My home welcome you to a conversation with historian Colin Galloway, author of an important recent book on George Washington that we will explore across the next hour, for about half hour i will ask questions and then following that you have an opportunity by question your posting online to ask him your questions about George Washington, about native americans 18 century, about what he wrote this book of the i make it to that question first. Center this conversation. You want to say a quick note about some upcoming business were in the near future. On thursday of next week, so week from this thursday may 21 history will join us to talk but his new book, the will of the people. This will be our third of three Michelle Smith lectures excited to have tim joining us virtually from his home. We also have on thursday comes to this thursday the following thursday an exciting new event trivia thursday with the mount vernon folks. We played last week and myself, the president , brad burns, and the head of Historic Preservation collection, happy to say that i want and am excited to try to defend my title this thursday. But, of course, we have daily live streams across the weekdays monday through friday, and begin just this past week we are starting a exclusive series on monday nights. On the past monday, yesterday, that would be, this coming monday will have martha washington, historical interpreter of course joining you and the following monday memorial day Rick Atkinson will be joining us to talk about his work on the American Revolutionary war. But as you can see these are members exclusive events. Numbers only live stream. You have an opportunity to join from around the world, become a member of mount vernon and interact with us in these great events. But now i have a great opportunity to have a conversation with Colin Galloway who comes to us from dartmouth college. I dont think you are currently in your office but he is a professor of history in native american studies there and the author of this important new book the indian world of George Washington. I want to so with a very simple question. You came to mount vernon and worked on this book. I know you worked hard on it a cause years, a culmination in a lot of ways the work youve been doing on 18th century native American History. What you want people to take away from this pairing of George Washington and a story of native americans across many decades of the 18th century . Why did you write this book . Thank you, kevin. Good evening, everybody. Ive actually coming to you from vermont where i live and where it snowed on saturday. Wow. But this probably is not the audience to make this confession do, but i never really was intending to write a book about George Washington. I spend my life studying native American History and one of the things that i and people like me have always struggled with is a question of how do you get American Indians into American History in a meaningful way . It struck me that George Washington was up perfect vehicle to do that. Maybe the most famous person in American History, the founding father. If i could show that native americans matter and life of George Washington and in the nation that he created, i could accomplish some of that. When you look at his presidency it looks, and the latter years, native americans were an important part of his presidency from beginning to end the period theres an important challenge that washington face almost on a daily basis that comes from the ways white americans are enacting with native americans. Right. Sorry, i lost everybody for a moment. Im sorry. I was asking about his presidency. His interaction with native american. Ive been working on a book recently on native american delegations to early American Cities in particular to philadelphia. I kind of came to that out of this book, because in washingtons presidency, indian delegations to philadelphia were kind of commonplace. There were a lot of them. This image that you are seeing is an engraving by William Birch and it shows a delegation of probably the record are the shawnee being given a tour of philadelphia. John adams at one point rights that this is a mid 17 90s, the previous week George Washington had had dinner with four different indian delegations on four different days. As im fond of saying he did that not because he liked having indians over for dinner but because he understood that is infant republic was still weak and the native american nations, despite the hammering that they had taken over the previous generations, was still powerful and still mattered and could still affect the future of the new nation. Fascinating. In fact, the image, its almost like a photograph. Where does it come from, this particular image . William birch engravings of philadelphia. Its published in 1800. We zeroed in on a larger image. Remarkable. So actually i think it made brief reference the fact you came to mount vernon to work on this book in some ways. I should mention that this event is an operative opportunity foi to talk is sponsored by the Ford Motor Company but how long were you able to come in as a Research Fellow . How long did you spend working out of our library . It was broken up because i have another life here in vermont, but the fellowship that i got was the fellowship, i think i was there about but a l four and half but the immense work i did was in the fall of 2016, and i get a pretty its a great opportunity for somebody like me because to get up at 7 00 in the morning, nobody around you, walk over to the library and you can stay there as long as you like it. I have never