College. We are coming to life or my home office. In atlanta georgia. We been doing a whole series of Educational Programs that fall under abworking for social justice and encouraging the expression of diverse and marginalized voices. All through these virtual formats. We feel very fortunate that we have the privilege of talking to authors all over the country during this time. We feel that its really significant we continue to do the programming we already have scheduled because folks need history as we move through this historic time. Theres really no i can become no better book to help us focus on the movement for black lives were needs right now. If were white and want to contribute to the movement of black lives can do that now. We have the editor here michael long and Pamela Horowitz who is julian bonds lifelong curator. She is having technical difficulties but abmake yourself at home. We will get to some question and answer in the chat but please keep your cell phone on you. You can turn your camera on commuter enough to turn your camera on, were just going to enjoy some time with michael and hopefully get pamela on the line as well. Please welcome michael long, michael is the editor of multiple books and one of my favorites a really important collective work. Besides race man. I want to go ahead and bring it on. If folks will switch their view from gallery view to speak of you will starts talking he will be on speaker view and will take up the screen. These welcome michael long. Its good to be with all of you. Can you hear me okay . You sound great. I scheduled the format to be with pam in dialogue. She said shes not here its a bit of a struggle for me but we can adjust it. And will visit organically as possible. He suggested i begin with a reading from abby the way, i lived in atlanta for several years. Graduated at Emory University and i love the city. I see pam has joined us. Shes here. Pam, its good to see you how do we do this . Is there a split screen . Or the person talking appears on the screen. The person who is speaking appears on the screen. If everybody turns their camera on speaker view as opposed to gallery view, he will switch automatically between speakers. Which is the most fluid way to do it. Great. Everybody got that . Super. Pam, welcome. Its good to have you with us. Thank you. I thought we would begin by talking about the George Floyd Protests. Ive been thinking a lot about julian bond and rusted and doctor king during this. I thought i would start with a reading from julian bonds essay from, oh my goodness, this must be the early 1970s though i dont have the date written from me. Its about violence. Bond is talking about whos violent in america and whos not. Let me start with this and maybe we can go to the protest from here. What page are you on . [inaudible] i will be reading from pages 56¥7. Pam, im right at the end of page 56. We need to discover who is and isnt violent in america. Violence is black children going to school for 12 years and receiving five years of education. Violence is 30 million hundred abviolence is a country where Corporate Accounts more than people. Violence is an economy that plays and i love this phrase, socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. Violence is spending 900 for somebody to be abbut only 7700 a year to abviolence is spending 78 billion to kill and 1200 billion dollars to mccall. Who violence is Richard Nixon and spiro agnew ignoring the expression a piece of millions of americans and the list goes on. What we are doing is expand our understanding of the media violent so it restricted to things like abso it restricted to physical force. Its a very broad term. Its interesting you started with that because obviously when you put this book together you could not have known what we would all be facing now. Even this event was put together we didnt know what we really facing now. For me the book is more resonant than ever although since White Supremacy and Racial Discrimination is in our countrys dna its not surprising that many things julian bond said many years ago resonates today. When you set a broad definition of nonviolence i went to page 230 which is saying we must be careful not to define the ideology and practice of White Supremacy too narrowly. Such as the policemans lipstick or the jobs home and education denied. Its rooted deeply in the logic of our market system and the culturally defined and politically enforced crisis for different units of labor. Theres also in one of the last speeches he gave he talked about we practice dissent then we must practice dissent now. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death and he ends with the present crisis which a favorite of his thats one of my favorites. All that is just today. Historians dont like to answer questions like this but when you think about julian bond and the George Floyd Protests going on now, how do you think he wouldve responded . What was his trajectory of thought . I think he would be delighted. He wouldve been upset at the violence and lawlessness as we all were. It is a detracted from the message of the protest. But he was, black lives matter, mattered while he was still alive. He was very admiring of that movement. He saw himself in black lives matter and so he would see himself and snick in this. I think he would think we are in a moment and partly its a trifecta because we have the pandemic, police killings, and the president. Its making everything worse. Here we are all of that i think is uniting to allow a moment when there might really be some significant change. Thats going back to the readings about violence and riots. It seems to me he wasnt opposed to much principled ground. He clearly problematic because he believed in the inherent dignity of everyone. But when she talked about why its usually about the trouble of the nature of Police Officers invading ones neighborhood or the