Lonely voice you know how it is in the house if you believe in balance budget or you believe we should spend less or have a limited Constitutional Government really you know, controversial thing unfortunately we never get any of the other side but then we lose a lot on our side that could be better at it and i guess thats one of my frustrations but i try very hard to have the same opinion whether it is republican president or democrat president that, you know, constitution was specific. Spending power was ours things like that that we should keep our plans on and i think we too easily give that up and i think one of the interesting things that i found coming up here is that democrats are better on these issues when it is republican president they want to oppose republicans are better on this when it is democratic. But when the partieses are the same they tend to sort of ac acquiesce a little bit on separation of powers and many this book you write the case against socialism it operates to me very much as a debate guide against those who would try to grow left Political Movement by advancing socialist ideas, embracing socialist dictators maybe talk a little bit about the need for the book if through the lens of which Political Movement is expanding or contracting. You know, most people sort of hear the title you know case against socialism they say thats a great idea but we wish it wasnt necessary. You wouldnt think it would be necessary and it is true. You know, i was born in the 1960s, and we still were sort of experienced and a, in fact, in early 1960s cruise job was just admitting to stallens the terror of the pilgrims killing and famines about that time you know the great famine in china had just happened in the 50s. And so many of these thing were just becoming known but throughout most of my lifetime, people were who horrified with t they did with socialism now we turn the page and now we have poll showing young people over half of them are enthusiastic half of them hate capitalism and some think socialist is something were trying perplexing to some of us who have read the history of socialism but i think it is necessary. We have couple of socialists over on your side weve got a social ition on the senate side. And when i was a kid, i think there were socialist but they were embarrassed of the label they didnt want to be called social so they were liberal and didnt want to be called liberals but they knew that it wouldnt be popular now theyre really in your face saying im a socialist and we want to bring socialism and they have a party the democrat socialist of america and theyre proud of it. And it alarms me that young people arent going oh, my goodness what would socialism really mean for our country . It has been in a short period of time that weve seen democrats socialist really embrace socialist brand as a growth agenda. Now you said something earlier in your political career something about our prospect for growth and leveraging liberty for growth and specifically once that our party needs more people who have tattoos and more people who dont have tattoos so the question is is, do we need to go find people with tattoos to join party or need to tattoo more people in the party . Thats a good question i say with tattoos without tattoos with ponytail or without pony or with or without ear rings and young people want to join so i think thats sort of of the problem and somehow socialism has pack hip or cool and dont know what it is so same studies say theyre for it not you know like 10 of the people who are for socialism can actually design it as government owning means of production they just they think it has about fairness and part of this i blame on government schools frankly the government schools teach, you know, everybody can have selfesteem and son cant spell were going to give a prize because he needs to feel good about about himself and pass out selfesteem and fairness web and they get this idea that somehow the government is going to make things fair. One of the thing we point out here in is theres still a top one percent in social i. Different is under our system its at least mostly or to the large extent based on merit who becomes wealthy. If im sam walton i sell something you want im good at selling and districting i can become a billionaire but nobody forced you to buy myself and sam became a billionaire because people voluntarily bought his stuff and same l way with really most billionaires in our society. But when you look at socialism theres a top one percent you think maduro doesnt have a top 1 theres generals theyre all a well fed. One of the thing we point out about leader in venezuela is average person lost 20 pounds down there but he makes ted kennedy look slim hes wearing this size 68 jacket or 74, you know, chest jacket, and because he keeps getting fatter and fatter. Ive never read a book that better fat shames socialist than your book. [laughter] you went down this project sort of as an interesting endeavor in marriage as well you wrote the book with your wife im not married but ive heard that wallpapering can be difficult talk to e me about process of writing this book with your wife and you write a beautiful poem at the a beginning of the book to your quite a few that i think speaks to a lot of people who have endured a sacrifice and notion that that sacrifice is linked to another human being that you love. Kelly and i work pretty well together its sort of like they give you advice in marriage is that, when your wife says something you sort of divide up you have things you have things and then ultimately let her make final decision thats not entirely true but it kind of is that im laid back in the book i wrote a lot of stuff she came through and read it and said it would be interesting to add this in. So give us like a kelly paul unique sweetener edition the discussion of the can you having ton catholic boy was largely hers and really got her