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With so many joining us if your screen gets choppy, reduce your image quality. Folks were given instructions on how to do so in the chat. If we are interrupted, you may navigate back to the haymarket books page. This will be recorded and shared afterwards on the Youtube Channel as well. We will have time for q a. Post your questions on the video feed wherever you are watching. Comment on the extreme. On twitter, post a reaction directly on the video at the haymarket books, who got up live on twitter. Im retreating right now so people can. Its my pleasure to bring in, i call him the full train of the sports page. I tried to make it catch on as a think because when i used to read scoop on the subway meeting magazine, i always thought his writing was like jazz. Not just the figure behind these terrific articles. Hes a National Writer for espn, is covered issues of race, culture and sports for various publications or 25 euros. Executive editor at the magazine publisher of the agenda and author of this, which i absolutely love and its called the game is knocking, the power of protest and politics of American Sports cant recommend highly enough. His name is scoop. Jackson scoop. I appreciate it. How much love for one another but we are brothers from different mothers. This is big. Appreciate it. Practitioner everybody my h hop. This habit of mine, ive got to show people. This was from another haymarket author, john carlos, 1968 olympics. He gave me this hot, olympic colors and then theres a shadow in there. Artwork of john carlos in the australian peter. Just showing off my hat for everybody. Behind me is ali. Its supposed to be a white backdrop on a white wall but surprised me when it send to me. Him and his legacy and he took the script from that piece and put it in the backdrop of the painting. It is one that im very, it means a lot to be. I want to ask you about mohamed ali and his i can pop first, i want to introduce you to a lot of the people tuning in from around the country in the world who may not necessarily know about you and your background. I find it fascinating. Can you tell folks about how you came up, your parents, there politics and commitment and how that translated into your life . My mother and father were both members of the black panther party. My father more than my mother because he was a newspaper journalist. His the first black newspaper reporter in chicago, one of the first in the country. My mother was a social worker. She was also a public activist. Back in the day, the 60s when i was born and 63, they will both contribute members. I was raised under that mentality and that kind of came with it from everything ive done. Thats kind of been my foundation. The thinking not only that, adding a live in chicago and ive always lived in south shore. My wife and i we both were raised in south shore. Weve been together 26 years, married longer than that together. Weve never left this area. Its worth mohamed was his laments. So i came up, i walked away from that. My mother and father necessarily amy any sort of religion, gnomic growing up was rooted in the ideology, we grew up following the word and was going on not necessarily religiously but also culturally. There roots of black empowerment inflect entrepreneurship and do for yourself or die a slave mentality that exists throughout my career tried to find a way to navigate using that as not necessarily a lead but a balan balance. If that makes any sense at all. It does. The party who reads this book will see it. Its run through with the idea of not just black pride with this idea of black empowerment infusing sports as a platform, antiracist platform. As it should be given the fact that without black labor black bodies, you dont have this multibilliondollar athletic industrial complex. We need to be reminded of that more than we are. My think is a broader, look at it through that. Sometimes we get shifted away because the power of black in america has risen to a level where we are almost forgetting that it powerful. They subtly hold the power. With me looking at the cultural and business side, not just performance side but the business side, always understanding the role race plays in that. I tried to consolidate that into 13 chapters. And you do it which is whats impressive. You say that about appearance of power without actuality of power, it does make me think about some of the National Football league, they are going to have a big three hour special on espn where they will unveil the schedule. Coronavirus and its just a distraction or just on the shoulder and this is going full steam ahead with this Going Forward with games this fall. It makes me think about lack of power of the black athlete in this particular scenario because typical career only lasted a year, contracts are guaranteed and nfl ownership, they need these games played to get billions of dollars in broadcast funds. The athletes themselves are in a position where its like where a lot of American Workers are in a position where its like play or go home, work or go home. No black owners in the nfl. Michael bennet said to me, he and his brother once, to very conscious former nfl players from an word for lease. So i see that in the importance to what you bring to the table to be part of our sports dialogue. The way you view that means you look at that dynamic as far as players, i thought about lack of lack executives. But the players inside. Theres nobody in the nfl to say lets not do this because of this. I wasnt even thinking about the ownership because just from the executive standpoints, somebody using provocative terms, sit down as a equal or partner or a voice or voices to say