Transcripts For CSPAN2 Boeing CEO Govt Officials Testify On

CSPAN2 Boeing CEO Govt Officials Testify On 737 MAX July 13, 2024

This hearing will come to order. Thank you all for being here today. One year ago today lion air, flight 610 crashed into the sea shortly after takeoff from jakarta, indonesia. All 189 people on board perished. Five months later Ethiopian Airline 302 departed out of ethiopia just like lion air flight 610, ethiopian flight 302 experienced problems shortly after takeoff and crashed. All 157 persons on board died. Both of these accidents were entirely preventible. We cannot fathom the pain experienced by the families of those 346 human beings who were lost. Many family members are here today and we appreciate their attendance. I appreciate many of them meeting with members of the committee over time. As chairman of this committee i promise their loved ones that we are working to obtain a full answer as to how to prevent future tragedies. These families deserve answers, accountability, and action, and the public deserves no less. The type of aircraft involved in both accidents is a 737 max8 manufactured by boeing. International aviation safety regulators began grounding the max the day after the ethiopian crash. On march 13 federal Aviation Administration formally grounded the aircraft in the United States. The maxs return to service is contingent on boeings work with the faa to test and certify fixes to the mcas Flight Control system which activated during both crashes. In order for the max to return to service, International Regulators also need to be satisfied that its safe to fly. As a certification process continues, many questions remain about boeings actions. And the faas actions during the design, development, and certification processes, as well as the operation of the max. Todays hearing is divided into two panels. There will be known the five minute rule will be observed strictly because we have so many people who wish a participate. On the first panel dennis muilenburg, president and ceo of boeing will testify on behalf of the aircraft manufacturer. He is accompanied by John Hamilton chief engineer for Boeing Commercial Airplanes who will provide Technical Expertise. Our second panel will examine these issues from the governments perspective. The Witnesses Today include National Transportation safety Board Chairman robert somwalt and the joint technical review, chris hart. Ment overseas the ntsb which released a report and recommendations regarding the max certification. Chairman hart led the jatr, that included with the tasked reviewing the Flight Control systems. The jtr has submitted broad recommendations to the faa. And chairman hart has extensive past Government Service in aviation safety, but he is a private citizen today who agreed to lead the jtr. We have many concerns that boeing should address today. We need to know if boeing and the faa rushed to certify the max. In particular, critics have focused on the mcas development and testing. The jtr criticized boeings communication with the faa on mcass development after the system was modified to act at lower air speeds and jtr criticized for outdated regulations, guidance and certification procedures and failing to incorporate realistic Human Behavior factors into its assumptions. The n. T. S. B. Called into question boeings and faas assumptions about pilot reaction during mcas activation. These were important for stressful situations with multiple alerts going off in the cockpit. Our witnesses should address the company and safety regulators actions regarding max certification in general and mcas in particular. The process for certifying the max with a Close Partnership between boeing and faa. Under a decades old system called organization, design, authorization, or oda, the faa has delegated certainly certification activities to the oda holder, in this case, boeing. While the oda has been used to certify many aircraft over the years, some have criticized the system for permitting an inappropriately close relationship between companies and their safety regulator. Indeed, email correspondence dating from as early as 2015, between the maxs former chief technical pilot, mark forkner, and faa personnel released on october 18th reflect a disturbing level of casualness and flippancy that seemed to corroborate the instances. I was disturbed to learn of an instant message conversation between mr. Forkner and a colleague in which he acknowledged misinforming the faa. Boeing should have notified the faa about that conversation immediately upon its discovery. Although faa is not testifying today, let me express my frustration with the agencys lack of responsiveness to my request dating back to april of this year for documents relevant to the 737 max as part of the investigation that i opened as chairman, based on whistleblower disclosures. The relationship between regulating agencies and organizations they regulate is important, but so are the internal reforms that boeing is implementing. Witnesses should provide their views on the oda system and whether or not reforms are needed. I invite mr. Muilenburg to describe the steps boeing is taking to improve aviation safety and to ensure that technical experts never experience undue pressure to put profits and relationships ahead of safety. The Committee Oversight is not limited to past actions. The reviews by both jtr and ntsb note that future Aircraft Systems are likely to be even more complex and interdependent than current models, managing interfaces between humans and machines will become even more important as automation increases. At the same time, commercial aviation is set to continue expanding around the globe. Many future pilots will fly in countries without the same training requirements and Safety Standards that we have in the United States. We