going got her upset all of us upset who watched this and what a media did to this and sort of the link into socialism is that weve got on to a point where we have sort of propaganda filling our airways and under socialism directly from the government. This is coming from private entity, but that boy was an innocent 15yearold boy our kids went to Catholic School hes standing there waiting for bus he never says a word and adults are say hes got a punchable face i met with these people week later when all of the truth come out were saying look youve got to punch him and really do you not understand what youre saying . And just everything about that story was wrong pep and i really hope that in the end courts will say you cant lie about somebody because there really is a court case here there have been kids not getting into harvard because they do inappropriate things on their social media whatever. He didnt do that. But hes being lumped in with people who are racist or say bad things. He might be excluded from schools and ultimately from careers because people think well he was some terrible person. And in reality never said a word and never did anything and the other side where all of these terrible adult its that were getting his face, yelling horrible at both him and others there. And a the media got everything completely wrong because they have an agenda anyway but kelly was key in getting that in there and describing that and drawing it into this whole idea of what happens under propaganda and socialism. The democrats and socialist we serve with in congress they tell us that socialism is really the path to fairness. So who are the Fairness Police and how do you write about them . And thats a good point is that, see in the abstract they say were going to have fairness but thing is you have a conception of fairness i have a conception of fairness, representative omar might have a conception of fairness but for her to invoke on us if we disagree with her shes not going to sell us ideas of fairness she has to send police basically and this is where breaks down because in this is ting why maybe its become popular in the idea of fairness. Is they can fairness with charity and being your brothers keeper. I believe we should be our brothers keeper and i believe in christianity and christian idea that we have community that we should take care of our people. But that is nothing to do request government, you know, and they believe it and flat it and say if i take charity and give to someone else and not charity when government comes but isnt charitable in way government does it because ultimately the more you want socialism this is one of the points we headache. If you want a little bit of socialism, the balance from government may be tolerable we want a little bit more you have at more state violence. But if you really want to take the property and when came to take farm and stalin collected farms, truly theres a point at which people rebel and only way you can get it is really through violence you have to kill the people, and thats what happened under stalin not just a few but l many manies and from that we try to develop a question is and this i taught a course at George Washington on the novel and kids kept asking, about is violence an accident of socialism or is violence inherit is it inevitable you have violence . I think more socialism yes it is inherit the more the close or you get to actually taking peoples property, people will resist and then you cant just fine them l you ultimately have to put them in jail or shoot them. I interact with a lot of folks who come up to me as a young conservative and say now how can i motivate my child my grand child to embrace the principles that have made our country great and i would say the book really does detail out all of the arguments the socialist make and then it goes into i think a good Historical Context good global context the question is when do we move past that Tipping Point you have half of people under age of 29 have now a favorable view of socialism so have we crossed the rubicon or do we have to go and win back this argument with people who have embraced that incremental socialism . Were in danger of this jefferson said every generation you know has to renew the water of the tree of liberty. And i think thats true with socialism and bad ideas every generation has to realize you know the the problems with social sm what comes from it. The big lie, though, thats out there right now and the big sort of superficial sort of platitude they throw at you is they say well, you know, intellectuals liked stalin no we used to like castro you know bern nefs a big fan of castro but you know then we learn it wasnt so great so we arent supported castro and used to like chavez but we like sweeledden we love socialism its the kinder gentler socialism so disproving that one that sweden and skanked knave ya is socialist because theyre not they ranked pretty high on freedom indexes for trade and for a lot of other things. And we lowered them from 35 highest in world to 21 interestingly skanked scandinavia has had low business taxes so we want to beat them but he doesnt want low corporate taxes but he wants to raise them also interesting doesnt have a minimum wage other interesting thing and this is realing big one that is biggest lie of the left biggest lie of all of the socialist is that you can have all of this free stuff you can have something for nothing you have free college, pay leave, everything you want well give you free money and only tax rich people and big lie is thats not what they do in scandinavia theres a lot of free stuff they have free stuff they give you but they tax the heck out of everybody. And see, bernie and his clan and merry troop of socialist stick to rich and not middle class but in scandinavia everybody pays 25 sales tax from poorest to richest 25 sales tax, everybody also pay a very significant income tax. So the income