That we move forward and make sure its accessible to all americans across all landscapes. I cant imagine as a member of congress how we would have functioned in this pandemic without the ability to use a variety of conferencing and communication technologies, not just the traditional phone calls we use for our Republican House conferences but with zima and web acts and a whole variety of platforms to move information back and forth and that is just not in politics and just not in the legislative process but listening to my friends in the industry but its been an absolute necessity because many of them have only spent a minimal amount of time in the office in the last 90 days just as i have spent a minimal amount in my office and last 90 days. So, what is the role of congress in advancing that . Guest we are a facilitator. This is something that going back to the telecommunication acts of the 1930s and things that essentially if everyone in the country will have the best technology and if it will be widely available to everyone congress helps facilitate that. There are a number of universal funds that help initially proposed support for telephone lines but now help with broadband and variety of of other creations resources. Some would argue that congress and first the middle carrier had not become so focused in the Space Program we would never have had the tillich mitigation satellites we have nows and some would argue that we might still be in some form of transistor world as a computer chips we are operating in now. We are there through tax policy, the research funding, through a variety of sources to, in my opinion, and a positive way, encourage industry to move forward and science, community in general. Host if there is an infrastructure bill in congress would you support broadband and technology being a part of that info structure built . Guest absolutely. Broadband is one of the great equalizers of our society and whether you give it to an affluent community or an urban area where you have access to greatest amount of bandwidth that technology to move that forward where you live in Rural America where perhaps instead of customers per mile and providers of these technologies have miles between customers we are in challenging air economic areas around the country because of the lack of financial ability that people dont have access to that technology. Its important that we help encourage equalization of that. Everyone needs a chance to advance and a chance to prosper and broadband and the internet and modern medications, it is to us what pencil and tablet was to my greatgrandparents 100 years ago. Host lets bring our guest reporter in from the sea roll call into our conversation. Thank you for having me, peter and congressman at lucas. Thank you for taking a sign to speak. I wonder if i could ask you about the proposal you have that you put out in january asking for an increase in spending on federal r d where among the things that you were called for is the boost in spending on Artificial Intelligence, biotech and quantum computing. Given the pandemic that we are with 100,000 plus is there any that you would change in terms of areas of focus or areas of research or federal spending where it could be applied . Guest i think what we have seen in recent months demonstrates not just to me but the magnitude of the resources that are necessary in the legislation was being put together the focus was how do we stay ahead of our International Competitors and how do we make sure that we are on the front edge and all of these technologies. Now, with the pandemic problems we face there is its been devastating to many of the Research Universities and private Research Foundations and enterprises this literal shutdown for two, three months that weve gone through and how do we restart that . Icom along with members of the committee, congress stations out there in public and private universities across the landscape and what is the stone to Research Projects and graduate students and factorial students . How many people will be available will be due restart and do we divide restart and how much of the research will be lost and are there deadlines on grants and programs that these highly skilled and technical people and bright individuals, are there limits that prevent them from stepping back in and tried to work through all of that. I dont note that we will truly appreciate the damage perhaps for months or maybe years to come for that is all subject to addressing the fund mental issues of the pandemic. On the Science Committee we are very focused on the National Science foundation, cdc and all those entities that develop the skills and the research to create the vaccines until we have a way to address the problem and i vaccinate my cattle for a dozen Different Things and im very sensitive about usda and state Department Working to keep viruses out of this country but until we develop an effective Vaccine Program when does this end . Is this like polio in the 40s and 50s in the United States . That was before me but i listen to my parents and grandparents talk about fear every latesummer in the 40s and 50s about the latest outbreak and now was addressed with the vaccine and i hope we have a vaccine or effective antibody treatment to address covid19 but even then i suspect like the flu it will be with us every year for the rest of human existence. Could i ask you sorry, go ahead. Which explains why the pharmaceutical committees are excited to develop a response. You mention as a farmer a number of vaccines you have to