Booktv, television for serious readers. All right. Hello, everybody, and welcome, good evening. Im nell pepper and thank you for joining us virtually tonight on behalf of Harvard Book Store im delighted to introduce this Virtual Event with adam goodman and his book this dedepore taste addition machine. Deportation machine, through virtual eye vend like tonight Harvard Book Store continues to bring authors and their work to our community and our new Digital Community during the challenge times. Every week were hosting events here on the crowdcast page and as always our Event Schedule appears on the website at harvard. Com slicker events and you can signed up for the email newsletter and browse our shelves from home. This evenings discussion will conclude with time for questions. If you have a question for our speakers at any time during the event go to the ask a question button at the bottom of the screen and well get through as many as time allows. 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Adam goodman teached in department of history and the latin american and lat teen nope studiedded premier at the university of imat chicago himself writing on immigration history and policy u. S. And and mexican politics appeared in outlets such as the washington post, the nation and the journal of american history. We will be join in conversation by novelist and journalist Francisco Goldman whose work has won waivereds in awarded in the United States and abroad. Hell be discussion adam residents new book the Deportation Machine which trailses the long and troubling history of the u. S. Governments systemic efforts to terrorist and expel immigrants over the past 140 years. Adam goodman examines hour federal, state and local officials have targeted groups for expulsion from chinese and europeans at the turn of the 20th century to Central Americans and muslims today. Greg praises among the many books trying to make sense over the current moment this one stands out. Goodman describes a machine that for more than a century would go of itself, put in perpetual motion by a caustic combination of racist ideology, vigilant tier imcommunity bureaucratic momentum. This book is essential reading and so now im pleased to turn things over to tonights speakers, the digital podium is yours, adam and francisco. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Adam, lets just jump in and get started. Sounds good. Good to see you. Strange new way. Talking how long ago it seems we were having dinner and hanging out here in mexico city, back in december. A lifetime ago. All right. So, the subject of immigration, is one that obviously became the great hot button issue, something that had so many of us in turmoil and enraged and concerned because of trump and stephen millers immigration policies most of all. Right . We got used to seeing immigration be such a constant sort of front page issue. I think some people were aware of became aware of problems with immigration politics during the barack obama administration. Right . It was probably his greatest failure in some ways. Most people agree. But what about the rest . He did something most people have no idea was there ever a time when immigration u. S. Immigration policy was great . The golden age of u. S. Immigration policy . Have you had that fill is in on the key the history of this republic, how i know this is one of the things your book dives into, what do you want to tell us about the history of immigration in this country . Thank you. Thanks to nell and Harvard Book Store for hosting. When i lived in cambridge i was a member of the store and i hope youll all support them and thanks frank for being here as well. On of the books revelations thats punitive immigration policies did not emerge under the administration of trump nor barack obama nor george w. Bush nor bill clinton for that matter in the 1990s. Im build ago then work of many historians who have documented this history and trying to connect as well to work of social scientists and journalists and writers have the have covered the history in recent decades, but the United States in the last 140 years has had this tension between a nation that welcomes immigrants, theres that mythical imagination of the country as a nation of hisser and the nation that deports immigrants and i trace that long history in the book, and i start the book with that very question. What kind of nation is the United States . If we think about the fact that during the last century, u. S. Officials have deported more people than have been allowed to stay is in country on a permanent basis. I think that raises some really uneasy questions perhaps but important ones for us to grapple with to understand what is happening today as deportation has been in the headlines seemingly nonstop until two months ago. But at the same time, to see how the bureaucratic capitalists and racist imperatives that have driven this machine have changed over time and thats what the book does. It traces the targeting of Different Group of people over near lay century and a half and the different mechanisms officials have relied on to force, coerce and scare people out of the country in addition to exerting control over those individuals who are noncitizens, as well as citizen and permanent residents, family members who remain in the country, and that is what the book is doing. Its a broad history that i think raises profound questions about this countrys identity and how maybe a larger question as well what it means to be american. Whens to the idea