the commissioner and all the other executives in the Business Model that we call the nfl, we need to at least think about this because this is how it will affect this. Rethink this. Lets not treat this violence as an aside because maybe youve got somebody looking for the side effects. The role we are playing, others making decisions, not just the nfl. The impact nfl has and how people and what they nfl does. Without having executives or anybody of power, to within the nfl think tank to further doesnt discretion up with the agenda on the table so there may be hesitancy moving forward but my mind went straight it didnt go to the athletes. And went straight to the fact that we dont have black executives or executives of color. We all connected to the situation we are in. Wightman to at least make them think about the different. What trusting strikes to the heart of when and how sports are going to reopen because this president put together reopen Sports Committee and his committee, it would be shocking if we havent been living through this for four years but all male sports commissioners for the mens sports and its a group of owners. His buddies, jerry jones, robert, owner of the patriots. It is unbelievable, reopening sports and theres no Health Experts on it. No black people on it, theres no women on it. Given how diverse the field of play is, you have to go consciously make the effort to create something that looks like a country club. Talking about how sports are going to reopen. This is not just specifically executive sports. Looking at the people making decisions of what we do as a nation, as a black person other, this is a bad time. If you look at the governors, the people in the white house, the scientists, if you are a black conspiracy theorist minority who doesnt trust white males, this is a bad time. I this country is in the place that it is in. Before we go on that tangent i got off topic, very specifically we call this from ali to lebron, the road to freedom and wanted to know, and what his influence made to you. I came appear and an affiliation with the black social movement in operation push, to Jesse Jackson back in the day and Martin Luther king, john and tom and all the movement in our society. Ali, cant remember a time ever not having the mans name, his presence and practice being a part of my life at the forefront of our lives, an example of what black pride exemplified and more importantly the way you should feel about yourself, i put in something i always believed in. Mohammed ali is more important than Jackie Robinson and a lot of people couldnt get that but Jackie Robinson did open the door to black individuals to become part of different facets of society, not just sports and all other walks of life but Something Different about someone who makes an entire race feel about themselves. It goes much further than being able to be accepted by someone else. You dont need someones approval to feel a certain way, but ali made us feel a way about ourselves that no other athlete, nobody on that global stage had ever done before. Blocks away from the mob my parents being who they were, black society being what it was, ali had there is no a couple go without it. 64, 63. I dont remember cassius clay a year after i was born. And a small, quote, church down the street became the sensor of a global religion. To answer the question theres never a time in my life, he didnt play a role. You have to be something more than sports and if you have a platform you have to use it for something bigger than sports. Do you see someone like lebron james, do you see lebron being part of that tradition or do you think lebron is part of Something Else, did he build his own thing, where do you see lebron in that continuum . I think lebron knew the context of the culture we are in to reach audiences and to make moves and send messages that wouldnt have worked 50 years ago because of the reason, very strategic about the movement. He does his own thing but also theres a spirit there that had ali not existed, he may have made the move differently. Lebron is very grounded in what ali stood for and without saying a word, he carries it with him but carries it very smartly but at the same time im one of those individuals that listened to lebron and expects him to be the next ali. I didnt look at Michael Jordan expect him to be the next ali. I did look to Serena Williams and say you need to be the next ali. I understand this man is unique in a way we may never see him again. The same way malcolm x was unique in a way we may never see again. Nelson mandela in a way we may never see him again. We could go down the line of individuals and mohammed ali is in the realm of a conversation where we can include him in that and other athletes, they need to be at his level. In order to have a social, political, racial, economic impact. That is not healthy thinking. It is us being minorities. We talked about this the other day. We as black people especially when it comes to sports and moving forward, looking and searching for absolute blackness, almost becomes hardcore. We want all our black heroes, they cant have flaws, they have to do everything. Human beings dont do it that way. Not that ali is false, not like lebron, like stefan curry, serena, Michael Jordan, tiger woods. We could pass laws in black politicians, we could pass laws in black activists, we could pass laws down the line. Our problem is lebron doing everything, why does lebron have to do everything the why does he have to be perfect in order to be important . Let him do anything, as long as hes not doing any harm we cant expect him to do everything. We get caught up in a lot of that, not to be a part of that. Ali did things on