tax of their 60 starting at the 60,000 well 60,000 is middle class this isnt the richst thats how they get so much money is they tax the heck you have the middle class and wont see bernie or aoc says yes were going to do trillion nor Climate Change and 60 trillion for medicare for all and middle class has 60 income tax theyre saying middle class wont have tax increase just rich people sticking to rich people. Its a lie. So is capitalism zero sum then thats the argument as rich get richer that comes at someone elses expense and i think you use a variety of the examples to go through circumstances where its actually capitalism that is the rising tide that lifts all boats. We look at that because income equality by the left and just terrible thing. And we actually look at it and the interesting thing is that you know they say you know one of them points out that pakistan and ethiopia have is less income equality and move there then you think it is going to be great and really isnt about how close you are to each other. Its about what your level is. Income inequality one of the authors we quote say sort of like a yell jealousy about how much you make in reality thats just sort of a really a bad almost a vice thats coveting someone prosecute and how rich i am if im getting richer but another one of the big lies that comes from socialist. They say that the economic fie is fixed. And that if i get some, youre getting less. The truth of the matter is in the statistics are overwhelm on this that economic pie is bigger and bigger and less poverty theres a group that we quote from called human progress. Org associated with katoa just the statistics are just amazing. Poverty and about 180, 0 lived on two dollars a day thats how they do constant dollars when i was born it went from 90 and 1820 to a third of the world living in poverty and early 1960s. Today it is less than 10 . And so thats incontroversiable people escape extreme poverty every day for the last 25 years. And so their facts are just wrong theyre just completely wrong the world is so much better than it used to be. I mean, better water, antibiotics, excuse me you talk that global lens i expected book to focus on domestic policy reforms that youve championed to enhance liberty reduce size of scope is and government in our lives but i think readers can expect a very global view of how quality of life has been impacted as a folks have moved towards Big Government or towards liberty. Right i think the thing is that facts are there. That the World Economy is growing, i think like u. S. Economy may have doubled eight times in the last 200 years its just happening poverty is less. Everybody is richer were all doing so much better. In fact i start out speeches now by say theres never ever, ever been a better time to be alive i really want to sink in. And this is not high perp lee. you take on venezuela early in the beck and you make people eat their words and take joy in pointing out that not only bernie but folks on cnn oliver stone champion venezuela as great utopia you have a different take. People literally eating their pets and we have a story of a young lady teenage girl and she has a gang but her gang is to defend the turf of trash so certain garbage and she keeps them out of them because their hers to look for food how sad. People killing rats in a street to try to eat them pigeons, and its just really is a sad thing. But kind of going back to World Economy thing we have to understand why the World Economy got better and we have to understand why venezuela deteriorating into, you know, chaos and thats i think part of what the book is doing. Part of the debate we should being having up here and we dont seem to have it in congress is that we dont, arent talk about when Economic System is better and nobody in the media seems to care that what aoc is supporting and what bernie is supporting is stalin and mall and all of the terrible ideas, and they get away it because they arent challenged. You also a trace the roots of socialism back even to arab world which i think would be enlightening to many who would cast these gulf monarchies other arab endeavor its as right wing government not left wing government but you say that the outdoor nasser socialism is a brand of socialism thats been particularly violent and harmful. I think thats part of the problem weve had really since the 1930s. Others said when you have hitler come onis board by late 1930s theyre calling him a right wing dictator i think this was accidental. I think these were political scientists to decide decided to develop a spectrum of right and left so they put naziism over here and socialism and communism over here and in reality theyre just different variance of socialism, in fact, hitler was proud of his socialism but he said like most inventor of something he wanted to make sure it was distinct and hiss was racist and, obviously, genocide yall but proud of those things but he said this is unique he would come up with a unique form of social when you look at original theyre from communist manifesto and a collection of Everything Else but they did it because after the war and people became so horrified with what he did, you know, with the holocaust, the socialist say we cant sell socialism if they think hitler is a call him a right wing authoritarian same true in arab about world but i think commonality and i think this gets back to top 1 , is nasser all of these people and dictators in africa many of them had a socialist bend but socialism with enriching their family it happens under socialism too. Socialism may help everybody out and quality and everybody is going to to get, you know, chicken and every pot, and yet it always seems like you know like castros daughters really rich, maduro daughter is very rich. The families enrich themselves. In that sense you would attack the notion that socialism is attainable by saying in the book that every economy in the world will