Activist. Uighur human rights activist. Good morning, everybody. Please take your seats. Were going to start our program. L welcome to the hasnt visited. I am nina shea, i directed the center for religious freedom here at hudson, and i went to wish everyone a happy holidays. And im also, what to draw your attention to the crisis in china against the uighur Muslim Population there. It is one of the worst human rights and religious persecution situationsth of our day. In fact, of our age. It is both a crisis of religious persecution and of Human Rights Violations of epic proportions. In we will be hearing more about that through the session today. All people should be concerned for china as a rising power, aims to make this a model not only for other groups within its borders but is exporting this model. It is of deep concern to me as someone who monitors religious freedom around the world, and i knowio it is to you hear here s room in the audience. And it is my deep privilege to introduce ambassador at large for religious freedom of the u. S. State Department Sam brownback. He is going to be giving our keynote address in just a moment. I have known ambassador brownback for about 25 years when he was in the senate and we working together on other human rights crises, including sudan which today is actually a source of hope in the world. Im very pleased to see him now in this position as the religious freedom ambassador. Someone who has been empowered under thiS Administration, and congress, and he isation, and really the institutional face of religious freedom as a priority and u. S. Foreign policy. His ministerial that he has organized, innovative have brought hundreds, in fact, thousands of people from all over the world who are deeply vested in religious freedom. These are survivors of religious persecution, advocates, World Leaders from across the globe. And please join me in welcoming Sam Brownback. [applause] thanks, nina. I appreciate that really. Its a pleasure to be back at hudson. You would find this interesting, i was on the phone with the high minutes of sudan which was not a normal thing for me 25 years ago were fighting the regime and they were statesponsored terrorism that the United States experienced unfortunately firsthand, but i think it does show it to keep after an issue and you on the right side you can win and you will win. Im very hopeful it is one of the sources of great hope in the world today. We hope things continue to move forward in the right direction. Also want to thank Hudson Institute for hosting the Vice President and secretary of state mike pompeo at different times to speak in hudson regarding china. Those have been wonderful speeches. Ive looked at both of those and they offer a template on issues of china, the u. S. Policy towards china. ThiS Administration has been the first in decades to take on china and the repressive regime and have done an absolutely i think brilliant, tough, good job in confronting china and its importants we do that. Im pleased to join the discussion now and it is a key priority for thiS Administration. The peoples republic of china, the government, their Brutal Campaign of repression currently going on against uighurs, and other muslims. My thanks to Hudson Institute and the distinguished experts that are here today for keeping the conversation in washington going. ThiS Administration is recognized as important analyze and respond toze these abuses fm all angles so i appreciate the discussion and the insights at todays events. I have said before and i will keep saying it, hopefully one day it is no longer true. China is i at war with faith but it is a war they will not win. In the meantime, while it continues, Chinese Government continues to engage in a highstakes game of subterfuge, attempting to cloak the truth and misdirection and deception about its two intentions and activities but we will not be fooled. The Chinese Government can refer to Inhumane Treatment of religious and ethnic minority groups as war on terror as counted religious extremism, it can label its internment camps as socalled Vocational Training centers and even claim that detainees have graduated, but the evidence is clear. Clearly this is not just a war on faith but a war on truth and international o norms. And we know the facts. Earlier this year ambassador of sales and iye coauthored an opd plainly stating the repressive coping Action Campaign is not counterterrorism. Its one more chapter in beijings long history of oppression, oppressing tibetan buddhist, christians, and others. Terrorism is a very real threat in many parts of the world including in the United States and in china, conflating peaceful religious practices and identity with terrorism is beyond disingenuous. Itsis unconscionable. Also unconscionable is imposing pervasive hightech surveillance and monitoring throughout the region. This unfortunately i believe is the future of what much oppression is going to look like. I think you are saying the front wave of it in sin john. That also from them prevent muscle subduing the regular prayers or share the risk of printing chill from attending mosque are studying the quran. Removing them from held in place them in orphanages. The Chinese Government is destroying mosques, symmetries and other sites and, of course, detaining more than 1 million members of Muslim Minority groups and internment camps since april 2017. And our current they world in 2019, 1 million muslim people are in internment camps. Thats really almost unthinkable in this day and age and yet it exists right now. These are the abuses that the prc government is trying to hide and deny. So i believe it was a game changer when the china cables recently came to light. As secretary pompeo said about these reports are consistent with an overwhelming and growing body of evidence that the Chinese Communist party is committing Human Rights Violations and abuses against individuals in mass detention. And in newspapers you saw the background and the thinking of it. These document reveal the ccp is orchestration, that is orchestrated and this is not random. Its intentional. Those who have been inclined to believe the prc government or who were bullied into believing it can now read these documents and see for themselves the depth whats happeningelves the depth in sin john. It really think about china, you also