We can see them as inflection points. Largely inflammation. The best example is in 2016 and the republicans primaries, theres a real civil war in the Republican Party the establishment represented by bush and others, do not denomination, do not get the support of the market people. The god of the revolutionary donald trump. The democrats are going to that right now. Going to have a civil war in their party right now pretty is going to be the traditional, or an outsider or socialist. But that is indicative of the fact, the stuff that is more for the last 40 years in the United States to govern the people, barely has not kept up with the country. I guess at the end of this book, that i realized after a long period of sort of thoughtfulness know until the wilderness died figured out. It is an american ghost of these divisive periods. Danielle we are very dynamic. Demographically, geographically, economically and we are constantly reinventing ourselves not just those individuals but as a nation and governments by its very nature is status quo this is how we have always done things were always going to do this. And its who then get stuck. Its a status quo so america is set up to have these revolutions political revolutions. K. T. Mcfarland we had one in the american revolution. But we mostly have them come the revolutions that played out on the battlefield. Thats where now. I think. Danielle you talk about definitions. Theyre more likely just screaming it cheat each other. Before he spoke to each other today that we would have it constructive dialogue across the aisle. No screaming at each other pretty limbo actually make good tv but certainly more productive conversations that we can have. There based on Common Ground and understanding each others differences. Explain to me what you mean by nationalism and populism and how it might be different. K. T. Mcfarland nationalism and i was always for decades and republican Foreign Policy. I had jobs in this Administration Spent over the last i think ten or so years, came to really reject a lot of the thinking that i had before about globalism. No globalism in my mind, is the idea that because its a sophisticated economy and in a Nash International economy the world is flat, that the boundaries of the National Boundaries are not as important. National boundaries are not as important thing of the internet and think of finance going and people going, so the memories less important because it is the free flow of information, the ideas, individuals. And finance and business and so that is an internationalist the globalist thing, well that is the new world. And so we really dont need to think so much about the national regulations, we really need global institutions. Global regulations. The second part of it is though the elitism. And i think that stems from again, a complicated world and the society. Slowly the experts, only the people of had graduate degrees and Nuclear Weapons, knowhow or should have any kind of an opinion on National Security. So those two together. Water so Matter Experts do. And a lot of the leaders, other people who think well if we only have this International Group of enlightened people, they could better govern the world and we would be safer. Thats where i was 15 20 years ago. Im not there anymore. One, the elitist, theyre not taking care of all of the people. And the American People, especially i is a patriotic red blood the american, i really believe that the market people not some selfselected group of experts, lets say bureaucratic aristocrats with you will commence American People who have the right to choose their leaders and they dont like their leaders, throw them out. They also make mistakes and then they change their mind but the other part of it is which is globalism versus nationalism i think we have spent far too long dealing with the world in which we wish it would be that the United States at the end of world war ii, with word the dominant country in the world. Militarily, economically and what we did was we were very generous to our former allies even to our former adversaries who have this devastating part. So we entered into security agreements as well as trade agreements to our disadvantage. And we put up 75 percent of the resources for nato for example. The trade agreements we had were very lopsided. A lot of them were the the expense of the industry and order to encourage going for them. Thats how it was for 50 to 70 years but i didnt think it made sense anymore because the world of change. A lot of those countries a lot of them not only recover economically but in fact, surpassing us in many ways. We did the same thing with china. Around 2000 where we said, well, were going to give china a helping hand over to help them economically develop is the end it will be like, japan or korea or europe, they will be our trading partners, we will all play by the same rules they will be our friends. It did not work out the same way with china. And so that is why i broke with nationalism, and globalism and both of the leaders and will be for donald trump came along. I was already there. That was by 2014 or 2015 reason i was because i went around the country. I did a lot of speaking around the country. I live in a bubble in new york but is that window up bullet went around the country, knew something was happening. I cannot figure out what was that i did my own informal bullying i would get up to the podium and i would say, how many of you think that the economy is not where it was pretty that you want to have the opportunities for you children that you have had. A lot of his with up. An icicle honey, or you think that american is getting kicked around by pipsqueak countries that we shouldnt get kicked around by. Maybe have the hands rub then i about the values of american that we think of as American Values like selfreliance, ingenuity, how many of you think that those are kind of furthering the way. 75 percent went up. Now many people think that is washingtons fault. Everybody stand up. Including the sound