Prizewinning biographer jon meacham look at American History through song. [inaudible conversations] please welcome tim mcgraw and jon meacham. [applause] hey, guys, how are ya . [applause] hi, how are you . Good morning. Im the old guy up here [laughter] so history, as you all know, is about words. Thats why youre here. The stately rhythms of the declaration of independence, the cadences of the constitution, but its also about sounds. Its about the muffled drum at lexington and concord and the sound of the surf at omaha beach, the sound of a minister at the march on washington calling on us to live up to the full mean being of our creed. And its also about music. And music is one of the most universe aral expressions. You can listen to a song with which you might disagree more congenially than you could ever listen to a speech about something with which you disagree. Absolutely. You know, as sure as the patriots were carrying their swords and their guns, they were carrying their pens, and they were carrying their prose and poetry along with them to move this revolution forward and to move our country forward. Henry David Thoreau once wrote when i hear music, i fear no danger, im inabsolutely theyll. Invulnerable. And that pretty much sums up, i think, what we wanted to write about when we sat down to write this book. Yeah. Thoreau. Until about three weeks ago, mcgraw thought thoreau was a running back for lsu. [laughter] so you are here at a Inflection Point in the life hes the reason we won the National Championship i was going to say, well done. [laughter] i rooted for clemson to piss mcgraw off, as it turns out. [laughter] we are an unlikely duo. Im very fit [laughter] very well known for my good looks and singing voice. When we started to do this project, i was down in dallas and george w. Bush asked me, what you working on . I said im doing this project with tim mcgraw, and bush went, mcgraw . I like the wife. [laughter] so i was misinformed. I thought this was a project with faith hill and then his sorry as, shows up. [laughter] so here we are. This gans, were neighbors in nashville. Ful tim is asked me a really important question, and i had never if thought about it. He asked, given the periods of history id written about, had i ever considered the role music played in that history, and i was embarrassed to say i hadnt. And as transcending speech barriers, e. It just has a way of, you know, a way to communicate that you can, that you cant communicate any other way with sometimes. And i think it relates all the way back to the beginning of the spoken word. And stories have been told throughout history through music, originally around fires, i guess, in the beginning. And, you know, for me i want to be able to just move people by the stories that i tell. And thats what i do with music, is tell stories. And part of being involved with you and writing this book was to be able to tell the story of how music helped propel that story forward. So every era in american life, the tensions of that era can be found in his music, its interesting. So 1768 John Dickenson wrote the liberty song which was, what, seven years eight years before the declaration of independence. We all know Yankee Doodle dandy, the starspangled banner which was a broad nationalist hymn. The songs of the enslaved which are fundamentally religious songs about deliverance. And one of the things we had to deal with was how do we deal with the civil war what was called the irrepressible conflict. And tim grew up in louisiana. When he came to tennessee, he was excited because we have electricity [laughter] i know yall this is the way it goes for the whole talk [laughter] it was very exciting. Hardback books, hed never seen that. Laugh big moment for him. Hopefully, theres someone from louisiana here are there any louisianians . Way in the back, close to the bar. [laughter] okay. Well done. No problem there. My roommate in college was jack daniels, so im with ya [laughter] we had to deal with dixie. And the south, and if you think about the civil war, you can understand the tensions with dixie and the battle hymn of the republic, right . Your thoughts on dixie are pretty interesting. Well, you know, like jon said, i grew up in the south, in the deep south in louisiana, and i grew up literally in the middle of cotton fields. My first memory is being in a house that used to be a hay barn that was in the middle of a cotton field. I grew up driving Cotton Pickers and moving Irrigation Systems in cotton fields. And from an early time, dixie was a part of our culture, a part of what i heard growing up. And still to this day when i hear the song dixie, it still stirs something in my soul even though this my head i realize that it was a song that was written for a different purpose than what i believed it to be written for. Written for so, again, as you said last night, you dont have to push very hard to find irony in american life. Dixie was written for minstrel back face performers in new york city saying about how the formerly enslaved wished they could be back in slaveriment thats what the slavery. Thats what the song was written for. So one of the ways we had to find to deal with this was how do you tell the tensions of the story. Absolutely. And when we were doing our book tour, we had a performance people seeing me sing [laughter] we had to go through the process of how do you sing this song or deliver this song in a way that doesnt come across to anyone as offensive. And the way we decided to come up with that is a song called the trilogy that was put together by mickey newberry. And it provides dixie, the battle hymn of the republic, and it combines all my trials. All my trials, which is an old bahamian lullaby. And i think theyre set to the tone of what we were trying to say and shows the arc of those three songs together show the arc of what it really mean ifs. So heres somebody else who came from to tennessee and also found electricity. You may have heard of him. Thats the wrong song. Thats the wrong song. [laughter] thats why meacham shouldnt have control. Ive got the clicker. Very exciting. He may be able to