know that the prc governments campaign of repression is not unique to send john in part because the ccp first installed the Regions Party secretary in the bet where he tested at a massive grid of physical and technological surveillance, cameras, police stations, databases, police and security forces, life in tibet including religious life was forever i transformed. Considered a success. He took his playbook to xinjian xinjiang, apple ever find his s on an unfathomable scale. Earlier this week the economist magazine noted the parallels between the bet and xinjiang and his role in replicating repression. My fear and i think of the Hudson Institute as well is that these sorts of replications of repression are going to continue and increase around the world. They need to be stopped now. So the document strength, what we know about these abuses and thiS Administrations ongoing resolve is to respond to them. Importantly, we continue to promote accountability for those who commit human rights abuses around the world. That is why the department of state has prepas previously dd china as a country of particular concern under the International Religious freedom act of 1998 for engaging in or tolerating particular severe violations of religious freedom. Such religious Freedom Violations are hardly the only human right abuses that the prc government is perpetrating in xinjiang and elsewhere. But when a country doesnt respect the right to freely practice ones faith and belief, and everything that that entails, we often see other rights significantly imperiled, these include the freedom of association, assembly, speech and the freedom of movement. In addition to the country of particular concern designation that is specific to religious Freedom Violations, we have seen a multifaceted u. S. Response. The crisis in xinjiang featured prominently at both ministerial that nina mentioned as well is at the president s global call for religious freedom event at the u. N. , the first ever by head of state to call the topic of religious freedom at the u. N. General assembly. There was resulting powerful testimony from uighur survivors and Family Members, a tunic consecutive statements of concern c under scorn the prc government escalating repression underscoring against religious groups in china. I want to stop in just a moment and note as welcome last week there was anotherer testimony on xinjiang on capitol hill and i ranmi into three young people fm xinjiang who testified, two of them told the Family Members convicted of seven to nine years and put in jail for seven to nine years, for them, the younger Family Member out speaking. God bless the people from xinjiang that are willing to speak out. This comes at a significant cost to them personally, to their families. A number of agencies have executed as well targeted actions. The department of state the postvisa sanctions on chinese officials for the role in the campaign of repression in sentient. The departmentct of commerce add 28 Chinese Governmental and commercial entities to its entity list which prevents them from bike use products are importing used technology that could be used to suppress religious and ethnic minorities in sentient. The u. S. Customs and Border Patrol issued a withhold release order to ensure that products made by chinese r company in end up ininese r company in american to stores. We welcomed the role that a growing number of International Actors play in calling out these abuses. We want to see more of this in the months ahead and will continue to encourage stakeholders to take upe this mantle. Andhe multilateral response is similarly vital. The United States and four of the countries cohosted a Panel Discussion on the margins of u. N. General assembly onis the humann rights crisis in xinjian. More than 30 u. N. Member states attended along with eu representatives and oic delegation and 20 ngos ultimately it was standing room only. A truly remarkable turnout importantly several uighur survivors and Family Members addressed the roommth were ableo share their harrowing stories. They provide an eyewitness they provide an eyewitness this is factual testimony that they provide. This is no longer allegations. These are eyewitnesses. The United States is among 23 signatories to a joint statement on Human Rights Violations and abuses in xinjiang delivered at the u. N. Third committee in october. Im also working withct a groupo launch a priority announced at this years of ministerial. Its called the International Religious freedom alliance. Once launched it will be the first ever International Body devoted to freedom of religion or belief. Bringing together likeminded countries to confront religious freedom challenges and this will be the first new International HumanRights Organization in a generation. Te its focused again just on the issues of International Religious freedom. We hope to have stood up and launched the first part of this next year. Im excited i this opportunity and currently reaching out to a number of countries to bring them on board. As i i close, i want to humanie the repression in xinjiang and elsewhere in china. These are innocent civilians, peacefully practicing their faith as their conscious leads youre dreaming of prosperity and happiness for themselves and for their children. They do not need their way of thinking reprogrammed. They do not need their government controlling and monitoring every aspect of their lives. They need, they deserve freedom. Freedom of religion to practice their faith peacefully as they see fit. Thats what i i and others in S Administration are working towards. I want to say thank you again to the Hudson Institute for hosting this discussion today and inviting me, for previously hosting the Vice President and for hosting the secretary of state to discuss human rights abuses inin china. The expertise you bring to the discussion is tremendously helpful to thiS Administration, continues to employ, that we continue to play a variety of tools as we call on peoples republic of china, the Chinese Communist party, to immediately release all those arbitrarily detained andim to end this kryptonian policies that for more than two years have terrorized its religious and ethnic minority groups in xinjiang. We will continue tos push back n chinas war on faith and i hope youll continue to join us in that endeavor. Thank you very