Question first. I do want to say a quick note about the events we have in the near future. On thursday of next week to week from this thursday may 21 a historian will join us to talk about his book the will of the people and will be our third of three lectures excited to have him joining us virtually from his home and we also have on thursday an exciting new event trivia thursdays with the mt. Vernon folks. We have live feeds with myself and the president and the head of the historical federation. Im happy to say i won in im excited to defend my title. We have daily life streams across the week days monday through friday and the noon hour and beginning just this past week we are starting a Member Exclusive series on monday nights. This past monday, yesterday doug reverend conversations coming monday Martha Washington a historical interpreter and the following monday memorial day brick abington with his work on the American Revolutionary war. These are exclusive event. Youll have an opportunity to join from around the world and become a member of mt. Vernon and interact with us at these great events. Now i have the opportunity to have a conversation with Colin Calloway. I dont think you are currently in or office but hes a professor of native american studies in the author is important book sub six. I want to start with a simple question. You came to mt. Vernon and worked on this book and i know you worked it and its a combination of a lot of ways it works youve been doing on native American History. What he wants people to take away from the pairing of George Washington and native americans across many decades of 18th century . When did your write the book . Thank you kevin and good evening brea dam coming to you from vermont where he lives. Probably this is not the audience make this confession too but i never was intending to write a book about George Washington spent my life studying a native American History and one of the things that i and people like me have always asked is how the get American Indians into American History in a meaningful way . It struck me that George Washington was the cryptic vehicle to do that. May be the most famous person in American History the founding father and if i can show the native americans mother in the life life of George Washington and the nation he created i could accomplish some of that task. And when we look at his presidency in the latter years of his life obviously native americans were an important part of his presidency from beginning to end prepares an important challenge that washington faces almost on a daily basis that comes from the ways that white americans are reacting with native americans. Interacting with native americans. Clearly there is significance to native americans. I was working on a book recently on native american delegations particularly in philadelphia. In washingtons presidency indian delegations in philadelphia were kind of commonplace. You see it in the engravings by william burt and a delegation of iroquois and shawnee being given at torah philadelphia. John adams at one point writes in the mid1790s the previous week George Washington had dinner with poor indian delegations and for different days and he did that not because he liked but because he understood that his republic was still weak and the native american nation despite the hammering said they had taken over the previous generations were still powerful and still mattered and could still affect the future of the new nation. Fascinating. The image is almost like a photograph. Where did this come from this particular image . William birch i believe philadelphia published in 1800. We zeroed in on. Actually i think i made refer friends to the fact he came to mt. Vernon to work on the book. I should mention this event is an opportunity for you and i to talk is sponsored by the ford motor company. How long bre pulled to be a Research Fellow and how long did you work in the library . It was broke and not because i have another life and he vermont but the fellowship, the reeds fellowship which i think i was that in total four and a half was in the fall of 2016. Its a great opportunity for someone like me because i would get up at 7 00 in the morning and theres nobody around and id walk to the library and you can stay there as long as you like. I never had an opportunity like that before. Thats wonderful. Lets walk through bit of the story. For me go back to the earliest days of washingtons life entering the world stage and something to put called the russian indian war can you talk about washingtons starting point . How did the first interact with native americans and what sort of a learning curve was beyond as he enters into the world as an adult in the 17th century . One of the things and wanted when the point in making the book is washington is always interested in the western world and indian land although he doesnt usually use that as a descriptor so is he a man looking west and the virginian is looking west because virginia is a glimpse of the ohio valley to canwest and the leader of an expansive nation. But real exposure to the native american poet six and diplomacy and culture comes at the beginning of the country and hes he is often credited with starting the french indian war. Hes like an emissary by the government of virginia to ask the french who are laying claim to the ohio country and asked if they would mind leaving because the country of belongs to king george. And he says thanks but no thanks this country belongs to king louis and in fact the point that i make isnt belongs to the indians but there are different groups of indians. There are Shawnee Wyandotte etc. And the arrow coy confederacy also and that means a person with a title of an ambassador of a vice region, this is the guy that gives George Washington his real introduction to the