welcome the witnesss thoughts on how to improve design, development and certification in the future to account for these major changes. This hearing will by no means end our inquiry. Additional oversight hearings will be held. The committee will carefully review the final lion air report which was released on friday, as well as the Ethiopian Airlines report which is forth coming. The fight will consider the findings and recommendations from jtr and ntsb and all other reviews. I now recognize the distinguished Ranking Member, senator cantwell for thank you mr. Chairman and i, too, want to recognize the families of the victims of the lion air and ethiopian tragedies some of whom are here today. I cant imagine the loss and enduring pain you must feel. I thank you for your vigilance on this issue just as weve seen the families of vigilance help us improve safety for the future. Right now, mr. Muilenburg, these families, millions of Airline Passengers and over 150,000 Aerospace Workers want to know what were doing to fix what went wrong and what did go wrong. To date, we havent gotten all of those answers. Hopefully todays hearing will help provide some. One thing is crystal clear, if you want to be the leader in aviation manufacturing, you have to be the leader in aviation safety. Aviation demand, especially for 737s and single planes is exploding to 101 growth over the next 10 years, Something Like 35,000 planes and 3 trillion. I think thats actually 20 years. But we cannot have a race for commercial airports become a race to the bottom when it comes to safety. The company, the board, cannot prioritize profits over safety. Safety always has to be jobs one. So it is troubling to hear that boeing may have skirted the faa certification process over a desire by airlines to have more fuel efficient planes, but without Pilot Training. Now, this issue of lowering standards is permeating through all of aviation. Were dealing with it here in the committee. My democratic colleagues have led the charge to try to stop companies coming here to say they dont want to have the same training for copilots on the regional jets because they dont have enough pilots, or the issue my colleague has examined on rest requirements for cargo pilots having the same requirements for rest as passenger planes. Thank god captain sullen burger, the hero of the hudson made it clear, when youre in an emergency, the pilot and copilot dont have time a lot of time to communicate. So thats why today we need answers to how the first 737 max certification process was done, and we especially need transparency on this process of review before the 737 max is put in the air again. The public needs to know and fully understand what testing, what review, what processes were conducted, both by boeing and the faa before this plane is put back in the air. We also want to know today about boeings Safety Culture, whether boeing employees raised safety concerns that were not listened to. Whether there was enough testing and complex System Integration and information into a cockpit alert system that we now know was flawed and whether there was even enough data presented to the faa. These are questions that are important, including outsourcing of engineering and coding. There are many questions about software and cockpit information and overload. I guarantee you, the faa codes and laws are clear when it comes to the standards for certification. Yes, software and automation, flight training, better rest requirements for pilots have all led to ten years between 20 2009 to 2018 as the safest ten years in aviation history. But more software and automation without robust Third Party Testing and validation will lead us to where we are today. We should note that the last five aviation accidents have all involved this issue of automation and pilot response to automation, whether its lion air, ethiopian, the asiana, the french or qantas 330 accidents, they were all in response to an automation and command and response to the pilot. Thats why last week, i introduced legislation with my colleagu colleagues, on Better Safety management systems, better cockpit prioritization and a new faa center of excellence on flight automation and Human Factors. The faa needs the best engineers for the future and stay ahead on this Human Behavior response to new automation. Were dealing i see people here on the transportation automobile side. Its the same issue in advanced vehicles, what automation exists and how do humans respond to it. So i look forward to also hearing from chairman somwalt and chris hart on improving the safety review process that weve included in this legislation. I would just say, again, our sorrows are nothing like the families who are with us today. But i do want to note the 737 max accidents have struck at the heart of everyone in the northwest. Soon after the ethiopian crashes, seattle firefighter approached me and asked if i thought he could get a job at boeing. He said, i just want to go there and make sure we get the safety right. Everyone feels that way. Generation of workers in the Pacific Northwest have dedicated their lives to aviation excellence and safety and that spirit lives on in everett and renton. So this isnt a question about line workers, this is a question about a corporate view from chicago, whether theres enough attention to manufacturing and certification. You should take, you know, offense to the fact that people say its a Great Company not being run correctly. So for the 346 people who trusted boeing without a second thought, we need to get this right. These families are counting on us. