal. When document or whatever. Thats them. There are others. They are called special interest aliens. Do any of you know this term. Special interest aliens. Trainees, pakistanis, nigerians, chinese, angolans, iraqis, afghans, syrians, and how they come across. Paying money. A chinese potential immigrant will pay the cocktail number 50000 in the cocktail member will lead him through the tunnel if you want, and came across. And collect 50 grand. Or 60 granderson to grant. The prisons in arizona, and new mexico are filled with special interest aliens. Indians. Politicians go down there and say, check out the mexicans in prison. And they find pakistanis. Hundreds of them. Then there are of course the Central America who come from brutalized countries on doris and salvador guatemala, wallaces and escaping that. Thats a whole another group and you could put those in the human rights can bring. But the chinese or indian tycoons, are paying a lot of money. The human rights, so do you say, you are going to give them sanctuary in your church. Come, you pay the money in your being arrested or whatever. We will shelter you because you are immigrant. He goes from a very wealthy immigrants who want to pay money to come across to people who are completely desperate who are screaming across her walking across the desert. The woman that i met, was a woman with three children is like sophie his choice. She had three children and her husband has been head of editor. She had no money. No money and monica is, it is the same at kenya or bangladesh. Its roughly 3400 a year per capita income. So is very low. They come from villages that have little water supply and no topsoil. Nothing really. People against the elements. That is why. So she was very poor. She was very tired. I was very struck and she was crying like this. Theres a picture of priding hope. No money and she just wants to work her head off to send some money back and then leave and go back because shes got nothing. But the others, somebody comes from syria, they sold the house in about thousands. Must you get from syria to mexico city to the water across here illegally. You need some money. The migrants come in some of them have a lot of money the cartel son of own the borders you know. And others are desperate. There isnt an immigrant, is the whole spectrum. This is why you cant stereotype them. But something needs to be done obviously something needs to be done. This is experience i had. You start looking at the situation and you think as you do traveling and he can pressure come as soon as you can trade in deeper, you think this is a lot more complicated than i thought it was going to be. I write a book about it. So thats where a book comes from. Not that i had a wonderful time in cancun and taco in mexico, is the great vacation and thats very nice. But a road trip in mexico, is the much more serious affair and very rewarding. The mix mexicans are so hospitable. Host one of the places that you stayed for a while. Was missus sick mexico city. You taught a writing class there. You talk about your students. He worked with in that class in mexico city, could you share a little bit about your experiences with the students and what attracted you. Paul one thing about being a traveler, you know a parasite. Going to a place and staying here i am, im hungry, im tired and needs of food and a place to stay in any different. What are you going to do. There is a certain, you know showing up in this foreign country. I thought, i want to do something. I would peace corps volunteers background. Ive got to give something. So hits impreza mexico city, and i said, i want to teach a class in mexico city in writing to students who are really good writers but they want to go make the next step. Not teenagers or high school, experience wise. This big Little English and maybe to publish a book. Off of for nothing and i will bring books with me in spanish. My books. I will drive there. And you cant charge them anything. Ill just show up and do it. Pro bono. I am retired, i am old, its a master class. What also i got to do. They were very pleased. So i got between 25 and 30 students. There are 25 students and there were five that just sort of shared up. Some 30 people men and women. Very experienced in some extremely good writers. Some of one prices in spain and mexico. When i shared up, they said here i am and got some books for you, this in mexico city and a beautiful day. You saw the beautiful beautiful city and roma. This was in roman history. Roma. He said he drove. Cape cod to houston to beaumont to nashville and so forth. I did come near here. We do not sell down. And i said, where, mcallen, then reynosa and they said you into reynosa. He said is the most dangerous city on the border. He said it is pretty dangerous. But how dangerous and they said its wicked. I said well here i am. So i got points are driving. [laughter] i said what i am trying to show you is first that i need friends in mexico and you are my friend. I will teach you. Also i want to show you that were on the same road. You leave my house and sandwich massachusetts and drive south of 95 and then 81 and then down 40 and all of the way down through munro bill and bouma. Whitney texas, partington and so forth. Reynosa mexico city. It is the same road. Billy fared to go and i could go south. We are all on the same road. Culturally as a few months on the earth, and people in the western hemisphere, our fortunes are linked, where the same road there. You make stuff, chevrolets and using them up. We said step down. Whatever it is. So i said, we are neighbors. So that was the class. They said what can we do. I said help me improve my spanish, take me to places that i like to go, dangerous places may be. Just me to people. They said where. So we had lunch, class lunch, we spoke spanish when youre in lunch and they said what he wanted to. I said lets go to a museum or anything. They said lets do this this good this museum. Theres a saint in mexico saint debt. In his new cult. Holy