kind of treacherous waters of indian politics and tribal diplomacy and ohio valley. What are some of the things that washington learned that he uses later . Theres an account in the book of the skirmish with the french which i was set to one side to one of the things that fascinates me in native American History is what i call once and diplomacy and how important the beaded marine shells arranged in messages and symbols of diplomacy. Washington is a kid and theres no way he could have fully understood the intricacies and the protocols and the language but in his journal he talks about them and he refers to them. He says we have to wait for the shawnee and the delaware before you can perceive in washington is getting frustrated. He gives him the runaround because he is in a hurry. He actually is being given the runaround but its a little more complicated than that. He wants to sever the alliance with the french. To do that he asked to return to the french and the alliance thats being exchanged when the other alliance was formed. Colin there dragging their feet. Not sure that they want to so the alliance especially since the french are putting on this impressive display of the military power rated the war will be fought, will be fought in the backyard. So washington saw a sense of what was going on but is not really sure why. And that is what is going on because our essential. You cannot make an Alliance Without them. You cannot make an Alliance Without them. Kevin some of this their of oneness by the end of the war pretty. Colin will by the time the next presidency, when they were talking about a look at philadelphia. Hes not only having them to dinner, but he doing things with them. This is part of what you have to learn business in Indian Country. With native american diplomats. Kevin . Much of what we know about washington comes in the biographical sense of this progression from a rash and adventuresome man who in later life, they it is fascinating for me to also think about these lessons that he is learning and how to interact with the kinds of people in the 1750s. And is normally how biographers write this pretty also seems to be coming to terms with interactions with other people. Then of course, the culmination of the story of the indian world of George Washington at least our teacher, and you describe part of the challenge that is presented by the outcome of the war made it becomes this on going thing that washington has to engage with. That is how to limit the expansion of White Settlement pretty can you talk a little bit about the outcome of the sevenyear work and how that set this stage that everything washington deals with coming up. C1 yes and of course washington is involved in some of the campaigns. Colin and in pennsylvania before the war shifts north. And when the british army is destroyed, and in 1755. But he is with general john who takes an army with the same objective of the french fought. In step is for it. Pittsburgh. And without firing a shot really because he recognizes the realities of the west. That is that the french may have fought in the Indian Country. But they depend upon indian allies rather than french firepower within the walls. So the proxies and surrogates gets involved in a very complicated diplomacy that brings 500 india people from 13 different nations to a treaty in eastern pennsylvania in 1758 with the british essentially to simplify it, once we take down the french, your land will be saved. That will be protected and that is why the indians were fighting the war. Not because they were pulled to the trench. With the treaty achieved, mission accomplished. The war is over. I step aside which gives the british army the green light. The french abandonment lit up because they know its inevitable. And five years later, after the british have captured montreal. Entrances to britain, the north american empire. Now britain has empire beyond as well as dreams. And what it had hope for for years get the trench out of it north america. And acquire this huge empire. Doesnt really know what to do that. But the brits made too many mistakes. I think both tied to the indians. While the first thing to do, this kind of forget the promises that they have made to the indians. The results and is what often called an uprising. But the First American war of independence was the indians of the great lakes and the ohio valley. We do with the merkin still 12 usually do. Then take on the british empire. Give them a bloodied nose. So the british said okay, are we going to deal with this. And one thing we had to do we realize now, was to give an army in america. 10000 men, that is a lot of money. How are we going to pay for that. So some bright spark in london comes up with the idea, this attack the american goalies because the armies are there. And, they get all of the attention in American History books. The other piece of it is what you see on the screen. The rent understand that is long as western settlement has british subject are allowed are allowed to settle on the indians land. Theres 20 conflict in trespass and bloodshed. And worse are expensive etc. So, how are we going to curtail that. In the british is that the expansion of the american population, it will be inevitable. It has to be regulated. Will do that by trying to control it from the center. The American Government will try to do this in the 19th century. In october of 1763, the British Government offers think called the royal proclamation. And as a number of aspects to it but the junta fundamental one is a basically says the appalachian mountains, the spine of the appalachian mountains, east of that is the british territory or settlement. Mustve that to the mississippi is also british territory but is reserved for indians rated the only people who can go there are traitors and agents and the only