had an opportunity like that before. Thats wonderful. Lets walk through a bit of the story. When we go back to the earliest days of washingtons life, in fact, he enters the world stage in something called typically the french and indian war. Can you talk to me about washingtons starting point . How does the first interact with native americans . What learning curve is he on as he enters into the world as an adult in the 17 \70{l1}s{l0}\70{l1}s{l0} . One of the things, one of the points and they can the is that washington is always interested in western land, and the western land of course is indian land here although he doesnt usually use that descriptor. So as a young man surveying in the west, hes looking west and also as a virginian he is looking west because of virginia has west claims to the ohio valley and dennis present of course is looking to the west as the leader of an expansive nation. But his first real exposure i think the native american politics and diplomacy and culture and warfare comes in, at the beginning of the french in you need more. In fact, he is often credited with starting the french and indian war because he said, if you like, like a emissary by the governor of virginia to ask the french who were laying claim to the ohio country and building forts there if they would mind leaving because this country belongs to king george. Of course the french reply thanks but no thanks. This country belongs to king louis. In many ways, this is a point i make, it belongs to the indians. But there are different groups of indians in that area. Position there a person with a title like an ambassador to narrow something and this is the guy who gives George Washington his real introduction to the treacherous waters and tribal diplomacy. What are the things washington learned in the earliest that shaped who he became later. I account in the book of the all set to one side, one thing that fascinates me about native American History is wanton diplomacy and how important the strings of beaded marine shells with patterns containing messages and symbols are to the conduct of diplomacy. Washington is a kid, no way he could have fully understood the intricacies, protocols, and language of these but he talks about them and refers to them, we have to wait for the shawnee else in the delaware belt before we can proceed in washington is getting frustrated, given the runaround because he is in a hurry, he has been given the runaround but it is more complicated than that, for his own reasons, severed the alliance with the french. To do that he wants to return to the french the alliance that has been exchanged when the alliance was formed. He wants the shawnee and the delaware to follow suit and to do that as well. However, they are asserting independence from the hegemony. They severed the French Alliance because the french, a kind of display of military power. Washington has the sense of what is going on, that is going on because they are essential, cant make an Alliance Without them or break an Alliance Without them. When going to philadelphia. This is what you have to learn to do business in Indian Country with native american diplomats. In the biographical sense that progression from, and and the lessons that is learning, instead of just coming to terms himself which is normally how biographers write this and seems to be coming terms with interactions with other people, the culmination of that, that is the coming of the revolution. The outcome of the war that comes on with the ongoing thing he has to engage with or limit expansion of white settlement. Talk about the outcome of the 7 years war for everything washington deals with . Washington is involved in some of the major campaigns of the 7 years war at least in the virginia pennsylvania front, he is with edward braddock, at the monongahela and then he is with general john faulk to fix an army with the same objective, of what is now pittsburgh, to succeed and succeeds really without firing a shot because he recognizes the realities of the west and the french may have thought in Indian Company but even for duquesne deepened for their defense upon indian allies outside the walls rather than french firepower, and concentrated diplomacy brings 500 indian people to a treaty where the british essentially exemplify it, once we count the french the old lines will be protected and that is why indians were fighting in the war, with that treaty achieved the shawnee and delaware, Mission Accomplished step aside which gives the british army the green light in fort duquesne, french abandon it, and and north american empire, beyond its wildest dreams, it is helpful for 80 years, get the french out of north america and acquired a huge empire and doesnt know what to do with that but the brits make two major mistakes tied to indians. First thing they do is forget and break the promises they made to indians, that is the result of uprising, they call it the First American war of independence, what american colonists do 12 years later, taking on the British Empire and give the british ability knows so the british thing, how we are going to deal with this, 10,000 men, that is a lot of money. How are we going to pay for that . A bright spot in london comes up with the idea, lets attack the american colleagues. And we will know where that went, gets all the attention. The other piece of it is what you see on screen. The brits understand as long as western settlements are allowed and 3, and wars are expensive and uncertain. How are we going to curtail that. The expansion of euroamerican population, it is going to be inevitable and