of excluding people first take hold . The book starts thats a great question. One thing that i was able to do as i mentioned trace the long history over 140plus years and the history of exclude incarcerate policies, the history of expulsion, through the defendant means of deportation which maybe we can success, that dates back before the founding of the country. If we think of deportation in the modern sense, the contemporary deportation regime fits into a longer history of expulsion and suburb nation of Different Groups of people, often times we think of the history of indian removal. Subordination and the cop confident of native American Land and the history fits into a broader story and longer timeline but the late 19th century i focus and start the story in 1880s and the 1890s when the federal government takes control over immigration. And in part thangs to congressional acts acts and supe Court Decisions which give the federal government the exclusive authority to decide who can enter, who can remain, and then who has to go. So, chinese exclusion. In the 1870s and 1880s stretching until the middle of the 20th century. I trails that history from the 1880s, up until 20192020 essentially but its that time in the late 19th where the story begins. The late 19th century, this discover how important it was to deport was it mainly focused on the west coast with chinese immigrants or were there parallel moms to exclude people that were pursued with equal fur very. The different in the way the chinese were treated in the late 19th, 19th center and look at the large cities like new york and chicago and the worry about radical anarchists from germany and Eastern Europe and other immigrants. How what was different about how it evolved or similar. Important question. We can even start before there of chinese exclusion. Targeting of irish immigrants. The east coast. And the middle of the 19th center, and actually men of the most fervent antichinese activists were. Thes from irish family. The chinese were seen as a threat economically to many irish immigrant lab youres and the u. S. Laborers and also as a racial and cultural threat. The rhetoric here in the newspapers, in many documents and speeches and proclamation about the threats chinese immigrants posed was economic and also racial and cultural and fears and threats we could recognize today that have tracked to other group. You brought up the point of political radicals, eastern southern europeans, the red scare, after during and after world wore 1, re world war i, the russian revolution, prominent cases like emma goldman. Those were crucial and theres an important become coming out called threat of descent. Set goesdissent. One of the interesting findings of my book, the Deportation Machine, is that it although u. S. U u. S. Officials have targeted many people for many Different Reasons throughout u. S. History, many Different Groups, nine out of testify ten deportees is mexican. This is kind of an important revelation, its not surprising that mexicans have been targeted but such a do is proportionate level. Really eyeopening and crucial in understanding how it is that mexicans come to be seen as proto typical illegal ill yeps quoteunquote. One of the most staggering discoveries of your book when you say that, nine out of ten of americas history have been mexicans. I dont think many of us thought that before. Fining out about you book, which makes me wondering withbe get into that suspect the real Hidden History of the book, this book does represent a Hidden History, new way of looking at immigration. What we are expecting to when you decided to you wanted to write beaut bow become of the history of immigration in the United States, what were your expectations what did you expect to find and what was your process and what kind of discoveries did you make and even adventures in research did you have that made you led you to think pout it in a different a different way and carried you through the book . Thats a wonderful question and gets into a little bit more of the story i recount as well. I was interested in learning what our history on deportation. I taught high school before i went to graduate school. On the u. S. Mexico border. Francisco in much earlier it was what it means we can. The foundation of the United States. In the Research Process was a challenge i would say. I cast a wide net in types of trying to tell a broad story over a long period of time. It is not grounded in any one place. Expand the United States as well pass into mexico. Elsewhere. But one of the things that i encountered were several challenges. Kind of roadblocks. To researching the story because number one, on from 1957. The sources in the immigration of National Archives in washington dc. They dry up. After 1957, the source is not available to researchers in part because some were destroyed in part someone not catalogued or so protected by freedom of information act. That presented a challenge. I was hoping to go past 1957. In the other thing that was really difficult was the fact that one of the key findings in the books was that most implications throughout history have been through coercive means. If the administrative expulsion. And they are not documented in the archives. In part, it was on purpose. So u. S. Officials departed tens of millions of people through what were called voluntary departures. There was nothing voluntary about them. I couldve related in two the book that if you threaten somebody with a long sentence of for a couple of decades, chesler