much. God bless you all. [applause] welcome, everyone. Take you, very much ambassador brownback, and nina for introducing. Thank you to all of you and you are cspan viewers for being with us here today at hudson for this afternoon Panel Discussion on xinjiang and u. S. Policy response. The institute launched this program of seminars not xinjiang in early 2017 to help challenge i think what can be best described as the u. S. Post9 11 political complacency over what the Chinese Communist party claim is its own war on terrorism in the vast northwestern territory of the prc empire known as xinjiang. That u. S. Reappraisal was urgently needed then and, in fact, its been long overdue for decades the uighur muslim people that suffer from institutionalized oppression and discrimination in their own homeland which they call east turkestan. In august 2016 the installation of01 the wall make clear that beijing would be wrapping up its efforts to subjugate the uighur and of the peoples of east turkestan. Secretary jim was already known for his harsh policies in tibet and that his command over the last three years xinjiang has been transferred into the most heavily surveilled and oppressive garrison state that the world has arguably ever seen. Communist party has since gone to extraordinary lengths to suppress information and propagandized about what it is doing in xinjiang both inside china and around the world including here in the United States. Should say back in september of 2018, a longtime uighur human rights activist and also an american citizen spoke your on the panel atme Hudson Institute. Six days later two of her Family Members and xinjiang, her aunt and her sister vanished. Their whereabouts are still unknown today. But what we do note thanks to the vital work of three of her petals and countless others many who have risked their lives is thatat upwards of 1 million uighurs, over 10 of the population, has been forced into mass internment camps for i ideological reeducation. The prc is clear intent and its war on uighurs fits the very original definition of decimation. Chinese commies rose have dismissed reports about the internment camps and the abuses inside them as fake news spread by western journalists and think tanks. They have i instead tried at persuading a large part of the world until now that the camps are, in fact,e Vocational Training centers, which uighurs voluntarily attend. Last month the leak of classified party documents obtained by the International Consortium of investigative journalists revealed that the parties story about xinjiang like so much else is a lie. The china cables exposed in chilling detail how the party has planned and implemented the Largest Scale persecution of a h distinct ethnic religiousus grop since the end of world war ii. In short, the papers provide us a clips into the parties blueprint for the destruction of the people. Here with us today to discuss all this and what it should mean for theit u. S. Policy are three leading u. S. Based experts. Im happy to welcome back bethany a premium who is now with axios and anybody who would region think about china these days knows her byline both from axios and internationalin consortium for Investigative Journalism and also from the daily beast and Foreign Policy. Second will have a dream sense is that a fellow at the victims of communism memorial foundation. His research as many of you know has been key in establishing the existence of the camps in the first place and in documenting the buildup of the prc police state. Third, will hear from nury turkel, a lawyer who chairs the uighur rights project which he found in 2003. Nury want to add was born in ia time in his reeducation camp at the height of the cultural revolution. Important to keep that in mind. After we hear from our speakers would both have q a session this afternoon. We will be conducting that a little differently today. All of you will be receiving pieces of paper y and pencils so please write on them concise question and will be collecting them about halfway through this panel this morning so we can address them when we have time for russians at the end. Thank you again. With that we will y start with bethany. That you so much for the introduction, i thank you again to the Hudson Institute for hosting that another panel on this important issue. I served as the lead reporter for the china cable project alongside 75 journalists around the world. About three months ago i was handed a stack of documents that look like this and said, here, you have twond months. When i first saw them i thought this is very important here the more i look into them, the more i realize how truly groundbreaking and important they were. I will briefly talk about each set of documents andea then go into the Key Takeaways from each one. First, we have what we call a telegram or a more colloquially the operating manual for the camp. That was disseminated in november 2017 by we also have a set of classified Intelligence Briefings known as bulletins that detail for the very first time they detailed insight look at the operations of the integrated joint operation platform or i gop which is a Data Collection and Artificial Intelligence power predictive policing platform that is behind much of the very advanced police state that we see and xinjiang. And thirdly, we have a uighur Language Court document that shows the tragedy of what happens to one individual man who was sentenced ten years in prison, simply for telling fellow muslims to pray regularly. So first the telegram Operations Manual for the camps. This is for the first time in the Chinese Government own words and admission that the camps are not voluntary but are, in fact, highly securitize prisonlike prison centers. In the own words the first section which talks about security urges Camp Personnel to prevent escapes, to prevent abnormal death. Those two back phrases and the instructions given to carry those out prove that the Chinese Communist government, the transcomm is government speaking points about the camps are lies. It is not normal for a boarding school or Vocational Education center to prevent the escape of the students, to put up high walls, to command, to demand absolute secrecy of the personnel, to put up barbed wire and guards to get all these things are expressly spelled out in this document. To prevent abnormal desk is