people who can buy land from the indians, truly authorized agents of the crown. We can have anybody settling there and cheating the indians out of the land. It in london, that makes sense and in virginia, this is a bombshell. Because many of the people who are household names in time of the Founding Fathers, they were doing what was common practice at the time. And expectations that when the french would be defeated, the indians were not have fresh allies. In a british settlement would swarm over the mountains looking for land to vibrant. And those who are invested in the southwest and lance would make a killing selling. He is up to his peers. In london investments. So this is a major factor in alienating washington. From his allegiance to the ground because his fought sacrificed and suffered in french and indian war as a british subject. Kevin can we go into the revolution think about what washington is thinking about in those moments. Some of the lessons he learned the first anymore, is that the military strategy. All of those things we often talk about previous results of this other element here pretty of coming out of the french indian war. He wouldve had a sense of these western lands. In real personal stake in holding onto them. In the proclamation would undercut thats. Colin absolutely. Washington spent most of his life in east pretty is always looking west. When the revolution happened, it is of course a work for american independence. But its also a war for indian land for the american indian, things were for the land. But is also a war for their independence because they recognized that if the americans win, it will be open season on indian land. The majority of native americans fought the british but they dont do that out of any sort of loyalties to king george. The british because of proclamation, we have some record of trying to protect and limit expansion onto indian land. For the try to protect those that celebrated the merkin colony. You know its going to happen. Kevin want to talk about George Washington but i also want to take an opportunity for the merkin native characters that you have in the book. One of the cover with washington. I think thats an important element for the revolution and of the years to follow. Can you tell us about him. Colin this is seneca, war chief. In the western most nation the six nations. And they become the six nation. And they become united. During the American Revolution, theres a fight against the americans, is not only also british. After the American Revolution and the british half recognized american independence and then transferred the french transfer to the british in 1763 the british transfer that led to the americans in 1783. And that leaves the americans to then going to the country with the argument of taking a stand that the indians have already lost the land. Other indians who fought the british, fought alongside in the british transferred their land to the United States. And so now the United States is coming to the Indian Tribes to give them these are going to allow them to continue living on a portion of their land. But it is only out of the goodness of their hearts that they are doing that. So that treaty, is the treaty in 1784. This is a notorious treaty in the history. Because the delegates agree to the compensation almost. And takes a lot of flak for that rated in 1790 when he visits washington and philadelphia. He said he didnt want to say. But from that point onward, he waited new direction if youd like. In which is now dealing with the americans. And they eventually advocating a new passage and its a very controversial stance to take. And it causes controversy and of his own people but that is what is going on Indian Country in the wake of the American Revolution. Kevin i have a couple of questions i want to ask you but i want to remind everyone the one who is watching out, you are able ask questions as well. And coming in shortly to some of those questions. Theres another one in talking to you ahead of time, we talked about the landscape of washington loosing both coming out of the seven years were in the coming out of the American Revolution and of course he doesnt know in the 1780s they sing going to be leading as you mentioned in the republic. Of course hes keeping a watchful eye on what is being made at this moment in the 1780s. One of the things that again, is often described as important turning point in American History is what to do with these western lands the famous northwest ordinance, but if you could talk just a little bit about this case of washington wouldve seen in the 1780s and again coming in as president and 89. Colin will focus on this little mustard of the territory one of the things that i think it to remember is that neither washington nor anyone else would really seen the north americans as we see it is not on the map like this in our own minds. It will become american. He wouldve looked west and he did look west. And he wouldve seen maybe the comments divided up between rivals. Maybe britain. Powerful indian nations. There is no guarantee theyre going to turn out the way they did. One of the reason does is because of the passage in 1797. And right, washington doesnt stop thinking about the west just because he was military commission pretty is still thinking about it. And just as britain in 1763 has a question of what to do with this public land, the United States has that question under 173. And i think the northwest ordinance is really its because one of the questions was that okay so now we won our independence in regard access to this western land. This would be settled. What happens if the american settlers takes the same approach and attitude is american colonists after 1763. That we want once children of another country. But we grew up with became stronger. We no longer need to