Hello everybody and welcome to pnc life, my name is that long and i work in politics and prose read you for joining us our online format, were interviewing our proud tradition of politics and prose alternates , bringing the authors you love and their books to our community. At any time during the event tonight is the green button below to purchase the book on tnts website. Where offering five dollar media now shipping as an incentive especially as our physical stores are close and we need those Online Purchases in order to keep bringing you the programming that we are known for. Tonight you can ask theauthor a question by clicking on ask a question. Downnear the bottom of your screen. And that box you can also read other peoples questions vote forthe ones youd like to get answers to the most. A reminder that an hour in person and the author post an audience member cannot see the screen but we welcome you in these pajamas. Onto the main event. We deeply researched portrait on House Speaker nancy pelosi , Time Magazine awardwinning National Political correspondence draws on exclusive interviews to track pelosis career from her election to congress in 1987 through her legislative accomplishments such as universal healthcare, gays in the military through her complications with trump and managing. Join our conversation with the chief National Correspondent for the New York Times and author of the nfl in dangerous times welcome molly and mark. Thanks everyone. I guess we are on. Ithink its great, i like this. We are here, yes. Im mark,this is molly over on the other side of the screen. We have a lot of people here, the number on the bottom of the screen says 428 people. Most of those are russian box. First of all, thank you president and mrs. Obama and clinton and carter and bush for coming. For all we know there in the audience. Thank you for asking me to do this. Thank you for being here. This is a great book and i will tell you that ive read it the last couple of days. It took me maybe a day and a half and it was pure pleasure to do and it was fun having molly offline. Its both a really pleasurable beach read kind of thing and at the same time it will be one of those historical things where if you want to learn about one of the two or three most consequential people of the century so far politically you will have a document that will tell you everything you need to know about nancy pelosi. And so i have 1 million questions and i know you do too but what im going to do is ask questions for about a half hour and turn it over to you all with questions and theres a way to ask questions that they can figure out orwe can figure out for you. But molly, do you want to Say Something off the top or do you want to jump up with questions . I know mark. Im a huge admirer of your writing and i really appreciate you doing this. But yes, why dont you fire away . Its just do the dialogue. Lets do it. So you have never written a book before and this is your first and i assume you have heard the Horror Stories about what its like to write a book or you heard all these triumphant stories about how great the process is. What was it like . Did you like doing this . Is this something you would recommendto somebody was never done it before . You exceed expectations, not meet expectations . I was totally miserable i would not recommend it. It definitely reminded me of childbirth in the sense that people tell you how excruciating its going to be and you sort of go sure, a lot of pain but you dont internalize exactly how thats going to be until you go through it yourself and go all my god, this is really hard. People have done much harder things. I dont want to exaggerate or feel sorry for myself but its hard to write a book and its hard to write a book about moving targets. I was constantly trying to figure out where i was going and given that its a wonderful characteristic of my time that shes still active in politics and interesting to people but she kept making it difficult to finish the book. When i was in the process of reaching researching and interviewing people, leading up to and during my impeachment was getting underway and we thought that was going to be the big story of the 20 20 election cycle. Now it looks made up. But it was a challenge but definitely very fulfilling. I feel like not only did i learn a lot but also as you know, when you report on politics sort of day in day out, there seems that you sort of develop find in your writing. Theres things start to feel like your understanding in a lot of dimensions about politics so for me i think this is a way to bring a lot of that together. It was a way to bring together years of recording and writing about unrest, women in politics and about the way the political system works and congress works. And if youre a magazine writer you always like more lord and theyre willing to put in themagazine. But its great a300 pages really spell it all out. What made you decide nancy pelosi was the one that would be worthy of however longest of you and mark. Honestly all of the political figures i have, she was the one that felt big enough for a book, big enough that i really could take that deep dive into her as i write about in the book i was assigned to profile her for Time Magazine when i started working there in 2017. First i sort of wasnt thrilled about the assignment i didnt think he was all that interesting frankly it was only once i got in there and started learning about her thinking about her thinking about all of the again, scenes and characteristics of her career that i really started to think there were a lot of layers here on. A lot of really interesting history and residents and just stuff people dont know about her. Stuff i didnt know about her. And i actually had a conversation with David Meredith a few years ago and i was trying to come up with a book to write and i couldnt come up with anything and i said how do you know that, that you had something that was worthy of a book ratherthan like a long article and he said jesus have to be obsessed with it. Thatsthe first subject