even more chilling. What it shows is that the entire party state in xinjiang knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that by putting these people in these facilities, they were putting their lives at grave risk. K. Now, it is a very barebones minimal degree of good that the command is to prevent abnormal death and not to cause abnormal death. What that indicates to me is that at least as of november 2017 these are not at least intended to be mass murder camps. However, it is clear beyond a shadow of a doubt in the Chinese Government own words that the conditions are dire and that the security level and the lack of oversight of these camps is deadly or potentially deadly. A few of the highlights highlight is not the correct word. More chilling statements from these documents is the use of a classification and points is inside the camps. That is a miniature version of perhaps social credit systems. Detainees are awarded or docked points race oned their behavior, and this, part of the points are awarded based on test scores. Those points are used in part to determine when detainees are able to be released. This could be stated as perhaps the was most highstakes when it determines your freedom or perhaps even your life, life of your Family Members. And i will highlight once again that one of the final commands in the telegram is to maintain strict secrecy. This is very significant because it seems thehe chinese governmet has settled as their current talking point regarding the camps on the efficacy of these camps as being positive, a positive way to create a peaceful, stable and prosperous xinjiang. Good counterterrorism policy but they are proud of it and the other countries should emulate it. However, as of november 2017 they were ashamed of it and they knew that it would be condemned by the International Community if it was made public which is why they had special directions about how to keep these camps a secret. I will move on briefly to the bulletin. What you have are the internal workings of how Police Officers on the local level in xinjiang were communicating and receiving orders from an Artificial Intelligence powered kind of policing system known as ijop. One part of this, theres one directed that i start sat with four literally hours because i found it so shocking. In one week i gop which is some set of algorithms spit out the names of more than 24,000 people, and set the stage to local Police Departments in a timeframe of when we come pointf 15,000 were detained and put into camps, based on some unknown set of algorithms. This system was determining that these people were suspicious. These people were being rounded up and put into camps taste on up and put into camps taste on them. It is a total violation of human rights. This is not effective policing. It is without exaggeration a real life manifestation of the movie minority report. There was no question, so the rest of that particular ballston delved into issues regarding this mass detention of more than 50,000 people. The people were not how to know they were guilty . The issues that were raised were why will be able to detain even more of those people, the almost 9000 people who escaped. Why were we not able to dictate them . We get an image of this machine that set in motion that, you know, a similar kind of industrialized your credit highly technical way had enabled as we saw in world war ii the separation between the morality and the moral obligation of individuals and the actual command. So the Police Officers are not having to make decisions. They are removed from that. They are just following the orders and it makes Human Rights Violations on a massive scale much more possible for the human beings who have been passed with carrying them out, and i will leave it at that. Real quick before go to aging. Do you have a sense of what the Chinese People themselves know about the china cables and about the camps in xinjiang . I will say that the Chinese Government in may denied me a visa to go to china. Because of that i have not been able to speak on the ground with Chinese People themselves. However, my understanding from reading men reports and having to read chinese social media which is highly censored, etso cetera, and from speaking with people who are on the ground is that most Chinese People have no idea of what is going on in xinjiang. Certainly that was true when youre a a go, that they had no sense there was any kind of regime of surveillance or mass detentionn there. Now because the Chinese Government has come out with an official line of propaganda, some Chinese People are aware that our perhaps facilities, some Vocational Educational Training Centers but they dont have anyt idea. I did, in fact, i have spoken, ive had phone calls with people in china who have tried to spread the word. And their friends and Family Members do not believe in because it seems unbelievable. On top of that i would add very quickly there is a deepseated prejudice and a sense of regularly practiced discrimination that they have long practiced against uighurs. There are these prejudices and stereotypes of uighurs the criminals. This is not true of course. However, there is no force to push back against that and so they have a predilection to things that perhaps uighurs deserve whatever was coming to them. Thank you. Adrian . Thank you. Thank you. Its a privilege to be invited for the first time to the Hudson Institute. Its my pleasure to be and to give you a very short presentation. The attempts here that im going to make is to string together and tied together the three unprecedented aspect of beijings and to look at the longterm implications. The first is the internment for reeducation, which we all know about and just heard about. The second is intergenerational separation which is a longterm plan, and the third is coercive labor which is also part of the longterm scheme. Internment, besides the china cables and the xinjiang papers which gave the overall idea of the internment strategy, more localized information, gives us some very specific insight into how internment works and also what it does, what usually the purpose of the internment for reeducation. Interestingly, the available data shows and this is published in my paper that came out on november 24, at the same time as the china cables, that the internment campaign for reeducation is clearly targeted influence in society. We already know about academic, musicians, artists and intellectuals being targeted. On the ground its really household pets, typically males, especially ages 3059 with a high representation than they represented in the overall population. In minority villages, certain villages, there has been internment shares of up to 50 for household heads, many other household head is taken into internment. For some it is 20 . I can some males in uighur culture a more influential. Totaler internment in range between 8. 