Transcripts For CSPAN2 Michael Arceneaux I Dont Want To Die

Event, on the books of assembly required, decoding 4 billion years of dna. This evenings event will conclude with time for your questions. If you would like to ask the speaker something go to the ask a question but not the bottom of the screen. We will get through as many as time allows. At the bottom of the screen you will see links to purchase your copy of i dont want to die poor. A huge thanks for your generosity during this difficult time. Your purchases and contributions make this series possible and now more than ever, to ensure the future of landmark independent bookstore. Thank you for tuning in and showing up for authors, publishers, indy excelling at our staff at Harvard Bookstores virtual stage. We sincerely appreciate your support now as always. And now i am pleased introduce tonights speakers. Michael arceneaux is author of the bestselling essay collection i cant date jesus, love, sex, family, race, and other reasons i put my faith in beyonce. Rembert browne is a friendly voice editor, presently at new York Magazine and i miss that deal he. His other writings have been published in the New York Times, the ringer, Time Magazine and numerous other publications. Tonight we will be discussing michaels newest book i dont want to die poor, which evokes the experience of how to survive the, quote, specific trauma of financial insecurity. Essays that are as relatable as they are prescient, spry as they are sincere, to form life among americas most pervasive falsehood, the acclaimed author observes how quietly he leads us to our own empathy, forcing us to examine what it means to exist in a world that makes it especially difficult. We are delighted to host this event tonight. Without further do i will turn things over to michael and rembert browne. You wrote a book people love, it was critically acclaimed New York Times bestseller, all that stuff. What was, what went on in your head when you were like lets try to do it again . Is that terrifying . Are you trying to meet expectations . Or were you already kind of like i want to read write books . I would have gotten it done sooner. I had a vision of my life and career. In a lot of ways i went literally in my early 30s. But i knew how that impacted my life and you consume a lot of media you are clear about lifes narrative and you can tell when something isnt going to change. It was the same boring to write versus organization, you know what i mean, traditionally, has a linear way. I didnt know i would get another book deal, very much contingent personally on starting but i knew if i got it out in the rest of the book i wanted to write it would do well enough i could tell this. Another idea, and probably a good book, we will see. Does writing about Something Like Student Loans, something that haunts you and you cant ever get far away from the process of writing about it like equal parts triggering and therapeutic or does it like for me as someone that also has a number, an amount of Student Loans that is so large i have resigned kind of accepted like unless something crazy happens in my life this is just a bill i pay until i am 80 or something, are you dealing with it head on . What was that process like, having to think you are already thinking about Student Loans a lot because they dont disappear but deciding to write about it does it add to the stress . To probably pay them off. I would be not to contend but the fact that it was taken until 80, i never had the option. According to plan, to pay or not. And remove the option. I had no choice but to face it. Talking about money and debts, didnt like any part of writing i would say i learned a lot and i knew everything i needed to, otherwise i wouldnt have put it out there. I knew it would be more revealing than anything because talking about money is far more personal particularly if you didnt grow up with it but also to write, as i outlined to some extent in the book, a lot of things in the last year where i spent most of the time writing it were awful times, i struggled a lot more than i thought i would so it was a nightmare to write it and live it while knowing that honestly, most of us right now, the fragility of the situation, so much is beyond your control or no matter how much you get a little bit ahead if you dont have a Financial Base it could be pulled from under you. I was humiliated writing the book. Mostly i needed to get it done because i got a better advance than the first book. Host something that was super interesting to read that i dont know if i can fully unpack myself is the kind of connection between the decisions of your late teens and early 20s and lingering shame. It is crazy. A lot of people talk about college and it being one of the Big Decisions of your life, a romanticized version. Where you go, that campus determines a lot but the other part is the financial thing that a lot of times, and 18yearold is deciding not always unilaterally but you just dont really know what youre getting yourself into especially if you come from a family where money is not a casual thing. There is not a slush fund. The idea was so interesting to read and will relate to a lot of people who pick this up. The person dealing with a little bit, her folks, like journalism. I didnt realize i was the first to go to college but it wasnt even a choice like you are going, i didnt realize it was a big deal i was going in terms of the other stuff, i didnt go into media, at first, didnt make a lot of money at first. Media as we traditionally put it in planning and i also graduated when that happens in the Great Recession in some ways i didnt completely know but i was 17, and that is enough. I did a lot and realized so much for this, just not going to be there anymore in the 1980s, what started, very much tried to gather, people under 40. That is stuff that nobody could have known. The shame, i didnt want to be another black man letting my mom down and she did not think that. There is also the fact that a larger point in the book, things that are not fair and most are financial when it isnt just you going against the citizens. Host to take a quick pause. Guest that is true friendship. There is a button on the bottom. That is what we are talking about. It