district resources unequally theres no opportunity for full equal resources and in a world you prefer merit over do we fall at a risk of United States congress leaning into elements of crony capitalism and does that take us on the slow march to these bad places . I think so. And i think the whole idea of, you know, how things are districted in the equality of it is being a goal that if thing were equally districted the problem would be is that you would lack incentive because you work hard or because you want more of the pie to increase your share of the pie, and so getting over incentive was always a problem. Do we fall into the tap here sometimes . Yeah because sometimes in order to get the things we wanted like reducing taxes on economy, weve taken people off at the lower whoapgd pay no tax and so now we have a tax system really that is a lot different than scandinavia so were really much more tip towards a very progressive tax code our rate has come down at the top. It is still the vast majority of the taxes like top 20 of earners in our country pay like 90 of the taxes now. Youre very critical of of the way a socialism can view black market and undermine people purchasing power and their opportunity to live within a normalized Economic System. What were most striking examples to you and your research of the imposition of socialism directly fueling that nefarious black market economy. It always occurs theres a price point where people start selling things and problem with price control in general if you set the price too low all of the goods will be gone if you set price too high, the goods rot on the shelf in black market develops and it is one of these things that i think even conservatives screw up sometimes is that, what the just price what is the moral price of bread there isnt a moral price of bread it is where supply and demand cross and open to supply and demand and then the the invisible hand of the marketplace and those wants to strive for more profit have more efficiency and goods out once government sets those prices were in a world of hurt because they dont know and too low or too high never sort of perfect price that market determines. But it leads to horrific problems at least with black market to the balance of the black market but also in several examples we talk about under socialism it cant be tolerated because to you tolerate a little bit of it undermines whole system so tough yo have informants. You have to have families informing on families, about you have to have neighbors informing on neighbors and then it after a while jury trial are are too slow, and juries wont rule so if everybody in our community is buying bread on black market because thats how we feed our family and put people in the jury government wont get a conviction so then you get rid of jury trials so things become more authoritarian because the pot, policies are very unpopular. But people will, you know, like one of the examples in venezuela some selling stuff on street thats on the proos and like government set price and kind of apologizes he said but we actually have stuff and were getting it to people so we have food and medicine and people actually get it. Were sorry were charging more than the official price. But with the official price theres no food or medicine in the store. And thats what happens it just doesnt work. But its all in some of it would be well intentioned we want the price to be 50 cents so everybody can have it but then when they do it well intention that we keep it cheap then theres no bread, and it happens everywhere it happen when is i was but northern p bernie tells us bread lines are good and you sited in book people are waiting in long line for bread thats actually sign of a healthy socialism. Yeah we suggested go down to see what lawns are like in venezuela people are not excited about lawns and really it is still ignores great wealth of our country. I mean our country is so wealthy right now issue we do not have a food problem. We have an a excess of food problem biggest problem we have in health right now not biggest but within of the biggest problems is too much food, and the the poorest people in our society not saying great to be poor. But the the poorest people in our society are better off in the middle class in most societies around world and we have to figure out how to get people excited about being part of that. And theres still is a problem even though like unploit is like 3 . Work force parption people who dont participate in work force is like 38 and some communities its 50 of people not working. So still needs to be this thing and i think it is coupled also with our drug people people arent working. Theyre, you know, theyre divorced from that whole process of getting it out there and more likely to get into drug problem. But we still have that problem even here. But its a problem of plenty, and every day businesses are not finding enough workers, i mean, our biggest problem is cant find enough workers we have a bunch of them who are not participating. You clearly draw from the vast Academic Resources within the liberty movement, the libertarian movement, but i sense reading the book that you are a times frustrated by left willful ignorance on how their own policies impact their comungts and you tell a great story about my colleague aoc and her coffee shop. And going back to her coffee shop in willfulnessing ignorance on how they impact quality of life. Blaming all on cap the capitalism and coffee shop out of business and own or or says we went out of business because minimum wage was too high and rent was too high theres rent control in new york, and theres minimum wage control, and this is probably the biggest problem with the left is you can even if you want to grant them big heart and that they want to do things to help poor people and many of them l do. Its that they arent thinking through to the second order or order or thinking through