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator cantwell. Mr. Muilenburg, you have submitted an extensive written statement, it will be entered in full in the record at this point. Youre now and i understand mr. Hamilton will not be making a formal statement. So, mr. Muilenburg, you are recognized at this point to summarize your Opening Statement for five minutes. Thank you. Thank you for being here, sir. Chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell, committee members, thank you for the opportunity to join you today and we share your commitment to aviation safety. Before we start today id like to speak directly to the families of the victims who are here with us. On behalf of myself, and the boeing company, we are sorry, deeply and truly sorry. As a husband and father myself, im heartbroken by your losses. I think about you and your loved ones every day, and i know our entire boeing team does as well. I know that probably doesnt offer much comfort and healing at this point, but i want you to know that we carry those memories with us every day and every day that drives us to improve the safety of our airplanes and our industry, and that will never stop. Im grateful and humbled to be here today and to be able to say these words to the families directly, and i want to convey our absolute commitment to safety, our commitment to learning, our commitment to rebuilding the publics confidence in what we do, and to preventing accidents from like this like this from ever, ever happening again. We will never forget and that is our commitment Going Forward. Mr. Chairman, i know this committee has many questions about the max. Well do our best today to answer all of those questions. While one of the accidents is still under investigation we know both accidents involved the repeated activation of a Flight Control system called mcas, which responded to erroneous signals from a sensor that measures the airplanes angle of attack. Based on that weve enhanced mcas in three ways. First it will compare information from both sensors instead of one before act evaluated. Second, mcas will only activate a single time. Mcas will never put more input than the pilot can counter act using the controller alone. And pilots have the ability to override mcas at anytime. Weve brought the best of boeing to this effort. We spent over 100,000 engineering and test hours, weve flown more than 800 test flights. Simulator sessions from over 800 participants and 49 customers and 41 global regulators. Ive flown on a couple of flights myself. This has taken longer than expected, but were committed to getting it right. During this process, weve worked closely with the faa and other regulators, weve provided them documentation, had them fly the simulators, answered their questions, and regulators around the world should regular rigorously scrutinize the max and only return to flight when theyre completely satisfied with safety. The public deserves nothing less. Mr. Chairman, today and every day over 5 Million People will board a boeing airplane and fly safely to their destination. Decades of cooperation and innovation by industry and regulators and the rigorous oversight of this committee have reduced accidents 95 over the last 20 years, but no number other than zero accidents is ever acceptable. We can and must do better. Weve been challenged and changed by these accidents. Weve made mistakes and we got some things wrong. Were improving and were learning, and were continuing to learn. We established a permanent Aerospace Safety committee of our board. We stood up a new Safety Organization. We strengthened our Engineering Organization so all engineers report up through. And we have have pledged 100 million to this evident and hired Renowned Experts in this area to ensure families can access these funds as quickly as possible. No amount of money can bring back what was lost, but we can at least help the families meet their financial needs. Mr. Chairman, i started at boeing more than 30 years ago as a summer intern in seattle. I was a junior at iowa state university, studying engineering, having grown up on a family farm in iowa. I was awestruck to work at the company that brought the jet age to the world and helped land a person on the moon. Today im still inspired by what boeing does and by the remarkable men and women who are committed to its outstanding legacy. But these heartbreaking accidents and the memories of 346 lives lost are now part of that legacy. It is our solemn duty to learn from them and we will. Recently theres been much criticism of boeing and our culture. We understand and deserve this scrutiny, but i know the people of boeing. They are more than 150,000 of the most dedicated, honest, hardworking men and women in the world. And their commitment to safety, quality and integrity is unparalleled and resolute. Well stay true to those values because we know our work demand the utmost excellence. Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much, mr. Muilenburg. During my Opening Statement i mentioned an instant message conversation and then a series of emails. The instant message conversation was between the 737 max chief technical and a colleague and it expresses concerns about the operation of the mcas. Boeing knew about this instant message for months, but failed to share it with the faa until recently. With regard to the emails, again, mr. Forkner, the former max chief technical pilot calls for removing any mention of the mcas Flight Control system from the flight crew operating manual. He talks about jedi mind tricking of regulators, with at least one person who works for the faa. So with regard to the instant message conversation, when were you made aware of the existence of the november 2016 messages . Mr. Chairman, as i recall, i was made aware of that message earlier this year. It was discovered as part of a document gathering process in response to a government investigation. So it was after the crashes you . You were made aware of it this y

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