is a good title, your book covers fantastic. Guest i love the type cover. The Second Chapter in the book, if you havent read it i will try not to spoil too much but i want to talk about a point in the book, talking about reality tv, a world in which you almost became an on camera talent which is funny because it wasnt referenced in that chapter but there is a point with both almost on camera people. So moving on, that chapter did remind me of something i think so many folks have to deal with which goes against everything you know which is this idea of turning down the wrong money. If you dont come if you are in a position you dont have a lot of money in your account, you know about these loans that float over your head and never disappear and an opportunity shows up that you are at the point where any money is lifechanging money. That idea of still saying no, a particular type of lunacy and delusion in your own long game in your name head with no idea if it will pan out. Talk me through what that process is like because it is something i think about a lot and ive seen people take what was obviously the wrong money but i was jealous of them but i also knew they had about 9 months, kind of what you were talking about when you talked about charades from real housewives of atlanta. Talk about that because it is an important point. I was trying to do a lot of Different Things in that chapter. The niche cultural references. The niche cultural references in that chapter, in my case, in that year i didnt add that part of the book because that would have distracted from things later but there is something that happened beyond my control. It was unfortunate that should all to the trajectory of my career. One media outlet in particular owed me a lot of money so i really didnt need the money but the thing was i really truly believe that all money is good money but it is important for me i have a larger purpose, may be i do. I have nothing in television and if i thought it was a means to a end then sure, but ultimately we review that type of thing but as i write in the book, they are talking about me and in a television meeting it is like, dont know anything, but as i mentioned in the chapter which applies to me because im black too, theres a show on youtube that is actually airing, so many people, there are other shows but not really so as much as i love real housewives it is funny they get money off of how we are created and then on youtube, nothing wrong with being on youtube, im complemented because it is great but that these values, that applies to me too, publishers dont value people like me. That is trying to speak to a lot of that and recognize that i get why people do this, i think it wasnt worth it. She took me up but it wasnt worth it. They would have played me. It wouldnt have been worth it. I will host being in a world of criticism and occasionally taking a healthy hater approach does provide a certain amount of checks and balances when your life changes, things pop up, am i about to do the thing i called courtney for five years. If i feel im about to do that that is pretty much my indicator to say no because i feel coming up in the industry is like you want to do it your way but you are watching people older than you and when youre just a rock 20 something how could you do that and you become 33 and like but okay, i get it but i still cant do it. Lets say you know it would have been crazy. I know in my heart but also in my mouth, people who going to that thinking, i will be Different Community or social, we are special but no one is special. One thing i thought as someone that knows you and someone who is also a black man from the south that cares, lots of cultural references, when you are writing a book, something that you hope to be consumed widely, there is a world in which you tone down some of the references and theres a world in which you are like im not going to handhold older white people who may not know the people im talking about every fifth or sixth line which feels like when you are working with weighted it is in journalism dont know what you are talking about. When you are writing this, are there moments where you are like should i like that my getting too referential or is there a moment when having it be your book you want to double down . I am sorry. Keep going. I never think about that. Nothing wrong with thinking about it but if you do then that is fine if that works for you. My thought about that is i read a bunch of stuff from people of all types, if i dont know what they are talking about igoogle and figure it out. Its not that hard. Im not going to that comes with some consequences like the niche references but im not going to then through a lens youve never been to me. Ultimately to need to sound antagonistic but i dont trust the reader. Plenty of nice older white people in the 70s email me many say i didnt quite completely understand everything, but got the heart of the story or they did what i do, they looked it up and i like i did it now and mightve introduced them to something they wouldnt have thought of like what is this . So now. I dont i refuse to. I dont care about that. Just to say, so often we censure whiteness and when you talk about writing about blackness, you are out how white people react to you which is fine if that is what you write about but thats not the same. Host what would you say, going back and reading your own book, what would you say is the chapter or anecdote or story that you enjoy rereading, not like you enjoyed writing, sometimes isnt real because it is hard stuff. Keep going. What is the story, is there a story in the book that you feel really sums up, the whole thing is about who you are but is there one story where you are like im going to open this book and show you one story here that i think is going to get you into this book, like what is that . Guest the book is actually i think really funny but if i had to pick something for somebody to read i guess may be it would be the chapter when i write to my mom. I cried writing that in a coffee shop in harlem because it was hard to get out. I cried reading it, the audiobook, it was really painful to write, thats the most punishing thing i have ever written, the anger, it really reveals fundamentally what