equipment guy. Womens group, college students, security groups, Foreign Policy experts, business groups, they were all doing very well for the most part. They were not suffering. Yet they knew something was very wrong in the country. So that is when i really had an awakening. I decided the ways of this country, and governed itself for decades just start working anymore so i became a committed nationalist and my version of it in a committed populist, my version of it before donald trump even came on scene but it would say really want to point out, to me nationalism is not xenophobic kind of hate the other guy thing. And populism is not well, we dont have to do anything. Lets give everybody everything for it is not that either. So as a target of that but for me it is getting back to the markets roots. Danielle eighteen appreciate is that you are selfaware and talk about your own education and experience for example when you talk about your time in the white house, National Security advisor, some of the people that you called on including people like fiona help. And we need a china person, that was the marines, in his early 30s. Is there a need for the expertise and the white house complex problems is there attention in meeting these people who are educated and had some experience should been on the ground in afghanistan event written about issues, any change ideals in the peoples government. K. T. Mcfarland i was responsible for hiring. And they were ahead of russia and europe and i know her red rocks better for years and i thought she would be a really important addition. I knew she would not agree with me but i thought before Trump Took Office that what is said in the campaign trail was that he wanted to petition with russia. Hes not that least naive about them. They been doing that so for a long time with United States. Mucking around in our processes for decades. But i thought doctor fiona hill would be very good because i had hoped that he could get into negotiations with project and i want her to be able to cite him, lets have the back story here. Lets try the harder deal. Sadly this not how it worked out. But i thought she would be a very good advisor to troutman i felt he would respect her views. That is just not the way it worked out. With those combating in realworld experience in the Business World as well as a journalist world as well is the marines. He wanted to take a much tougher stand on china which i knew trump wanted to do. Speech of lets talk about china. And not recognize that that was the challenge. They know i am interested in your thoughts on the economy and interested in the thoughts of the present had it been tough with china and other presence may be or not to toughen up. K. T. Mcfarland would you like to start. Danielle asymmetric between capitalist country like america in a state run economy what we are trying to trade with other countries. K. T. Mcfarland lets start at where is china who are they. So the present but i should point out, he has essentially, has said to them give us all of the power you do not have any individual rights. Xi said that. We promise you will have prosperity and peace and that would be the globe they held the country together especially in the last days. The communism is sort of faded away. So theres no religion that holds them together, no ideology. Its authoritarianism. And maybe then ethnic and historical pride of the chinese. In chinese history. I think that is where we start out with. That is the deal the chinese leadership timing is. Prosperity has increased. But the other thing is to look at the generation pretty china, advanced, its not like in america are in the west we might have one person and a young person and the senate together. You have an old candidate and a young candidate an immediate one. In china, youd mess with generations we start out with, and probably identified as maybe in ten years old is a really smart, someone we want to nurture so the chinese, advancing their age group. By the time i get to be the president of china, hissing all the leaders are not dealing with the government bureaucracy and their military community, they have been working together for communities. You move with your cohorts coming out move with your age group you move with your age cohort. So whether people are in the 60s, where were they in the formative years of their lives when they were their teens. They were in the middle of the cultural revolution pretty and that, was in the 60s, during the 1972 in 1973. These guys were in their late teens. A lot of the leadership of china now, had been penciling some of the with the sons of the leaders of china. When the culture revolution happened which was chaotic and disruptive and was students who work storming that universities, they were tearing down leaders. It was the wrong kind of revolution but they went wild and it took a lot of that senior in china and the put them in jail printed when they sent them out into the country basically in slave labor. And xi was one of those people. Some of his childhood experience as all of his colleagues, a lot of them had been in the top positions when they were young and they lived a good life in beijing and then all of a sudden they were sent to the countryside along with their families to be punished. And to be beaten. So i think that when xi and his crew, that is a disruptive society. And people going crazy order breaking down. A revolution of the rawhide. So with what to do at all costs, that china does not go there again. Think that drive in their whole authoritarian system. And that drive their position in the world, they want order at all costs. They dont believe that sometimes revolutions a good thing. You will not have individual freedoms. You will be as the government tells you. They dont want disorder that you want prosperity. The thing was going along quite nicely in the United States as i said, really try to help china. To modernize and we thought well, though modernize and open their economy. It will be just like all the other