424 from a wide range of a, message or underlying what we had been surmising and suspecting and thinking and believing. We have here and internment, a Clear Strategy of the longterm change of my nordic societies. Even though parts of the internment is winding down and as china itself says, some persons are being shifted out of internment to the next phase, which they call release, theres a longterm plan the height it. Its important to keep in mind the longterm plan behind internment in who they are counted, who been breaking because reeducation is with a breaking of the people on the inside and try to change them forever, if that should be possible to break the human seoul. The second aspect i had to go very briefly is intergenerational a separation. A massive increase in the governments capacity and ability to shelter children, minority children, fulltime in boarding facilities from young ages. And the third what is labor, this particular spreadsheet entry showing the construction of notice for blocks on the grounds of a vocational over 30,000nt come square, proximally 290,000 square feet. These factors of course, all kinds of shapes and sizes. They might be inside internment camp compound. They might be next to them industrial parks. They might be incredibly different locations but the interesting aspect here again is how involuntary labor is a tool of social reengineering, including through intergenerational separation. One example how did i state propaganda is solid factors of nurseries for even infants. In this particular example, three young children, the youngest only 13 months old was put on labor and her kids are being taken care of in the caretaking system which starts at infancy. Conclusion, the next steps for us and the west i believe is to move into the divestment from chinas business of oppression in xinjiang. I will give one particular example, h m, while the garment maker, looked into their operation and decided to procure a wellknown chinese large textile maker who supplies h m and several other western companies, but then they said okay, we dont want your jan because we know there might be some kind of problem. I would like to just very briefly, this is a very complex topic that would require an indepth presentation on it so but due to shortage of time i did want to highlight to the mutual system, government reports say one county in xinjiang alone sit over 100 minority labors to factories in eastern china. 2017 [inaudible] minority region to receive training in factories. Which is a very complex thing, right . They facilitate increasingly mandatoryas transfers, state pln and schedule transfers of minority labors to the 19 the d cities and provinces. Therefore, Companies Must but also from Chinese Company for significant operations in xinjiang. With that note i conclude. Thank you. [applause] thank you, adrian. Nury. Thank you. I like to begin by thanking the Hudson Institute for organizing this terrific panel. This is the fourth time in that the Hudson Institute organized a public event to shine a light on the ongoing crisis. It is a real honor to be appear with agingng and bethany. They are heroes to me and many others who care about human rights. My remarks will focus on three key issues related to the recent leaks to the new times and i goc. The first, to relearn anything about the nature and scope of the interment camps in the uighur region . Second, what is Party Leadership knowing about its ambition at home and abroad . And finally what has been the International Response been since the leaks . The Chinese Government does not publicly admit this, but its leaders clearly see both uyghur, uyghur identity and religion as inherently disloyal as a threat to the state security and communist party continued rule. So what is the significance of the legal documents. My five take aways. The orders come from the top. Out of three pages in the New York Times leaked, 96 are speeches by xi jinping himself. And there was resistance to the policies of lower ranks. There are pages documenting internal investigation and punishment of local officials who did not carry out the detention with sufficient zeal. It is breathtaking and illuminating to see the level of fear, not just in the uyghur population, but now officials who carry out, who have to carry out the atrocities. The second, a Party Insider took a tremendous risk leaking these documents and the whistleblower said hoped that xi jinping would not escape responsibility. And tightening up of information since the leak. A linguist is in exile and his family was taken away days off the New York Times piece was published. He said his family had no connection to the leaks. Third, the leak is hard evidence of the Chinese Governments intentions. Uighurs have been telling the world about their experiences for more than two years, but their stories were met with skepticism in some cases and now we have proof of chineses systemic punishment and indoctrination. And the papers prove the allout assault on the entire population is an explicit order. Says round up everyone who should be rounded up. This is a plan for wholesale and mass crimes. The papers document a pattern of dehumanization, a wellknown precursor for crimes against humanity and genocide. And xi jinping shows extremism he likens to thought viruses and contagion. Basically what theyre saying is the uyghur population has a disease that require cure through a painful treatment for invention. Four. The Chinese Government tried it hide what they were doing in uyghur region. The government knew they would be horrified and looking for their missing family. And they knew they would face worse torture if they were to complain. The government also tried to hide what it was doing from the world because it knew the world wore horrified to find out what was