death. A skeleton the sign. And worshiped, very fastgrowing faith. Worshiped by people who have nothing. But holy death doesnt. You dont have to do penance, no heaven no will read she will help anybody. The cartel, everyone. So this is dangerous. So i went. I said i would like to spend some time with the set pieces who are the revolutionaries and choppers. They arranged it. The last pit of my book, i visited there and i stayed with them and give a little speech at one of their secret meetings. But the main man. At that one is. As i had 30 friends. Thirty mexican friends. I had respect. I had earned respect. And so as an older person, your man of judgment. Or people of judgment. I had earned respect. Im a tshirt. So im pablo. Just a guy in a car. Suddenly i had friends. And that is how you write about. So the book arose out of that. It wasnt just a trip to the chicken with dragon said that i had some food sorry niacin, i got sick netiquette well. Its not that. It was part of my live, very rich part of my live. Becoming a tshirt. It happened to be in africa, when i was a piece or all interior. At other little school. As a tshirt, and the bush and mullally, in a village, the whole village was my friend. They would do anything for me. They were my protectors and at that time there were animals, hyenas over they would bring me snakes. Heres a bursar bursar. We covered. Our chicken, here is the bird sir. By working there and living there and putting up with pretty much the same stuff that they are putting up with. I had friends. That is how you get through live. That is how books are written. You can always tell the superficial book from one that is been lived. And i felt that might happen lived. I think. Host is very rich. Sorry rich in its detail and its description of people and places. At this. , i would like to open this up to questions from people in the audience. We ask that if you have a question, you use the microphones. This is so everybody can hear the question. Would anybody like to ask. Paul let me ask you a question. How monday of you up into mexico. Look at that thats amazing its 80 percent of the room. How monday have been to campus. The border city. Quite a few. Look at that, morris had the world record for the most murders in 2010. They had thousands of murders. Host innovative compare and contrast with rrs el paso. Because there right across the border. One of the snakes i found interesting was that you did this a couple of times, talking about the effect of the wall on these border cities both the mexican and the american side of the particularly the mexican side and how being cut off from the tourists to a certain extent and its harder now to cross but also less of a concern of safety. The one i cant minimize the dangers in mexico because the cartels are very active. There fighting each other for territory. Theyre trying to get the turf were people get across and drugs get across in guns from the inside. All guns from mexico come from here. You cant buy a gun in mexico. Actually on obama, it was called the Paris Program really had guns that they allowed mexicans to buy guns on our side of the border and the idea was that they would be traced. How monday are you familiar with eric the attorney general. The buck stops there. But they never release the document. The Border Patrol agent help with one of those guns. In the Border Patrol agent, they will reference it. The other aspect of the border is that hundreds of thousands of mexicans, cross the border every day to work in factories or hotels in el paso and you go to used car dealer, it will be mexicans. They have crossed that day in el paso who are selling you the used car and then at 5 00 oclock, that car or get a bus and go across the border. Because its cheaper to live. Same with tijuana. A lot of people work in san diego for the towns santa zero, the other border, 11 tijuana they press every day. We crossed the border, yet to bear in mind that there will be hundreds of people a very long line theater to get into trust. These are people with fees as you come across. The close the border, every border city in the united states, will be denied labor. They will not have people working. Bu. They wont have people so the border, its not at solid, its not a fence where the people are just thriving on each side. And f theres actually a lot of back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Thats not understood. I it needs to be regulated. Ou can you cant simply have countryy l and assume that you walk in and say, here i am. The people of te border is related to their ability to cross it. As workers. So thats another thing. It is difficult, and you need to actually be in the line early in the morning and the thousands cross the cause. In a night going in the other direction. The one thing that people dont do, is what i did which is apply for the border vehicle. I found to get insurance, there is no line. To get a vehicle importation, there is no line. Its just there though say just go to that window and you pay. The only problems i had in mexico, with the police. The police on my license plate and they thought theres a gringo, and do i have a toyota four runner. In a nissan fourwheeldrive secondhand nissan. Thinking that if somebody steals with a its okay. I dont want anybody selling my four runner. The fact when they saw my nissan massachusetts plates, this copse on four occasions stop me and said youve got license plate. And since it was the problem and they said you shouldnt be driving here. You need mexican place. I shared them up late papers. What you want. What they want money. I do pay them. I mentioned this in a newspaper interview. People were scolding me staying you offered a bribe. I have been bribing people my whole live. [laughter] in india, nothing moves in india at money. You buy something something restring something. Somebody will be a favor. Africa the same thing. In nigeria system. You do something and what about my. Gimme something. Bali indonesia, paradise poly. This so long