Postponed new indepth programs. Instead, we will show you highlights from past programs. First, from november 2018 money. The princeton university, doctor perry is the author of several books putting history of the black National Anthem. Brief, written as a letter to her son. As a portion of that program. People here when you say, i wonder if they hear all white people. They hear white people as individuals as opposed to white men, and i dont think they clung to. They took this identity apart, those people would not sort of have a different history or a body but it would be a different relationship to identity i think it would potentially have as a consequence, a more humane relationship to each other. When i went later when a person an individual can be heaven, it could be a heaven, certainly who was raised by a white man or someone who thinks of figures like for example, john brown or howard or bob who i think are some of the most precious people in the world, its important to me to not have a formulation that removes them from my sense of trouble i am engaged in. One more question before we move on to some of your other books. Mothering black boys in america is a special calling. Yes. A sentence my mother said to me and i think about it in a number of different ways. One, of course is also rests. People talk about and secondly. Its difficult and maybe not necessarily helpful about the challenges that black boys face in this world, whether its mass incarceration, inequality and schooling or High School Graduation rates or unemployment, all of those things. Thing about it differently, i think about it all thats true but i think about the simultaneous wanting to raise my children identify as black boys that in a way that doesnt limit their imagination, their sense of possibility, it allows them to understand the facts of racial equality, that keeps them from thinking they are superior to people because they are relatively privileged, easy other black people also and also that keeps them away from seeking patriarchy or dominance in the society that values those things highly. Even though those things are more loose for black men to attain from values that raising them to not value that. But to value their characters and sensitivity and complexity and other people around them and the walk of life they come from. All that is a special calling because the lessons about what it means to be man are across the board, often times things that are not so good and the lessons of what blackness is often times not so good unless you can do both of those things. A story that i think is more accurate but also much more loving and gives a much greater capacity to be fully human. In the last 19 minutes, everything we talked about, these are types of things you teach about or in part. Not really. In some ways, it is the spirit with which i teach. I teach the work if morrison and richard wright, but i tend to teach much more fact driven material driven as opposed to the kind of emotional pieces. I do think of it as kind of like calling. Is it important to bring to that the lessons of values and humanity and justice and love to the students, even the we are supposed to be passionate. How does one get a phd and a jd from harvard at the same time . And then to go to graduate school and law school i took my orals and it was a frenzied pace it was amazing for me and i learned so much to be nurtured by this generation. And that was jesse norman at the Gold Medal Ceremony 1999. That voices lift every song and seeing that was known as the Negro National anthem and then the black National Anthem after the 1970s. And that is a song that ia describe and then jesse norman that has been recently departed. Yes the author and the composer they were brothers who were born in Jacksonville Florida and then back in the day they were called race men who thought every achievement that they had and then to become for secretary general and the naacp in the first black man admitted to the bar in florida but the signature accomplishments not just as the composition of the song. Host they were firstgeneration freemen born in the 18 seventies . Yes. The mothers family were not have been enslaved in bahamian and fathers with virginia but yes they were of that generation that emerged from slavery with all of the hopes and dreams and aspirations that were quickly dashed at the end of reconstruction. Host what was the reception in 1900 when the song was written . What is extraordinary the song caught on like wildfire. It was almost immediately embraced as the anthem of black america and i do try to detail this in the book that the United States did not have a National Anthem at this moment so we refer to that as an anthem. The johnson brothers left florida at the time of the composition to work as songwriters in part because for the city. And it caught on that the schoolchildren they reprinted it it was printed in the back of hymnals. So it was the anthem. They did not describe it that way or intent to on intended to but they had. Host if we continue playing that video we would see then president clinton. Yes. Singing. It is a distinction he may be the only was president who ever knew all three versus. [laughter] host may your one from your book hiphop under the farewell to the black National Anthem. One of the things that i talk about in my first book is that there is something that happens for those with the political life with that Civic Engagement in association. And leftdoublequote the Joseph Lowery who says may he rest in peace but once the moral conscience of the nation and the hiphop is refusal of that. It is bold. It is not formal. It is profane and to perform a reveling just a common place in American Culture but its a different kind of public presence for africanamericans so that departure was significant but i also talk about there were various moments that just seem they will peter out completely but it keeps coming back even though communities and institutions on a weekly or daily basis dont exist the same way in black