destruction of property in ones neighborhood would you agree that. Julian . Yes. I think there were two views of violence in at least two and snick and one was that was a tactic and for others it was a philosophy of life and for julian it was definitely the former and not the latter. He supported the people who were engaged in selfdefense back then and there was a case involving the naacp and the leader in North Carolina who was down out of the naacp and julian always opposed that ed now we know, i think they had some inkling at the time but now we know how many people really were armed during the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s and charlie cobb wrote a book this nonviolent thing will get you killed. Julian had a couple experiences during the movement with people who had everybody had guns. Partly it was a self and it was a cultural thing. It was a protective thing. We used to talk about how amazing it was that there was never just a fullscale shootout somewhere and that they were able to maintain a nonviolent movement. And the strength it took to do that. It didnt make them was ait didnt make them weak but it made them a he was in montgomery in 1956 doctor king had the department of bodyguards around him, doctor king had guns in his own. Doctor king wasnt initially it was really interesting to me. I was wondering whether julian ever confessed to carrying a gun in his time. I know he never did and, in fact, it was really funny because whats the name of the black panther guy from the west coast . He came to visit atlanta and julian was such a dry humor he decided he should have a gun because you would expect the black panther would expect julian to have a gun so somehow, i dont know if his brother james found the gun but somewhere there was a gun and it was like this rusted thing that had probably never been shot or at least abthey put that on like the dashboard of the car to impress the black panthers. [laughter] julia never touched a gun. Whats interesting to me is that when he was just beginning in ahe described himself as a pacifist and he actually traced some of that to his roots at the george ebert school in pennsylvania. Thanks to steve from city life books for being with us and helping to arrange this. He initially described himself as a pacifist which i found i think it was because he was a opposed to the war in vietnam that was the war that was happening then and i think as time went on he realized he probably really didnt qualify as a pacifist in the proper sense of the term. When he was called before the draft board and they called his name in the draft board person said i know all about you camille youre one of those sick downers. Then he said camille never get in this mans army. Of course. That was great, he acted as if that was a punishment. But they made him, they classified him as a i thought morally . Yes. He didnt serve in vietnam in the military at all. Throughout the rest of his life would call to i usually support george w. Bush. Maybe when we get back to the beginning. Let me see where we are right now then we can go back to the beginning. Had he continued the trajectory of thought what you think his assessment would be right now in the trump years . I think he would be appalled. The republican field had been at least one day before julian died. We watch that and their work as youll recall many people about 17 or 18 or so when they started. Like most people julian did not take trump seriously and did not think he was a serious option as the party nominee. From day one he would have been abone trump was first elected lots of people said to me, what would julian say and i said from the beginning he would say dont agonize, organize. He would have been geared toward making sure he was a one term president. I dont think any of us, i cant speak for him or even the rest of us but i did not imagine it could be this appalling. Even today to decide the 75yearold in buffalo is ab its like he outdoes himself on a daily basis. In julian and his standard speech he was giving for the last three or four years has aligned about one party is spineless and the other party is shameless. And they still are. It was true then, its true now. He would also be quite disappointed in his own party. He heard this one piece he says in the piece that what is in the back pocket of either party that should have independent politics would be a mistake for them to lose leverage by identifying with the Democratic Party so much with the Republican Party real option at that point. That when he initially ran for office he wasnt sure which party to register with. His father was a republican. That was when there were not just a right but very early in julians career with nixons southern strategy we saw with the party was going and how he wanted to get there. There has really never been an option. Ideally. Julian spoke about this you would have both parties vying for the black vote and then you have more to show for it. That has not been the case in the last at least 50 years. Forgive me everybody for wearing a hat tonight but i did wear the one i chose Jackie Robinson like bond he had the. [inaudible] until black folks who determine which candidate or party best advanced black interest. That sort of the dream or the notion that bond had. Who. [inaudible] he sort of chewed out the candidates in the speech he gave and said that the rage that was expressed following the shooting was good but nobody transferred that or transitioned it or morphed into an organization that had policy goals. He was always about not only protests but moving protests to politics. Can you comment on that. That was a big subject of debate among apeople. Sncc discussed it endlessly as they discussed most things. And argued and there was a lot of discussion and argument about whether julian should run to the legislature because that was not seen as some by being coopted and turning his back