handle a book, but he cant handle anything electronic. Can you find the trilogy for me . Wave at me. Because if i have to sing, jamies going to throw me out. No. No. Theres another story for that song. Yeah, well get there. American trilogy. Well hum until then. [inaudible conversations] grab the guitar and bring it out. [cheers and applause] no. Nope. [laughter] keep going. The first one. Enter no. Thats the last one. [laughter] but i do know that song really well. Thank god. Well get there. Of. Its actually the second song on the list of the tape that you have, i think. Sorry, guys. [laughter] [inaudible] well keep going. Yeah. Of. No, thats not it. . Thats not it. No hope . We live in hope . Okay. So well get to that. So american trilogy was really moving, and you all enjoyed it [laughter] and it was one of the most moving things that we did when we did our it really was. Book tour as well. And so [laughter] up one of the things that you find is when youre on the road with mcgraw is there are certain types of fans. Mine are all slightly, well, old. [laughter] with a lot of gin blossoms and horn rims. He has a lot more diverse fan base than i do. So the, we could push into on the tension front. So dixie, battle hymn of the republic, if you look at the depression, you have brother can you spare a dime, which is a very dark song, versus happy days are here again, which is kind of the fdr optimism. God bless america, Irving Berlin. Woody guthrie explicitly wrote this land is your land as an answer to god bless america. So this idea that we, yall may have noticed were somewhat divided politically in the life of the country, but we always have been. Its a matter of degree more than kind, weve tended to think. And then you crash into the 60s where really theres both the new music exploding and the cultural tensions of the world we live in, red versus blue becomes so real. Absolutely. And we tend to think of the 60s when we talk about protest music or patriotic music in a lot of ways, you tend to automatically go to the 60s, especially when it comes to protest music. Some of the first music that the i remember grow canning up, i was born in 1967, and growing up in the early 70s and listening to your parents music as youre with riding around in the car, the first songs that i remember are songs from that late 60s era that my mom was listening to. And its the first time as an artist that it struck me that music has more meaning than just with something to enjoy, that theres something more to music than that. Its the first time i remember listening and saying these guy really have something to say. Theyre just not playing a cute little song trying to entertain you, theyre trying to say something. And that really connected with me, and i think thats part of the reason e became an artist, hearing those songs from the 60s. But also when we started this project, it made me realize that the song9 fre 5060s, fortunate son and protest songs like that, draw a direct line to me now all the way back to the liberty song which was written by dickenson in 1768 or whenever it was. What he was trying to say. So protest songs have been there all along, we just know more about it because of the 60s. And protests and patriotism, if you think about it, theyre two sides of the coin, pick your metaphor. In 1966 ed sullivan comes on the air, he had imagine, this is a great show. He had dinah shore, the four tops, the frosty the snowman voice, the comedian, and a guy named barry sadler who was a green beret. This song became number one song in america in 1966. No. No. [laughter] but this is the trilogy. The trilogy . I think. All right. Hit rewind. [inaudible] to okay. Okay. Is that green beret . The song before this ones green beret. No. [laughter] all right. Green beret. What was so incredible Sergeant Sadler standing there ramrod straight oh, yeah. Performing this song about green beret and fighting. So patriotic, so moving and everyone sort of gathered around. It was sort of a magnetic post for people of that era. And remember john wayne who made the green berets, right . Remember that was a vietnam movie that was really a world war ii movie. It was an attempt to sort of have that moral if clarity about green berets. So, and the tension with that, of course, is our friend Merle Haggard. Yeah. Okie from muskogee. Again, back to louisiana, my step dad drove an 18wheeler when i was a kid, and i spent a lot of time riding around in the cab of that thing with an eighttrack player listening to eighttracks of Merle Haggard andly pride, all these charlie pride, all these great country singers, george jones. That was my education you come by it honestly. I come by it pretty honestly, yeah. Not only riding and hearing these songs, but at jukeboxes at truck stops at four in the morning and places like that. I grew up with that. Its part of my dna. My first memory well, not my first memory, my mom tells me my first introduction to music, i was in a playpen right by the jukebox in a diner. And i would sit in that place every day all day faith actually wants to keep you in a playpen. [laughter] as that turns out. Some kind of pen, i dont know if a playpen [laughter] lets see if we can do [laughter] give me okie from muskogee, can you do it . Green beret, all right. Thats good, play that. Play that one. This is the barry sadler yeah. Ed sullivan. Fighting soldiers from the sky, fearless men who jump and die. Men who mean just what they say, the great men of the green berets. Silver wings upon their chest, these are men, americas best. 100 men will test today but only 3 win the green beret a number of you were singing along. Fascinating. And that song, 1966, number one song in america. By 1968 you couldnt have released that, right . Thats how quickly the war changed for folks. For sure. Yeah. So Merle Haggard was riding along on a bus one day. Im sure drinking protein shakes [laughter] and healthy vaping [laughter] im sure a lot of hydration, a lot of water. And they pass a sign a, a road sign about muskogee, oklahoma. Lets see if we can now were talking. Now were talking. Yeah. We dont smoke marijuana in miss if coegy