communities. Host can you draw a direct line from Langston Hughes to Biggie Smalls . Absolutely. But because in so many ways both of them took the beauty of vernacular language and crafted it and made the decision to tell stories that were pointed, had a political content and resonated deeply were pleasurable to listen to and engage with they are different political subjects like one is very much an activist and organizer but the relationship to black language with the diaspora and the desire to understand that as the foundation of the production is directly connected. It is the double entendre because what i talk about the process by which it became the most popular form in the country and had an audience that expanded beyond the initial core audience. And from the very beginning of the postindustrial life with all of its complexity as we said first it is not meconium to the hood. Host you use the term mc what does that mean . It is the word for tea 17 that is more organic to hiphop some spell it teethree there is a relationship between the wrapper and the dj and the producer. Host it is a title . Absolutely it is a title. That is internal to hiphop i was also interested in what made the teethree good. So what does that consist of because i was doing that literary analysis. Host from your book profits of the heard the historic construction of opposition to whiteness in which blackness is demonized is part of the art form conscious. Yes and i should say before i go into this hiphop has changed a great deal since 2004 although there are some aspects at present are in meaningful ways but there is a very overt play with the imagery of black people as thugs like tupac embrace the idea of thug life of the criminalization of black people the long history of black people the criminality and access and gangsters and violence and then to engage that satirically and critically and played into it. And with that social reality. Host lets hear from our viewers as we talk about your books truly one charlie from new york. Caller hello. I have been fighting races of my whole life. I am proud of that but i have seen that the world is very complex and politics is complex. I support black nationalism that is just as bad as White Nationalism and with that fascism in the country to see trumps face it is good and bad in all groups but black people are just people there are not inferior or superior in black nationalism is nationalism i can understand why she supports black nationalism. I am not a black nationalist. Im far left. It takes on many different phases there are some brands but politically actually we are aligned in many ways to political conservativism like the nation of islam and then to advocates black nationalism in the organization like the black Panther Party or the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee with third World Politics that thought of themselves identified with colonize people around the world. So the single term without the larger context. But i will say i disagree with the caller because people trying to find a way to have that economy over community that they live in with colonialism and enslavement which is not the same as celebrating history of colonialism. But that is not a designation. I believe in someone the blaze and democracy as a socialist because i am against economic exploitation everybody should have access to a safe environment, clean water, schools, healthcare with this extraordinary country and that we shouldnt have children who are poor and we should have People Living on the street i dont think that narrative of consequences of economic vulnerability and that i dont think thats a decent way to organize society. Because with a lack of opportunity so the question is much as i write and think about race is never separate from the larger question of the distribution of suffering in society. As an example how it has been organized for opportunity unjustly but i dont want my objective for black people to dominate and then to become free to have a robust democracy which is only possible if you have a decent quality of life for all people in society. Host jody you suggest that joes on dash Justice Kavanaugh should read your newest book spark of light why is that . Its probably one of the most balanced look add abortion rates of womens reproductive rights that i found. I worked really hard to make it balanced and would allow him to see other peoples points of view. When you say all points of view are represented . Have so . The book is about a shooting add a reproductive rights clinic theres only one left in america because of over 200 laws at the state level chipped away at productive rights want us reproductive rights is 2012 so a good man comes in and start shooting and one of the people he takes hostage in a ghost negotiator and a wide range of people for this one moment and to see those individuals of prolife and all of those are accurately represented. How do you storyboard that . The connections of things going on . There is a twist to this challenge is told in reverse of the very first thing you see is a standoff between the gunman and the Hostage Negotiator every chapter goes back one hour in time and then what brought all of these Diverse People to the clinic at this moment. That is much harder than i anticipated with a 48 page outline because i had to write it chronologically in reverse and then those ten very diverse characters i have never written a narrow one not one like that i my characters and the plot and the twist want to make sure i leave a paper trail but in this case there was so much going on and it was so complex i needed to map it out in the real magic is not the outline but in the editing when i edited the book i took some postit flags ive marked up the book by character. And in reverse ten different times to follow each thread to make sure each was coherent and then i edited it entirely going forward. Host how much time did you spend in jackson mississippi . And an africanamerican Abortion Provider who also identifies as a devout