countries and it will be a great happy world. The maya did not happen because the chinese needed to, they were coming from so far behind. They tried to do and 20 and 30 years with the west took hundreds of years to do pretty and very conscious of that. And people in starvation situations and 20 years ago another betting building modern city so those of anything to keep that up. And that manufacturing jobs that we have, we can safely say that they were in america they went to china. In america never really retrained a lot of the people. We have an appointment or underemployment of our population while the chinese were booming. So we enabled their success. We dont resent it right early so i dont. We enabled it but of change. And at this time, to recalibrate that relationship, we dont need to treat china like a third world country and give them the advantages of trade. The domains in the market economy that they wouldve enjoyed and have enjoyed and the third world developing company. Not saying that we should have an adversary relationship and noticing we should try to get them down. Lets just fight fair. But the time is come to rejigger that relationship. Danielle do you have concerns about what way for example in the buying up of throughout africa, give a concern about the colonialism and chinas rise concerning the predominant power and. K. T. Mcfarland the chinese have said to the americans, we want to be peaceful and youre the big brother. But the rhetoric and ambitions have changed in the last decade or so. The things that i would point to the refusal for example to renegotiate a lot of these deals. The bank borrows still however you can access to american technology, western technology but theyve also done probably three things geographically and militarily that of gotten meet that one is the South China Sea and the east china sea. Now that is a waterway through which the majority of the world trade goes from europe and africa to the middle east, although through the South China Sea on a swing through china, philippines and japan korea and the chinese have very aggressively moved. This is how it all started. We will build them up and it will really be for the fishing fleet and know they have militarized them and they are claiming that is the world greatest ceiling of commerce that should be an internal right to decide what to do and so thats a big problem. The silk road which is the chinese attempt to take the country where trade went from china to europe to the middle east. The chinese have attempted to recreate that with china and charge. Willows called one road when bells produce attorneys build are built to this physical highway will also build the virtual highway by going through all of these countries and building things to chinese standards. But unlike the romans did and then the final thing is that their maritime ambitions. So they have looked at pakistan, africa and they have said well we are going to build forts and just like the South China Sea, which is really all about fishing, we want to sell and trade chinese goods. As for the sports but in fact, a lot of the scores are now being militarism chinese are building maritime routes, the building a land route and trying to control the worlds Global Commerce route. In addition to that, something made in china, with the chinese leaders, have said they want to dominate the ten technologies of the future. The bible making low value to like tennis shoes, all of the way up to computers and hightechnology but theyve identified with ten technologies of the usually robotics, artificial intelligence, bioengineering and they said we want to be the leaders in those. We are going to do it however we have to we will buy american companies, we will steal intellectual intelligence as we captain will demand that companies have to turn over their intellectual property. So thats another way that all these things together plus a much more progressive attitude and talking about it. Think that the chinese no longer want to be americans little brother that they look at the world and they say, we are going to dominate the world and were going to dominate the commerce of the world with our Huawei International five g global network. The communications of the world and then we will rewrite the world rules. According to our specifications. Danielle do you think would be the rest of the world versus china not to say that this would be inadvertently aggressive stunts but hardship print where america and doesnt states, they decided to make trade agreements so that they can constrain chinas ability to trade with us companies. Frankly, the deal with all of the nations. But certainly the United States. K. T. Mcfarland i think it would be a great thing to revisit in the second term. But i dont think its good to do in the first place. Because trump understood that if your real building there american economy, as you get off of the middle east oil and make American Energy independent, then we have a lot of power in the energy world that we are the recipients of the purchasers of most other countries. We make stuff, we dont have to sell it to them. Trump understood those things. And if you could get us off of the middle east energy use trade wars to renegotiate new agreements with china and with japan, south korea and there will be one with britain soon. Texaco and canada. Some of the United States in far better position, have much more leverage and then start negotiating and so my advice to him, is now that you have china, so the they have the trade agreement, and mexico and canada and one with japan and south korea. You probably get with one with the brits by the end of the year. We now have charting and a lot of us at the same place with chinese. We can go block led by the United States and say, we demand a new deal now. We dont want to kick it down but we want you to stop exploiting the generosity that we have given you over these decades. Danielle patty is interesting. What about the aftermath when we speak about china. It has given us what we have seen