muskogee. We dont on lsd. We dont burn no drag cars could down on main street. We like living righting and free. And we dont make no [inaudible] feel like Holding Hands [inaudible] we dont let our hair grow long and shaggy. Like the hippies out in San Francisco do. [laughter] and im proud to be an okie from muskogee. Everybody knows that one. A place where even squares can have a ball. I like it. We still [inaudible] down at the court mouths. And white lightnings still the big thrill of all. Now thats my kind of music. There you go. Thats [applause] if i have to put a list together of what are my favorite artists who would be at the top of that list as a country artist, it would be Merle Haggard because of the story for one thing, but his talent, his writing about and the way he spoke to the common man. He had one of the great voices. I think every country singer, including myself especially the lineage in the style that i sing, i think can directly mark themselves back to Merle Haggard who goes call way back to briggman. Yeah. And merle went back and forth on whether that was a parody or whether it was a red state anthem, and it depended on the protein shakes. [laughter] which one sold tickets at which time. [laughter] but, you know, nixon took advantage of this. In fact, when there are only two places Richard Nixon in march of 1974 could safely go. One was the Economic Club of chicago, and the other was the grand ole opry in nashville. And he shows up, and as you all may know, nixon was terribly clumsy. Acuff used to do a thing with the yoyo, and that was a disaster. Brent scowcroft, used to have to when he was working for nixon when nixon would put a medal on someone, it would often remind him of combat because nixon would slice his hand each and blood [laughter] they finally had to put scotch tape on the metal thing. So he shows up, and hes greeted by a song written just for that occasion to that theme. Because at that point, everythings falling apart for him. And he was going to the base. And that was 40 years ago, 45 years ago. So there was very much a concerted effort on the part at that point of the Republican Party in the same way the Democratic Party was reaching out to the counterculture. When you look at the mar on washington march on washington, bob dylan was there, peter, paul and mary, really remarkable. You had an answer to this. If youre despairing of where things are, this is a perennial story. And then we crash into the 1980s with president reagan and the whole notion of morning in america. And two different songs that are really two sides of that coin. Yeah. I mean, you can listen to Lee Greenwoods god bless the usa, and it can really move you, and you can listen to Bruce Springsteen born in the usa, and you can be a big fan of that. And they both have different meanings and come from different places. In fact, reagan wanted to adopt the springsteen song yeah. Bruce wouldnt have anything to do with it, because i think he they didnt quite understand or get what the song was saying from bruces point of view. Now, you and springsteen i often think of in the same i do too, as a matter of fact. Yeah. Does anyone else . [applause] i put myself in springsteen [laughter] you know, when we were doing, when we were putting this thing together and we were actually playing songs and we did our two hour shows well, they ended up being two and a half hours sometimes with jon talking i was talking. But i was going to do born in the usa, and i told jon he wanted me to do born in the usa, and i told jon this story. I told this story throughout the tour that we did. I promised myself that i would never do a Bruce Springsteen song ever because i tried it once. Theres this thing called grammy cares which is a concert that always honors a big superstar in music, somebody thats been around for a long time and had a big impact on american music. Music in general. And one year they were doing springsteen, and he happens to be a friend of mine and he asked if faith and i would do tougher than the rest. We said, sure, wed be glad to do tougher than the rest. We learned tougher than the rest and we we show up, and there are some of the biggest names in the music business with, sting, neil young, john legend, the list goes on, just the biggest names s and we were proud to be a part of that group. So we sang tougher than the rest, as nervous as we were, and as hard as it is for me to match my wifes vocals, we got through it, it sounded really good, bruce is congratulating me and thanking us for doing it, and he says, you know, by the way, at at the end of this show, im going to get up and sing i forget the name of the song now give me a second. Anyway glory days. Glory days. He said you cant take him anywhere. He needs me, cant you tell . [laughter] and he asked faith and i, all the artists are going to get behind me, were all going to sing the chorus, and im like, surings that would be fantastic to be on stage with sting and bruce, neil young and all those guys . Wow, cant wait. So at the end of the night he starts playing and starts doing glory days, and he calls all the artists up. Were all standing behind bruce, i have my cowboy hat on, is right there singing, and hes starting to get to the second verse and he looks back at one of the artists, im not going to name and he says, hey, to second verse. And hes like, nah, i dont think i want to do that. Looks at a second artist, and at this time im starting to get a little embarrassed for my friend that nobody wants to sing the song, and he says, hey, cowboy hat, come sing this song. Come sing the second verse. I didnt know the second verse. [laughter] and i didnt want to be the third person to say no to Bruce Springsteen, so i thought, how hard can it be . [laughter] i know the song, everybody in the music industrys here, why dont i just step up there and act like i know what im doing. Bad mistake. I step up [laughter] the lynn lyrics are on the teleprompter, but i cant find the melody to save my life. So i get two lines into it, and im all over the place and bruce just pushes me out of the way and starts singing the song. [laughter] i