start short version is that i wanted to write. He said your passports going to expire. We do for a living, i said i retired. So i paid money. Im a retired gringo. He said what you are living. Im a retired schoolteacher. While its a live, but its not real live. [laughter] so in bali, indonesia, said to the guy, i am a tshirt. So when you are a tshirt, they recalibrate the rhyme. [laughter] so it actually, the guiding folly, how monday have you been to bali. A great place. Bribe central. Nye said, dancing girl, you dont because it is corrupt but like the fixer who took me to my hotel said what happened. I said you know what happened. What you talking about. Is it you know any said how much was it. I gave him a hundred bucks. The guy said if you dont pay me im going to put you on the next plane. So that i gave a hundred bucks i said okay is on box. Excessive enough, by the way my wife, but god through pretty inconvenient guess my wife is here but okay, well explain on the year. He said i will check. He said you are lucky. You are lucky because theres a guy here who mayday thousand. 900. This is where was he from, russia or china. In the energy business. The stupid guy said im in the oil business and they said okay. [laughter] you are lucky. Im not lucky, ive been here before with the right thing. I hate bribes. I hate the system but happens in one forum or another, this drives all of the place. The former governor of illinois is in prison for that very thing. Speedo one of the places you talk about and where you met people. Host could you tell a soul pit more about that area. Paul sort of a culturally rich as but economically the poorest. Like kenya. Thats not much money. They have the music and food there is a truism. The past survives and is poor. If you go to a very poor village, or town in tennessee, they likely still playing music they paid late hundred years ago. Why. They dont have money to leave and they just keep it. There in one spot. They are so poor. In maine, you hear people, they are very poor in the state of maine. Meiners. And they have deep roots. In a culture is intact in the same way. The past of a place, survives and is poor. Im not romanticizing poverty and just staying the ditto place like this and where people are very poor they still have the traditions and their music and food and they dont have money. You could say or not poor, which still have any money. So spent a lot of time there. With doctor alexander reference was a san prisco tornado who was at the time, he died a month ago. Lucky me. I was introduced to him and we headed off me was the same edge as me. It was mexicos greatest living paper. Honest. In an activist two. Very anti gmo crops, very anti his own government. Think about trump for the united states, their focus on their government. So meeting him, he is from which it on, which had an earthquake. They are still recovering from the earthquake. A very good one. Hundreds and hundreds died in buildings knockdown. Does anyone know the name francisco, tornado. As a chapter in the book about him. The smithsonian magazine, in july, june or july. Piece by me about him which illustrated his work. Which ceramics sculpture iron sculpture paintings drawings everything is just wonderful painter. It met him and spent a lot of time with them. He epitomized oaxaca, he really and i is for money. Anybody and he made snakes that sold for millions. If you look up to that of, toledo, ohio. Look up auction prices millions. He establishes libraries, is the library just for black people. When his library. His way this was live. Their walkout and is just for white people. As a publishing house, another library of paintings and images graphic art and the like. Our in books. He started soup kitchens need it money and he dresses, they simply live very simply. He gives his money away. If you saw him or where you you live, you would say this guy is on a fixed income. Actually he is the multi millionaire who did good work. With his money. And i like him, or relate to anyone was my edge which is 70 plus because being lyft through the same. Civil rights movement, vietnam war, i was in vietnam as a journalist. Music bob dylan, kennedy, but of eisenhower to maybe and its same turbulence. That i can totally relate to. James baldwin same folks. And we talked a lot about it. It been in france so toledo was for the aspect of him, the richness of mexico, you meet someone comedies will read a great artist and above all, hospitable friendly and funny human being. Just tonight. No attitude. Just a busy guy working most of the time and we were talking and i similar the same edge, he said you are healthier for me. The center come on. They said no ive got a bad heart. But enough, when i wrote the article in the smithsonian, came out in june his wife said francisco his very happy with the article he wants to give you something. I said well thank you very much what. She said painting. G77 paintings. He sick me a painting. She said and pay for the dhl. Missus fabulous painting by him. A month later he was dead. So thats a mexican story which is the guy with a heart of gold serious artist and activist. He was when mcdonalds wanted to build the mcdonalds franchise outlet in his the middle of oaxaca, agent oaxaca, 500 years of mexican spanish traditions. Make donalds old archers be right there. He said if you do that, on strip naked and im going to go naked and handout mollies. [laughter] a whole bunch of people and they said you even Start Building this thing, this monstrosity where the food is great were going to go naked and they had the tamale. Like when the college, and art project this projects going to be naked tamale. [laughter] and people were against it. They were seeing tamale see hamburger snow. Tamale see hamburger snow so that was about ten years ago or so. So thats something. I mentioned in the book and i mentioned another artist there who said it was made. Roll going to do it. Thats another matter mexican story. But the painting, one of the times when were