happening. As early as may, 2014. Xi jinping anticipated International Criticism and told officials to ignore it. He said dont be afraid if Hostile Forces complain or if Hostile Forces malign the image. And the documents use the words meaning concentration. Showing that the communist party intended to detain individuals for the purposes of collective punishment, transformation, because of their race, ethnicity, religious practices and political beliefs. This makes it reasonable and appropriate for us to use the term concentration camps. So what has the International Response has been . Sadly, not much. The main reason is that china has been buying through economic pressure and economic incentives and methods. Governments, businesses and irrational organizations fear the consequences of annoying the communist party. Last week, the Turkish Foreign minister told the parliament, his government wont stay silent on the uyghur usual. The eu, australia, and others have spoken out regarding unfettered access to the camps and thats about it. No country announced sanctions. No country has recalled an ambassador. No country has canceled a trip. What tabled a resolution at the u. N. In this horribly inadequate response, the United States has been, many officials from the vicepresident to the National Director of intelligence to the u. N. Ambassador have expressed concern or condemnation. Secretary pompeo alone has made about 20 public statements, including comments to the press about the uyghur crisis just in the last five months. Just yesterday, secretary pompeo came up in support of a german soccer star and criticism of chinas treatment of uighurs and he said that beijing can see the soccer game, but cannot hide Human Rights Violations. And the house of representatives passed an uyghur rights bill by a vote of 4071. During the following floor debate, members cited prosecution on a scale not seen the holocaust quote congressman smith of the new jersey. It has bipartisan support and strong support in the senate and passed a slightly different bill by unanimous consent in september. In conclusion, it should be on the desks for them. These documents should compel skeptics to get on the right side of history. Its not only about uyghurs, but the nature of the communist party in china, its about who we are in civilization. Maybe can say we did not know. What more will it take for governments and companies to end business as usual with china. Will it take mass killing for the world to take Decisive Action when its too late . The response to respond cannot be wished away or addressed with a few words of concern as in the past. This is a genocidal intent and the black and white on our watch. Thank you. [applaus [applause] adrian. While i try to digest some of these questions, i know youve done recent analysis about the actual structure behind the camp. How many camps are we talking about today . The classified document about the dimension of the camps, the establishment of an administrative infrastructure off Training Management in every county, administrative unit or of xinjiang. And based on other evidence, i have pulled my first estimate from 2018 for which we now have more data points, that on. An at least every township in xinjiang has some extra judicial internment facility. And whether it be a Training Camp or a Training Center and then in some cases townships have both of them and i would add at the regular Detention Centers on top of that as institutions of extrajudicial internment giving us a rough count of 1300 plus. 1300 plus. Yes. And that does not include prisons because those are part of the former form al criminal institution. And these are extrajudicial where theyve put about Additional Court or appeal. Question, i think for bethany. What do you think of the crackdown . Has ccp perfecting their tactics in persecution of minority groups . I think that the u. S. And other government groups have made and not just governments, but analysts and journalists have made a pretty significant mistake in mostly ignoring what happened in the past 20 years to them and tibet, inside of tibet and outside of tibet. What you saw were some early indications and early patterns and practices that the Chinese Communist party used to suppress entire people or religious groups, and by ignoring that, we ignored valuable information about the workings and the thinking of the communist party and we also kind of essentially gave them a green light saying, oh, we dont care that much what happens to small groups or minority groups. There are some similarities to what happened to the them, but what you did not see in china were the Mass Construction of, you know, camps in this way. Its so there are some differences. Thank you. A question for perhaps all of you because i know all of you have experienced this. Any advice for countering chinese pro regime trolls on social media who seek to deny the facts about the enternment camps or at least cloud the issue and muddle it . I was just tweeting about that yesterday, literally. Ive seen a remarkable uptick in the number of accounts, twitter accounts, now, every time i post about xinjiang which is all the time most of the responses are about all of the twitter accounts denying what they exist and what aboutism with the United States and all that. And i dont think that can be on an individual level. What needs to happen, twitter and facebook as well need to continually do what they announce that they did a number of months ago, which is to track and shut down these accounts and to be public about it and to make announcements every time they do that. Thats really the only effective way to counter this kind of obvious disinformation campaign. I think twitter is already having success. I see a notice at least from myself. But maybe its different state, maybe they get on to you late, but they latched on to me starting, interestingly, with the parentchild situation in july. That hit a particular nerve. I think that twitter was been successfully deleting, eliminating. I get every week, no yes, every week i lose about 60 or more followers. Of course, i gain many more and at least twothirds of them are temporarily are closed down by twitter. And i think theyre very easy to discernment they have a limited number of followers, they dont use real i. D. s. They often copy and paste the same thing. If you search for