regulated and we will do that in the center. The American Government will do this in the Nineteenth Century with similar in october of 1763 the British Government offers the royal proclamation, has a number of aspects to it. A fundamental one is say the appalachian mountains, the spine of the appalachian mountains. East of that is british territory. West of that, mississippi, british territory, reserved for indians and the only people who can go about that are traders and agents, the only people who can buy land from indians are the duly authorized agents, cant just have everybody settling there, cheating indians out of line, in london that makes sense, in virginia this is a bombshell. And was fairly standard practice, and british subtlest swarm over the mountains looking for land to buy and rent and those invested in those would make a killing settling and renting the land. One of the he is up to his ears in land investment. This is a major factor in alienating washington from his allegiance to the crowns, he fought and sacrificed and suffered in the french and indian war, really questioning. Think about what washington is thinking about in those moments. The lessons he learned in the french and indian war is the military strategy we often talk about and this other element here coming out of the french and indian war. He would have had a sense of western lands and personal safety and holding onto them in the 1763 proclamation would do that. Most of it is always looking west. When the revolution happened, also a war for American Indians, a war for the lamb but their independence, it is going to be open season on indian land. Any kind of loyalty to king george in the proclamation, trying to protect and limit expansion, who are they trying to detect . American colonists. I want to look at the native american characters you deal with in the book, there is one that is on the cover with washington that is important, the revolution and years to follow. This is seneca. In cayuga and others, the 6 nations tucked in. During the American Revolution, fight as an ally of the british and after the American Revolution when the british house recognized american independence and transferred the same line the french transferred in 1763 and transfer that land in 1783 which leads the americans to then go into Indian Country with take the stand that indians already lost loved ones. They fought with the british on the wrong side, the british transferred their lands to the United States and so now the United States is coming to the indian tribe to give them feasts and they are not only giving feasts, to continue living on a portion of their land but only out of the goodness of their heart that they are doing now . So the record, that treaty, the treaty of fort stand with in 1784. This is a notorious treaty, because the delegates there, confiscation of iroquois land and it takes a lot of flak from that. In 1790 when he visits washington and philadelphia, didnt want to say but from that point on word, he charts a new direction, he is now dealing with the american, advocating a new path toward adopting american civilization, costs causes controversy and divisiveness, that is going on in the wake of the American Revolution. I want to remind everyone, a question for Mister Calloway as well. We talk about the landscape of washington would have seen coming out of the 7 years war. The instant republic, is keeping a watchful eye of what is being made in the 1780s. The turning point in American History to see about the northwest ordinance. I wonder if you could talk about the landscape washington would have seen in the 1780s the Northwest Territory, one of the things i think we have to remember, neither washington or anyone else saw in the continent of north korea as we see it on the map like this, but it would have looked west, he would have seen something divided between rival empires in those areas, powerful Indian Nation with no guarantee that it would turn out the way it did. The northwest ordinance in 1787. You are right that washington doesnt stop thinking about the west because he handed back his military commission it is not president yet. Just as britain in 1763, landed a request, in 1783 and the northwest ordinance is grilling because one of the questions, now our independence, in the western lands settled by american settlers. What happens if american settlers take the same approach with the same attitudes after 1763, we were once children of the mother country where we grew up, became stronger, we no longer need to be governed from 3000 miles away. What would have happened if minnesota, how would you stop this western territory from becoming a series of separate republic or territories that become independent to the United States and the northwest ordinance does cause that by saying it can establish those territories are not permanent in the way british colonies will be permanent. Once they have 5000 people, a system of government models on that. They petition to join the United States on an equal footing and that territorial status is not a permanent situation. Most of the state of the United States come in that way. Here is how we are going to settle it. They are competing and grabbing for lands, bloodshed and carnage. It is going to be regulated on the model where you settle one area that establish townships regularly. In the days when you used to fly over the United States, all laid out in squares. You fly over england, they are following a grit from all this. The problem is roughly six beds get out of the Northwest Territory from the west, the land is indian land. The q