unintended consequence saying bread 50 cents so good for poor people and six months later find theres no bread and then theres a black market for it and people are selling it at different price and no official bread anymore at 50 cents i think there are unwilling to or theyre demagogues now some are demagogues because one who is pay for it top 1 point of poin tax over 10 million brings in like i think it was 50 billion for her projects to spend are like 60, 70, 80 trillion dollars and so you would think they have to know that. You and i have been except president obama for one thing he gets a lot of press for message discipline throughout the campaign and repeatedly talked about the middle class. As its enduring to the benefit of the middle class pretty walks through a number of circumstances where socialism wipes out the middle class of talk specifically about those folks trying to follow the rules and get by and their opportunity to get ahead. Guest once you get more and more socialism you get less growth and you get a contraction. There is no wealth. The best example is venezuela where they have more oil reserves than anybody in the world more than saudi arabia and yet they dont have food. How did that happen . How can he become so desperate in the marketplace never allows that to happen in the marketplace its growing and there is more Economic Growth its contracting and shriveling up. But its not just one time. You see a time after time after time and going back to the question on whether or not violence is inherent to socialism, hayek had a good way of putting it pretty said that if the ultimate desire of socialism is still in the property and you have to take it from people and people will resist the more you take it from them may be socialism selects the most ruthless person because it takes ruthlessness. When they finally come to your house its like im not going to resist attacks and im not going to shoot the Tax Collector but if they come to my house, who can do that . You can have somebody who is a passive easygoing or gentler socialist. Maybe its inevitable the more socialism you want the more ruthless so thats why you end up with ruthless leaders in and if you want to take someones property you have to be ruthless to take it. Host that shows the cycle of socialism. One question i have is why wont socialist dictators dress up as liberators initially and you go through this moment of liberation government control and then this strong authoritarian violence. How do you break a cycle once you begin incremental socialism . Guest when you hear people talk about the birth of our country and how extraordinary it was so many revolutions in your member of the french revolution revolution didnt have the way that our stupid ours was amazing in the sense that we threw off the yoke of the king and we kept much of our faith traditions and virtues we believed in and be codified a written document and said government cant get bigger than this. Government is bound within the change of the constitution. We dont realize how much of that is the lineage of the english tradition for the revolution we think of as wind a continuation of the glorious revolution england and the magna carta. Theyve been trying to limit the king for hundreds of years. But its along this lineage we were incredibly we got this constitution and George Washington not becoming the king and not serving again. We were lucky in the fact that the written document would restrain the size and scope of the government. Host morality is an odd argument that the left makes and service to socialism. They sell that data may be true but the moral thing to do is to embrace this governing philosophy. Your answer to that is interesting. Talk about how selfish socialism is because it forces you to look inward whereas capitalism requires you to be morally in tune with the needs of others. Talk about that side of it. Guest im not carrying about my desires but i want to be successful but i care about what he wanted in fact i care about everything you want if youre the consumer. Everything is focused towards trying to get you to accept my services or my product but if im a socialist im really not caring too much about popular opinion or pleasing the consumer. In fact when we socialize things Like Health Care we say everybodys going to get it and you will no longer be bankrupt and youll not longer have to worry about your bills. They dont care that they have to wait in line for six months or a year for hip replacement toward their ideological concerns so how does that drive selfishness . It seems like you are making the argument that a country that is more socialist becomes more selfish. Guest i think that is true and its an irony in the way because it professes to be everything is for someone else and in the end its driven by selfishness and also driven by a society and they consume and accumulate power and money and homes and Everything Else based on the cronyism of their system. Host taking apart the scandinavian argument is a big part of the book and its also big part of the debate we have about the kinder, gentler form of socialism but you actually point out the trendlines in scandinavia moving away from socialism, moving away for an over reliance on taxes. What do you think we will see in scandinavia 25 years and im what trends do you see there to answer back to the arguments . Guest the peak of socialism like in sweden was in the 70s and since the 70s theyve been moving more to the right. There are five countries that are scandinavian countries and 45 four out of five are led by his scandinavian government and their big trading nations. They are very much involved with International Trade and worldwide trade and they have these economic indexes are they think heritage does one of different associations to these and they all rank ready high. Its important one you have to know whether its socialist or not because one of the great successes