it is like to come from chaos, probably that one. Otherwise maybe the wrapper chapter so somebody can understand. I have been waiting for it. There is something, you may, actually i feel there is a lot that is inspiring to me because i find myself when i think about books or essays or things i want to write that feel superpersonal, as an excuse to not do i run straight to the how will so and so feel about this when it comes out. Why did i just run to the end before the idea the top, i cant do that because so and so might be offended by it and then i step away from it and it is a reminder that just write it, write it and get it out first and then make that decision, like reading about for you how has the process been of writing . I dont want to write all my personal stuff after everyone is dead. I want to write some stuff people are alive and can see and that is difficult. How has that process been for you . You are talking about people who will then read it. Im always cognizant of the fact when writing your story you are writing other peoples story so it is important to be considerate, not only how much of other peoples story you need to include. Sometimes those aspects in the case there briefings like something really truly happened and i talk about. Added to the book in a lot of ways perhaps. It wouldve been the right thing to do. And in fact way it is Something Different but my main goal is talking about anybody like family is to be successful, my parents dont but i mentioned before, honest but respectful. I try to be honest and respectful but there are stories about me that i want to tell, it is if an individual person doesnt feel right then i dont. There are other ways. For someone who feels that writing would be a part of their life for a long time i think it is also you dont have to force everything by holding onto some stuff like figuring out the right time to tell that story it is also helpful. There is something very i think awesome that you said at the end of the book which i think really informs kind of why the book exists, outside of the financial things that come with writing a book and writing a book being your job, you did your job but this idea of learning to forgive yourself which is something might be on the last page, but it is interesting because i think about i feel like my 30s are just making up for the sins of my 20s in terms of financial irresponsibility and those moments where it is a recession and do i go to this party or pay my phone bill, those moments when you are confronted with do i do the thing i need for my mental sanity or do i do the thing for my Financial Stability and that not always being the most responsible decision and you look in the future and if i just had done this or that or this or that things would be different but also learning to be like you know what . That is what you needed to do in that moment, dont beat yourself down about that. It is a really good, amazing thing for someone to read because theres a good chance the person reading that has been themselves down about that. How did you get to that . Do you find you were practicing what you preached or is it still hard to forgive yourself at times . Guest i meant it otherwise. I meant it because i needed to be leave it would come back. One thing i can think jesus has a lot of my work picks up from that, about Holding People accountable but also that starts with self and in the same way i am forgiving myself for things i didnt need to be forgiven for but even if there are things you need to be forgiven for, mistakes that i made, we are harming ourselves with so many things that dont need to be and there are societal pressures we are bound to. There are people who dont even kind of selfish things, it is still your felt that i write about wanting to murder my father who was a violent alcoholic and attacked my mother and a major loans go to colombia where i wanted to go because it was already i cant go there but it was not a compromise, it became the best mistake i could have made, but to have access to a life that i think only existed with stevia ads. If i hadnt done any of that, do i wish i had taken private loans . That really attractive prospect where is that . Probably in virginia being farmed or something. But even if you didnt have that darker past, so many people, all i wanted was to be better than my parents and myself and joined like everybody also watching tv all the time, you do this or that like some white boys but not fundamentally. The bigger question to me is not what i go back but that is what i keep asking because it speaks to what you are saying, what i go back in time and change . Now. What i wish is i shouldnt have had to do that and people like my niece shouldnt go into more depth to be a doctor. That is the bigger point. In this pandemic, i am glad you dont usually hear signs. You can be less selfish. I will stop now because im about to go into another chapter. Host i was about to play the organ. I wanted to read a quote i really appreciated. I did my do diligence, i did underlining. I had a section of a bookshelf, people, my friends in their book, it is a beautiful thing that you shaped in all of your books. But i think there is a quote and it is not related to anything but a very real kind of truth to power moment you can speak to. It is about Permanent Land and it hit differently in this moment we are in right now. A lot of this is very, it hit heavier in a moment of questioning what america is built off of, which is all smoke and mirrors. The quote is a cute corporate term that translates into we are going to work us if you are a fool tire but dont want to pay you for your health insurance. If you get sick take robitussin or whatever it is you for people used to treat yourself because it is not honest. That felt like a quote about america right now. Guest and true to form to america what is happening to me, it finally happened to everybody else and maybe people will change their minds. You cant control how you start, and impact everything but when it was time to get offered a job, the fulltime position, none of them paying enough to have fulltime contract work and they were like right now, some folks that you know now just today, in social media, makes my head explode. No matter how m