on movement. A decision was made that it was a good idea and sick people ran his campaign and they were pretty strategic about how they ran sncc and how they handled his campaign. The whole idea of running for office was that you were going to accomplish something and that you had an agenda. In doing his First Campaign was really what is still the most workable way to get votes and that was to knock on peoples doors and introduce yourself and find out what the people were thinking and what the people wanted. That was his thats what he did and that was his initial platform and i think thats how he approached politics and Political Office his whole political career. Its interesting, by the way, [inaudible] when bond was running for office, he would show up in peoples houses his assistants are people taking along would have cases of cocacola they would go into the backyard and if everything worked out okay they would invite the neighbors and they would go around and say whats wrong with politics and what we like to see accomplished . He would take that and put it into his platform. It was the neighborhood platform, which is a beautiful way to run. Rather than resent your platform to your neighborhoods you go meet your neighbors and develop the platform from there. Lets go back to the beginning. Can you sketch some of the Family History and maybe tie it to why there are other reasons why julian became a civil rights activist. Maybe talk a little bit to his Family History. Before yall Start Talking and going to ask you if you are in between talking and listening if you could new to our microphone so that when you are done speaking your microphone, we are getting a lot of feedback on the line. Sure. Pam, did you get my question . With julians family on both sides was educated so education was seen as the way to a future, the way to health, the way to influence the race. His grandfather was actually a slave, he was born in 1863 and he along the way he was born in kentucky, thats where Maria College is and at some point he learned about berea and julian always told the story about his grandfather and his name was james. The original james bond. Took his tuition is dear and walked across kentucky to the college and the college let him in. He could not read or write, he was 16. It took him many years to graduate gave the valedictory address and went on to get a theology degree. I always like to say if you didnt have a doctorate in the bond family were considered undereducated. They were all educated on the father side his father himself and became graduated from college when he was like 16. Got a doctorate at the university of chicago. Became a noted educator named Horace Mann Bond he researched that still considered groundbreaking on education he wrote his main book was called negro education in alabama and then his mother s side was she herself was a graduate of fisk who at the age of 52 got a degree in Library Science and worked as a librarian until she was 92. I debated whether or not she should retire then and decided she would. It was a very distinguished family when his father became president Lincoln University lincoln was known as the black princeton at the time. His father was the first black president because surely the white people who ran the school didnt think there was any blacks who were good enough to preside over it. Even though it was an all black student body. So you can imagine the politics of that and ducted bond was not withering persona. I know that there were difficulties everyone came, everyone who was anyone including Albert Einstein. He was invited to speak at every College Campus in the United States and spoken very few but he made a point but he made a point to speak at lincoln. Julian met him, well, he was a very small boy but the family lore what julian always told that Albert Einstein said to julian, dont memorize anything thats already written down. It was something julian lived by his whole life. It was a fabulously enriching environment and they sent julian to the schools first segregated in lincoln pennsylvania and there were three kids and they sent them all to private school in julian went to come as you mentioned, George School and pennsylvania and that was a Quaker School where there was one other black student who was day student because he was the son of the cook at school. He spoke fondly of George School always and had many friends but that was not easy for him either. The school told him not to wear anything that said they didnt want town people to know they had a black student. It was a wonderful education for which julian was always grateful. And then he became more houseman, you know what they say about that . You can always tell a more houseman abmorehouse man but you cant tell much. [laughter] its interesting nonviolence at the George School he learned to speak truth to power from the early quaker teachers as he studied with. Its interesting human dignity. How do julian get in atlanta . Because his father left the university. I thought it was a wonderful looking campus and he wanted to go to school there. Men of course he quit college and his one semester short of graduation. You can guess how that was perceived in this family that highly valued education. Also, his father would conside consider wouldve considered himself a race man. They were clearly supportive of the Civil Rights Movement. We were not going to tell julian he could not be a part of it. But im sure they were also appalled. Sue and i think there are concerns about going south and i think that was a 1951 of my memory serves me correctly. And until the 14yearold from chicago was lynched in mississippi, and i met mother decided to publicize the image of his lynched body in jet magazine and other National Publications picked it up. They mustve seen the photo and read of the stories and sought black newspapers and white newspapers. He expressed an trepidation