talking, was occupied he said, this is an example of his generosity. It is just finding it painting. Any sieves of bronco shrimp. Anything you like trump i said i love trump. So give me the picture. So i slain that. That just doesnt happen. The color my feeling about mexico, of course. It wasnt all sweetness and live. I had a lot of different experiences and there in the book. Host thats one of the snakes i really liked about the book. It is good the bad beautiful the ugly, it was all there. It is a wellfounded trip. One place that you talk a lot about that we havent really talked much about is kappa. Can you tell me a little bit about it. Paul chapa, the state about chapa. Have any of you have saw the movie treasurer of the place. Do you know who the author is. Exactly right. The triton. Where was born. Mysterious guy though right. So hit two or three identities. The drive in. His name was actually auto they think they know where he was orbiting wife he also wrote a book called the bone board, liquors the cost and picture, the cotton pickers. Anyway it was an anarchist and left us and went to mexico and wrote the treasurer of syria monday. He wrote five books in chiapas. But he was a radical and revolutionary who went there in a number of different identities. He wrote a book about the death ship i highly recommend him. Hes not a great writer but his stories are great. Its very funky. Maybe in german it makes sense but translations the writing. This book. No one ever knew who he was. Anyway, he is writing about chapa his 1920s, and even before. So its always been a place where very very impoverished communities of indians living in the forest. People want the timber, or they minerals there. And still the case. For years and years, and actually ever since the spanish, when spanish, fuse years after they were to drop us and taxes. The local indians were chuck were not going to pay you. There are some major battles in the 1530s, the 1540s against spanish. So they had a number of people who tried to describe it or save them. The most recent, is the man with a group of people who 1981 when into the jungle. They call themselves the. How monday are you are familiar. Very interesting group. Its not like, castro took over cuba in about a month after they went in, it through in the basically went through them but he does of salt. They took over. It took over the government. That was castro. Relatively quick resolution. Revolution. From 1980 went to 1990, 1994. In villages, learning the language, the ancient mayan languages, trying to figure out what the people wanted. They knew they were oppressed and the Mexican Government was taking their land away. So the land a lot of native people of the world, land is it something you sell. Native americans never sold their land. They got away in massachusetts make them up some muskets and give them some land. Thus the story of massachusetts is about pilgrims or refugees from england colonials say amma giving them some pathetic thing and then getting land. So in the book mayflower same in hawaii. They had firearms. The firearms were credit the key thing in taking or material objects. Plus his hands. Same chapa. That didnt work. The government taking land they thought were going to protect these people. They thought, that the local people encompass, thinner protect themselves. So 11 years past dozen years past actually, and on january 1st, 1994, a group of horsemen came out of the jungles very dramatic. They were wearing masks. Enhanced we came out and read a book proclamation impossible staying with people jobless, we demand that the Mexican Government listen to us, you cant take our land for the and more, there is another abomination taking place. They were totally against nasa. They thought as a flirtation. Even now factories across the border are learning a pathetic lot of money a buck an hour. And the conditions are terrible. Gmo crops are going in. Naturally the response was fight them. So there battles. I thought they were honorable people read one respective part of the ira in islands, the uta in ireland. The data in spain. Red guards infection in germany. It shows civilians. Name a revolutionary group you wrote and south america, he killed civilians. 5000 people were killed. On the mainland. The ira thought nothing of blowing up people in a bar or pub market square. He never killed a civilian. They fought the mexican army. In the mexican army were killing civilians. Writing about them in talking to them, but this is the group of people i would like to get acquainted with just to hear what theyre knowing. Im not staying there are peace corps volunteers there very tenacious and i visited some communities i was impressed. They had schools. So they asked me to speak at one of their gatherings and i did so. I talked about the mortar. Maybe 400 people in the village. 250,000 people in the community and the Collet Colonia and one high school. So essentially im selling a nafta. Its great thing, wonderful thing. But one pathetic school for a court million people. Thats all right. Im not staying it is all bad but its complicated. A consciousness of and writing about topics, other people have written about it but he wrote about it a lot. German exile living in mexico city. It is very dead by the way. Commandant take marcos amber marcus in the book. It was a great experience and little me meeting the revolutionary. So i thought, slightly ejector exaggerated found this part, if you prove you know a serious person you are not going to mock them and you are seriously interested, he said to me dont make this an anecdote. Come back again. Find out more. You are welcome. No one is ever seen him that went out a mask. Horse people. When they come, hundreds of them some pretty impressive actually. Host thank you very much. [applause]. Paul thank you for being here and coming in being readers. If your you would like me to send a book or two. Host start the cell at the tent [inaudible conversations] now on cspan2s booktv, more television for serious