impart to your animals but in that context i want to ask you a little bit about the overall science and scientific culture in the country because in the proposals you talk about how china is racing ahead of the United States or tried to keep up and trying to get ahead of us in a variety of areas and they have increased their r d spending in the last decade or so. It seems in the u. S. There is a lack of scientific culture and a growing Anti Vaccine Movement and you know the revolving party going back to the mid 1990s was advocating for the doctrine of the office of Technology Assessment which was part of congress and im wondering if, you know, how do you place the scientific culture in the country that are antiscience sort of mentality that could potentially be contributing to this slowing of federal expenditure and r d and other areas . Guest the focus and congress and my time is been more from away from science and defense and more away from brickandmortar towards Immediate Gratification and social programs. Thats been driven, not just by republicans but by democrats and things that create a median response back home amongst the constituency. That is part of the problem. I would suggest that part of the problem is also the unintended consequences of the wonderful concept of the internet in this constant information and discussion. Not all of the freeflowing information and discussion is factually accurate. In many ways the internet is more like a gossip chamber then a thoughtful philosophical debate laboratory. Im not sure how we overcome that. In my town we use it and [inaudible] when this is over when it is safe i want to go back to live town Hall Meetings again. You would be surprised the amount of times in recent years i spent discussing something that came up off the internet. Sometimes reasonable and sometimes so outlandish that you have to think about it for a moment before you can answer in a logical fashion. But all these things together are producing us. We know when an effective covid19 vaccine developed and available in mass distribution and who really is willing to take a chance. If you are comfortable enough that by not vaccinating yourself or your loved ones that everyone else in the neighborhood will do that and you will be safe, thats beyond the selfish. That the underlying telling. We had the help this safest Health Regulations in the world and we havent army of trial lawyers waiting to address any flaws and im confident in where we are. I just want to make sure that the scientific community, whether Public Research or private research has the ability, resources and individuals to do that. They brought us to where we are and things like the National ScienceFoundation Just an amazing compliment postworld war ii. Even areas like that apartment of defense there Research Programs are Amazing Things also. Sometimes you have to look down the trail, as we say in Third District of oklahoma, a month or year or a decade or a century or so in order to make these investments. This Immediate Gratification, internet and prioritizing shortterm spending it is all made it harder and that is why when i had the opportunity to became Ranking Member of the Science Committee my primary focus has been to rebuild the bipartisan nature of the committee. The culture i came from from the Agricultural Committee and the culture i would like to see on my other Committee Financial service and we need to get back to where it is a team effort for the common good but right now in congress it doesnt matter who the majority is or minority is but thats hard to accomplish. Everyone wants to go to the corner and scream well, that guarantees you so much time and abilities each night with a news popping head from the right or left but it doesnt develop a thoughtful policy for the longterm future. Host that said, congressman, how would you describe your relationship with the chair of the Science Committee, ernies johnson . Guest i have a wonderful relationship with eb j as i affectionately call her but she is oldschool, calm, focused, rational and willing to work across the line. We have some excitable democrats and republicans on the committee and that is just the nature of every committee. With the chairwoman and i, i think we have a Good Relationship and im comfortable in saying if the roles were reversed someday and we have free elections every two years the entire house is on the ballot, anything can happen and i think i would have just a strong relationship with her if she were my Ranking Member. Well, one of the things you talk about in your proposal is, you know, how china is focused on Artificial Intelligence and promised to become a Global Leader on that particular front. By the end of the decade so now what would it take in the United States to keep pace or stay ahead, is it more money . Attracting more talented people from around the world . Cute is it improving the scientific culture at the basic k12 . What would it take . Guest i think it is a combination of all those things. As a percentage of the money was spent on science is not what it once was. That needs to be addressed. That is through the appropriations process with entities like the National Science foundation. You are entirely correct about seven. Recreating that pipeline for those young engineers and those young mathematicians, those young individuals that come from and making sure that the stem programs that we are focused on the brightest and the greatest possible potential could no matter what part of the country you come from, no matter what kind of