they might take a plea deal for three or four years. Also departures are similar and that there are lesser consequences to go along with him compared to formal deportation which might carry a five euro tenure 20 your brand on reentry. Lifetime ban on reentry. And you also might spend indefinite time in jail while youre waiting for your case to be heard. Chances are slim that you will when that case. And instead a lot of people were coerced by officials into leaving the country. Appearing to leave remaining that harrowing process. But in part that was giving up any kind of due process. Anything for the immigration service, the mean that they didnt have to pay for hearings. And others didnt have to pay for the creation of voluminous records. Not having any paper towels part of the plan. And then the question of how you write a history that was designed to leave no paper trail. And i answer became too, was right it really slowly. And through archival work that i did in the United States and mexico. In some kind of wellknown archives and in other places the board also alone. Like institutional archives and hud all of the records in a storage unit along the 110 freeway in los angeles. Art the Mexican GovernmentMigration Institute has archives in an unmarked warehouse in mexico city. Piecing those history together. And then do a lot of statistical number. And speaking to people, is interested in the history of deportation but also in how immigration policies would affect peoples lives. So i wanted to get is to that as well. And speaking to people the u. S. And mexico that it could. Francisco what is that moment like when you get to the research and you realize theres this Hidden History. And its not what the deportation is. In the other kind of deportation is just as important. In devastating effective which is voluntary and coercive. It is not leave a paper trail. To come to that conclusion. What sort of eureka moment. Adam is a good question. It is one that i thought about a lot. A lot of legal scholars and perhaps our government officials and journalists the matter. They really have a narrow definition of what constitutes deportation. And it is the form of deportation which has been through a judge but thats become must less common in recent years. So just pushing against the running arms and what it meant. I kinda met with a lot of resistance at different points. And the same time, i saw this official, the apprehension of people writing they were detaining them in some cases. And forcibly employing them inhumane conditions. Punitive conditions. And this was through supposedly voluntary means. So the archival product records, i saw that the evidence showed me and told me that there was nothing voluntary about this. We cannot accept the government from the definitions. We need to understand what it meant from the evidence. Qualitative and the quantitative sense and that in turn raises crucial questions. But being skeptical and questioning the governments definition of what it means to report someone. And willie steve is like dimension, 85 and 90 percent of people had been deported through these other means, voluntary archers. And through self deportation campaigns. Meant to scare people out of the country. He supposedly on their own. I think we understand deportation, and in response to some kind of course or fear campaigns, by the federal written perhaps by ordinary citizens and some accommodation of their upgraded that we can get a much better sense of deportation is reach as well as the fact that this whole system is built on Discretionary Authority. Individual officers, or low level officers that are part of an institution, that can only be described over time as being racist and anti mexican. And we certainly seen recently the black lives Matters Movement in the street across the country and beyond. The problems with giving extraordinary Discretionary Authority through lowlevel officials. Whether they are police officers, on the city streets or immigration agents. That is kinda built into the system. Francisco if i dont understand what you mean by self deportation is a policy. Give me an example. Living in the 1950s or 60s or 70s read and mexican in the southwest. How do i experience things that will be make me self deported who decides who should be something i will have to deal with how does that happen. Adam cell deportation, its difficult to calculate or quantify. How many people left in response to this tactic. Its crucial that we recognize it as part of the Deportation Machine. What is look like. It could be threats of violence. So the late 19th century, the theres an extraordinarily apocalyptic violence. In taking people across the u. S. West mostly. And another places, from the earliest campaigns that a document in the book were from that period of time. In which people used economic boycotts. The chinese businesses, threats and intimidation to get people to hire chinese laborers and also the first violence. The ever present threat of violence to encourage people to leave. And ultimately, if you lead by such and such a date. Will then we will come in for throughout. More recently we have seen scare tactics through the media read through twitter. Through other means through Public Officials to increase people to leave the room. Supposedly for their own benefit and to avoid apprehension. And ive also seen really punitive laws of the local and state level. To show me your papers in arizona. About a decade ago. So its just pure profiling. So the idea behind those initiatives were a