xinjiang in twitter linear in time, you spot them in no time and i think these twitter and others are getting much better in targeting these bots and automated scripts. Can i make a. Two additional thoughts, one is be mindful about a china government effective disinformation campaign. When you go on to facebook or twitter, anytime when somebody publishes what about, and claims, even just last friday when the Soccer Player that i referenced in my speech tweeted out a very powerful message, he had been trashed left and right all over the place. He has 25 million followers on twitter, so thats one thing be mindful and the second, i think that Tech Companies have responsibilities, they should find a way to filter out messages, helping the chinese to disseminate misinformation. For nori, how do you evaluate President Trumps policy towards ccp on human rights issues . And an addon question is, uyghur human rights bill, what are your hopes and concerns about that and its success in the senate . I get this question quite often. Ive learned to Pay Attention to what the Trump Administration does and then what President Trump says in public. The records are very clear as i pointed out, secretary of state mentioned uyghur issue in public, major speeches and media interviews. At least 20 times in the last five months. So everyone from the Senior Leadership level, including Sam Brownback as we saw today and hear powerful messages have been speaking up in unprecedented level. So i dont focus too much about what President Trump says or do on his capacity. Uyghur bill, the United States congress has been extremely supportive in the last two yea years, specifically under the leadership of senator rubio and representative christopher smith. The bill that has been considered currently has had a pretty good chance because, as you look at the director sponsorship and the enthusiasm, the genuine interest to get this bill passed, its just a matter of time. I think the United States congress should have more than one bill and there should be others. If you wanted to help the uyghur bill to pass call the Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell and minority leader Chuck Schumer to put on for voting. I had mentioned what i believed to be the political complacency about chinas war on terrorism after 9 11 at the beginning, but my question, i think, for all of you or this question for all of you is why is the world not recognizing this as a genocide . Also, why is the world ignoring the fact that repression as a result of chinas occupation of east turk stand and its stemmic colonization of that region . Okay, ill get started. The problem is what china is doing in xinjiang is in some ways very sophisticated. Not a lot should i mean, a lot more than should. The world has yet to truly and fully define genocide in the form of the extension, not just of physical life, but as of identities. There are some help terminologies such a cultural genocide, et cetera, some other terms like ethnic cleansing that are difficult to use because they can refer to mass killings, to a whole other range. I think its high time. Its the job of multilateral institutions such as the United Nations and others, to take this seriously and to come up with clear definitions and terms and lists and then to apply them. To match them and then to also follow up. To keep track with whats going on in the world. If theres new forms of atrocities, new mass attacks on identities and humanity, and the multilateral communities and institutions, they have to keep on top of it and not be sort of a democracy that trails behind for 10 to 20 years. I think there has also something to do with people not knowing actually what is happening to the we uyghurs and lack of leadership and capital to take up this cause. At the height of nazi germany, they were holding about 700,000 people. So compared to that number to what is happening to the uyghurs, it is bone chilling. And yet, it has not drawn any necessary attention. Legal scholars should look at the actual definition and the thought, the thinking and the practices of the Chinese Government and drawing the conclusion is not that difficult. So were looking for some leader to take up this cause. As the pointed out, what we have is evidence. The method is clear, the thought process is clear, now, formulation of these policies, implementation is pretty clear. I think this is a serious crime that has been substantiated with the recent leaks that provided hard evidence. Id like to add a couple of points to that that highlight two different, i would say, systemic causes for the lack of government reaction to chinas campaign of genocide. First of all, is that china itself has massive economic might and the Chinese Communist party has spent the last 15 years, perhaps 10 years, waving campaigns to turn that economic power into geopolitical power, the most obvious manifestation of this is xi jinpings Foreign Policy the belgian road as they presented an economic initiative, but is in fact, more importantly, a heavy geopolitical initiative to make many governments around the world economically dependent on china and to turn that leverage into political leverage. That has been china has leveraged that in this specific case. The question has frequently been asked, why are the governments of muslim majority countries not speaking out about this . Its not because they hate their own people, its because those countries, an in particular are particularically dependent upon china for investment, for trade, for loans, et cetera. This was i would say the most important difference between this campaign of cultural genocide and say, myanmars in which they actually did kill, one number ive seen is 24,000 people and hundreds of thousands were forced to leave their homes. It was easy for many governments to condemn that because no one looks to myanmar as a political model and no one is basically known dependent on it. And another thing has not much to do with china itself and much more to do with islamic terrorism. I believe that uyghurs in a way a victim of islamic terrorism because what islamic extremist groups i consider to be extraordinarily selfish in addition to being violent, what neve done in part what they have done is to cast aspersions over the entire islamic religion, which is wrong. Which is entirely wrong. If you look at what xi jinping