ive been upset within that way. Merrick is always a great person inspiration and to put you in the right headspace for Something Like that. I would say you mentioned in the text or maybe part of this was i think in the end but also in the text you imply shes not a great interview. Shes not, i mean shes not, she doesnt make fun or she doesnt make it easy. She doesnt need days, she doesnt speak offthecuff that what you shes also a private person. If you, how did you separate how difficult and she cannot she is the crack with the ambitions it takes to actually know that you can actually crack the not enough to write an interesting magazine story or book . Shes really interesting because so much of politics is documentation. And i dont think shell ever beconsidered one of the great political orators of our age. She, thats not to say shes not bright and articulate and thoughtful and she isnt one of these robotic politicians that are terrified of saying the right thing. They just repeat themselves over and over and wont answer any questions but he is someone who engages in public introspection. Hes not going to tell you all the things shes been thinking about herself. You sort of have to figure out and shes not a natural storyteller. Thats part of it to read a lot of compelling political speech fire you actually in stories or are always reeling off these personal and theres a pretty conspicuous absence of that in most of our public speaking so it was really kind of an occasion for me to reflect on the role of communication and perception in politics in studying her, thinking about what is the relationship to how a person is received and what they actually do. And how much of that are they responsible for, how much of that is our society responsible for. How much does it say about the person being perceived. I dont want to get to metadeconstructionists but you know, we hear about this all the time. With the president for example, a lot of the president s defender will say people get mad at his what he does. A lot of hispanics will say no, when he says matters just as much as what you so i dont think there that dysfunction in nancy pelosi but the other thing about her is as a communicator i would say is that i think the thing that you really understand about her is everything with her is about results Read Everything is about what shes going to get out of whatever the interaction is whether its an interview or being on television, getting a seat at a fundraiser area whatever so shes just much more interested in driving a message on and she is in making you like her or making herself feel good for making an audience applauded. Its about what is that im trying to communicate here and how many times do i have to repeat it for you to get the message . Its a great point. A couple days ago i interviewed for the first time aoc, alexandria of. Co cortez who is a bit of a kind a shadow to nancy pelosi in some ways who is very progressive sort of insurgent in the house, that nancy pelosi runs herkind of traditional way. Nancy is as he said to meand her feelings all the time. Is very vulnerable, very open, very lineal that way and i wonder if you ever had any occasion to see nancy pelosi and her vulnerability at all and i wonder if she ever. Im just wondering what it felt like in some ways and what let you see, what its like to be attacked the way she is, targeted the way she is, mischaracterized the way she is . I wouldnt say i got a sense of vulnerability from her. I did essentially feel like she had let her guarddown enough to get a little snippy with me which was nice. I felt like i was getting to her enough for that but she is not an emotive person certainly and i think youre right that theres something generational about that. I think the generation she comes from being born in the 1940s, shes now 80 years old and she comes from a much moreformal era , particularly for women. And i think as you alluded to as well, you cant separate the way she carries herself from how she has been treated. How shes been turned into the bogeyman, this punchingbag, this literally republicans made an ad called attack of the 50 foot pelosi where shes a rampaging giant thats something on people. And so like look, politics may be that, im not saying that is necessarily unfair but i think when youre subject of that kind of onslaught, you do sort of build yourself a suit of armor. Hes even described herself that way i put on a suit of armor and i go into battle punch, you take a punch so she very much sees politics, and he is renowned for her toughness, for her stealing us. For her discipline. And i think that a lot of that comes from just refusing to be vulnerable and in public and refusing to let anyone ever be her sweat. You have any sense that there is anyone in todays or any element of Todays Republican Party that she feels that she could have come kind of good faith feeling with either in the house or in the administration . I mean, she certainly likes some of the republican governors. Shes been dealing with directly a lot of the popular blue state republican governors who been on the frontlines of the Coronavirus Response and i recently profiled the governor of maryland and hes someone whos gotten to know nancy pelosi a little bit i think surprisingly to them both. So i think she is one of these, you hear this a lot from democrats to read i miss the old Republican Party back when republicans were nice and gentle and you but she was literally born into the Democratic Party theres never been any doubt about her partisan loyalty. And she describes her upbringing that night. Work they finally find the perfect place. Its got a guard and its got a swingset and its perfect for their family and as they are about to sign the papers they think literally she turns and says why are you renting out your house and she says we are moving to washington. My husband is accepting a job in the i refuse to live in a house made available by the house of richard nixon. She so its been a democratic partisan and not had a particular party but shes accomplished a lot