christian but he performs abortion on abortions not in spite of his religion but because of it and thought who would provide those for the women if not for me. And then to determine what the title of your book is and when usually the cover and what they think of it that was not the original cover for spark of light. I do love the cover of small great things that i didnt want them to confuse the two. So the art director came back with that and i said that really caught my eye and i loved it. Host thats an expert we will talk about. So i look at those pantone squares the color chips and if you look at the colors there are spots where it is missing when there is something that is not quite right there something about racism in america that is such a beautiful illustration of what i was trying to talk about. Host are you kennedy . Any white person. Actually is based off a reallife incident in flint michigan the africanamerican nurse in the delivery war delivered the baby but afterwards a father said he didnt want her anyone that look like her to touch his kid and then pushed up the sleeve with a swastika tattoo. And say no africanamericans are allowed to touch the baby a bunch of personnel banded together i hope she got a great payout but it makes me wonder what if she was the only one alone with the baby and something went wrong and as a result was brought up on charges of murder and what if she was defended by a white public defender would never consider herself to be a racist and what if i told the story in her voice of the white supremacist dad and the public defender to unpack their own feelings about race so small great things is for white people and is meant to say open your eyes a little wider its easy to point to the white supremacist to say thats a racist is lot harder to point to themselves and say the same thing but race is about prejudice and power if youre white you hold all the power. Its easier to know if you are a person of color and that there are others that come to us just because we are born like this. That is something for white people to learn and to fix. Ultimately thats why i wrote the book. Host you have written 26 books have they all the best sellers . Not at all. I did have that overnight oprah moment i started off very humbly with 3500 copies printed. What happened is people told their friends and it grew very organically and after my sisters keeper to be on the bestseller list by itself. Host how quickly was my sisters keeper optioned . So you didnt see the movie . [laughter] know it does not follow it. It was optioned and i said the only thing that is important to me as they keep the ending. Does have a monstrous twist at the end i that sold the book they said just read the book so we can talk about it in fact that is how the producer who optioned the book gotten it. So they asked me if i would talk to him and i said yes and i told him the ending is really important to me he says i will not change the ending if anyone does i will tell you why and i will take myself. So that i worked with him for a year and a half and then i saw a script that worked look like the book and then i got a call from a girl the casting agency and said they change the ending i called them at home he would not return my call and went to the movie said he threw me off i went to New Line Cinema you will lose money because i have pretty ardent fans that are rock stars will not want to see this movie. So sure enough they lost money in my fans were very upset and ultimately the great irony i could say you will lose money and they did and to have more Creative Control. You have Creative Control once you option it . If you do have Creative Control thats the anomaly if you want Creative Control we dont need that and another that is just willing to take money and run but you try to make that educated choice and you are doing the best you can but youre not allowed to call every day is a did you feed them. It is early days yet but am plan entertainments to bill bergs company optioned it and we cant think of better castin casting. When i read that. It will be great she is incredibly talented actress. Before we get into some of the other books that you have written before we get to that first call have your books gotten more topical over the years . Looking at the trajectory of my career i actually think it is where my brain is at any given time my first book was about mothers and daughters i was closer to the daughter than the mother then i had a baby right before i had my first child and then my second was about motherhood and how incredibly difficult it is and then getting into marriage and relationships and then i had all my kids were all my books are about. With all the terrifying things that could happen to your kids from sexual abuse to kidnapping to suicide and then my kids grew up and got to a point where they were selfsufficient so i began to take a step back that make me set up at night like the nature of good and evil. And what it means to grieve and lose someone. In my sisters keeper you preface it with the mother of a child who has had over ten surgeries. My sisters keeper grew out of two different places. I had written second class which was about the eugenicists project in america which very few people know about. We actually modeled the program hitler used for his final solution. So one of the things that i learned is the original American Eugenics Society with a folded the group that took over the genome project is too close for comfort and i happen to read when i was researching eugenics which was the story of the nash family in colorado the first family to create a donor sibling to help their daughter molly who was supposed to die by age two hanging by a thread age three and they designed a sibling for her to take down the transplant through umbilical cord blood. And that was a whole different topic and i started to think about that. So molly and her brother they were little kids and that donor sibling in the teenage years. In my just here because of my sister . I really want to expl