of socialism we need to know whether they are socialist or not. Frankly they are not. People on their own houses and its a massive welfare state is not socialism. Host walk us through the distinction between welfarism in socialism and where does our country fall . Guest i think its a continuum. If capitalism here in socialism as here we are in the middle but we bend toward the capital aside. Where office under towards capitalism not way over and capitalism. We have a great deal of governmental control in governmental involvement. Host you essentially write a plan to reform Social Security in the book so in the spectrum of things as far as is scandinavias socialist or sweden socialist theres a quote in their from von mises and von mises said you know if you want a real quick definition of what is the one thing requires to be capitalist nation and he says having a private stock market in scandinavia has private property. They are capitalism is that big dose of welfarism. Welfarism is paid for through high taxes and you still have private ownership. Its not something im advocating. You buy a car in scandinavia is 100 tax and if you want to buy a 30,000dollar car you have to pay another 30,000 or 200 . It might even be 60,000. When he goes around saying denmark is socialist the Prime Minister responded to no, no we are not socialists mainly because they want to do business with the world and once they do business in the socialist country so denmark is saying no, no we are open for business and ernie says i love your socialism and denmark. Its kind of funny in scandinavia they love the socialist scandinavia and we are not socialists. Host s scandinavia wake into this impact on the middle class as they tried to have a more capitalist system and america may be shifting more the other way. Is there a circumstance where the two would cross . Guest may be. Scandinavia has a lot of success and they have longevity and health in all these things and there are several authors that we look at. If you look at the statistics and try to understand theres amazing statistics so scandinavians live longer than we do and have higher incomes than we do but heres the interesting thing. If you look at scandinavian americans want to live here the scandinavians have migrated here for 100 years or more in their average income is still higher than our average income in our country. The argument is there something about culture and the idea of this work ethic makes a difference and i truly think it is. Something that is harder to teach people that comes from families and Family Structure that comes from community and church and things like that. This is where we have to get away from this craziness of the government schools assayed johnny deserves to have a trophy even though he cant spell. The problem is when we give people selfesteem or give them that they dont teach them the work ethic and the harder you work the more success you get them to give a segment of the population 38 who dont work now who have never really felt the esteem you get from work and i tell people all the time i absolutely believe this that work is not a punishment. Work as a reward and its how you get your selfesteem. You get it through work and there isnt one work thats better than another. You can be a janitor and nurse of doctor a lawyer of physicists and you get it by trying to produce something through your mind your hands or your body. If you dont do that theres a huge hole in your life thats a real big problem for all of us. Host you have a vision for the Republican Party that is far more feeling to racially diverse electorate. You said laws disproportionately affect racial minorities should be subject to repeal and yet the same people who have the kafer socialism are the self aggrandized Racial Justice warriors in the congress and you write about the ability for racism to animate elements of socialism and that socialism may. His sensibility to racism that you wouldnt seem capitalism. Whats the basis for that viewpoint . Under socialism or when you view people collectively you view them as groups and under capitalism everybody as an individual regardless of your skin color or your religion. You are all treated on as individuals based on their merit but when we see it as a collective there black rights white rights and this is still going on. So emotional to people that there really are only individual rights. I dont care who you are or what you do in your home or what your personal beliefs are the law should be the same for everybody. The problem is when you begin to recognize group rights really the law isnt the same for everybody. They have to have a special elevation above the individual and that is sort of what happens that under socialism if everything is to be distributed equally the government has to be on equal because society ends up when things are distributed some get more stuff and so to make it equal when you make it equal the law has to treat people not the same and there is this irony that the law doesnt have equal protection under socialism in order to make us all equal and to keep or adjusting us. The law has to have not equal protection but unequal treatment of people based on their groupings and whether they are in the party are not in a party or poor or rich. When we redistribute we have a lack of justice. So you are very critical of china pretty talk about their failure in their version of Property Rights in the way that change society. What do the lessons from china tell us about chinas future and the u. S. China relationship Going Forward as they embrace these values . I think it take a whole other book rated people of have a lot of hope in the 70s and the opening up and having more for marketplace in china. People were very hopeful and many people predicted with economic liberty we were getting more equal liberty than political liberty. Its kind have gone the opposite way in recent years but i tend to