said, he in his mind at least in his part views this as counterterrorism. That is that is deeply wrong because thats not a problem in uyghur society particularly, thats not what this is. But that is what he has in his private speeches presented it as. So, what im saying is that one reason that many Chinese People hold deeply islamophobic sentiment towards uyghurs, and many countries in the world and generally populations in the world have been less inclined to leap to the defense of muslims is because of the deeply harmful things that islamic extremists in the world have done. This is a good question for you, as a lawyer, from our audience, a certain percentage of people in the camps have already been sentenced with heavy imprisonment, like my nephew and my brotherinlaw. Now my brother is facing a court trial, therefore should the u. S. Government or for that matter, any other legal entities highlight this issue or not. And if so, what are the options . So, id like to note that its an important question. The Chinese Government has been even violating its own counterterrorism law. If their claim holds any water. And, two, the u. N. Should look into this because i get this kind of question quite regularly. Sadly, the union secretarygeneral has not even publicly speaken out and even the u. N. Charter mandates protection of human rights. So i dont believe that the Chinese Government will provide any mechanism or channel for those detained uyghurs to have the legal representation as noted that the u. S. Panel in august of 2018, the chinese have created no rights zone. No right to no access to lawyers, courts, or even Family Members. So, it is something that the policy makers around the world, particularly the u. N. , should look at addressing. I dont think theres anything that can be done in china. Theres no law rises above the power of party. Would any of you like to have some final concluding thoughts . Yes, i think its clearly time to move focus, not the effort, but the focus away from questions about evidence, which we now have abundantly, of what exactly is going on, and to really shine the spotlight on the International Community, on national governments, including this one here. On unions or leagues of nations, be it nato, but especially the United Nations. Be it leaks within the islamic world. And this is not something im an expert on or can advise on, but i think its deeply frustrating to see the extent to which whats going on in xinjiang is testing the true conscious of the world and itth choices that these leaders have been making in oftentimes in not making certain choices and i think that this is something that should trouble us deeply. And neighbor who speaks or climbs to care about human rights should halt and think about whats going on in the global community. Anybody asking for more evidence has no further excuse at this point in time and i think that should be squarely pointed out. It is not only disappointing, but disheartening that some muslim countries have been on the side of the Chinese Government, where their religion has been likened to Mental Illness and theres evidence now that they have been wholesale attack on uyghur islam. And, two, this needs to be understood that the United States government did not create this problem. The chinese have been very effective creating this false division against camp situation as you have noticed in the joint letters published in july. Those 50some countries need to understand that this is not helping the uyghurs, who are speaking up. Its in the interest of religious belief and its a matter of conscience, so i call on those leaders to get on the right side of history. With that, thank you particularly to our panelists, thank you all for being here. We do more of this and i want to have all of you back and thank you to all of you again, also to cspan for joining us today. We look forward to continuing the conversation. Thank you. [applaus [applause]. [inaudible conversations] the house will be in order. For 40 years cspan has been providing america unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the Supreme Court and Public Policy events from washington d. C. And around the country so you can make up your own mind. Created by cable in 1979, cspan is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. Cspan, your unfiltered view of governme government. Government. Our cspan campaign 2020 bus team is travelling across the country asking voters what issues should president ial candidates address. Id sure like who becomes president to focus on the cabinet as a whole. For example, the secretary of education, i feel whoever will have that position they should make sure they have respect for that position and boy doing this, then you know, they would make more progress as a whole. One of the questions id like to see all the candidates answer this Campaign Season is based on the rates enumerated in the book here, where do the rights come from. One of the issues i want candidates to address primarily is Mental Health. The main time we see Mental Health in the news is after a terrible gun violence situation. And those Mental Health factors dont contribute to that. I suffer with anxiety and depression and im not getting the best carry need and i need candidates to actually do something more to help people like me. An issue i would like the candidates to address is the involvement of pharmaceutical companies in health care. I think that specifically the advertising of pharmaceuticals on Television Led to a lot of the problems were having now with our Health Care Coverage and that entire issue, so, if you could please address that in a specific way, i think it would help probably every american in the United States. Voices from the road on csp cspan. Well, the u. S. Senate is about to gavel in as members try to wrap up legislative work before the winter break. On the agenda today, two 2020 spending bills to fund the government for the rest of the year to avoid a shut down tomorrow at midnight and work on a number of judicial nominees today. Now, live coverage of the u. S. Senate here on cspan2. The presiding officer the senate will come to order. The chaplain dr. Barry black will lead the senate in prayer. The chaplain let us pray. Eternal god, you are our light and salvation and we are not afraid. You protect us from danger so we do not tremble. Mighty