background you have if you have the ability to encourage and develop those skills that is an important part of the process. Also, on many of my colleagues from the committee are focused on how you protect those assets once they are achieved. There is much discussion in a variety of committees, in addition to the Science Committee, that are are a part of our number of our competitors efforts around the world and it is not just in developing skills but acquiring as Much Technology as can possibly be acquired through whatever means are available for the rest of us. Property rights matter. Intellectual Property Rights matter. How do we balance those . Is a comprehensive package. Unfortunately for most of my lifetime weve been so successful in this country that the citizen and congress and typically the leadership of many administrations have taken it for granted. That is not the case anymore. The chinese with their 2025 program, they are made in 2025 or thats how they reference it but they are bound and determined that the way to jump ahead of us economically and in every other way is to seize the scientific frontier. If you dont have to create the science from scratch then is costeffective, i suppose but those are all issues we have to deal with. Right now covid19 in the pandemic have the country looking to the scientific enterprise for help and for a response and i think we have to use this opportunity to address the pandemic and use this opportunity to move us forward. I was going to ask one of those trends of the american scientific enterprise i would say easily three decades has been the capacity and the ability to attract and retain some of the best talent from around the world and even today some of the top Artificial Intelligence experts say that stanford are firstgeneration immigrants but now is the current immigration approach somehow running counter to this idea that the United States should continue to be a scientific leader because it seems as if the signals of the United States sending out is basically saying dont come here and is that running counter to, roles like the ones you have of increasing more spending on r d and attracting talent . Guest across the spectrum, it makes things more challenging. I represent 68 american tribes in my district and 39 different American Indian tribes from oklahoma. I always remind my constituents whenever we have a discussion about immigration that unless we are an American Indian you are an immigrant or a son of an immigrant. That is all the rest of us and we need to be respectful of that. Whether it was the indentured english servants and the first farmhands on the east coast or the german ancestors who helped dig those canals or the irish and chinese who helped build the roles railroads. You have to be respectful and openminded towards that. I understand the importance of maintaining the integrity of a country for physical and Health Security but we have to draw the best and brightest possible people. The melting pot concept to me is still valid and any enterprise like science like any form of business and got us where we are today. Where would we have been had it not been for all those scientists who fled europe in the 1930s . This would be a different world and would not be a good world. Would you say that maybe the United States needs to keep the door open for some of the brightest to come from around the world to the american universities and Research Labs . Be to absolutely but we have to have an orderly process governed by the rule of law but most of my are excited not so much about people who might come in scientific fields but the potential ability to add to the United States base of knowledge but the more concerned about unlimited immigration with borders in all directions. Again, rule of law, theres got to be an orderly structure if you just leave the gates open i dont know where we get the extra to lien people we would have. I would not blame them for coming. After all, again im not made native american so im a descendent of people game over in some fashion. Host congressman lucas, you talked about investment and in talking to you and your in rural oklahoma today what kind of telecommunications availability do you have where you are and when would you foresee 5g being in your home . Guest first off, i am serviced by an independent phone company and they do a good job considering how far out in the countryside im. When i do a speed check on my equipment my access is approximately half the speed of my District Office in yukon, oklahoma and thats a percentage of what is available to meet when im at the Nations Capital in dc. I adjust to it and accommodated but clearly is not equitable across the countryside. That is why we have universal broadband bills to bring broadband in traditional landline. I cant give you an optimistic date. I just know that if there is the country will prosper we all need access to this information and will be difficult the farther away we get. Right now on Broadband Development any entities who want access for rural areas if you take careful notice they tend to want to deploy it in the very fringes of the suburbs. The fingers of rural areas. Again, customers per mile versus miles per customer. I understand that and that is why in production bill or a conference of package we still have to continue to push out to the countryside but i promise you the Younger Generation for that matter, anybody i suppose under 30 will not live in an area where they dont have access to modern communication and if they dont have access to broad