such a level, almost think he was flawless and never made any mistakes and was the epitome of absolute blackness and held everybody else to what he did and there may not be another one and it is a problem. Host there is a quote by ken burns, the documentary filmmaker, he said the greeks understood heroes had flaws, a very specific part of our modern culture. And and it recognizing figures part of what makes somebody hero, negotiating a positive negative part of the character. And and it is something you had to. We get out of that but put the burden on somebody else. That separates, makes him special. If we think everybody is going to be like that he is not that special blues not that i want to take away the point of this but talking about entertainers, Michael Jackson everybody else has to be like that. And they do things on a level the average or super too many people cannot do but that separates them from everybody else and be considered greater carrying greatness within them, that is wrong. It doesnt help us. Black individuals, we dont have the luxury of having so many heroes. We need to be careful about bringing those people down. As an impossible level. There is only something to be accepted. I mentioned lebron being in that protection. He sent out a tweet the other day that has gotten tremendous play and publicity where he was speaking about the case of the young man in brunswick, georgia, was hunted down, white former Police Officer and his son in a case that has so many echoes of the Trayvon Martin case, we literally hunted every day, every time we set foot outside the comfort of our homes, cant even go for a damn job, are you kidding me . Now, are you kidding me . Im sorry, rest in paradise as my prayers and blessings sense to you. What does that do . Jaactually notices an injustice like this and amplifies it. What does that do . Doesnt do anything . Again we didnt have twitter 40 years ago. To have an outlet where you could voice how you feel about certain things without having to call a press conference, without having people around you or worrying how your message will be broadcast globally. You can make statements how you feel about some things, lebron has used that masterfully. This is how it feels and there is a lot of people who understand the feeling but dont agree with him having that feeling. The fact that lebron understands that there are there to support other society vo of people, i may be included and other people putting petitions, that is another thing. The fact we had to send out petitions to get these individuals, and they use Twitter Facebook and instagram. Used social media to put everything out there, lebron does validates their feelings. I hope it could play a small role in privilege about white people who are fans of lebron but had the privilege to not care about Ahmad Marbury and of lebron says something if you puncture that privilege it may have to be confronted with the reality of his life and justice in the country. I agree with you but heres why the hope will fall on deaf ears on nonmovement from the white side. He used the word we in this is a component of being black in america, i dont want to say globally but being black in america, White America doesnt understand how they separate us. When lebron used the word we they are like you are not a part of them. You dont get hunted down every day. It is in a different way. When you read his quote the backlash is going to be you are posturing, true to yourself in a part of society you dont exist in anymore and we know there is no separation from black folks, what status of life we live in. Most of White America doesnt understand so what you are saying, that is really hopeful, that the minute to use the word we, he included himself it is not a part of what he is saying. Host lebrons house was vandalized a few years back. Certain parasites of the sports page saying we dont believe that happened. And shake your worldview. That happened to me but lebron is not black. And he is the same believe. Im not black James Simpson a couple other folks, an amazing chapter in the game is not a game about womens sports. I read it with my daughter. It was fantastic, the unrestricted worth of the woman athletes. That speaks about megan rep eno and the way she tried to link with this tradition in a way that is interesting. A way that says i am not leading this, i just want as a gay american i know what it is like not to have my rights respected, making very little on the dollar that soccer players make, i get it and i support Colin Kaepernick and i will try to figure out a space where i can use my platform for Something Like that. Guest two regrets i have. We cannot spend a day together at seattle doing what wound up being a situation with nike, decent, long engaging conversations across the board. I got a deeper insight where he privately feels and respect her more. I have that entire conversation included in the book. I had a conversation with charles barkley, i could not include in the book. The other regret i had, had i not written a book before last summer. I would have included, and made it a 3 public chapter instead of the two pillar chapter. He is a powerhouse. She is not wavering. In my short time i get to spend time with her, doesnt seem like a person that will waiver or can be shifted because like many true, true, authentic people that try to not think about this, doesnt care what the response is. God knows. It is coming from the heart. Host coming from the heart. Guest i would be remiss, where Michael Jordan sits in the discussion we are talking about, sports, politics, activism, and where jordan fits. And what your impressions were. And you know what, i happen to be, it is funny because i