think in the long run the long run may be longer than what we are seeing now the economic liberty makes people more interested in political litter liberty. In china they are interested. In Tiananmen Square there were hundreds if not thousands of people who are just in it and in hong kong you see people that are just not gaining in china and by the hundreds of thousands. We can be disappointed but we still have the Chinese Government thats authoritarian but i think we can be encouraged that there is still resistance. How we get there i dont know. So many people and is sort of separate some of the more liberty minded people. We all see the same problem. I see the problem in venezuela and i see the problem in china and the neoconservatives said will send the military and in conquered china and give them a new government and everything will be great. That unfortunately doesnt always seem to work out. Host you talk about the purges that necessarily flow from socialism. I know there a lot of conservatives deeply concerned about the fact that we lost their debate and the radical left no longer wants to debate the merits of economic principles and instead wanted the platform and destroy those that hold these bodies that do express. Why does socialism accelerate the purging of viewpoint and thought . Guest i think because once you monopolize the economy and the planning you have to monopolize criticism too. Its a consistent theme. They were sicker place under hitler and stalin pol pot and mao. That gets back to the question is that an accident or unfortunately it went in that direction or is it really inherent that they cant handle the debate because ultimately it will lead to dissent and unraveling. Most of the final issue want to address it would not be a rand paul book it was in the curt treat critique of forever wars and represent more troops than anyone else i thank you on behalf of the military families for you do. You write you are criticizing a particular journalist and you say i respect eisenhowers warning that small wars could lead to big words but ive never quite understood how one could be caught lying about an opinion but the fact checker deluded that eisenhower belonged to the work crowd and then you go on to quote eisenhower saying i hate war. Only a soldier who lives it can only as one who is seen as brutality is futility and stupidity. As we tried to guide Foreign Policy and our government away from forever wars what advice would you give those of us who try to have a feel list that view of policy rather than a neocon view. Host if you talk to veterans. We have two big races in my state in the interesting thing when you talk to them some of the most thoughtful are the ones who have served particularly in combat or in if we had the roundtable were with five or six in combat they are not kneejerk that war should go on and on. Most of them are like when you told us to plant a flag and become policemen in nationbuilding just mention the word nationbuilding in those soldiers will recoil. They dont see themselves as policemen and they dont want to be over there policing the streets and building roads and doing all this stuff. Ultimately its a little bit i made the analogy of like welfare but if you give People Welfare they never will step up and take the world in their hands and become selfsufficient in the same way with afghanistan. If you give them 50 billion a year they are never going to step up. Ultimately we have to pretty think there is a chance the military and those retired and those who cant speak out 60 of them say we should end the afghan war. Over 60 of them say the iraq war might not have been in our best interests. We should listen to them. We should also listen to the constitution who wanted to make for difficult. Something is so antiquated we cant really congress is so feckless we cant declare war. My response is the two times we been attacked in the last 70 years in world war ii and pearl harbor the next day they voted and one or two people voted no. The same with 9 11. I think it was a month or so later but it was virtually unanimous. I think congress can come together and people looked at it and said you know what we tend to do better and have Better Outcomes when we declare war and when we are all in altogether and we tend to did not so well on wars that drag on and on and dont have a clear mission. My fatherinlaw was a career military and my brotherinlaw wasnt air force academy and my dad was in the air force could receive this from a personal point of view and i just cant send a Family Member or your Family Member or anybody else without being thoughtful about it and deciding what is in our National Interest to be there. We cant have one vote 19 years ago behind generation after generation. If the definition of perpetual war. Host senator paul thank you for being a unique and inspiring voice and thank you for listing your growing at wife to read this book with you and ensuring anyone who reads this book will never listen argument to another socialist ever again. Guest absolutely. Thank you. Appreciate it. Is about consumers and its about Consumer Finance and how it has changed and its about Consumer ProtectionFinancial Bureau and the importance of the work that engages to protect equal across america. United states and free and open societies will do her thing he can to protect ourselves against the up or to the Chinese Party to subvert free Market Economics and a democratic form of governance. The fact that most people leave prison do a little bit of analysis to see that we could be closing prisons already and jails already if we cut by two weeks in three weeks in four weeks much less years the sentences people are serving. C good morning everyone. I am in joanne myers and id like to thank you all for beginning your morning with us. We are delighted to welcome dr. Ali khan and cspan2 this program. Dr. Kahn will discuss his book the next pandemic is a former