things throughout her career. I think understanding the way she operates is much more about knowing what your convictions arent having a firm sense of your values and where you come from and understanding where the other side is coming from and trying to find a way to meet somewhere in the middle but satisfied both parties. It isnt like oh we should go have a drink with john boehner. Shes not a politician might bad. Schuman the democratic leader in the senate is more about that area and that affection between human beings and i think thats not the way her policies work. Shes more about counting votes and doing the deal. What is your sense about what she cares about right now with the ongoing stimulus negotiation . It strikes me that democrats are talking all the time about vote by mail, bowed elections protections and making sure whatever happens in november is safe and on the level and so forth. And yet you dont see the leverage that nancy pelosi now has ever come out of this. What is your sense of how the next round of negotiations might go especially given how port and it is to democrats . Its been interesting to watch. She always has on this but its a highwire act for her where you have shes not pulling enough for republicans or republicans calling her an obstructionist or not immediately giving them everything that they want. She has got to balance those competing demands and i think what you see as she recognizes the urgency of this moment as she knows action has to happen fast and thats hard in the congress as gridlocked and darker money as is this one but she also feels the American People what the democrats in charge of the house of representatives for a reason and therefore they deserve a seat at the table so in the early round of peace negotiations there was an attempt to around her and cut her out and not agree to her demands to have what they call formal negotiations between the house and senate with the white house. And she said look i need to be at that table. They need to be part of the discussion and im willing to be reasonable and give up some of my initial wishes but i need to be that table. I think thats what shes trying to do Going Forward as well so some things to reference Something Like fighting for state and local government is republican and Democratic Leaders out there in states and locality are squawking about it now. It would be calm political politically impossible for republicans to deny that. Mitch mcconnell took the position that they were going to bail out the states because they wouldnt be fiscally responsible enough for a once in a century pandemic and i think she realized we are seeing it happened it came politically untenable for republicans because a lot of republicans members are saying we cant say no to this. Do have a sense of her power threatened within the caucus . I think the last time was in 2017. Tim ryan of ohio i guess running against her. He was talking about a. You did in 2016 but not 2018. Lately younger people talk about it. Give us a sense of the going back and forth between a majority in the minority. I mean there is a fair amount of angst about her leadership during those years in the minority which were really thankless in the Democratic Caucus. A lot of House Democrats were very frustrated that they have the same leaders for 13, 15, 17 years and these leaders are now in their upper 70s early 80s and a lot of people thought it was time for a fresh face. A lot of House Democrats thought they should have a turned move up the ladder and into the top leadership that wasnt fair to a lot of members with Great Potential for leadership and also because shes been the subject of so many attacks calling on the republicans hundreds of millions of dollars i think. Turning her into this bogeyman and shes politically toxic particularly for democrats and republicans leading districts. They seem to get the majority and so the feeling was if she wasnt there to be subject to those attacks wed have better politics for the democrats. I think someone else could do a better job in the house. I think someone could do a better job taking these complex pieces of legislation. I was never the appeal in 2016 or so mothers who did not run against her or tried to oust her from the speakership and 201830 really was never about what she sees as her job which is legislating. It was much more about. Do you think of things go well for the democrats in november the democrats keep the house, is it conceivable that they can keep the same Leadership TeamGoing Forward and abide wins they could have more aids in the white house and just the status quo or do you think i guess this is a crystal ball thing but isnt probably the last hurrah in some ways for the speaker . I dont know and i have a firm policy against making predictions. I dont think its been previously reported that in 2018 there was that leadership race where she worked very hard because she could afford to lose less than 10 of the caucus on the house floor in order to be elected speaker so she really had to win over almost everyone in the democratically diverse Democratic Caucus. One of the conditions that she finally accepted to make the final deal to get those votes was she agreed. Theres some sort of but basically it said she can serve no more than two and in the book she said i wasnt really giving anything away because i only plan to stay for one term anyway. Not a lot has changed since then but it reveals at least at the time and this also by the way i learned about the go shooting tactics from nancy pelosi but this is one of her great tactics and debate to pretend if Terrell Police painful to give something up that you are not giving up at all. You didnt mind giving it up or you didnt want in the first place. You see her negotiating posture where she pretends that shes giving up something terribly painful and actually shes not. As im watching this negotiator studying the parent of three young kids. I really think it has. I think a lot of these to go shooting pack takes came from her experience as a mother as someone who had five chil